De, Why Am I Being Punished For My Playstyle? Traps In Grineer/corpus Tilesets

[EChondo]

With the recent inclusion and removal of the "Broken Light" traps, and then the addition of the Arc traps, it has come to my attention that DE wishes to make all Tenno slow or force a playstyle into having no choice.

 

I love completing missions quickly, but I only do it when it is with my friends or when I'm in solo. When I'm in a public game, I take my time and help out my teammates because no one can communicate with each other since little-to-none use the in-game mic feature.

 

When I rush, I can use a wide assortment of frames including; Loki, Rhino/Prime, Ash, Nova, Zephyr and even Nyx and Saryn. However, with these new traps, you're either forced to go slow and seek out these annoyances or you're required to equip Rhino Prime with his Vanguard helmet and a maxed rush just to be able to run through the map and the traps with ease with Iron Skin, otherwise you face death.

 

These traps are encouraging lack of choice. I love choice, if you look back with my recent threads and posts, you would see that most of the time my feedback always incorporates choice. It's my choice to rush. It's my choice to use Loki, but since you've added these traps, you've taken away my choice, you are punishing me because of how I want to play.

 

Why are you doing this? Why am I being punished? Why is everyone being forced to go slow or use Rhino? There isn't any incentive to explore the tilesets since there is no reward to it whatsoever, except some small, odd amount, of credits or alloy plate/nano spores. When I first started playing 11 months ago, I explored every nook and cranny, but I stopped quickly because there was no reason too, and that hasn't changed, at all.

 

 DE, remove the traps. Just flat out remove them. I'm all for adding content and fun to the game, but these traps aren't fun. They're annoyances. If you disagree, then by all means, disregard this thread. If you want the traps, then go to one of the many threads that want them as is or alternatives for them. If you wish to stay and want to start a healthy debate, by all means.

 

Thank you for taking time out of your day to read my wall of text.

[liavalenth]

I do not think this is an anti-rushing mechanic. If anything their DoT makes exploring a bigger problem because they deal more damage if you stay near them and you run accross more of them while exploring.

 

Now I understand they do see through invisibility (unconfirmed), which must be a bug and should be reported to the bug forum. Further they automatically attack anything within LoS so running without paying attention could get you killed.

 

Now I say they need to have a charge time of 1-3 seconds and be less common, but I do not agree with removing them completely (because I do not believe that is going to happen, whatever the community says).

Edited March 24, 2014 by liavalenth

[VKhaun]

Once properly tweaked, I do think this will be a penalty to people moving faster. It's not right now, obviously.

 

But additions that have a greater effect on rushers aren't necessarily about about getting rid of rushing altogether. I think they would be more about putting the burden back onto the rusher to be able to do what they do with skill, preparation and knowledge instead of putting the burden on the rest of the team to keep up with any random asshat who puts on Quick Rest and Fury.

 

Frankly I find it hilarious to see people calling the lights and traps anti-rusher. It's very fun to see who's really a "Rusher" and enjoys new challenges and a higher skill cap, and separate them from the rest of the pack who are just lazy, inconsiderate gamers using the most OP strategy to skip content, avoid challenge and get rewards faster who don't want their 'playstyle' nerfed.

Edited March 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[StuffedTurkey007]

 

Now I understand they do see through invisibility (unconfirmed), which must be a bug and should be reported to the bug forum. Further they automatically attack anything within LoS so running without paying attention could get you killed.

 

I doubt they are activated by normal cameras. They are probably motion censored or automatically zap anything that isn't wearing Grineer armor. Invisibility wouldn't work unless they're activated by normal cameras, which is unlikely.

[Mainabi]

I'm all on for traps, yet I'm a rusher, I prefer avoidable traps though, something you can dodge.

 

DE says they're making a fast paced, fluid game, yet with the whole trap thing, speednerfing, stamina system, they're not rly encouraging going slow, they're rather forcing everyone to go slow.

I'm not against Slowpokes, but I'm also not against Rushers. diversity, different playstyles should be promoted. 

Having the same meta isn't fun. 

 

but right now I'm pretty disappointed... atm all I can see is: let's make the game slower, force and punish instead of encourage, and with that rhino, bruisers are the new meta yay! oh wait where have I seen that already?

[EChondo]

It's not about getting rid of rushing, it's about putting the burden onto the rusher to be able to do what they do with skill, preparation and knowledge instead of putting the burden on the rest of the team to keep up with any random asshat who puts on Quick Rest and Fury.

Skill, preparation and knowledge of traps that we can't even see? I've ran into my fair share of hidden Arc traps so far. I'm not asking for them to be bright pink and out in the open, but to be at least counterable.

 

Like liavalenth said with a delay/charge time.

[VKhaun]

Skill, preparation and knowledge of traps that we can't even see? 

 

Yes.

 

Skill = shoot them quickly.

Preparation = Tank / Electric resist / Shield Recharge Rate

Knowledge = Knowing POSSIBLE spawn locations.

 

Again, I don't think they're anti-rusher right now and they're still working on the code for positioning them. I consider them new and unfinished. Hard to talk in specifics.

Edited March 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[Brimir]

I think it might be an ego thing, personally.

 

DE created this game, poured love and effort into it, and they don't want players "bypassing" all of it by rushing. They want you to experience their creation. That is why they are so vehemently anti-rushing.

 

I'm not sure I can fully blame them for that. I can even understand it, and empathize.

 

However, they need to realize that they have created a game that rewards this playstyle the most. The fix is not to band-aid things like the Arc Traps into the game, but looking into changing the "Complete objective & Go to Extraction"-meta into something else. You can't fault the player for taking the path of least resistance.

[VKhaun]

DE ... they are so vehemently anti-rushing.

 

That is, literally, the silliest thing anyone has ever typed on these boards. That's more ridiculous than the Booben thread. Killerkarpfen WEEPS that they'll never surpass the absurdity of that phrase, no matter how large a roller they post a picture of.

 

If DE was vehemently anti-rushing Zorren Copter would have been dead long ago, laser barrier workarounds would have been all fixed long ago, new tiles would be radically different, friendship doors would be more common, lockouts would be less considerate... Every single system in this entire game could shut down rushing if they wanted to. Every. Single. System. could stop rushers and doesn't. Mods 2.0 has more mods for stamina and knockdown prevention/recover than for HP, armor and shields combined. Tons of abilities can be cast in-air. Scorpions can't hit moving targets for squat. The list is so complete it'd be like describing the entire game, to cite all examples.

 

DE has been grossly over-considerate to the rusher demographic to the point that it's ruined PUG's (especially assassinate PUGs) and alerts for new players and anyone on a slow frame with no stamina mods for almost a year straight, and this is my informed opinion as someone who is NOT anti-rusher. I can only imagine what the old school explorer faction people would say, if any of them are even still playing or coming to the boards.

Edited March 24, 2014 by VKhaun

[RustyNaps]

Rushing kinda destroys this game, I mean, why should DE even work on tile sets if you just blur past all of them?

 

Hek I've gotten so tired of rushing I'm strictly solo now. I just can't stand all the natural talent M Priming Nova's with their Boltor Primes, Mareloks and Jat Kitags killing all the fun before I can even get to experience. And I don't wan't to join that crowd because I like variety and use all the forgotten weapons.

 

Warframes going to keep going down this Dark imbalanced rushed rabbit hole until they decide to rework how weapons function which seems won't be their priority for a very long time.

 

Oh well, Gonna solo T3 def with my Nyx and REGULAR Boltor because, you know, theres more weapons/warframes to choose from than just Nova/Rhino and Soma/Boltor Prime.

 

Hek why not just call Warframe Boltorprimeframe or Novaframe.

[Guest]

I play Solo. Sometimes I rush, sometimes I explore. Traps are nothing to me either way, not even on a paper-thin Loki. It takes half a second to blow a camera, a door sensor, or a zapper, it takes five seconds max to hack a panel.

 

 why should DE even work on tile sets if you just blur past all of them?

 

Why not let people play the way they want?

[Sev7n]

You can still rush you just need to be modded and prepared for the traps ahead. They are not keeping you from playing the game the way you want to play they are are just not catering to your every single needs/wants on how you want to play.

[Khalus]

I feel if they had a charge up time before discharge, that would less controversial. Thus allowing you to dodge them, bypass them or locate them before being zapped. Them continuing to drop resources or loot would also add some incentive to vape them rather than 100% ignore them. 

[Starbridge]

Build your frame to resist the damage type then or stack on health and shields.  I like the traps.  Yeah, I know... now your just going to complain about having to use mods that you dont want to use.  Well tough luck man.  You want to do speed runs then you should just deal with the traps and run past them.  They hardly do any damage anyway.

 

Build to your environment, not min-maxing.

[Veridantus]

I don't think it's "being punished for your playstyle",
The fact is, when you rush, you're increasing the risk of getting caught in such hazards more than when you play it slow & carefully.
There are traps everywhere & you can still rush when you want, you just have to be careful when rushing instead of just running around & going through all damaging traps, getting shot at by enemies, etc. 
You can still rush, it just takes more "skill" now.

[Hyunsai]

Please stop talking about "skill" or "careful" with Arc Traps. Those things are often in such dead angles you can't see them before they hit you.

 

It's just a random annoying occurrence in its current implementation. Energy door traps are well thought (as are the traps of the Void), Arc traps are just stupidly designed.

[Veridantus]

Please stop talking about "skill" or "careful" with Arc Traps. Those things are often in such dead angles you can't see them before they hit you.

 

It's just a random annoying occurrence in its current implementation. Energy door traps are well thought (as are the traps of the Void), Arc traps are just stupidly designed.

So, you just want mindless rushing? Run > Kill enemies > run > extract?

Sounds like you don't like a challenge.

They don't even do that much damage anymore & you can rush past them without even loosing 100p of your shield.

[Brimir]

If DE was vehemently anti-rushing Zorren Copter would have been dead long ago

 

Were you around for the short-lived Stamina 2.0 changes I wonder...?

 

Also, the reason as to why Zoren Coptering hasn't been "fixed" is because can't be fixed. The only "fix" would be to stop slide attacks from propelling you forward - and that would make slide attacks useless for their intended purpose.

 

Unless Melee 2.0 removes slide attacks entirely, you'll never see it gone.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Brimir

[Mainabi]

Were you around for the short-lived Stamina 2.0 changes I wonder...?

 

Also, the reason as to why Zoren Coptering hasn't been "fixed" is because can't be fixed. The only "fix" would be to stop slide attacks from propelling you forward - and that would make slide attacks useless for their intended purpose.

 

Unless Melee 2.0 removes slide attacks entirely, you'll never see it gone.

actually they've "fixxed"  dual zorens coptering, reducing the speed and distance you can get with it, and also giving it a delay/cooldown which stopped you basically from using it.

but there was an uproar, the players who didn't complain and were happy about that mechanism went full rage. the arc traps aren't that bad -yet-

[Brimir]

I would've been in total agreement with the people who hated that change: not because it would've restricted my rushing, but it would've put a serious hamper on my melee escapades. Having cooldown on my slide attack would've been horrible because it is the main method of getting within melee range of ranged enemies.

 

As I said, the problem is that Zoren Coptering is directly tied to melee,

[achromos]

I think it might be an ego thing, personally.

 

DE created this game, poured love and effort into it, and they don't want players "bypassing" all of it by rushing. They want you to experience their creation. That is why they are so vehemently anti-rushing.

 

I'm not sure I can fully blame them for that. I can even understand it, and empathize.

 

However, they need to realize that they have created a game that rewards this playstyle the most. The fix is not to band-aid things like the Arc Traps into the game, but looking into changing the "Complete objective & Go to Extraction"-meta into something else. You can't fault the player for taking the path of least resistance.

 

The same thing happened With FFXIV when I used to play that game.  In a instance a tank would rush and pull EVERY mob he could while staying alive and pulling the mobs into a corner while the healer revived him and we could just skip to the boss.  The developer answered by adding, at least in one area 'required' mobs to kill to get items to help unlock the pathway.

 

Maybe they could add mobs that drop keycards?  I already don't like the idea of relying on the spawning of mobs but thats one thing, maybe multiple doors that require you to hack them? or something, it makes sense that people would lock their base down a little rather than leaving it wide open to assault.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Sibarian

[RustyNaps]

The same thing happened With FFXIV when I used to play that game.  In a instance a tank would rush and pull EVERY mob he could while staying alive and pulling the mobs into a corner while the healer revived him and we could just skip to the boss.  The developer answered by adding, at least in one area 'required' mobs to kill to get items to help unlock the pathway.

 

Maybe they could add mobs that drop keycards?  I already don't like the idea of relying on the spawning of mobs but thats one thing, maybe multiple doors that require you to hack them? or something, it makes sense that people would lock their base down a little rather than leaving it wide open to assault.

Actually a keycard system like Doom had could really make missions longer, having to find the keys to open said door to advance could get rid of the point A to B ultra fast sanic racing to extraction.

 

AND people could still rush! Their fingers would just get tired... MUHAHAHAHA!

[Hyunsai]

So, you just want mindless rushing? Run > Kill enemies > run > extract?

Sounds like you don't like a challenge.

They don't even do that much damage anymore & you can rush past them without even loosing 100p of your shield.

 

You need to improve your reading before putting such nonsense in my mouth.

 

In fact, what you're saying does'nt make much sense either as you admit those traps are all but challenging and don't stop mindless rushing at all. And you want to keep them instead of scraping them for something better ?

 

In case you missed that part of my post :

 

 Energy door traps are well thought (as are the traps of the Void), Arc traps are just stupidly designed.

 

I don't know how I can be more clear.

[achromos]

You need to improve your reading before putting such nonsense in my mouth.

 

In fact, what you're saying does'nt make much sense either as you admit those traps are all but challenging and don't stop mindless rushing at all. And you want to keep them instead of scraping them for something better ?

 

In case you missed that part of my post :

 

 

I don't know how I can be more clear.

 

Personally as long as we get SOMETHING better, I don't mind.  But please lets not make the game all sugar coated and nice, I don't like facerolling things and a MAJORITY of people that play warframe that responded to the Dev questionnaire even stated they wanted Challenge too... I mean not that the lights are much of a challenge but they are at least... something.

[Rakosta_Kai]

<snip>

 

DE has been grossly over-considerate to the rusher demographic to the point that it's ruined PUG's (especially assassinate PUGs) and alerts for new players and anyone on a slow frame with no stamina mods for almost a year straight, and this is my informed opinion as someone who is NOT anti-rusher. I can only imagine what the old school explorer faction people would say, if any of them are even still playing or coming to the boards.

That's me!

I love the traps personally. Love the modifications they have done to them as the initial version could be blinding at times. Love the loot they drop when you kill them.

Is it anti-rusher?  Not even a little bit... I still see rushers in the bulk of Pugs I enter.

I, likewise, am not seeing people die from this version as I did with the Broken Lights.

 

To the OP:

If the arc traps are bothering rushers and they won't take the time to kill them, they should probably just keep moving. It's not going to get off the wall and follow them. Exercising choice would be to stop and kill them. That ain't gonna happen though and we both know it.

Count your blessings... It could be a flood room that activates only for the first person that steps into it and has a Hobbled state activate along with an Energy and Shield disruption effect put in place inside that room. Doors would only unlock from consoles immediately outside the room by the members that the Rusher ran off and left.

 

 

   In my opinion, it's a change that adds variety and that's appreciated. The previous version was a little cheap and a lot annoying. People complained (and rightly so) so they got fixed. Now some players are smelling "blood in the water" and are working to get traps removed altogether.