Is Heavy Cal Really Mandatory ? I Don't Get It...

[Katiushka]

Hi Tennos,


I'm really confused by this tendancy everyone seems to have to put Heavy Cal on Boltor Prime.

I REALLY don't understand why anyone would want to change the effective range of the Boltor Prime, which is pretty decent, into a shotgun like one.

Ok it adds damages but, HELL, how do you manage the -40%+ accuracy. Doesn't it transform the gun in a horrible sprayer ?


Please illuminate me, because so far I think High Voltage is so @(*()$ far superior to Heavy Cal on this particular gun.

My build so far:


Only missing high voltage. But I don't see why in the world I would want Heavy Cal on this one.

Enlight me wise brothers.

 

[Tveoh]

Honestly  I only put heavy cal on weapons I can afford the accurcy loss on..  Like... the penta..  Orgis.. etc.     And bows.  don't see much accuarcy loss even at -40%, when using multishot on it too.  at least one arrow is always right on target.. and when both are...  ouch time >;3

[Trouvo]

I do not have a heavy cal nor a boltor myself, but a couple clan mates use it as well and it seems to make no visible accuracy difference, perhaps it has something to do with being a physical projectile like arrows are as opposed to bullets like my soma

[Dark5eiD]

i have a 5 forma build. i have a full heavy cal on it. my boltor single shots ( bursts ) decently accurate. no problem head shoting inside 30m. only time it gets hard is if enemy is running laterally because of projectile speed gets put into the equation. this gun does not turn into a shot gun. like i said i run around t3's single shoting inside 30m and when a swarm comes i can hold the trigger down and cut the grass. if you put a heavy cal on a build that cannot one shot, then it becomes a hassle.

Edited March 28, 2014 by dirtyvinny

[Katiushka]

Well, I might give it a try one day, I'll buy one and level it anyway for my Penta and Ogris. Might as well try for some games on my Boltor.

But hell, it doesn't appeal me AT ALL on paper.

[HollowFrame]

It's a personal thing. Some manage to compensate for the lost accuracy, some can't. It is really up to you.

No point in putting a +% damage into a gun which always miss. Right? But if you can in a way make sure it hits, then it's a good thing.

Again, I say it is preference. I won't say you are wrong if you don't put heavy cal into something.

Edit: Except for ignis. It is a must on Ignis.. And Penta. :P

Edited March 28, 2014 by HollowFrame

[Dark5eiD]

It's a personal thing. Some manage to compensate for the lost accuracy, some can't. It is really up to you.

No point in putting a +% damage into a gun which always miss. Right? But if you can in a way make sure it hits, then it's a good thing.

Again, I say it is preference. I won't say you are wrong if you don't put heavy cal into something.

exactly !...

[Deidaku]

Bows afford accuray loss????

 

I though they were likes snipers

[DaftMeat]

Depends on the rank of the mod and the weapon in question.

 

On a Flux or Synapse, the accuracy loss at max rank HC is negligable to the added damage boost,

 

On the Ogris, a max rank HC can shoot at your feet and kill you instantly.

 

On most automatic weapons, it's fine for medium-to-close- range, but makes long range fights difficult.

[Katiushka]

Yeah, that's my main concern, I'm really into medium to long range fighting often and I'd be so mad to lose in this area.

Thanks for the input everyone !

[Dark5eiD]

Bows afford accuray loss????

 

I though they were likes snipers

i dont know if its just me, but when i use paris prime with full heavy cal the only accuracy loss i notice is on my secondary arrow from split chamber. seems to me my original arrow being shoot is going where it is supposed to. the secondary can be out immensely 

[Darzk]

Boltor, even the Prime, is pretty terrible at long range fighting due to the projectile travel time, so if its gonna be bad at range regardless might as well make it pointless at range but better close up.

 

I don't like HCal on Bows, I can really tell the difference. Then again I'm the guy sniping shield drones from 60-70m away :D

[Katiushka]

I find the Boltor pretty efficient from a distance. You just have to compensate travel time by anticipating the movement of the ennemy.

No trouble on that. I guess Heavy Cal just doesn't suit my playstyle on Boltor.

[BrotherIcarus]

The actual accuracy loss is not as much as it may seem on paper. Don't knock it till you try it.

[Moe372]

The actual accuracy loss is not as much as it may seem on paper. Don't knock it till you try it.

This. I have a max heavy cal on my boltor prime, the accuracy loss honestly isn't that bad. You can still use it at long ranges, it's just hard to get headshots. But then again, with the travel time, how are you going to get headshots at long range? To me, I don't see how you wouldn't use it.

 

Also, I took shred off my build, didn't like the fire rate increase. Here's an example of my build: http://goo.gl/4Mh0G5

(Not in that order, I usually have corrosive + cold. Just swap the polarities.) It's not that hard to deal with the accuracy loss, just with the sheer amount of damage it's doing.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Mathracer1

[bowmaster095]

It's like "high risks give better reward"

[Dark5eiD]

This. I have a max heavy cal on my boltor prime, the accuracy loss honestly isn't that bad. You can still use it at long ranges, it's just hard to get headshots. But then again, with the travel time, how are you going to get headshots at long range? To me, I don't see how you wouldn't use it.

 

Also, I took shred off my build, didn't like the fire rate increase. Here's an example of my build: http://goo.gl/4Mh0G5

(Not in that order, I usually have corrosive + cold. Just swap the polarities.) It's not that hard to deal with the accuracy loss, just with the sheer amount of damage it's doing.

i got same build but with shred in. fire rate doesnt bother me, i actualy prefer it so that when i do need the dps i got it. i just tap the mouse to kill 98% of enemies, cant give up shooting the enemies that hide behinde walls and etc.

[Bulletmachine]

The accuracy loss is very manageable with split chamber. You can still impale Grineer across the room.

 

 

20.1 Accuracy is still more than other weapons have.

[Dark5eiD]

^ this is the build i have been hearing a lot of people doing. a lot of people are liking the blast for the stun and knock down. i prefer for a void build adding the 120% status and 120% corrosive. why would i want to stun them if i can kill them? i realize you end up getting 300 more damage over both blast and corrosive. but corrosive damage will be more effective in void against heavy gunners plus 120% more chance to proc. id really like to see something like this tested.

[Bulletmachine]

If your +120% chance to proc would be a flat bonus then your build would certainly be a better one, as it stands both +60% proc add up to 39.2% chance to proc per shot.

 

Still better than my 19% but most high tier enemies will be dead with a short spray and the blast is nice to give you a breather for reloading.

 

I think it comes down to preference, as with most in Warframe.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Bulletmachine

[Dark5eiD]

If your +120% chance to proc would be a flat bonus then your build would certainly be a better one, as it stands both +60% proc add up to 39.2% chance to proc per shot.

 

Still better than my 19% but most high tier enemies will be dead with a short spray and the blast is nice to give you a breather for reloading.

 

I think it comes down to preference, as with most in Warframe.

i can see this in high level t3 survivals where you can no longer take down a heavy gunner in less than 2 secs and there are multiple heavy gunners and other misc around. but for me this is when you mp or rhino stomp etc 75% of the room dies to get your self a breather. like you said, most of warframe is preferrence. everyones game styles are different. but from a technical perspective i would really like to know which build would take down a t3 heavy gunner quicker...

[Katiushka]

i can see this in high level t3 survivals where you can no longer take down a heavy gunner in less than 2 secs and there are multiple heavy gunners and other misc around. but for me this is when you mp or rhino stomp etc 75% of the room dies to get your self a breather. like you said, most of warframe is preferrence. everyones game styles are different. but from a technical perspective i would really like to know which build would take down a t3 heavy gunner quicker...

I'm kindy interested in this too.

[rapt0rman]

Well, if you're worried about taking out JUST the heavy gunners quicker, then just get your corrosive damage as high as possible (both electric, and both toxic mods) for a whopping 1,323 corrosive damage per shot. Though my go-to elements for the void are corrosive + cold.

Edited March 28, 2014 by rapt0rman

[Dark5eiD]

Well, if you're worried about taking out JUST the heavy gunners quicker, then just get your corrosive damage as high as possible (both electric, and both toxic mods) for a whopping 1,416 corrosive damage per shot. Though my go-to elements for the void are corrosive + cold.

thats the whole argument... there are 2 builds both have these mods full...serration,split chamber,heavy cal, shred. how the 2 differ is my build i went with full infected,storm bringer, malignant and hich voltage. http://goo.gl/HJs57X   this gives you 1323.54 corrosive and 37.44 status chance.

 

the other build http://goo.gl/ygdEuK would give you 794.12 for both blast and corrosive with status chance at 18.1

 

there are alot of variables here. if you add the blast / corrosive combo vs the straigh corrosive the damage is more but i dont think you can compare them like this because blast has lower effect than corrosive, plus your taking your status chance in half.

 

these are both excellent builds but which is better for heavy gunners?

Edited March 28, 2014 by dirtyvinny

[rapt0rman]

thats the whole argument... there are 2 builds both have these mods full...serration,split chamber,heavy cal, shred. how the 2 differ is my build i went with full infected,storm bringer, malignant and hich voltage. http://goo.gl/HJs57X   this gives you 1323.54 corrosive and 37.44 status chance.

 

the other build http://goo.gl/ygdEuK would give you 794.12 for both blast and corrosive with status chance at 18.1

 

there are alot of variables here. if you add the blast / corrosive combo vs the straigh corrosive the damage is more but i dont think you can compare them like this because blast has lower effect than corrosive, plus your taking your status chance in half.

 

these are both excellent builds but which is better for heavy gunners?

Well the blast+corrosive is only more damage then the pure corrosive BEFORE taking enemy resistances into account. Corrosive does +75% and blast does -25% for ferrite armor, so it would be:

 

2316.195 corrosive

V.S.

1389.17 corrosive + 595.59 blast = 1984.76 total

 

But in the end I still prefer some type of utility over pure damage.

Edited March 28, 2014 by rapt0rman

[Darzk]

Corrosive proc chance is useful against high level gunners only in a pug.

In preforms you've usually got 2-3 CP auras up *(or you should) so the proc isnt as important, just go for straight damage.

22% status per bolt is ~42% status/ammo which is in the neighbourhood of ~21% corrosive proc/ammo.

Which is 4.75 ammo / corrosive proc. So you've dealt ~9k (before modifiers) damage before you even see your first corrosive proc.

In addition, both Puncture and Corrosive damage already ignore a portion of Ferrite armor, so the benefit from Corrosive procs is really limited anyways.

Basically, the proc rate isn't high enough to justify losing damage for status chance, and the innate puncture on the weapon already ignores 50% of Ferrite armor, so the corrosive proc is only half as effective compared to impact or slash based weapons.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Darzk