There Isn't A Single Boss In The Game That's Fun.

[XAN3MK]

The Stalker dies from a single Marelok bullet to the face. He is usually dead before he even gets up. The worst thing he can do now is to dispell you, which isn't much in and of itself.

[Taranis49]

The Stalker dies from a single Marelok bullet to the face. He is usually dead before he even gets up. The worst thing he can do now is to dispell you, which isn't much in and of itself.

 

The Stalker's in a bad spot design-wise too, in my view - granted, that's partly due to the numerical nature of the game. We've seen both extremes, e.g. where he was a ridiculous bullet sponge even if you had top-notch gear with maxed mods (which meant killing him was nigh-impossible for newer players), to the current iteration.

 

Even now, it seems it's basically just a contest of who one-shots who first. That's not a particularly fun or engaging encounter, regardless of whether you win or not.

 

Adding the dispel gimmick was definitely part of the problem, in my view, since it cripples player choice and creative solutions. Though I'm not sure if it's still the case, people running ability-reliant frames or running with a Shade sentinel would just wind up getting stagger-locked to death the instant he showed up.

[Innocent_Flower]

It doesn't matter if bid daddies and hammer brutes are bosses or not. Even in being a 'sub boss' they trump warframe's bosses. Lech krill would be so much more fun if he didn't stand idly whilst the player shot him and instead charged like a madman and leaped like a demon. 

 

 

 

For me, half life's guardians, striders, helicopters and even the gunships (which i can't realy use as an example. Gunships only worked because of the rocket launcher) were very memorable. That might be because all of half life was very memorable. All subjectivity aside: The comparisons from warframe have absolutely nothing on them. 

 

I suppose part of warframe's problem is that bosses don't scale. You're either gonna spend several minures shooting them or one prat with a bow or soma or whatever will instakill them. DE should also work on this. 

 

It's not sarcasm. I do like the big hits, delivered by the likes of hammer cheiftans and guardians,  that send you across the map

Edited March 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[XAN3MK]

Adding the dispel gimmick was definitely part of the problem, in my view, since it cripples player choice and creative solutions. Though I'm not sure if it's still the case, people running ability-reliant frames or running with a Shade sentinel would just wind up getting stagger-locked to death the instant he showed up.

 

I would agree, but to a degree, since on the other end of the spectrum you have situations like the G3, who can be permanently stasis locked by Rhino, for example. Neither of the extremes are good per se. Unique spawns should not completely negate abilities or be immune to them, but at the same time it shouldn't be endlessly CC-able either. Some form of effect reduction or DR should be implemented, although it doesn't really matter when the target can die within few bullets fired in their general direction.

[NjaII]

I used to do raids in another famous game with 24 other people.

 

I don't expect Warframe to deliver the same quality in terms of design and strategy about bosses, but I agree with you, they are all bullets sponges.

[Innocent_Flower]

I used to do raids in another famous game with 24 other people.

 

I don't expect Warframe to deliver the same quality in terms of design and strategy about bosses, but I agree with you, they are all bullets sponges.

You should though. It's a third person shooter. Shooters should have bosses that fit perfectly with the action gameplay. 

[XAN3MK]

You should though. It's a third person shooter. Shooters should have bosses that fit perfectly with the action gameplay. 

 

Yet shooters, in general, have never had good boss fights.

[notionphil]

while i'm not a fan of the OP's tone/delivery, I agree with at least one core point he's making. Our bosses don't feel epic. In fact, I feel like we're "bossing" them around. Why?

 

In many of the game's he's listing, "good" bosses have

 

-incredibly damaging attacks which are well-telegraphed but aggressive, making them satisfying to evade/prevent

-highly visible player-activated weak spots, or logical weakness which we can exploit

 

These bosses are invulnerable and have overwhelming power. Yet, our 'skill' and 'cunning' lets us exploit their weaknesses and outwit them. the combination of these factors makes the boss fight feel like david and goliath, where you use cunning and skill to take down the overwhelming giant.

 

Lephantis has these characteristics. Which is why he's OK with that fight.

 

In WF, most of our bosses have

 

-moderately damaging/stunning attacks, which cannot be evaded or the evasion methods are opaque (phorid, ruk)

-ongoing hitscan or nearly undodgable weaker attacks, which feels like cheap shots

-time based, unclear or poorly indicated invulnerability states, or no invulnerability

 

Because the heavy attacks are so hard/opaque to evade, they can't be strong enough to make us fear them. That coupled with the ongoing small-arms fire makes our bosses feel more like we're trading punches with an equal, or waiting for a 'lesser' to open his shell so we can crack it.

 

Decidely un-epic.

 

PS - even the new hyena pack fight, which I LOVE for its challenge and fun, is also really not all that epic. We have another nearly unavoidable mega attack (energy drain), after which it just comes down to evading away and gunning.

 

Good fun, for sure, but we're defeating equals, not 'greaters'. Their leap slam attacks are quasi-telegraphed, so that's a good start tho. Their messages are also great.

Edited March 26, 2014 by notionphil

[NjaII]

In Warframe, bosses are divided in two categories :

 

1 - I can kill you with one magazine.

2 - I just have to run in circle until you expose your weakpoint, then, I kill you with one magazine.

Edited March 26, 2014 by NjaII

[XRAY0128]

Funnily enough we can't kill those enemies as fast as we kill the bosses of WF.

Sure, provided you have maxed out gear. I still cant solo Hek because my dps cant breach his shields.

I think some of the bosses have cool concepts though. Maybe the boredom come from having to farm them do much?

I kind of like the Alad V fight, and Sargas seems neat. Havent tried to solo him yet though.

I do however agree that the bosses need more tell for their attacks. Like the Jackal and Stalker can kill me instantly and without warning

Edited March 26, 2014 by XRAY0128

[zerossu]

Yet shooters, in general, have never had good boss fights.

 

 

Vanquish Zaitzev

 

Edited March 30, 2014 by zerossu

[XAN3MK]

 

 

 

 

My point exactly. Slightly better than Warframe yet mediocre to avg at best. Compare it to any decent RPG or MMO boss fight and it falls flat on its face.

[bobafetthotmail]

Using HL2s Single Player experience bosses also isn't quite a bit fair, from a framerate/netcoding/AI standpoint.

What? A single enemy with a decent AI does not break the game. All the mess of FX and relatively smart AI that the 4 hyenas do does not break the game.

 

Also, you can play Half Life on Android with emulators. It's lighter than MS Office 2010 lol.

[bobafetthotmail]

Sure, provided you have maxed out gear. I still cant solo Hek because my dps cant breach his shields.

This is exactly the issue. Bosses should employ mechanics that pur the player's skill to the test, not his equipment (within reason anyway).

 

I can basically solo everything apart from hyenas (because POWER DRAIN!!! and SLOW/KOCKDOWN SPAM!!!!) with a decently modded frame and gun.

 

Hyenas are somewhat decent, but once you remove the POWER DRAIN!!!! hyena they suddenly become kittens for decently modded frame/weapons.

 

Everything else is a piece of cake.

Edited March 26, 2014 by bobafetthotmail

[Innocent_Flower]

But like... 

 

Brute hammers, antlion guardians, combine helicopters... predators...  They're all realy fun and they're all from first person shooters. 

 

Yeah. They're not "grand bosses" with multiple stages and "shoot this part of me when it lights up" things... but they're realy fun, close to boss-hood and they take a lot of skill and concentration to beat. 

 

The game mode is called 'assassination' not 'bosshunter'.