De Has Lied To To Us!

[dashashou]

recently Letter 13 locked a thread of des-lies-about-equal-drop-chances/ which was sadly to say nonconstructive  and just a bit wrong titled  but his last line got to me  - 

"Calling the developers liars and saying that they're bad at communicating doesn't really facilitate constructive discussion. "

 

DE has lied to us in the past . They are also bad at communicating  or at least making us feel listened to .  and voicing these complaints are both important and valid , plus it's not agents forum rule 1b ) if we  keep this constructive  by  pointing out DE 's foobars.  so with out further adieu -  

 

The Lies that DE has told that stick out most prominently 

 

For me ,  it was - 

 

That raids where the most unpopular  mission type in the game so they  where removed - Raids where great ! everyone i knew at the time loved them .   they made us feel like pirate ninjas ! but we where rushing them too fast so changed . 

 

That DE hates the rainbow build builds - the upgrading from Dmg  1.0 to Dmg  2.0  basically ment that every weapon is rainbow built  requiring at least 3 of the 4 Elemental  types !

 

 

If we  and keep it constructive and point out the fall- shorts , after all " Constructive feedback is encouraged and key to us improving the game." -forum rule 1 b

 

so what are the lies / fall shorts that stick out in your  mind ?  

Edited March 29, 2014 by Ravel7

[Trouvo]

 

For me ,  it was - 

 

That raids where the most unpopular  in the game so where removing - Raids where great ! everyone i knew at the time loved them .   they made us feel like pirate ninjas ! but we where rushing them too fast so changed . 

 

That DE hates the rainbow build builds - the upgrading from Dmg  1.0 to Dmg  2.0  basically ment that every weapon is rainbow built  requiring at least 3 of the 4 Elemental  types !

 

to the first one, a small amount of people in comparison does not equate to the whole, there are over 3million warframe players now....some people, myself included just thought they were "meh" and a lot of people just didnt like them and wanted something better

 

to the second one, the old DMG1.0 rainbow build was having all the elements and they all proc'd 100% of the time, there was no such thing as status chance beforehand, and now there are more elemental types(using combo'd elements) and status chance that would apply these for the proc's, that is what they wanted to change was the status chance it was making things to static without any dynamic to the way you would mod a weapon, before all you needed was fire, electric and cold damage and you could kill everything very easily, now you will have a much better chance if you change your elemental loadout to counter your enemies, like corrosive for grineer, magnetic for corpus, etc.  Its no longer 1 build to slay them all and in the darkness Proc them.

 

 

edit: Oh yeah and the drop table, its RNG, you cant get more fair than random dice rolls, that just comes down to luck

Edited March 29, 2014 by Trouvo

[VentiGlondi]

The thing you pointed out about raids is entirely your opinion.

 

Damage 2 didn't change elemental stacking - it gave us more variety in elemental builds. Cause you know... previously it was just a single build for everything.

Edited March 29, 2014 by VentiGlondi

[Brahmastra]

The whole raid missions being removed was kinda weird indeed.

Other than that the whole drop table stuff should say enough.

[Zagrax]

I don't think they really intend to -lie- to us, I think the internal development structure means not everything is communicated properly and least of all to the players. My thoughts on this post:

 

- I don't recall them saying raids were unpopular, only that they were indeed being used as the primary rush method for mods and credits. It was quick, easy, and not very mechanic heavy, with the only opportunity for failure being your own personal death

 

- They said they wanted to do away with rainbow builds, and I feel like they've been diminished, even though it happens that they are still the easiest way to gain paper dps on weapons, not EVERY weapon requires them now, as well as I feel like many weapons have been brought out of obscurity, having niche roles and not being totally useless, that being said, if you want to do 1 hour long ODD defenses, rainbow is still the way to go, but the game is only balanced up to what you'll encounter on pluto and void 3s, and rainbow is -not- required.

 

The one thing I feel though, that DE has been ignoring the players on for a long time now is over saturation of mods and the lack of mod spots on frames/weapons/etc, seeing as usually 6/8 are usually used just to add more damage, and precludes being able to add fun utility mods like magazine increases, reload buffs, puncture, etc.

[Towermice]

They are also bad at communicating  or at least making us feel listened to . 

Stopped reading right there.

[Mampara]

I find this hard to read, at least try to use grammar, I know it might be hard but honestly you're not getting you're point across if people get fed up trying to decipher the first sentence.

[_Rue_]

i think "constructive" means that you have to provide possible solutions or at least help the subject get there.

[Deidaku]

Raids lacked something: I may have a solution to that

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/198156-game-mode-concept-theft/

[MDRLOz]

I feel calling the Developers liars directly was the issue. That is making a strong assumption that they meant to mislead you.

 

Now I feel every player could probably list a few things that they feel DE could improve on or not enjoy the way DE handled some things.

 

However those are not lies. They are just grievances you have with some of their information.

 

- Raid itself was a pretty simple mode and needed more. I did actually enjoy raid when it appeared as a bonus objective. That worked nicely. Shame they removed that. However capture missions are pretty identical to raid so I don't miss raid.

- Damage 2.0 is a much better then damage 1.0 with 100% procing elemental attacks (100% Armour piercing Electrifed Flaming Ice bullets?). Imo it still needs work, as the elemental damage trumps the actual base damage of the weapon. However we do get things like crit builds, status builds and fire rate builds now. Its getting better.

[Admiral_Nicksalot]

Psshh. Stop complaining, DE is trying to do their best to keep us happy.

[Trouvo]

Psshh. Stop complaining, DE is trying to do their best to keep us happy.

exactly and there are a lot of us to keep happy....i do not envy that in the slightest lol

[BETAOPTICS]

Yes I know. It is somewhat concerning. I and DERebecca had a recent clashing where I got my posts deleted from questioning their methods and a pre-warning, though we later came into good agreement because both were ready to listen to the other side. That being said, there indeed is some issues on communication and honesty and sometimes it feels like the freedom of speech does not apply on the forums.

Whether or not his attitude was uncalled for, is another thing but I think that telling the truth as it is should be allowed. To me, it does not matter if you say it straight or dress the same thing with different words because it still remains the same thing, just more clear and straight to the point.

That being said, the lying part is somewhat vague since DERebecca mentioned in our conversation that they changed their mind a bit which sometimes is the case so calling them liars based on that is incorrect. However, it also is their job to communicate that this is the case, which frankly hasn't been done in the past by DE and it should be clearly mentioned that they changed their mind. They shouldn't expect their fans to be able to know and realize it on their own.

Edited March 29, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[Fo0otsteps]

Rainbow build means having ALL elemental on your gun. Can you show us your rainbow build for dmg 2.0 before calling DE liars?

The raid removal wasn't a lie either. 

[Volt_Cruelerz]

recently Letter 13 locked a thread of des-lies-about-equal-drop-chances/ which was sadly to say nonconstructive  and just a bit wrong titled  but his last line got to me  - 

"Calling the developers liars and saying that they're bad at communicating doesn't really facilitate constructive discussion. "

 

DE has lied to us in the past . They are also bad at communicating  or at least making us feel listened to .  and voicing these complaints are both important and valid , plus it's not agents forum rule 1b ) if we  keep this constructive  by  pointing out DE 's foobars.  so with out further adieu -  

 

The Lies that DE has told that stick out most prominently 

 

For me ,  it was - 

 

That raids where the most unpopular  mission type in the game so they  where removed - Raids where great ! everyone i knew at the time loved them .   they made us feel like pirate ninjas ! but we where rushing them too fast so changed . 

 

That DE hates the rainbow build builds - the upgrading from Dmg  1.0 to Dmg  2.0  basically ment that every weapon is rainbow built  requiring at least 3 of the 4 Elemental  types !

 

 

If we  and keep it constructive and point out the fall- shorts , after all " Constructive feedback is encouraged and key to us improving the game." -forum rule 1 b

 

so what are the lies / fall shorts that stick out in your  mind ?  

Raids: umm... no.  They said that they were removing them because they weren't terribly popular (I'd assume in terms of missions per day) and they were functionally very similar to sabotage.  It was a redundancy issue.  Not a lie.

 

Rainbow Builds: I don't see how this  is a common misconception, but it is...  Damage 2.0 didn't try to make players use fewer elements.  Rainbow builds were absurd because one bullet would burn (which at the time was a stun), freeze (slow), and electrocute (stun).  Seeing as how Freezing electric fire is a bit, well, absurd, they created combo elements.  Not a lie.

 

The only direct lie that DE has made that I can recall off-hand (aside from drop table dillution, but that's a hard issue to solve and I don't really call the wait a lie) was the exclusivity of Frost Prime.  Officially, that fiasco falls under the category of "miscommunication" according to DE.  To be honest though, I think it was a case of DE not being used to having to censor themselves.  Players will pick apart everything developers say to an absurd degree.  My guess is that they just weren't used to restraining themselves appropriately.  Was it a lie, yes.  But do I think that DE did so with intent to deceive us?  No.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[c_man_ninja_gun]

Bad troll is bad.

[Davoodoo]

I cant say these were lies.

 

It is known fact that defense, survival and mob def are still most popular game mode for veteran players due to how much exp they give. This basically means that other game modes are less played and since raid capture and sabotage were nearly identical raids could be considered as unpopular and removed.

 

They havent lied about rainbow builds, they just havent changed mods with dmg2.0 so we still use highest dmg build aka rainbow build, they said that dmg2.0 with remove armor ignore problem and it did, theres no armor ignore anymore. 

 

Bad decisions arent lies.

[Dogoframe]

DE may have the best intentions but sometimes they do try to "explain" things and end up making a mess of it. Drop tables before obfuscation of data? That was a lie right there. Removal of Gorgon and Boar from game due to their style clashing with current game design. Then Boar gets Primed and Gorgon gets Wraithed. They still have the same style that supposedly make them clash enough with the game so that they had to be removed.

 

It may have been many things, but the non-sensical explanation leaves too much room for guesswork, and this is the internet.

[Archistopheles]

Raids where great ! everyone i knew at the time loved them .

 

Everyone I knew hated them, and I have more friends than you.

[Letter13]

i think "constructive" means that you have to provide possible solutions or at least help the subject get there.

I feel calling the Developers liars directly was the issue.

These hit the nail on the head. The issue is that calling the developers liars isn't in keeping with Rule 1b of the Community Rules and Guidelines.

 

Additionally, constructive feedback is objective feedback that doesn't involve making disrespectful or hurtful remarks to those around you (developers included). It's also feedback that provides what you believe to be a potential solution.

 

An example of poor, non-constructive feedback: "X/Y/Z is bad, you should feel bad, you devs are liars"

 

An example of good, constructive feedback: "I think X/Y/Z isn't good. I think it would be prudent for you (the devs) to address this issue. I think it can be fixed by altering A/B/C or X/Y/Z to [insert solution here]"