achromos Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 What about each time you bleed out, you will need to pay 10p to revive. Otherwise, teammates cannot revive you. If your bleed out timer runs out before your teammates can get to you, you either pay 50p to self revive or get booted out of the mission with no rewards. Good? Hmmm, the sarcasm is strong with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 What about each time you bleed out, you will need to pay 10p to revive. Otherwise, teammates cannot revive you. If your bleed out timer runs out before your teammates can get to you, you either pay 50p to self revive or get booted out of the mission with no rewards. Good? P2S. Pay 2 Survive. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) @Sibarian And while that would be potentially a HUGE debuff to people with only 2 or 3 frames (and if they are completely free players only 2 frames and thats it) the penalties you are suggesting wouldn't even touch anyone that has 10+ frames as waiting 24 hours before playing a frame again wouldn't be an issue because they have 9 to 21 other frames that they could play as. That's the biggest problem with this suggestion IMO: You punish the free players by potentially leaving their 2 to 3 frames nearly unusable for a large period of time (essentially telling them to not play till its over) while giving the people who can buy a lot of slots and have all of the frames barely a slap in the wrist. Especially considering that I have 2 Embers, 2 Mags, 2 Rhinos and 2 Excaliburs so I essentially have 8 revives for each of those frames before they become unusable. And you want to know something else your idea especially encourages? Leeching. Say I manage to get down to 0/4 revives. Why not just jump into a match with 3 friends(or even a pug) and then let them kill a boss while I sit at the entrance (I sure am not going to even try to catch up to the others with essentially all of the dragon keys except extinguished attached to me for 6 hours) and they kill the boss. End of mission and I get my 6 hour penalty reduced to 3 hours just for leeching. And if you have to be there at the end of mission to get the reduction then you just play with friends who slowly carry you through the entire mission simply so that you can actually get back to playing the game. And if you bring up: "Well you need X frames before this affects you" here is the counter: What about all of the people complaining that since they paid for the slots they get punished when they die but all of the free people dont? How is it fair to them that they can get massive stacking penalties on their frames when someone who doesn't spend a dime in WF not get any penalties? And if you make it so that it affects everyone: Well now the reverse is true. The people who cant pay into WF had better not do any high wave defense/high count survival or they will get a flat debuff across the board while the people who have all 18 frames can sit there and play a lot more regardless if they die more simply because they happen to have more slots than a free player does. Edited March 24, 2014 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babellon Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 ok,, fine, you're right, death penalty all the way.... When you die, no revive, no simple mission fail.. When you die, you either pay 50p (guys idea up there ) or, you lose all progress you've made. get a new starter frame issued, lose all your ranks, resources, weapons, mods, and have to start over from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 This is ridiculous. I would not stand for this implemented in the game. It is a punishing factor that wouldn't make any sense. There doesn't need to be an even greater punishment, Warframe isn't a punishing enough game? Irreversibility is a mere one of these things in Warframe that punishes players. We do not need this in addition to the already hard-to-understand game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Not going to lie. Only scanned and did not read the OP. Read peoples posts so that gave me a good idea of what was being said. A repair system isn't great and maybe I don't want to Forma one of my favourite frames because it's fine the way it is? You lose out as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxolotl Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 more "HAHAHA NO" gifs and pictures please. We can make a megathread !!! srsly, i shouldnt have added that "repair system" example. Or hid it in a spoiler.. Anyway back to topic.. Nice idea, Sibarian - that could work - and i fully agree on that bleedout cap per mission. There has to be any limit on reviving players. Again, the main idea behind the "buff" of death/bleedout punishment is excitement and to force players to take care of their favourite frames. Atm, a death in warframe has no meaning and has near to zero consequences. ->no consequesces -> no regrets -> no mistake done -> no lesson learned. @tsuki Frame =/= Frame - u claim the ppl who spend so much plat/time in getting so many frames wouldnt care if they cant use their Nova/Rhino/Necros for - T3 Def/surv ? + You keep saying every idea is gamebreaking or smth like "You punish the free players by potentially leaving their 2 to 3 frames nearly unusable for a large period of time." noone said anything about gamebraking numbers, or about the timeframe the damaged frames wont be accessible. This is just brainstorming / getting opinions. You`ve claimed yours, now leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) @Sibarian And while that would be potentially a HUGE debuff to people with only 2 or 3 frames (and if they are completely free players only 2 frames and thats it) the penalties you are suggesting wouldn't even touch anyone that has 10+ frames as waiting 24 hours before playing a frame again wouldn't be an issue because they have 9 to 17 other frames that they could play as. That's the biggest problem with this suggestion IMO: You punish the free players by potentially leaving their 2 to 3 frames nearly unusable for a large period of time (essentially telling them to not play till its over) while giving the people who can buy a lot of slots and have all of the frames barely a slap in the wrist. Especially considering that I have 2 Embers, 2 Mags, 2 Rhinos and 2 Excaliburs so I essentially have 8 revives for each of those frames before they become unusable. And you want to know something else your idea especially encourages? Leeching. Say I manage to get down to 0/4 revives. Why not just jump into a match with 3 friends(or even a pug) and then let them kill a boss while I sit at the entrance (I sure am not going to even try to catch up to the others with essentially a hobbled key attached to me for 6 hours) and they kill the boss. End of mission and I get my 6 hour penalty reduced to 3 hours just for leeching. And if you have to be there at the end of mission to get the reduction then you just play with friends who slowly carry you through the entire mission simply so that you can actually get back to playing the game. And if you bring up: "Well you need X frames before this affects you" here is the counter: What about all of the people complaining that since they paid for the slots they get punished when they die but all of the free people dont? How is it fair to them that they can get massive stacking penalties on their frames when someone who doesn't spend a dime in WF not get any penalties? And if you make it so that it affects everyone: Well now the reverse is true. The people who cant pay into WF had better not do any high wave defense/high count survival or they will get a flat debuff across the board while the people who have all 18 frames can sit there and play a lot more regardless if they die more simply because they happen to have more slots than a free player does. Hmm, maybe refine the whole boss thing to where the person 'HAS' to have at least taken a shot or two, not a lot of damage but a small portion of it so that if someone is helping him/her then he/she wont lose the credit if they go down again and/or don't do enough damage? As far as comparing a person that has 10+ frames to one who just has starter frames I realize that there is a bit of disparity but thats why I added the ability to pay credits to instantly pull yourself back up without having to wait. True, again... people who already are at the high level planets can easily get that payment once or twice, how about refining the costs. Note this is just a addendum to the original idea, any information displayed 'now' overwrites the previous posts but otherwise please consider everything apart of one idea] While at: 3/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 4/4 revive] Rank 1: 3k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 1.5k Rank 2: 6k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 3k Rank 3: 7k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 3.5k Rank 4: 8k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 4k Rank 5: 9k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 4.5k Rank 6: 10k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 5k Rank 7: 11k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 5.5k Rank 8: 12k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 6k Rank 9: 13k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 6.5k Rank 10+: 14k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 7k While at: 2/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 3/4 revive] Rank 1: 6k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 3k Rank 2: 7k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 3.5k Rank 3: 8k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 4k Rank 4: 9k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 4.5k Rank 5: 11k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 5.5k Rank 6: 13k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 6.5k Rank 7: 15k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 7.5k Rank 8: 16k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 8k Rank 9: 17k Credits :: If you kill a boss:8.5k Rank 10+: 20k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 10k While at: 1/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 2/4 revive] Rank 1: 9k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 4.5k Rank 2: 12k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 6k Rank 3: 15k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 7.5k Rank 4: 20k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 10k Rank 5: 22k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 11k Rank 6: 24k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 12k Rank 7: 25k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 12.5k Rank 8: 26k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 13k Rank 9: 28k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 14k Rank 10+: 30k Credits :: If you kill a boss: 15k While at: 0/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 1/4 revive] Edit: Also if you kill a boss and reduce the time by half, then the credit cost is also reduced by half Rank 1: 15k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 7.5k Rank 2: 19k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 9.5k Rank 3: 21k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 10.5k Rank 4: 23k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 11.5k Rank 5: 25k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 12.5k Rank 6: 28k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 14k Rank 7: 30k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 15k Rank 8: 33k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 16.5k Rank 9: 34k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 17k Rank 10+: 35k Credits:: If you kill a boss: 17.5k As far as for people who have multiple frames, I think that this system will encourage people to use other frames more often rather than sticking to their favorites 'if' they end up dying on them a lot and help them want to fix their mistakes a bit more. So just put this in addition to my previous [original idea, this is just a addendum to the credit cost idea] and as far as for people who are new and/or do not have many frames I think the credit cost adjustment fixes that. The less frames you have [at least leveled up to 30] the lower the cost technically. A Rank one essentially will have to pay: 33k or 16.5k if they kill a boss four times to fully get back to 4/4 from 0/4 or wait the usual 24 hours or pay plat A Rank five essentially will have to pay: 67k or 33.5k if they kill a boss four times to fully get back to 4/4 from 0/4 or wait the usual 24 hours or pay plat A Rank Ten or above essentially will have to pay: 99k or 49.5k if they kill a boss four times to fully get back to 4/4 from 0/4 or wait the usual 24 hours or pay plat Edited March 24, 2014 by Sibarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have said it before and I will say it again. Warframe is punishing enough already. You don't have to add this into a game that's hard enough already. What about those nasty T3 Survival 50 minute + enemies? That can fuckin' one hit you? This is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I have said it before and I will say it again. Warframe is punishing enough already. You don't have to add this into a game that's hard enough already. What about those nasty T3 Survival 50 minute + enemies? That can fuckin' one hit you? This is ridiculous. True, most enemies can one shot you at that point. Well, Frosts snowglobe of safty and Trinity blessing will become even more valuable. Edited March 24, 2014 by Sibarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackram Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Right OP, because what the game needs is more unfun grind and pointless time/resource sinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainabi Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 No, I don't want this game to be a Dark Soul-ish game... dark soul is fine because everything done there is avoidable, dodgeable you can outsmart an enemy, here? you've got stupid hitscan S#&$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 True, most enemies can one shot you at that point. Well, Frosts snowglobe of safty and Trinity blessing will become even more valuable. You are really just ridiculous in this....Why not just go play T4 and leave the rest of the game alone? If you're looking for difficulty take an unranked Grakata on Tethys. You don't have to break the rest of the game for it. Right OP, because what the game needs is more unfun grind and pointless time/resource sinks. ^This. This is why i am against this. It's already demanding enough, we don't need another aspect to make it more challenging/grind heavy. I feel like I have a full-time job just farming materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)friedricetheman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Hmm, maybe refine the whole boss thing to where the person 'HAS' to have at least taken a shot or to, not alot of damage but a small portion of it so that if someone is helping him/her then he/she wont lose the credit if they go down again and/or don't do enough damage? As far as comparing a person that has 10+ frames to one who just has starter frames I realize that there is a bit of disparity but thats why I added the ability to pay Platinums to instantly pull yourself back up without having to wait. True, again... people who already are at the high level planets can easily get that payment once or twice, how about refining the costs. While at: 3/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 4/4 revive] Rank 1: 3k Platinums Rank 2: 6k Platinums Rank 3: 7k Platinums Rank 4: 8k Platinums Rank 5: 9k Platinums Rank 6: 10k Platinums Rank 7: 11k Platinums Rank 8: 12k Platinums Rank 9: 13k Platinums Rank 10+: 14k Platinums While at: 2/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 3/4 revive] Rank 1: 6k Platinums Rank 2: 7k Platinums Rank 3: 8k Platinums Rank 4: 9k Platinums Rank 5: 11k Platinums Rank 6: 13k Platinums Rank 7: 15k Platinums Rank 8: 16k Platinums Rank 9: 17k Platinums Rank 10+: 20k Platinums While at: 1/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 2/4 revive] Rank 1: 9k Platinums Rank 2: 12k Platinums Rank 3: 15k Platinums Rank 4: 20k Platinums Rank 5: 22k Platinums Rank 6: 24k Platinums Rank 7: 25k Platinums Rank 8: 26k Platinums Rank 9: 28k Platinums Rank 10+: 30k Platinums While at: 0/4 revives [Note: The costs are to return to the previous level of revive status, so paying this would return you to 1/4 revive] Rank 1: 15k Platinums Rank 2: 19k Platinums Rank 3: 21k Platinums Rank 4: 23k Platinums Rank 5: 25k Platinums Rank 6: 28k Platinums Rank 7: 30k Platinums Rank 8: 33k Platinums Rank 9: 34k Platinums Rank 10+: 35k Platinums ........ Fixed it for you.Ps - your idea is dumber than giving guns to a kid. A MR1 dude trying to get past Luo interception on Earth will go bankrupt in a day.. Edited March 24, 2014 by (PS4)friedricetheman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LuXx1200 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Maybe add a gear item that allows you to repair on the go? For people who hate the repair idea, it should be made into a certain gamemode onl, not unlike nightmare mode. Edited March 25, 2014 by (PS4)LuXx1200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) @Sunfox069 Sorry if I have an opinion that differs from you. Must be a shock or something.... And Going off of what you said in the OP of a repair system is what I have been replying to and why it would be unfair to free players vs someone who has all 22 frames. Which you keep on conviently ignoring.... Also the G3 already do with the the Grustrag Bolt. And guess what happens? A high rank player joins your group of MR0-2 players all in new excaliburs and fresh to the game. G3 appear and kill everyone so everyone gets bolted. Now everyone deals 1/2 damage to grineer until they can get rare materials that start dropping after Earth. Guess what happens if this happens to a new player with one frame that is just finishing Mercury? Most rage-quit because now they are looking at a nearly impossible challenge: Go through Venus then all of Earth and then get the rare materials the bolt requires so that they can actually do something against the Grineer(which control most of the system). Good luck for a new player having a hope of being able to do that... They already have a hard enough time with Eurasia at full strength. They stand no chance as new players with just the G3 bolt. They really dont need another penalty on top of that... I'm just pointing out issues with your idea and other peoples suggestions. Dont like? Just ignore then... @Sibarian Having credits that scale based off of rank would do quite a bit at making it easier for low rank free players that hit the difficulty wall that is currently Eurasia. I just think that if anything like this is to be implemented (which I disagree that it ever should but besides the point ATM) then there needs to be something that scales it based off of MR/Number of Frames/Something else that makes it fair for a low rank free player with only one or two frames while not being something completely ignorable by a paying player that MR15 with all frames. And that is something that is shown by the G3's lose penalty when applied to MR10+ players and MR1 newbs. The MR10+ can remove it instantly. The MR1 either has to find someone to carry them past Earth so that they can get the mats needed or just create a new account and hope it doesn't happen again. The other thing I'm wondering about is the massive jump you have in penalties from 1/4 to 0/4. While it could be justifiable in that if you are out of revives you shouldn't be playing that frame I think that those numbers could also be scaled off of the number of frames you have. The more frames you have the worse the penalty is (up to your original numbers) when you're sitting at 0/4 revives on a frame. EDIT: Maybe make the penalty scaling of all ranks go off of the number of frames you have to a certain limit? Edited March 24, 2014 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DietEbolaCola Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 OP craves punishment system. OP uses Valkyr profile image. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 This entire concept is ridiculous. I doubt DE will ever even think about implementing something this horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 No, I don't want this game to be a Dark Soul-ish game... THIS ! I don't get anyone that plays that game, I want to play for fun, dying all the time =/= fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)friedricetheman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 OP craves punishment system. OP uses Valkyr profile image. Seems legit. Hence OP doesn't really contribute to any survival missions he plays on. He basically go invul and pretends to kill stuff with melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelorx Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The penalty to a failed mission is losing out on bonus exp, the mods, the mission clear reward, and your pride. I get motivated enough to clear a mission as it already is. Dying already sucks. If we made it suck more, it would just put a damper on more things for little to no reason, especially considering that me dying is mostly due to things I didn't even see coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ-7809 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 OP doesn't understand Warframe. OP is one of those people that thinks the game is too easy but never fights lvl 25+ enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 No to OP, this kind of thing makes me quit games. I want to play what I want to play, I don't want to be forced to play something else that I don't want to period. Nor do I want to spend my time and in game resources just to play the game. Plus if there is that much of a penalty of dying, who's going to go back to rescue the guy that's bleeding out and swarmed by enemies if there is such a great risk to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansJurgen Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) *** No, its not a "this game is to easy" whine thread *** I feel there should be more punishment if you die or fail a mission - since the current system allows players to get revived unlimited and with no penalty. There is no downside of dying at a mission - you will even get the rewards / resources you collected -> theres no meaning of death in warframe whatsoever :( How about making death more punishing for us ? The first thing that comes to my mind is some kind of a Repair system: - Frames get damaged on death / bleedout and need repairs Repairs are time / parts / resource related. DE could add everything from a passive timer, which prevents you from using that frame immedeatly again, over a debuff that will stack, to a penalty that parts of your frame get damaged on death / bleedout, and you need resources or parts to repair it. Note: not the actual part blueprints -> noone would play Vauban anymore :S Overall, just anything that makes dying annoying / want to be avoided. - Forma and repair penalties Players forma their most beloved weapons and frames. By making a forma´d frame more resistant to the penalties above, they will enjoy to play their favourite frames even more + their effort and time spend on that frame will have an actual impact on this system. - Lotus is watching you Players with conditions like MR lower than 6 or only one frame will not have to deal with damaged frames/parts. This is, of course, to protect new players game experience and their frames. However this is just one example for making death / bleedout more meaningful in Warframe. Please share your opinion / ideas on how to improve the current death mechanic - or why you like the current state of it. /discuss So what you are saying is to have everything gimped if you bleed or die, or wait and potentially pay platinum to ungimp it. How about no? Solo play, the penalty for dying in a mission is losing all the loot and credits, and having to start over. Coop play, you miss out on XP and any potential drops. In the case of the G3 or the Harvester, there are enough consequences as it is. If I wanted to play Darksouls or Eve online for the sheer grind element, I would play those games, not Warframe. Those games are not generic third person, hallway shooters, dungeon crawlers and every little bit of grind is worth it. But then, they are boring, and I do not have time or patience for them. I do not play games for the Asian market from where you inspired your ideas, either. I go to work for a living, not watch pixel ninjas in space all day to care about my pixel gear. If I cannot play with my stuff because reasons, I'll play a different game. Edited March 24, 2014 by HansJurgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) EDIT: Maybe make the penalty scaling of all ranks go off of the number of frames you have to a certain limit? True, yes and yes. I... put a bit more thought into it and it definitely would NOT be fair for a fresh player to have the same penalty as someone who should know what they are doing [i.E: Rank 10+] so I could see that being a lot better, scaling off of the number of frames the person has 'and' in addition to the rank scaling that I brought up in another post, Just as a rough example ill go through and punch the numbers out again but maybe... just as an example lets take the 'highest' punishing set 0/4. So, here is what it looks like for debuffs at 0/4 If a person has 8+ frames: Max Health: -50% Max Shields: -50% Max Armor: -50% Max Energy: -75% Max Stamina: -66% Run Speed: -66% If a person has 4-7 frames Max Health: -25% Max Shields: -25% Max Armor: -25% Max Energy: -50% Max Stamina: -33% Run Speed: -33% If a person has 1-3 frames Max Health: -15% Max Shields: -15% Max Armor: -15% Max Energy: -25% Max Stamina: -15% Run Speed: -15% Something more like that, right? Maybe it can be cut down to a more refined stage but I highly doubt DE would ever take this suggestion and the game 'IS' fine as is, this is more or less just something I am playing with in my mind. Edited March 24, 2014 by Sibarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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