LoGicMoTion Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This is my opinion and my opinion only Ash to me should be the starter frame, Don't get me wrong I love ash to death but, Loki just has so much more advantage over him almost in every aspect. I think these two should be switched Loki is an advanced frame and prowess and synergy is far superior than ash. I don't think this has been argued before but, its just come to my attention. I feel like this change would be better but I could be wrong. Dicuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aka_Miso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) brb gotta grab that thread edit: back. read this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:309702. *walks off* Edited March 27, 2014 by Sasoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123Olympian Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Loki. Yet this warframe should be for still marked advance, less health, durability, and I think armor and modding is harder. More stealthy, even if Ash throws the stars, Loki is silent, even stopping gun fire. Edited March 27, 2014 by 123Olympian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renathy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Loki, because the other two starters are already damage-dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlchemistMute Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 That's actually quite an agreeable idea, to be honest. Ash is more durable and safer to use. His cloak does not last as long, but it staggers nearby enemies and costs less energy. Also, Blade Storm provides invincibility. Meanwhile, Loki needs to be properly modded to work well. His ultimate ability is just a debuff, and his cloak costs more energy than Ash's. A new player would have troubled giving Loki the right mods. So, maybe, Loki's place as a starter could be switched with Ash. He feels more safe for a new player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidPunch Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Loki is there for a reason, he severs his purpose there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Loki, because the other two starters are already damage-dealers.This.Loki is there because he provides a different role entirely. I keep seeing "But he's hard to use!" as a reason for him to not be a starter. Maybe you personally don't want your early game to be challenging, but that's no reason to ruin it for those who do. Don't like hard mode? Current system has you covered. There are two other perfectly valid starter frames already. Just pick one of them instead of ousting the one whose playstyle you don't enjoy. Edited March 27, 2014 by SortaRandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Why why why why why why why do you people always bring Ash up as the replacement for Loki? Ash encroaches upon Excal's territory since both are damage frames. Hell, so is Mag. The last thing the starting line-up needs is to become three frames that can be played in basically the same way. The starting choices are supposed to give radically different choices. Allowing for players with different play style preferences to find one that fits it to some degree. Yeah, Ash and Loki both have a teleport and invisibility skill. I know. But that's basically where the similarities disappear. Even in those powers they differ. Loki having an emphasis on avoiding conflict (longer invisibility, but no 'oh S***' element to it) and utility, while Ash emphasizes conflict. Him being 'hard to use' is no reason to remove him. And you guys keep trying to use his description against him BUT his description does not say 'he is for advanced users'. It says he is desired by advanced players, that means that he scales well. If Loki get's swapped for Ash, excal needs to be swapped for another frame. Excal should get swapped with Oberon. If Ash doesn't get brought into the starting line-up, Excal and Loki should remain but (IMO) mag should probably get swapped for banshee. Edit: Just so we're clear, this response wasn't just aimed at the people in this thread. It is also aimed at the myriad of other people who have suggested this over the time I have been in the forums. Edited March 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoGicMoTion Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ash would still be a great choice for a starter he has more survivability over loki ofcourse. His moves and powers can be tweaked to anyone playstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Loki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Ash would still be a great choice for a starter he has more survivability over loki ofcourse. His moves and powers can be tweaked to anyone playstyle Show me an Ash utility build. Now show me one that is actually effective. If ability independant survivability was the sole reason for a frame to be a starter, all the current choices would need to be removed and Valkyr, Rhino, and Frost should be added in their place. Edited March 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTechno Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Loki is better because of duration if Ash duration was the same was Loki, I believe Ash would win. If agree with me just hit that vote button ;3 Edited March 27, 2014 by SuperTechno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renathy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ash would still be a great choice for a starter he has more survivability over loki You're not playing Loki correctly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratch Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This is my opinion and my opinion only Ash to me should be the starter frame, Don't get me wrong I love ash to death but, Loki just has so much more advantage over him almost in every aspect. I think these two should be switched Loki is an advanced frame and prowess and synergy is far superior than ash. I don't think this has been argued before but, its just come to my attention. I feel like this change would be better but I could be wrong. Dicuss? I agree Ash should switch places with Loki as a starter frame. The fact that Loki has no offensive abilities can put-off new players. Ash has high base health and shields that is more suited for inexperienced players. Ash has a nice appearance and awesome looking ultimate, "cool factor" is very important when creating people's first impressions. This has nothing with what frame is better. It's simply a question which frame is more approachable by new fanbase and it is clearly Ash in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) The fact that Loki has no offensive abilities can put-off new players. The description is quite clear when making your selection (Unless they've changed it) "Loki is for advanced players who want to control the battle field" I picked Mag for that exact reason. (No offensive abilities) Edited March 27, 2014 by Archistopheles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoGicMoTion Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 You're not playing Loki correctly then. Im playing him correct i promise. but an unmodded loki is worse than an unmodded ash new players won't have mods like Constitution, Continuity and Narrow minded (maxed) or will they have strecth and other rare mods at the beginning. so in my perspective yes ash has more survivability over loki. armor rating and health being better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Because the starting Warframe pick is your difficulty setting for your learning curve through the starting systems and early game : EASY : Mag MEDIUM : Excalibur HARD : Loki Still waiting for an European Extreme Warframe (those who played MGS knows what I'm talking about) Edited March 27, 2014 by Wiegraf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackram Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Neither. Rhino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renathy Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Im playing him correct i promise. but an unmodded loki is worse than an unmodded ash new players won't have mods like Constitution, Continuity and Narrow minded (maxed) or will they have strecth and other rare mods at the beginning. so in my perspective yes ash has more survivability over loki. armor rating and health being better You're still not playing him correctly, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratch Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) The description is quite clear when making your selection (Unless they've changed it) "Loki is for advanced players who want to control the battle field" I picked Mag for that exact reason. (No offensive abilities) I believe it is more of a matter that each of the starter frames fits into a certain archetype for new players to choose from. Mag-mage Excalibur-warrior Ash/Loki-rouge Now the question is which frame is easier to master and is more approachable, Ash is a clear choice. Edited March 27, 2014 by CatScratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) rouge Now the question is which frame is easier to master and is more approachable, Ash is a clear choice. And that's exactly why he should be earned and not given out for free. Also: lawl, rogue. Edited March 27, 2014 by Archistopheles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratch Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 And that's exactly why he should be earned and not given out for free. Also: lawl, rogue. Haha rouge I respectfully disagree, frames that are hard to play/learn/master shouldn't be starter frames for simple reason of not putting-off new players. Loki was my starter frame pre-u7 and even now is one of my most played frames, but in the same way I know many people who quit warframe especially because early game is too hard and they fought Loki was too hard and that overall gameplay experience was unfair to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I agree Ash should switch places with Loki as a starter frame. The fact that Loki has no offensive abilities can put-off new players. Ash has high base health and shields that is more suited for inexperienced players. Ash has a nice appearance and awesome looking ultimate, "cool factor" is very important when creating people's first impressions. This has nothing with what frame is better. It's simply a question which frame is more approachable by new fanbase and it is clearly Ash in my opinion. Not having an offensive ability is precisely why Loki should remain a starter. He (unlike Ash) does not encroach upon Excalibur's territory. Why does having higher shields and health give him more of a reason to be a starter than Loki? If raw survivability is the key factor, Rhino should be a starter, so should Valkyr, and Frost. 'cool factor' is subjective. I don't like how Ash looks, I prefer Loki's appearance. Haha rouge I respectfully disagree, frames that are hard to play/learn/master shouldn't be starter frames for simple reason of not putting-off new players. Loki was my starter frame pre-u7 and even now is one of my most played frames, but in the same way I know many people who quit warframe especially because early game is too hard and they fought Loki was too hard and that overall gameplay experience was unfair to them. I have played a level 0 Loki four times. One was my first Loki, the second was my new loki (had to sell the first one since I ran out of slots), the third was the second Loki being forma'd and the fourth a new Loki I built so I could forma it completely different (still haven't gotten around to that). Of those four times, I played the entire exerience as a no/low-mod newbie three times. The forma'd play-through was the first time I had access to good mods. Loki's base abilities are more than usable. I have yet to meet a person who completely quit warframe just because they thought Loki was too hard. Most of the new loki players I see tough it out (but are rather open in their complaining). I met one person who started a new account because he/she didn't like Loki and he went back to that other account when he/she saw me playing mine. The only change I think should be made to the starting experience, is that players be given a chance to play through the tutorial as any/all of the frames. That way they aren't completely clueless when they pick their starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTechno Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 or we could remove Mag and put Volt like the old days :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) I respectfully disagree, frames that are hard to play/learn/master shouldn't be starter frames for simple reason of not putting-off new players. This is what all new players see when they hover over Loki as a starter frame: "Desired by advanced players, Loki offers a variety of specialized reconfiguring abilities. The creativity of Loki's powers allows players to master the battlefield through manipulation." Keyword: "Advanced Players" Edited March 27, 2014 by Archistopheles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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