Where Are The Interesting Enemies?

[notionphil]

When will we get enemies that require something, anything other than pressing 4 or just shooting in its general direction?

 

There's a lot of talk about lack of AI, and anger at bullet sponges, but addressing either of those won't change the reality that Tenno can instantly massacre everything we're up against.

 

I'm all for trash mobs; they show us our relative power. However, something from time to time needs to give us a run for our money. The new commander mobs are a good start, but honestly, we kill them exactly as we do every other mob - point and click or press 4. Nothing new.

 

I'm not talking about bosses, stalker-likes or complex AI. At this point in time we need to create a interesting enemies with some simple counters to Tenno's overwhelming power. These would appear start to appear rarely in medium level missions, up to infrequently (maybe one every min or so) in high level missions.

 

Example enemies that would actually require us to do something besides point and shoot.

 

-Corpus Protoshield:  Equipped with penta with large reload delay, invincible and power resistant shield only turns off when knocked down via melee

     effect: forces player into cover, then timed to approach via melee

 

-Infested Maligant: Ranged unit, shoots viral spines. Can still shoot when CC'd/immobilized. When killed, regenerates to full health 10 seconds later if not ground finished.

     effect: multi-priority target, breaks up flow of combat

 

-Corpus Redactor: Cloaked, damaging long ranged sniper that is visible only for 1 second before (red laser warning), and 5 seconds after taking a shot, in which he runs away from Tenno. Takes only one shot every 30/45 sec. Will not shoot at tenno from closer than 20M.

     effect: disrupt and disorients flow of combat, persists throughout level until killed

 

-Grineer Voidthirster: Twisted grineer heavy female unit with dual marelok. Will teleport up to 15M away from Tenno when he comes within 10M (once per 10 sec). Shielded (purple orokin energy shield). Absorbs all powers that would hit her - each power she's hit with doubles her shield capacity and instantly regenerates it.

     effect: punishes careless players by growing stronger,  avoids player giving grunts a chance to survive

Edited March 25, 2014 by notionphil

[BrotherIcarus]

Well there are several bosses.

[Petersheikah]

Really cool ideas, you have my +1

[notionphil]

Well there are several bosses.

 

Much of our gameplay is outside of assassination missions.

 

If toned-down boss reskins were brought into normal missions, I'd love that as well.  I'm not rallying for the specific enemies I posted, just diversity of combat situations.

 

We need something at med/high levels in regular missions which isn't solved by pressing 4.

[Casardis]

Sounds like these could be actual Leader units, at least vanguards, instead of the ones we currently have.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Casardis

[GraalOhOtonami]

Don't like the idea of breaking combat flow, maybe something that lasts longer and requires movement. Something that isn't huge and slow?

 

Maybe like a huge grineer with a shield that appears with 2 allies- Oh.... Wait.... Ah....

[Liminal]

I really like all of those except for the Grineer. Completely negating powers on such a damaging unit seems unfair for poor flimsy frames :P

The malignant would be the best thing ever. It wouldn't even need to come alone, 3 or 4 of those at the same time would be quite exciting!

[DarknightK]

Oh yesh I like these.

 

Here's a concept I was brewing over (I didn't post it because I don't have any awesomesauce art)

 

Grineer Warmonger: A bulky, G3-like heavy melee enemy that is constantly fed a serum that pacifies it against fellow Grineer, but enrages it at the sight of Tenno. Bred for pure carnage and killing, the Warmonger uses the Jat Kittag to close the gap between his enemies. The Warmonger has thick ballistic plates covering his body. Dealing enough damage will knock these plates off, but players will then have to contend with his godly health pool. Shooting the nutrient tubes that run along his neck to his mouth will throw him into a blinding, uncontrolled rage, pummelling anything in his general vicinity.

 

The Warmonger uses the Jat Kittag's jets to quickly close the gap while following up with devastating swings. He can produce a triple shockwave burst that knocks away players, and is even able to throw his hammer like a boomerang, followed by a massive ground slam. When X% of his health has been depleated in a short amount of time, he will enter a frenzy, gaining increased movement speed and less recovery time between his attacks.

 

EDIT: Oh and for awesome points, the Warmonger has no comprehensible speech, he speaks in broken phrases ("Kill...Tenno, KILL... TENNO..., KILL TENNNOOOOO!") and savage snarls and roars, reflecting his only purpose: to kill.

Edited March 25, 2014 by DarknightK

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Aside from the Grineer one, I love these.

[notionphil]

Oh yesh I like these.

 

Here's a concept I was brewing over (I didn't post it because I don't have any awesomesauce art)

 

Grineer Warmonger: A bulky, G3-like heavy melee enemy that is constantly fed a serum that pacifies it against fellow Grineer, but enrages it at the sight of Tenno. Bred for pure carnage and killing, the Warmonger uses the Jat Kittag to close the gap between his enemies. The Warmonger has thick ballistic plates covering his body. Dealing enough damage will knock these plates off, but players will then have to contend with his godly health pool. Shooting the nutrient tubes that run along his neck to his mouth will throw him into a blinding, uncontrolled rage, pummelling anything in his general vicinity.

 

The Warmonger uses the Jat Kittag's jets to quickly close the gap while following up with devastating swings. He can produce a triple shockwave burst that knocks away players, and is even able to throw his hammer like a boomerang, followed by a massive ground slam. When X% of his health has been depleated in a short amount of time, he will enter a frenzy, gaining increased movement speed and less recovery time between his attacks.

 

EDIT: Oh and for awesome points, the Warmonger has no comprehensible speech, he speaks in broken phrases ("Kill...Tenno, KILL... TENNO..., KILL TENNNOOOOO!") and savage snarls and roars, reflecting his only purpose: to kill.

 

The rocket powered burst sounds pretty hard to counter unless its telegraphed/infrequent, but I'm sure I'd enjoy playing against the Warmonger if it were toned down. I love the ablative shield plate idea.

[RustyNaps]

I like this idea, stuff like this would be welcomed as boss mechanics and regular mobs.

 

This would greatly increase difficulty without having to completely revamp the AI.

[LukeAura]

At least we have the Hellion. 
Which, is just a priority target. 
So I guess it's time for
Hellion 2.0(2.0? Cause, 2.0s? Yeah? Sorry.)
Drastically increased health and/or armor. 
Jetpack is integrated directly to Hellion health, Takes significantly more damage than main body.
Only weapon is the missiles. 
Missiles scatter in area around target, have a briefly delay before going off along with a blinking/smoking/sound signal.
 Has reduced turning and tracking when firing missiles.
 

I rather the 2.0 version be actually flying around.

 

You got it. 
Hellion 2.0, now infused with Oxium. Patrols by floating(High enough to kick a lancer in the face.) Now drops oxium. Ascends higher when Tenno are spotted.

Edited March 25, 2014 by LukeAura

[RustyNaps]

Hellion 2.0

I rather the 2.0 version be actually flying around.

[notionphil]

At least we have the Hellion. 

Which, is just a priority target. 

So I guess it's time for

Hellion 2.0(2.0? Cause, 2.0s? Yeah? Sorry.)

Drastically increased health and/or armor. 

Jetpack is integrated directly to Hellion health, Takes significantly more damage than main body.

Only weapon is the missiles. 

Missiles scatter in area around target, have a briefly delay before going off along with a blinking/smoking/sound signal.

Hellion flies in to air when Tenno is in range. Has reduced turning and tracking when firing missiles.

 

I like it. You'd flank him to take his jetpack out easily, then kill him on the ground while he's helpless.

[Paradoxbomb]

-Corpus Redactor: Cloaked, damaging long ranged sniper that is visible only for 1 second before (red laser warning), and 5 seconds after taking a shot, in which he runs away from Tenno. Takes only one shot every 30/45 sec. Will not shoot at tenno from closer than 20M.

     effect: disrupt and disorients flow of combat, persists throughout level until killed

 

It's like you read my mind. They should either replace regular Corpus Snipers or create an elite version that cloaks himself like the scouts do, and then fires charged Lanka bolts at you. The only you can see them is by watching for the glow generated by their snipers. The invisibility could be tied to their shield so once it's down they can't hide any longer.

 

I also had an idea for an infested unit kind of similar to your Corpus Protoshield. I called it the Ancient Phalanx and essentially it's a large infested that stays aloft via a gas bladder visible on it's back. The front of it is covered in an armored shell that's similar to a Shield Lancer's shield in that it's completely impenetrable from the front unless you have Punch-Through. Even then it's still not recommended that you attack it directly, as it has the ability to generate an Absorption field in front of it that draws in bullets and redirects all that damage back at you after several seconds.

 

It's not actually a highly offensive unit but rather it would hover in front of other infested, blocking your line of fire until it gets them close enough to do serious damage. To defeat it, players would have to risk going into the fray of the infested, and either using their abilities, mobility, or by tricking it into using it's absorb attack, distract it long enough to get around it and shoot it's exposed gas bladder.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

How about this:

 

EMP-Moa:

Heavily shielded support unit. These Moas project emp waves in 90° cones with a 30m length, jamming abilities, worsening accuracy of firearms and removing beneficial effects on Tenno. Removes malevolent effects on Corpus units within a 15m circle. They don't do damage by themselves and are fairly slow. They don't drain shields or energy, they merely deny usage of skills and remove them in their limited range. Magnetic procs disrupt their abilities.

 

-effect: forces players to flank them, attack from a position far away or take a risk and meele them, denies invisibility/iron skin/blessing/m. prime spam for example, makes corpus in general less susbectible to crowd control until it's dead

[notionphil]

It's like you read my mind. They should either replace regular Corpus Snipers or create an elite version that cloaks himself like the scouts do, and then fires charged Lanka bolts at you. The only you can see them is by watching for the glow generated by their snipers. The invisibility could be tied to their shield so once it's down they can't hide any longer.

 

I also had an idea for an infested unit kind of similar to your Corpus Protoshield. I called it the Ancient Phalanx and essentially it's a large infested that stays aloft via a gas bladder visible on it's back. The front of it is covered in an armored shell that's similar to a Shield Lancer's shield in that it's completely impenetrable from the front unless you have Punch-Through. Even then it's still not recommended that you attack it directly, as it has the ability to generate an Absorption field in front of it that draws in bullets and redirects all that damage back at you after several seconds.

 

It's not actually a highly offensive unit but rather it would hover in front of other infested, blocking your line of fire until it gets them close enough to do serious damage. To defeat it, players would have to risk going into the fray of the infested, and either using their abilities, mobility, or by tricking it into using it's absorb attack, distract it long enough to get around it and shoot it's exposed gas bladder.

 

Great idea, Redactor shield shouldn't regen, and should be tied to cloak.

 

I like the Phalanx suggestion too - honestly I just want more engaging mobs, my suggestions are just examples.

[notionphil]

How about this:

 

EMP-Moa:

Heavily shielded support unit. These Moas project emp waves in 90° cones with a 30m length, jamming abilities, worsening accuracy of firearms and removing beneficial effects on Tenno. Removes malevolent effects on Corpus units within a 15m circle. They don't do damage by themselves and are fairly slow. They don't drain shields or energy, they merely deny usage of skills and remove them in their limited range. Magnetic procs disrupt their abilities.

 

-effect: forces players to flank them, attack from a position far away or take a risk and meele them, denies invisibility/iron skin/blessing/m. prime spam for example, makes corpus in general less susbectible to crowd control until it's dead

 

love it. Maybe it could have a tiiiny red off switch, that is visible once every 5 seconds, which you could snipe.

[Paradoxbomb]

How about this:

 

EMP-Moa:

Heavily shielded support unit. These Moas project emp waves in 90° cones with a 30m length, jamming abilities, worsening accuracy of firearms and removing beneficial effects on Tenno. Removes malevolent effects on Corpus units within a 15m circle. They don't do damage by themselves and are fairly slow. They don't drain shields or energy, they merely deny usage of skills and remove them in their limited range. Magnetic procs disrupt their abilities.

 

-effect: forces players to flank them, attack from a position far away or take a risk and meele them, denies invisibility/iron skin/blessing/m. prime spam for example, makes corpus in general less susbectible to crowd control until it's dead

 

Much rather have these than Mag Leaders (the designer who thought permanent energy drain that goes through walls was fun and challenging needs to look for new work).

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I wish I still had the thread (stupid lack of scrollback past late last year) where I listed several of my own ideas on the subject

 

Anyways, they included things like an infested unit that could crawl through walls, going from one "gate" to another where each gate was a destructible tunnel entrance.  Scare it and it runs back in to hide.

 

Another unit was an infested spawner.  Low health, but fast movement and the longer it lives, the more sub-units it spawns.

 

There was of course the idea of turning the Corpus Tech into a mech.  I also gave Corpus a medical Osprey that could revive recently downed crewmen.  Very very fragile and unshielded (unless around a Shield Osprey), but able to revive Crewmen (not MOAs or other Ospreys though).

 

I don't recall if I ever gave the Grineer anything.

[Vengola]

Grineer have a decent amount of interesting enemies.

 

Corpus seems lacking, probably due to same look on multiple soldier variations. I would give them mini Jackal and Zanuka reinforcements. SImilar to Malta in City of Heroes who were mostly soldiers but had a heavy mech or two in the mix.

 

Infested could use a lot more work. There is tons of possibilities with faction like this. Infested soldiers that actually use their gear in addition to suicide bomber, torso and a dog we have now. It is funny that Grineer have more variation then these.

 

Throw in some mutant brutes, gangly types that crawl on the walls, spiderlike and or/mantis hybrids and something crazy that flies (infector monster from Dead Space was ripped off from H.P. Lovecraft's Necronomicon movie so forget copyright scare). Hell add a beholder ripoff like Doom did with their Cacodemons or a floating masterbrain thing. 

 

Let us not forget traps as well. There is tons of flesh on infested tiles. That flesh could drain health from player like in Silent Hill or use tentacles to lash and grab. Half Life had tongue that hangs on the ceilling that brings player to the maw, Left4Dead had zombie that pulls with tongue. Things like these would work for infested traps.

[Freelancer27]

-Corpus Protoshield:  Equipped with penta with large reload delay, invincible and power resistant shield only turns off when knocked down via melee

     effect: forces player into cover, then timed to approach via melee

I cannot express my needs of a Corpus Heavy Unit than providing my 3rd Grade hand-drawing of a chicken carrying an energy shield with several launchers on the side.

 

Edited March 26, 2014 by Freelancer27

[notionphil]

I cannot express my needs of a Corpus Heavy Unit than providing my 3rd Grade hand-drawing of a chicken carrying an energy shield with several launchers on the side.

 

Love it. I was initially thinking of a human troop but your idea looks great and obviously corpus need a mech. Swapping him in later today when I get the chance.

[MDRLOz]

Nice ideas. I am quite tired of people saying we need Ai 2.0 when really what they mean/want is to be engaging with game mechanics more. Like your malignant. Ground attacks are silly and underused but a nice thing if they were required which that mob would force.