Deristel Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'm actually okay with the way it is. Each frame's powers consume energy. Since Ember expends energy to control/create fire she would theoretically have to expend energy (possibly a slow energy drain) to be resistant/immune to the element as well. one thing is to have to use energy to superheat the air,another thing is having a warframe capable of sustaining your power,meaning that if you go superheating the air the risk to damage yourself with high temperature is reduced (i dunno,an internal cooling system,high temp resilient material inside the suit).But this is just my opinion based on how hi-tech were the orokin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)john5153 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Lol this is funny.....the game is nice....,remember I started with that...I jumped into the lame world of online gaming that isn't football......so. At the ends of the day, I didn't know that it would take " rewriting" all the codes or what not..again..I am a noob.... But I noticed a few people come on here with "warframe logic" then dismiss whatever doesn't fit under that scope.... If I can control fire....I should have some immunity to it.......funny thing is that in every fictional thing u see from comic books to movies...... Again I seen 1 user come up with the logical explanation not to have it.....and it was something about the code being rewritten for something that is small....I get that....but don't sit there and dismiss the idea like its stupid.......makes sense in the logical or illogical fictional world......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Because logic. Mag is still effected by Magnetic debuffs, despite there being no way at all she could use her own powers without them effecting her as well should this be the case. Same as Volt. Frosts shields get effected by ice! He spends 90% of his game time sat in an igloo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)john5153 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Because logic. Mag is still effected by Magnetic debuffs, despite there being no way at all she could use her own powers without them effecting her as well should this be the case. Same as Volt. Frosts shields get effected by ice! He spends 90% of his game time sat in an igloo! What I was saying and the other guy said in a better way...was there is a happy medium.....true u don't have to be immortal or totally immune to it, but there should be some less effect...that is logical.......again we throwing logic at a game that was made in someone's mind...... Both can't scream " logic" on both sides of the argument....and totally dismiss the other side. Good example of volt..like those new arc traps....like if he goes by them...,something cool would be they totally destroyed...but I understand for " balance" that's unlikely....but it definitely should effect him for less time and take slightly less off..... U spot on with the frost....I don't see how that makes sense, except for what he guy said...coding would be too difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deristel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) What I was saying and the other guy said in a better way...was there is a happy medium.....true u don't have to be immortal or totally immune to it, but there should be some less effect...that is logical.......again we throwing logic at a game that was made in someone's mind...... Both can't scream " logic" on both sides of the argument....and totally dismiss the other side. Good example of volt..like those new arc traps....like if he goes by them...,something cool would be they totally destroyed...but I understand for " balance" that's unlikely....but it definitely should effect him for less time and take slightly less off..... U spot on with the frost....I don't see how that makes sense, except for what he guy said...coding would be too difficult I don't agree about the coding too difficult to do.We already have mods that if fitted into the warframe slot increase resistances to fire,ice,electric and so on.So the system is already implemented.They should just add a "Innate flame repellent mod rank 1" to the emeber warframe.Ofc,as i already said,this is not top priority and i do agree there are other things to fix.But i don't think it would be so hard to do. Edited March 27, 2014 by Deristel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosdreamer Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh again those kind of thread , don't try to use logic around here it doesnt fit in warframe , I've already tried to talk about this even in her Previous "power skin" People find out that your current fire is weak so outside fire is stronger you get damaged even if it not logic at all Remember when Ember was burning herself to Boost her Atk / def ? , Circle of fire... oh wait ,but... Ever heard of World on fire(if i dont mistake some name long time no use of my ember) First version had Fire in big area , now its even better its throw some sort of meteora / fire from sky YET You find something more hot than that? Elemental imminuty seem logics , It's applied in almost every games except one you guess which one is it If you are ever played Final Fantasy Series , When you see elemental ennemies lets say randomly Bombo , You avoid to launch him "Fire spell or anything that explode" because it's his Element and absorb / nullify damage , but what you will do it send him some hight damage ice to kill it fast right? Why this does not apply in WF ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deristel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh again those kind of thread , don't try to use logic around here it doesnt fit in warframe , I've already tried to talk about this even in her Previous "power skin" People find out that your current fire is weak so outside fire is stronger you get damaged even if it not logic at all Remember when Ember was burning herself to Boost her Atk / def ? , Circle of fire... oh wait ,but... Ever heard of World on fire(if i dont mistake some name long time no use of my ember) First version had Fire in big area , now its even better its throw some sort of meteora / fire from sky YET You find something more hot than that? Elemental imminuty seem logics , It's applied in almost every games except one you guess which one is it If you are ever played Final Fantasy Series , When you see elemental ennemies lets say randomly Bombo , You avoid to launch him "Fire spell or anything that explode" because it's his Element and absorb / nullify damage , but what you will do it send him some hight damage ice to kill it fast right? Why this does not apply in WF ? I agree,expecially if you think that actually enemies have resistance and whatnot.There are those weak to lightning and resistent to fire,weak to viral and resistent to blast,and so on.Why should a ember frame be different,lore wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) This has also been a major issue with me, elemental frames should have resistances to their base elementals. As OP said, Frost/cold, Ember/heat, Saryn/poison, etc. It doesn't have to be immunity, but some resistance makes sense. Sure, fire burns but Ember's HEAD IS ON FIRE FFS lol Would that make Rhino resistant to bullets? I mean, his power is Iron/Ferrite. jkjk Edited March 27, 2014 by Gelkor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deristel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Would that make Rhino immune to bullets? I mean, his power is Iron/Ferrite. jkjk wich is why he has high health,shield,and a nice iron skin U_U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Same goes to why frost get reduced shields when on an "ice" mission Edited March 27, 2014 by DMan128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Fight fire with fire. They fight for resources and burn each other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MyTagForHalo Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 how is it stupid? does it say specifically anywhere that in the lore that "ember cannot be hurt by fire under any circumstances"? no? then you have no actual argument other than "i assume it would make more sense this way" a game should always be about gameplay first and realism second, especially in an established (science) fiction setting warframe does not and should not conform to reality or logic, if i wanted a game that conformed to reality i would play arma3 or just go outside I dont think there is a game out there that is after realism first, gameplay second. Every game is unrealistic in it's own way. Your logic is illogical because it would cause a player to suddenly have a disadvantage or a advantage depending on what frame they decided to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Also, I will leave this here because I like to connect unconnected things: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) So lets say ember gets a resistance to fire and weak to ice. ONE enemy in the entire game uses ice damage, Lech Kril, (Not even ice leaders deal ice damage) so her weakness may not even exist for as often as it will come into play. And now lets make frost resistant to ice (again ONE enemy that uses it) and weak to fire. He is now majorly hurt by high level Grineer (Napalms and Scorches, 2 of what is already the highest damage dealers for the grineer) and is resistant to a SINGLE enemy. How is that in any way balanced between the two? Or look at volt. You can count the lightning attacks on one hand. And what would he be weak to? Toxic? Which comes from a faction that is pure melee and wouldn't be able to do anything... So Volts resistances/weaknesses would be useless across the board. Same would be true with Saryn, just the reverse. So in the current system it would look like this: -Ember: HUGE buff, no drawback -Frost: HUGE NERF, no benefit -Volt: No change -Saryn: No change And what about the rest of the frames? EG The non-elemental frames that make up the vast majority of the choices. What would you give them to balance it out? Edited March 27, 2014 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetDummy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Same reason why soldiers are not immune to bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Same reason why soldiers are not immune to bullets. Well, soldiers ALSO don't produce bullets from their bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deristel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Same reason why soldiers are not immune to bullets. Wich is why they have shields and ferrite-alloy armor and they don't go around butt-naked like civilians:p So lets say ember gets a resistance to fire and weak to ice. ONE enemy in the entire game uses ice damage, Lech Kril, (Not even ice leaders deal ice damage) so her weakness may not even exist for as often as it will come into play. And now lets make frost resistant to ice (again ONE enemy that uses it) and weak to fire. He is now majorly hurt by high level Grineer (Napalms and Scorches, 2 of what is already the highest damage dealers for the grineer) and is resistant to a SINGLE enemy. How is that in any way balanced between the two? Or look at volt. You can count the lightning attacks on one hand. And what would he be weak to? Toxic? Which comes from a faction that is pure melee and wouldn't be able to do anything... So Volts resistances/weaknesses would be useless across the board. Same would be true with Saryn, just the reverse. So in the current system it would look like this: -Ember: HUGE buff, no drawback -Frost: HUGE NERF, no benefit -Volt: No change -Saryn: No change And what about the rest of the frames? EG The non-elemental frames that make up the vast majority of the choices. What would you give them to balance it out? Frost could get less reduction on shield from ice and ember could just have a little reducion on fire damage (i mean the fire you find around the ship,not the one from the mobs).The % of resistence could be so low to not change anything also. But i do agree about the balance issue,that's why i was talking more about environmental hazard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosdreamer Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So lets say ember gets a resistance to fire and weak to ice. ONE enemy in the entire game uses ice damage, Lech Kril, (Not even ice leaders deal ice damage) so her weakness may not even exist for as often as it will come into play. And now lets make frost resistant to ice (again ONE enemy that uses it) and weak to fire. He is now majorly hurt by high level Grineer (Napalms and Scorches, 2 of what is already the highest damage dealers for the grineer) and is resistant to a SINGLE enemy. How is that in any way balanced between the two? Or look at volt. You can count the lightning attacks on one hand. And what would he be weak to? Toxic? Which comes from a faction that is pure melee and wouldn't be able to do anything... So Volts resistances/weaknesses would be useless across the board. Same would be true with Saryn, just the reverse. So in the current system it would look like this: -Ember: HUGE buff, no drawback -Frost: HUGE NERF, no benefit -Volt: No change -Saryn: No change And what about the rest of the frames? EG The non-elemental frames that make up the vast majority of the choices. What would you give them to balance it out? We are talking about Ice maps , fire maps , That Grakata user You know , @!# Ember running into those she take damage , when she is burning herself, you know When the maps is on fire , or the maps is full ice (half shield) this shouldnt even effect Frost , and maybe double effect on ember you see what kind of stuff is it now maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Control =/= Immunity She's not a fire elemental, this thread has been over since page 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MyTagForHalo Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So lets say ember gets a resistance to fire and weak to ice. ONE enemy in the entire game uses ice damage, Lech Kril, (Not even ice leaders deal ice damage) so her weakness may not even exist for as often as it will come into play. And now lets make frost resistant to ice (again ONE enemy that uses it) and weak to fire. He is now majorly hurt by high level Grineer (Napalms and Scorches, 2 of what is already the highest damage dealers for the grineer) and is resistant to a SINGLE enemy. How is that in any way balanced between the two? Or look at volt. You can count the lightning attacks on one hand. And what would he be weak to? Toxic? Which comes from a faction that is pure melee and wouldn't be able to do anything... So Volts resistances/weaknesses would be useless across the board. Same would be true with Saryn, just the reverse. So in the current system it would look like this: -Ember: HUGE buff, no drawback -Frost: HUGE NERF, no benefit -Volt: No change -Saryn: No change And what about the rest of the frames? EG The non-elemental frames that make up the vast majority of the choices. What would you give them to balance it out? Need to add map hazards as well, If you were to pick frost in a invasion, or any game that gets invaded, frost would immediately have a slight disadvantage due to fire everywhere. And lets say ember takes a hit when on a ice map. Now she is at a disadvantage. So basically you are punishing both of them at random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezren Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This has also been a major issue with me, elemental frames should have resistances to their base elementals. As OP said, Frost/cold, Ember/heat, Saryn/poison, etc. It doesn't have to be immunity, but some resistance makes sense. Sure, fire burns but Ember's HEAD IS ON FIRE FFS lol Let's just throw balance out the window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deristel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 don't see any issue with that.Slapping me with a 10% more shield debuff on ember don't change anything,she has no shield to begin with*Shrugs* and this balance thing it's ridiculus.If we wanna talk about balance,they should delete rhino:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Simba_KillzZ Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 i think ember playes who use fireball just dont want to be damaged by their own ability especially after an accelerant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsAndTheSea Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I dont think there is a game out there that is after realism first, gameplay second. Every game is unrealistic in it's own way. Your logic is illogical because it would cause a player to suddenly have a disadvantage or a advantage depending on what frame they decided to play. im just gonna go ahead and assume you were talking about the OP, since the latter is exactly what he is asking for also, Fireball doesnt damage ember anymore, and it hasnt for a long time, the OP is just asking for arbitrary buffs/debuffs based on the elements of the warframe, because it "fits the lore", without proposing any actual way to balance implementing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiqalicious Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I'm a big supporter of tweaking the game so that elemental frames have a certain degree of immunity to the element that they represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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