Pvp Mode - A New Way To Balance Things

[Mavericksfd]

After a lengthy dicussion on all things Warframe during our beer brawl Friday I have come up with an idea which would make balancing ALL warframes very easy for the devs.  Warframes should have two modes PvE and PvP.

 

In PvE mode all things are as they are now with a focus on PvE and can be balanced as such by the devs as time progresses.

 

In PvP mode Warframes abilities could be changed to put a focus on PvP and be balanced as such.

 

This creates a perfect harmony in keeping PvE seperated from PvP and allows everyone to get the best of both worlds.  This would mean players would get a huge amount of new content in regards to PvP and warframes which are considered too OP for PvP becasue of their current massive PvE abilities could have those abilities altered strictly for PvP.  Below is one example.  Imagine this applied to all abilities to bring them to a balance for PvP.  This is strictly concept and would require a huge amount of balancing, however is creates a perfect synergy between PvE and PvP.

 

Nova PvE Mode - Molecular Prime

 

• Nova destabilizes the molecular structure of all enemies within 15 / 18 / 22 / 25 meters for 60 seconds. Affected enemies move and attack 50% slower, take 200% damage from all sources, and detonate upon death dealing 150 / 300 / 500 / 800
   Blast
  Damage to enemies within 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters.
  • Duration is not affected by Power Duration.
• Each explosion can cause the subsequent death and detonation of nearby enemies, resulting in a chain reaction.
• Nova is not invincible while casting, but she can resist knockdowns.
• Can be cast in the air.
• Gives Conclave rating of 50 / 50 / 50 / 50.

Nova PvP Mode - Molecular Prime

 

• Nova destabilizes the molecular structure of a single enemy within 15 / 18 / 22 / 25 meters for 60 seconds. Affected enemy's move and attack 50% slower, take 200% damage from all sources, and detonate upon death dealing 150 / 300 / 500 / 800
   Blast
  Damage to enemies within 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters.
  • Duration is not affected by Power Duration.
• Each explosion can cause the subsequent death of nearby enemies.
• Nova is not invincible while casting, but she can resist knockdowns.
• Can be cast in the air.
• Gives Conclave rating of 50 / 50 / 50 / 50.

Abilities were copied and pasted from the wiki.  Source - http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Nova/Abilities

 

Added for clarification:

 

Guys I am just talking about a concept here so everyone gets the best of both worlds.  I am not talking about weapons AT ALL in regards to the topic.  This is just for balacing ALL warframes to be viable for PvP long term.  This allows two modes adn each can be balanced accordingly if they need changes to be balanced for either PvP or PvE.  Step back and think about it for a moment.  If this happened to every frame and every ability out there they could easily be balanced based on the inequality in each respective mode.  This allows for the focus to remain on PvE as it is now without changing an ability so much BECAUSE of PvP that it in turn affects PvE play.  The same concept could be applied to weapons to balance them for PvP as well.  I honestly don't want something done which will drasticly affect current PvE play which DE has been focused on.  This concept would permanently fix ALL of it.  The introduction of two modes of combat based on PvE or PvP will give players the versatility to play whatever they want and devs the ability to easily balance any ability or weapon based on which mode needs adjusted.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Mavericksfd

[Stormandreas]

so in otherwords... do nothing to the powers?

[Angius]

How about everybody start to understand, that Warframe is a damn PvE game, and PvP balancing is not even near the bottom of the to-do list?

[Hixlysss]

so in otherwords... do nothing to the powers?

While stat wise it's the same, but what is suggested it to make Nova's molecular prime a single target in PvP. Neat idea, but would be...difficult to code into the game.

 

What I would suggest is having PvP versions of the powers. Flag the ones that are currently out as "unable to take into conclave matches" and make more...PvP balanced versions of those powers for your warframe to equip.

[.Talia.]

How about everybody start to understand, that Warframe is a damn PvE game, and PvP balancing is not even near the bottom of the to-do list?

 

How about some tunneled vision elitists start to understand that there are some players that like PvP?

 

PvP is completely optional, there is no reward and no leaderboards, if you don't like you can completely ignore it, and let others who like it have fun.

Edited March 25, 2014 by RexSol

[Ayoshi]

Here's my 2c on how to balance PvBleh

 

Make everyone use a unranked Excal without skills, a Braton, a Lato and a Skana.

[RoboDoge]

Here's my 2c on how to balance PvBleh

 

Make everyone use a unranked Excal without skills, a Braton, a Lato and a Skana.

Instead only 3 unranked weapons, add more of them. Braton, Lato, Skana, Gorgon, Penta, Akvasto, Miter, Synapse, Stug, Vectis, Ogris. Let the Quake games begin.

[Mastikator2]

How about everybody start to understand, that Warframe is a damn PvE game, and PvP balancing is not even near the bottom of the to-do list?

The DE added Dojo duels and then added Conclaves. This game is a PvP game.

 

But I'd say that tweaking the conclave rating of things is sufficient for balancing PvP. Balance the game for PvE and then adjust the conclave ratings for PvP and all will be well.

[Sixty5]

PvP is not a massive focus in Warframe, in fact it was something that DE were reluctant to bring in in the first place. However the structure already exists in-game for weapons and powers to have different stats based on what is being played.

 

However, because of how damage vs the ability to take damage in this game scales, it matters very little. Really if you want PvP balance all you really have to do is set a damage debuff dependent on Conclave rating starting at 0 for the lowest possible, and 80-90% at the highest.

 

Regardless, I don't think we will see any real changes to PvP until U14 or so.

[Ayoshi]

Instead only 3 unranked weapons, add more of them. Braton, Lato, Skana, Gorgon, Penta, Akvasto, Miter, Synapse, Stug, Vectis, Ogris. Let the Quake games begin.

 

Adding more weapons would remove the "balance"  

 

But I think the frame/weapons could be voted before the match.

[RoboDoge]

Adding more weapons would remove the "balance"  

 

But I think the frame/weapons could be voted before the match.

Or simply being able to set rules for the session. Option bar or something like that.

[low1991]

-cut-

sorry to shoot and burn down your ideas, but to me this is the wrong way to go about.

 

1) PvP & PvE weapons should each have their own separate Stats:as in.

Damage

Clip

Reload

Firerate

Charge time/speed

Accuracy

or: a PvP multiplier. so PVP dmg = PVE damage x this multipler.

 

2) Frame' Abilities' Damage and debuff/ buff should be nerd in PVP

Damage reduced.

debuff & buff abilities should be timed in PVP.

and effects be nerd.

[DocHolliday13]

How about this: just remove PvP completely. This game was never about PvP.

[.Talia.]

How about this: just remove PvP completely. This game was never about PvP.

 

I got some news for you: This game is about PvP too, there is PvP instances. Deal with it. They will never remove it. In fact, they will improve it as soon as PvP gets higher in their list of priorities.

[Sixty5]

I miss being able to PvP using radiation Castanas and Penta, though I can see why it was removed.

[Mavericksfd]

Guys I am just talking about a concept here so everyone gets the best of both worlds.  I am not talking about weapons AT ALL in regards to the topic.  This is just for balacing ALL warframes to be viable for PvP long term.  This allows two modes adn each can be balanced accordingly if they need changes to be balanced for either PvP or PvE.  Step back and think about it for a moment.  If this happened to every frame and every ability out there they could easily be balanced based on the inequality in each respective mode.  This allows for the focus to remain on PvE as it is now without changing an ability so much BECAUSE of PvP that it in turn affects PvE play.  The same concept could be applied to weapons to balance them for PvP as well.  I honestly don't want something done which will drasticly affect current PvE play which DE has been focused on.  This concept would permanently fix ALL of it.  The introduction of two modes of combat based on PvE or PvP will give players the versatility to play whatever they want and devs the ability to easily balance any ability or weapon based on which mode needs adjusted.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Mavericksfd

[DocHolliday13]

I got some news for you: This game is about PvP too,

 

No, it's not, and it shouldn't be. Those conclaves? Those are an afterthought, tacked on just for kinda coolness' sake. I can guarantee you, if they ever take it further and start to make changes due to PvP that affect the game overall, they will be losing a lot of vet players.

[Xelorx]

Fine. PvP may be improved/balanced/whatever else over time, but the developer's focus is PvE for this game, and it's turning out to remain that way.

If there was ever more direct PvP features, it should never affect the PvE experience, like it's functioning now. As of now, any changes they do in Conclave, stays in Conclave (or the duel rooms). If this were to change, Warframe would become a different game.

You may enjoy PvP in Warframe, but if you find yourself asking for more, either wait for a long time, or play the million other PvP games out there.

[Mastikator2]

No, it's not, and it shouldn't be. Those conclaves? Those are an afterthought, tacked on just for kinda coolness' sake. I can guarantee you, if they ever take it further and start to make changes due to PvP that affect the game overall, they will be losing a lot of vet players.

They were added because a big chunk of the player base wanted PvP. Whether you like it or not a lot of players like PvP, they like PvP in warframe and PvP in warframe is here to stay.

 

And whether you like it or not PvP is the only real possible "End Game".

[Xelorx]

They were added because a big chunk of the player base wanted PvP. Whether you like it or not a lot of players like PvP, they like PvP in warframe and PvP in warframe is here to stay.

And whether you like it or not PvP is the only real possible "End Game".

Obviously forums are the real end-game.

More seriously, while PvP may add some sort of meta-game were it actually balanced which DOES take some work, it's still the lazy approach to end-game.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Xelorx

[IIJetfireII]

How about everybody start to understand, that Warframe is a damn PvE game, and PvP balancing is not even near the bottom of the to-do list?

No point, no matter how much we say, as long PvP is there, there's no stops to these.

[DocHolliday13]

They were added because a big chunk of the player base wanted PvP. Whether you like it or not a lot of players like PvP, they like PvP in warframe and PvP in warframe is here to stay.

 

And whether you like it or not PvP is the only real possible "End Game".

 

Aww, that's cute. The 50 of you who whined for PvP and finally got a bone thrown to ya think you're a big deal in all this.

[TheDamDog]

 

Sums up my feelings quite nicely, I think.

 

Warframe is not WoW.  We're fine with PvE, thank  you very much.

[Mastikator2]

Obviously forums are the real end-game.

More seriously, while PvP may add some sort of meta-game were it actually balanced which DOES take some work, it's still the lazy approach to end-game.

Balancing PvP is the easiest approach to end game. If you balance PvP you get end game for free, in fact you get open ended end game, which is only possible through PvP. I'd argue that PvP is the best possible end game, the fact that it's also the easiest method of achieving end game doesn't make it lazy.

[SolidSp33d]

Well balance between PvE and PvP is already separate with the little they have done so far, so doing so with warframes isn't far fetched.

 

They don't really need to put any extensive thought or testing onto the PvP side to abilities. For now they could just do some number changes based some quick common sense or direct feedback from the players and let those players continue testing for themselves. Every now and then implement the feedback from the community. This will make it easy on them since the focus on PvP isn't there right now, and still keep testing the conclaves a more enjoyable experience for those who play them.