There Isn't A Single Boss In The Game That's Fun.

[Innocent_Flower]

There isn't. Seriously. It sucks. This might seem rude, but in this case it'd be rude to be polite. To be polite would be to mislead the developers into thinking it's ok. They're not ok. They're terrible. Lephantis might be 'ok' and it's the best one. That's 'ok' and not the "good" that any self respecting developer would settle for. 

 

 

Fun bosses from other games:

Brute chieftan- halo 3

Hunter- halo 

Antlion guardian- Half life 2

Combine helicopter- Half life 2

Predator- Avp 2010 . The game itself isn't even good. But the boss is good. 

Monster hunter- The game is entirely about bosses.  But the bosses are realy, realy basic. For the most part they're still good. 

Big dadies from bioshock. Particularly the bouncers. 

 

 

Now look at warframes bosses. 

 

Firstly, the music sucks. That doesn't help anyone. It doesn't tell us what the boss is doing or where we are in the fight. The music in warframe isn't a strongpoint. It doesn't add to the combat or the exploration or the pace much. In general the music needs an overhaul. It doesn't help the game, let alone the bosses

 

Secondly the bosses are always fought in the same place. 

We fight these bosses between three and thirty times if we want something from them.  It doesn't help that the scenario is always the same. It's similar to defence missions. But it's WORSE than defense missions. 

 

Individual bosses. 

 

Lech krill is agonizing. He's incredibly easy to dodge. despite having his own unique mechanics Mr krill is just as boring as the generic bosses found in warframe. He will never catch up to you and you're going to spend all your time shooting at his back tube things because you don't quite understand how to cause damage.  

 

Let's look at a boss from another game that uses a hammer; brute hammer chief's (halo 3.) 
They have a very dangerous weapon that'l blast you across the map. Fun

They move just as fast as the player. Fun . They even bounce a bit. More fun. 
because of the movement speed, ai and the amount of health he has he's Fun to fight alone and in four player co-op. as opposed to.. i don't know... krill who just stands still and swings his hammer around like a toddler trying to grab a fly with chopsticks

Their invincibility is short and identifiable. Not a pain in the arse. 

They jump realy high. Fun

They've got great warcrys and babble lots. 

You can shoot their hats off. 

The Vor tagteam fight is particularly droll due to the fact that he can't use the arena for S#&$. 

 

This monkey with a hammer is far more fun than sir krill. You know what? It wouldn't hurt to make krill more like this hammer wielding monkey. Bioshock's bouncers are another great boss to be used as inspiration. Just for those crazy dashes. 

 

Phorid

- Can be beaten simply by strafing in one direction and shooting; not fun

- has an incomprehensible scream attack that is invisible and harmful- not fun. 

-  missile attack isn't interesting. 

- boring sound effects

 

Compare this to antlion guardians (HL2)

-Clear and distinct movements coupled by excellent and thrilling sound- good

-Throws things - fun

- charge attack that's fun to avoid. 

- bucks players

-summons fun to kill antlions.

- Occasionaly there's more than one. Double fun

 

Raptor

- Uninteresting mine dropping attacks. The mines are useless yellow blobs that don't do much. 

- powerful rapid fire exposive gun that gives no warnings

- uninteresting model

 

Half life 2's helicopter

should i even bother to compare them? HL2's copter is, once again, leaps and bounds above raptor. Let's see: 

- powerful machine-guns have a wind-up time with a great audio cue that tells you to seek cover or have it literally rain bullets. Fun

- eratic explosive dropping. You've got just enough time to get out of the blast radius. Fun

- That one time in episode 2 where it goes mental and starts spraying timed explosives like they're pesticides. Fun. 

 

Ruk

I've killed the guy loads. I don't even know what attacks he uses. the only one that hits me is the fire nuke thing. He's just boring though. He's a bullet sponge that explodes occasionally. Boring. I'm comparing him to halo's hunter because they have some visual similarities

Hunter

- Great visual warning before weapon fires

- Slow enough to take advantage of, fast enough to catch and destroy you. 

- large and most excellent animation for mellee attempts. 

-  Strong at the front. Weak at the back. as warframe's a game that boasts fluid movement this is realy something that should be done more. 

 

 

Jackal 

static. Hardly moves. Boring

shockwave attacks have no variety to them. 

Other attacks are uninteresting. 

 

Monster hunter fights

- Large monsters use their size effectively to hurt the player. This can be through leaping, jumping, spinning, and even charging forward like an idiot. 

- Monsters use big attacks with (usually) big animations that go with them. 

- There's an enraged mode that'l bugger the player up. Stuff like attacking twice as fast or twice as much. sometimes causes heart rates to double. 

- Monsters continuously reposition themselves around the arena

 

Hyenas

I don't know what's going on when i fight them. It's a light show. Fighting them is messy and not in the good way. I don't know who to compare them to either. 

 

Alad V and zanuka

The relationship they have doesn't work well. They don't work together other than to revive Alad.  (oh and the arena doesn't favour them. The drones that come in are more dangerous)
 

 

Stalker

I find stalker to be one of the less dumb bosses. Mostly because he's not about health but rather speed and damage. He's still a simple character. To me it'd just be more fun if he acted like an enemy bot player with competent ai. 

 

 

Generic bosses and vor

 

Why did i like AVP's predator boss? Because he used the environment. He jumped around from pillar to pillar in that small arena. I think these generic bosses (and vor)  would be more fun if they could effectively and regularly leap from place to place. Maybe a Helion backpack or a pair of drone wings would be nice. Slash dash isn't just an effective weapon- it's also a means of getting around

 

These bosses should have power weapons. Think of explosive round miniguns with a loud and slow wind up time. Or easy to avoid napalm launchers. Or Ion cannons or charged railguns, stugs or glaives.  Weapons like the hek shotgon or the gorgon just aren't interesting for a boss to use. 

 

Parkour. Wallrunning and sliding. These guys are supposed to be the elite. Some of them should be able to pull of this tenno S#&$. 

 

Additional powers. Not just change what kind of stomp they use but things like fireball, snowglobe, ripline, resurrect corpses.. maybe a version of mag's pull so long as the floor duration is reduced. 

 

 

Just in case it's forgotten: alternative boss fight tiles. we're gonna fight these guys several times in a row if we realy want something from them. Might as well have some variety with them

Edited March 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Thirsty_Pickle]

Aren't you a negative nelly.

[Archistopheles]

Based on the few threads of yours I've already read, OP, I'm tempted to agree with Thirsty Pickle

 

Edit: You also neglected to mention the Orokin Derelict boss.... Interesting...

Edited March 25, 2014 by Archistopheles

[123Olympian]

Honestly to sum it up, I skimmed yet get the point.

 

 

For most bosses they are are kind of bland, even Ruk, as he is easy to kill, yet time consuming.

 

 

Really, it's fun to get bosses quick, yet not hard to a point you can play, or just have "abilities" to have you wait.

 

They are working on music, which is swell so far.

Edited March 25, 2014 by 123Olympian

[LadyScootaloo]

Odd comparisons.

Fair analysis.

Space Ninja Claps.

[Thirsty_Pickle]

Also, you're comparing Warframe, a relatively new online F2P game with 2 of the biggest and most successful science-fiction / action games of all time.

 

Does not compute.

[evo454]

Lephantus is amazing, if you are ever bored, jut try solo running him.

-multi stage fight

-multiple abilities

-massive arena

We need more bosses like that!

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

if you consider brute chieftain/hunters a boss or to have the same difficulty of a boss. sir you suck at video games.

[ExplodingStars]

if you consider brute chieftain/hunters a boss or to have the same difficulty of a boss. sir you suck at video games.

Funnily enough we can't kill those enemies as fast as we kill the bosses of WF. 

[spysweeper242]

Ruk, New Hek, The G3, Krill and Jackal/Zanuaka/Hyena are fun. Its your opinion dude

[bejuizb]

Lephantus is amazing, if you are ever bored, jut try solo running him.

-multi stage fight

-multiple abilities

-massive arena

We need more bosses like that!

My Twin Wraith Vipers destroy each head as they open vulnerable spots. I don't want to gimp myself to a lower level just to make the fight tough against a level 49 boss.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Yeah, a lot of those bosses you're talking about as bosses from other games aren't actually bosses. Like, Big Daddies? Hunters? What?

New Hek

Wait, what? New Hek's out?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[KoshLovesYou]

Using HL2s Single Player experience bosses also isn't quite a bit fair, from a framerate/netcoding/AI standpoint.

[Aure7]

1) All bosses are several times more challanging and fun when in solo. This is not a good thing though.

 

2) Krill is quite fun, just needs to hit harder and faster with hammer

 

3) Ruk is again very fun in solo. Also he's not a bullet sponge, requires to be distracted in order to hit the weakspots.

 

4) Jackal is not bad at all for an early mission. Attacks are powerful for newbies.

 

5) Hyenas are super fun but 100% agree that fx effects and auras are way to bright and distracting, awful looking.

 

6) Zanuka and alad v are good but I 100% agree with your statement.

 

And please don't expect vor to fly around like a ninja...

[xlraistlx]

K.

[Bazools]

They are fun but aren't they to easy to defeat!?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Bazools

[(PSN)bmulligan]

Yeah, a lot of those bosses you're talking about as bosses from other games aren't actually bosses. Like, Big Daddies? Hunters? What?

Wait, what? New Hek's out?

Well, in games like Halo, there are more so "boss levels" than bosses. Brute Chieftains and Hunters are all sub-bosses, as there is never really any character that acts as a boss in the Halo franchise.  Also, in my experience with Bioshock, Big Daddies are most definitely not bosses.

 

However, he is not incorrect in making comparisons between Hunters/Brutes and Big Daddies to the bosses found within Warframe. Excluding Lephantis, most bosses are killed relatively quickly, and do little to slow or deepen the game. Mostly, I see bosses as ways to slow down my sacrificing of virgins and sheep to those known as the RNG gods.

[KaikelX]

While I agree boss fights could use some spicing up, I wouldn't agree with some of your examples....

 

First off, I'm assuming you're talking about Halo 2 and onwards Hunters, because Halo 1 Hunters were easy as pie. You literally run at them, run around to the right, and shoot. If you have the pistol, you don't even have to shoot more than once. Still, even in the other Halos, fighting Hunters boils down to "Run around their right and shoot lots of times." Every attack pattern they have is nullfied by running around to the right. I don't even remember fighting the Brute Chieftain in Halo 3, and where was it?

I found HL2's chopper fight (the one where you drive to the base and the guy gives you a launcher right?) to be largely uninteresting for the mostly the exact same reason you found Raptor Uninteresting. Except replace random explosive attack with "Tries to shred you with bullets anytime you're out of cover". 

I don't see how big daddies would be an improvement over warframe bosses either. Unless the strategy for Big Daddies (in combat, usually I set traps) wasn't supposed to be run away and shoot. Which I already do enough of against warframe bosses.

 

EDIT: 

@ bmulligan: You forgot about Tartarus and the Prophet in Halo 2. I think their poor reception was largely responsible for the shift to boss levels instead of boss characters.

Edited March 25, 2014 by KaikelX

[HellEnforcer]

 Although I agree that bosses could get a further rework, you are comparing different things, not to mention the incredible bias I can see. You are not only neglecting to mention a lot of things about WarFrame's bosses, but also highlighting things that are close to non existent in the bosses you use for comparison.

 

 Just to put you an example, the helicopter of HL2 does not have a wind up time at all (or at least not in the highest difficulty which was the one I played). It does have a small wind up sound though. Raptor has "Uninteresting mine dropping attacks"? It is so way similar to the mine dropping of the helicopter you are praising.

 

 As for the sound. That has been known and they are working on it. They are constantly changing sounds around. The music is not even fully implemented yet. I think they talked about it during one of the livestreams though.

 

 Could the bosses use reworks? Hell yes. 

 Are they bad? Just the old ones that are getting the reworks. The new ones are not bad.

 Is your post biased? To no end. Seriously, if you plan in comparing two things that are not very similar, at least try to be fair in the comparison. Point ALL the good things for both sides and ALL the bad things of both sides. You Picked the good ones of the ones you used to compare and you not only picked the bad one from WarFrame but even downgraded them.

[Llyssa]

I like how lots of subjective, qualitative reasons that mean nothing are given as support for arguments of "fun" and "not fun", and thew few that aren't totally subjective make no sense.

 

"They move just as fast as the player. Fun ." How or why is that fun? It sounds completely uninteresting.

 

"They have a very dangerous weapon that'l blast you across the map. Fun" if it wasn't for the context of this post, I'd think that "Fun" is pure sarcasm.

 

Not useful feedback at all.

[XAN3MK]

Aside from Monster Hunter, which is basically a boss fighthing game, none of the other titles used in the comparison have a memorable boss fights. HL2 is one of the greatest FPS games ever, but is anything but good in the "boss" department. If you want an example of good boss fights, fitting for Warframe's caliber, look at something like Diablo 2 or Path of Exile -- challenging yet totally soloable fights (as they should be).

[Taranis49]

Lephantus is amazing, if you are ever bored, jut try solo running him.

-multi stage fight

-multiple abilities

-massive arena

We need more bosses like that!

 

Even Lephantis isn't particularly great unless you handicap yourself or limit frame choice (hell, he's downright target practice if you play a Rhino) and he's one of the better ones; even then he didn't meet the hype or what were advertised prior to his release: e.g. being able to wallrun/parkour on him (if it's even possible, it serves no purpose whatsoever, since his torso has no apparent collision detection).

 

While I wouldn't be as harsh as the OP about it, he does have something of a point. Even after makeovers, a lot of boss encounters, e.g. Vor, Ruk, and Kril are pretty empty filler. Vor and his orb of supreme time wastage being the worst offender.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Taranis49

[Paradoxbomb]

Well, you can't really judge them on their locations and music, the same tilesets over and over is just the nature of the game and DE has stated they are in fact adding more music in the near future. Could they use unique arenas? Of course, but for now I'll let that slide with the whole "It's Beta" excuse.

 

I think I'm also a bit more optimistic about the bosses, I actually do enjoy the fight with Lech Kril and the Raptor to a degree, and I don't mind phases in boss battles whereas everyone seems to have some obsession with being able to kill a boss in one second flat. I blame that on two factors: 1) That's just the nature of RPGs where you have to kill a boss a million times just to get the goodies and 2) While I do find the majority of boss fights fun to a degree, I still agree with you that they definitely need more to them because right now they aren't all that engaging and there just isn't much reason FOR players to feel excited to fight and would rather just take their cells and BPs and rinse and repeat.

 

-Lech Kril NEEDS to be more aggressive, he's got a Gorgon and a Hammer and yet he rarely seems to do anything except stand alone and get shot, especially in the second phase. He needs to rain vengeance down upon you once he goes fire mode, maybe pick one player out of the bunch and brutalize them before moving on to the next. Fun as I find him, I definitely think the fight needs to be a lot more "intense". His back panel could also afford to a slightly bigger weak-spot, because dang.

 

-All Infested need work honestly, and Phorid's no exception. Should have a charge attack and his armor should be impenetrable so that way the players must flank him in order to shoot his unarmored sides. Make his scream attack summon infested, give him a more frequent but not quite as insta-gib ranged attack, etc, etc. And that's just off the top of my head. Oh and of course a design overhaul.

 

-Jackal, I don't even know whats up with him, I legitimately think his fight is broken because even on solo he just becomes unresponsive halfway through the fight and I can't even tell if I'm hurting him. They really need to fine-tune this one badly. As for the Hyenas, they're a step in the right direction, though honestly I think DE went a bit crazy with the Auras and it ended up being a bit too punishing, both in terms of gameplay and (as you said) to our eyes. That Ice Hyena get too close? Well guess what, he has a constant slow-down effect that makes it nearly impossible to move away? Oh and look! Now you can't escape that Energy Hyena's magnetic field! Have fun fighting with no energy and no way to get it back! Had the fight been a tiny bit less punishing and the effects not quite so blinding when you have all four on you at once this one could've been almost perfect.

 

-I actually like your comparison of the Raptor the HL2 Copter. It would be a really good twist if instead of seeking it, it seeks us out and randomly attacks us throughout the mission until you destroy it once and for all.

 

 

I'm getting tired of typing but I think I made my point. Ruk suffers the same issue as Kril in that he ends up standing around doing nothing half the time, and the other bosses are just bullet sponges (but they get a pass since they'll be reworked anyway). I think Vor is pretty good though and Lephantis is definitely the most impressive, but there's definitely room for much more improvement to these guys.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[ScorpioEric]

You're comparing singles player games to Warframe, an mmorpg (kinda) which has to have tons of content (OP frames/ weapons), the games you mentioned are all single player games, which has only a few weapons, that are mostly balanced.

Edited March 26, 2014 by ScorpioEric

[Shin]

Aside from Stalker and those new Hyena pack (i want them to be added into the normal mob spawn soooo bad) nothing is fun to kill. 

 

You just look at your target, let out a "meh" then murder it without even looking at it.

 

But stalker is not like that, You fear that bastard because he can one shot you. If only DE does something to that guy in Melee 2.0 and let us have a proper duels with that guy, i'll be satisfied as duck.

 

Rest of the bosses are bullet sponges no matter how you look at them. You just shoot and kill them. Atleast when stalker comes you are forced to do your best to avoid him because he's going to ruin your haircut.