GTG3000 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I guess their level could be based off the mission level. Basing them off players level would be fitting, but they'd have to have some minimal cap for each mission they appear in, so there wouldn't be any possibility of meeting an 'elite squad' that is easier to beat than usual mooks around, if you take a low-level warframe and go to a high-level mission. I'm not sure about matching player count, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actyr Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I can dig it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I can dig it High five? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 I guess their level could be based off the mission level. Basing them off players level would be fitting, but they'd have to have some minimal cap for each mission they appear in, so there wouldn't be any possibility of meeting an 'elite squad' that is easier to beat than usual mooks around, if you take a low-level warframe and go to a high-level mission. I'm not sure about matching player count, though. Definitely based off of mission level, but AI priorities based on player mission stats, such that the best performing player is going to be targetted more so than the others. What would be interesting is that their load out and abilities become more different in later level and higher difficulty missions; early on, they'd have MK-1 Bratons, but later Boltors, Shotguns, Gorgons, various swords, weapons with different mods on it. Their AI needs them to be able to run away into cover as opposed to full on ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK. I'd say the lore can fit their reason for having mods via the "artifact" archeology expeditions I keep on hearing the Grineer having. I don't really see them in a solo mission viable. Either their numbers are exactly the amount of Tenno in the squad or their difficulty (weapon load outs, mod, and HP) scales. The latter is simple, one to one combat, but the later might overwhelm a squad of two Tenno via ability spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 They could be escaable, if you can't deal with them... Or leave that to the singleplayer... My thought would be "guaranteed good drop" to motivate the players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 They could be escaable, if you can't deal with them... Or leave that to the singleplayer... My thought would be "guaranteed good drop" to motivate the players... Eh, defending a squad mate while he/she unlocks the doors should work if the squad wants to escape. But once again, I'd keep this idea to multiplayer missions. It would be interesting if they are guaranteed to drop some of the mods they have equipped; i.e. somehow one of them has that one freeze mod for their melee weapon they have a chance to drop that among their other mods. Fight-able mini booster packs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurokoOkami Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Yes, all great ideas! Question, now is whether they will end up as bosses or mini-bosses. I personally would like to see a mix of both to give us a nice "flora and fauna" in each mission. Here are my suggestions for bosses/mini-bossesExcavator (Corpus) Strictly found in minig missions that involve said faction. Like any good corpus, it will be shield heavy. Im thinking and exo-suit like the lifter in alien just with mining equipment attached to it. After all we did "infiltrate" a mining facility, only natural a couple of those and some hawty non-combatant is sitting in one hoping to show a tenno up. I would think melee oriented or very short range projectiles. Undead (infested) Contrary to the name it can die it just "seems" like it doesnt. This enemy is comprised of many smaller ones with no actual core. As it takes damage (wish i could say sectional damage), the parts fall off and continue the attack until its just a shambling pool of flesh trying to rip you out of your warframe. The more parts that fall off, the faster it gets, thus a shotty user should beware as (if sectional damage is true), a shot will simply change the battle too fast as now a large single entity turns into many fast moving tiny ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Yes, all great ideas! Question, now is whether they will end up as bosses or mini-bosses. I personally would like to see a mix of both to give us a nice "flora and fauna" in each mission. Here are my suggestions for bosses/mini-bosses Excavator (Corpus) Strictly found in minig missions that involve said faction. Like any good corpus, it will be shield heavy. Im thinking and exo-suit like the lifter in alien just with mining equipment attached to it. After all we did "infiltrate" a mining facility, only natural a couple of those and some hawty non-combatant is sitting in one hoping to show a tenno up. I would think melee oriented or very short range projectiles. Undead (infested) Contrary to the name it can die it just "seems" like it doesnt. This enemy is comprised of many smaller ones with no actual core. As it takes damage (wish i could say sectional damage), the parts fall off and continue the attack until its just a shambling pool of flesh trying to rip you out of your warframe. The more parts that fall off, the faster it gets, thus a shotty user should beware as (if sectional damage is true), a shot will simply change the battle too fast as now a large single entity turns into many fast moving tiny ones. Argh more off-topicness! Unacceptable! --- I would want to see them considered as mini bosses as opposed to bosses, and you're fighting a number at once for a possible reward! When you say "flora and fauna" I'm thinking: "It's not required to kill everything in a mission", in the sense that some enemies are just too ammo, health, and time expensive to kill but represent some aspect of the map area. Taking that Excavator idea, as well as the Grineer mining machines, they'd be very tough, might hit hard, but they're not built for combat at all as they're slow. Players could spend time in a room clearing enemies while avoiding those. They're there to catch an unwary Tenno in the middle of a fight. Edited April 14, 2013 by DSMK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt17 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Champions pack from Diablo? Mmm, tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Argh more off-topicness! Unacceptable! --- I would want to see them considered as mini bosses as opposed to bosses, and you're fighting a number at once for a possible reward! When you say "flora and fauna" I'm thinking: "It's not required to kill everything in a mission", in the sense that some enemies are just too ammo, health, and time expensive to kill but represent some aspect of the map area. Taking that Excavator idea, as well as the Grineer mining machines, they'd be very tough, might hit hard, but they're not built for combat at all as they're slow. Players could spend time in a room clearing enemies while avoiding those. They're there to catch an unwary Tenno in the middle of a fight. Yeah, mini-bosses are the way to go... I wonder if they'd be allowed to appear on defence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewofDoom Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Elite Grineer units would be a great thing to have. But better than that, why not have the when a Grinner Commander is present, the intelligence of the grunts goes up and start working more as a group rather than individuals. If the Commander dies, the AI reverts back to dumb. My idea for elite units of Corpus would be to actually use Hyena packs that are mentioned in the lore but never seen in packs. They prolly should be nerfed from the actual boss Hyena (ie no grenade attack and less health and shield), but use a lot smarter AI and put their numbers to good use. They even should retreat once their numbers start to be few and regroup up and attack at a later point of the mission. Maybe surprise you at the exit or maybe just a minute after their retreat. Gotta keep the players unsuspecting. (Although in the end I would rather see fewer in number but smarter enemies overall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashx Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 It would be greay if they added more mini bosses like this. Loved the idea. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 They avoided questions about them on the stream, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithgare Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 You could have the AI attack as a squad of four, but act in two pairs. Marine 1 and 2 would be paired with 3 and 4 being paired. The pairs would have a marine a marine with a defensive/supportive ability while the other would have a offensive ability. Say your team starts the fight focusing one person. The A.I. would do the same to your team attempting to single them out with a pull/swap with one of the defensive marines while the two offensive focus that player. Now when the marine the team is focusing is being attacked and badly harmed, the marine that is paired with them changes priority to save his paired partner via pull/swap/etc or more liberal use of his own ability if he's the offensive saving the defensive. If the focused marine isn't able to be saved before say he's at 25% the other defensive marine will attempt to step in and swap/pull/etc that marine. Just an idea of how to make the marines act more as a squad than just as "Hey lets all run in at the same time and attack stuff" mentality :/ I'm not sure how difficult the scripting for that would actually be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Yeah, mini-bosses are the way to go... I wonder if they'd be allowed to appear on defence... Probably on the 'not' side, I can't help but see that they're going to be fairly distracting from the other mooks shooting the defense target; how long will it take for a full squad of average players to kill a Grineer AT Squad? @Ithgare: Good ideas. I'm thinking designated roles for each member of the squad (based on abilities and mods) as well as a single squad AI puppet master. They don't need to be paired; I assume they'll remain close enough together such that the rest of the squad is there for each other. So, if one guy gets pinned down by fire, the squad AI will have a priority to either get that marine out via pull/switch teleport or have the tank/attacker prioritize getting to the Tenno(es?) harassing that one marine; basically based on who has what ability and which ability/guy is best for stopping that marine from getting killed.The marine in trouble would focus on just running out of danger. This guy does that, is he in trouble? Yes: Get another guy on the job No: Get the other guys to do something productive to killing all the Tenno in the area I've also mentioned the use of a limited amount of items to 'float' the survival of members in the squad as well. Should I assume that the Grineer AT squad can be reinforced/supported by vanilla marines? Edited April 15, 2013 by DSMK2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithgare Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 @DSMK2 I would think a squad would improve the AI of other grineer or maybe cause other grineer to focus on flanking if the tile they are in allows. I would think a 3-4 second stasis that locks a player down and makes them immune to all affects would be a good defensive ability to have for one of the squad. Even slowing down damage can make a big difference. Possibly it locks down the person dealing the most damage to the marine. A shield recharge pulse from the commander would be another good ability for a commander if the tenno are spreading damage more evenly. P.S. These types of threads are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 Pretty much... ALL THE IDEAS! --- Remember, each squad member has Warframe abilities. Imagine one elite marine in trouble, in response, they get a guy equipped with Radial Blast to delay or kill the attacking Tenno with an AoE blast. I want to avoid having one guy the be leader; course they can still benefit from having the other Grineer mooks around. I don't think their AI needs to be improved with a AT squad around; they have numbers and the fact that the AT squad is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFkenny Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 It would be pretty hard to tune the AT squad for a Solo run. Imagine having to face off against that team by yourself... *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithgare Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 It would be pretty hard to tune the AT squad for a Solo run. Imagine having to face off against that team by yourself... *shudder* Thats a simple fix of having the game tweaked for scaling. Maybe only run into one of the squad or none of them at all. This would again promote team play which is, in my opinion, what this game is all about! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I'm thinking that such squad/miniboss should be unbeatable singlehandedly. Yes, that is a bit unfair to the solo players, but I personaly wouldn't want to get rushers, who beat them singlehandedly. Also, no one eevr replied about interuptable 'hold' ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSMK2 Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 I've intended the idea for multiplayer missions when a squad has more than one player in it. Solo-wise; a single elite enemy might suffice, like the armed large attack osprey idea discussed earlier. Hm... What happens if somehow 3/4s of the squad leaves in the middle of an AT squad encounter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Then you run away like crazy and hope they don't catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashx Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I've intended the idea for multiplayer missions when a squad has more than one player in it. Solo-wise; a single elite enemy might suffice, like the armed large attack osprey idea discussed earlier. Hm... What happens if somehow 3/4s of the squad leaves in the middle of an AT squad encounter? Call your megazords. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordofHaven Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 What if one of the support Grineer had trinity's link ability allowing them to focus fire and heal at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG3000 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Two letters. OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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