Azamagon's Warframe Rebalancing - Valkyr

[Azamagon]

This is the eighth thread from my new series of Warframe rebalancing threads. This time it's gonna be about Valkyr. I have already done rebalancing for each Warframe (wether it is up to date or still in my head :P), most of it written down in here: https://forums.warfr...second-edition/ (Note: That thread got archived, so I can no longer edit it)

 

However, as huge and thorough threads like that often gets ignored, I thought of posting each one individually so they (hopefully) get seen. Valkyr needs a retouch to fit more in line with her intended style, making her more like a Berserker, rather than just a health-tank.

 

Stats:

The stats of Valkyr are not fitting at all for a Berserker. Currently she has these stats:

Shields 50

Health 100

Armor 600

Speed 1,1

 

My proposal would be these:

 

Version 1:

Keep her current stats, but increase her Speed to 1,2

 

Version 2:

Shields 75

Health 200

Armor 50 to 65

Speed 1,2

 

Version 1 - This little speedboost is how I would change her stats if (and only if) the armor she has is not supposed to be ACTUAL armor, but more a representation of her just having a very high pain treshold.

Version 2 - This is more in line with how a Berserker is usually depicted: Low/nonexistant armor, but still with lots of health and very agile. However, as has been pointed out, this would make her rather weak in combat when she is not using her abilities.

 

Due to the version 1 fitting better with her in-your-face melee style (and people pointing out the flaws of version 2), I will go with version 1!

 

EDIT: Extra note here; Valkyr (and Hydroid too) has 150 Stamina, rather than 80 Stamina like most other Warframes. Imo ALL other Warframes should get 150 Stamina as well.

 

Overall theme:

Berserker. The theme can definitely be noticed (with a cool feline twist to it), but the stats definitely need a changing more in line with my suggestion above to fit more with how a Berserker is usually depicted. For her abilities, the rage of the Berserker is somewhat there, at least audibly, but the POWER of saif rage is not truly felt imo.

 

Abilities:

Her abilities synergize quite well, but too much of her power relies on Hysteria almost entirely. Also, Hysteria makes her feel more like a tank than a Berserker, which is supposed to be on the brink of death, UTILIZING that near-death feeling to become more powerful in combat. Thrive in the pain of death of others and also from the pain felt from her own wounds. So, obviously, some changes are needed.

 

- Paralysis -

- Rage Slash -

This skill remains mostly intact, but made more powerful and more visually fitting. Here are the changes:

* Visually, a sphere of blades could be projected quickly around Valkyr upon cast (hence the ability's namechange). This is to visualize better that she is actually using her shields as a form of raging weapon. Valkyr being kind of feline-based, lots of "slashes" would be highly fitting imo.

* Changed skillposition with Ripline (Rage Slash is #1, Ripline is #3)

* Energycost is increased to 25 (up from 5)

* Stun duration on enemies is doubled

* The shielddrain remains, and the formula is almost completely intact: I'd just increase the "shielddrain > damage" multiplier in the formula by 50% (so it hits 50% harder, while still draining the same amount of shields it does now) AND give it an additional 50/100/150/200 basedamage when cast, unrelated to the multiplier-formula. Also, the damagetype of the ability is changed to SLASH, instead of Impact.

* Note: The damage done by Rage Slash is eligible damage towards the lifesteal-effect on Warcry (read more there)!

Power Strength - Increases damage (both the shieldformula damage and the base damage) (New for basedamage)
Power Range - Increases aoe radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases stun duration (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, with no limit to how many enemies can be stunned at once! Affecting an enemy already stunned will have its stunduration refreshed!

 

- Warcry -

* Energycost is reduced to 50 energy (down from 75)

* No longer increases armor (this is to make her slightly less durable, which is a GOOD thing for the Hysteria changes)

* Still debuffs enemies' speed and increases ally melee attack speed. However, the melee bonus is rescaled from 15/20/25/50% up to 20/30/40/50%

* Warcry now provides you with the "melee damage=healing", instead of Hysteria doing so. Healing provided is equal to 2/3/4/5% of melee damage done (up from 1/2/4/5%). Note: Due to this healing bonus being on Warcry, it also means you provide this effect for your allies!

* Note: Damage done from not only the Hysteria claws and melee weapons count for the lifesteal, her Rage Slash and Ripline should also count as eligible damage for the lifesteal!

Power Strength - Increases melee speed bonus and enemy speed debuff (Same as now)
Power Range - Increases aoe radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases effect duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the buffs on Valkyr and her allies + with no limit to how many enemies can be debuffed at once!

 

Question: Should Power Strength increase the healing bonus as well? If so, then I'd lower the base numbers to 1/2/3/4%

 

- Ripline -

* Energycost reduced to 15 (down from 25)

* When you drag yourself to a position, any enemy that gets in the way of Valkyr, is knocked down.

* Likewise, when Valkyr drags an enemy towards her, if that enemy collides with any other enemy along the way, they are also knocked down

* While Valkyr is dragging an enemy target towards her, she is no longer frozen in place while doing so, she should still be able to move meanwhile.

* If Valkyr hits an ally with Ripline, Valkyr drags herself to the ally, rather than pulling the ally towards Valkyr (Reduces trolling).

* Hitting an enemy with Ripline also puts a minor debuff on it: Melee damage done towards that target is increased by 15/25/35/50% for 5 seconds.

* Increasing the range for the ability (by ranking it up or using Power Range mods) SHOULD increase the pull strength for Valkyr herself (aka, it should make her able to pull herself further). Currently doing so ONLY increases the cast range against enemies, nothing else.

* Note: The damage done by Ripline is eligible damage towards the lifesteal-effect on Warcry (read more there)!

Power Strength - Increases damage done and the potency of the melee debuff (New for melee debuff)
Power Range - Increases casting range (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases melee debuff duration (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, there is no limit to how many enemies can be debuffed at once (and you should still of course be able to "Spiderman" around)

 

- Hysteria -

* Hysteria no longer grants Valkyr conditional invulnerability. Instead, Valkyr cannot be reduced below 1 health. She is also completely immune to all status effects (including knockdowns etc) during Hysteria.

* Why the above? Well, any healthdamage taken while in Hysteria could increase her melee damage done! (More to those numbers further down)

* As mentioned in Warcry, Hysteria no longer grants "melee damage done = healing done", but Warcry does so instead.

* Instead, Hysteria now provides Valkyr with some passive health regeneration. Say, 1/2/3/4 health per second. On top of the health regen, a futher idea I had (to make it a tankier ability and less reliant on Warcry) is that she could heal 2/3/4/5% of her max health for each enemy that she kills. Would that be too good perhaps?

* Hysteria could be changed with how the claws, attacks and damage work:

1) While Hysteria is active, you can use the Claws OR your equipped melee weapon! Quick-attacks (Default key: E) controls the claws, while your regular attacks (Default keys: Mousebuttons) controls your equipped melee weapon!

2) While in Hysteria, the total damage of your both your claws and your equipped melee weapons is increased by 1,25x / 1,4x / 1,6x / 1,75x

3) The Claws don't get more damage to them from your melee weapon, they only have base damage once again. Base values of the Claws are:

a) 100 of each physical damage (total of 300)

b) 30% critical chance with 2.0x crit multiplier.

c) Each clawattack projects a shortrange energy-shockwave (visually already there), which does 50% of the direct claw's damage, hits ALL enemies struck by the shockwave and staggers all enemies hit! (Note: Thus, an enemy hit by the Claws will be hit by both the Claws AND the Shockwave!)

d) Should no longer hover in place while attacking, the attacks should be very fluent and smooth

e) Notes: Doing these things above allows Hysteria to have both good base damage (the claws) AND also allows it to scale (your equipped melee). Even with your own melee weapon outscaling the claws, the claws can still provide utility for your melee combat (with the shockwaves providing semiranged multitarget staggering).

* On top of all that, any healthdamage that Valkyr receives during Hysteria, increases Valkyr's melee damage done! The numbers for that though, I dunno. But let's start by suggesting this: For each 10 healthdamage Valkyr receives during Hysteria, Valkyr gains a 0,5 / 1 / 1,5 / 2% total melee damage bonus, for the remainder of Hysteria! This effect obviously stacks (No cap?).

Example number: 100 damage taken (at Hysteria rank 4) would thus provide her with 20% more total melee damage done!

(Note: Damage taken while Valkyr is at 1 health doesn't count, it has to be REAL health lost)

* Hysteria can be cancelled by activating the ability again mid-duration. A minimum duration of 2 seconds must pass before you can deactivate it though (so you don't accidentally deactivate it when for example spamming the button while waiting for Energy). If cancelled manually, you can't activate it again unless 2 seconds pass as well.

 

Power Strength - Increases the health regeneration, the melee damagemultiplier and the damage-taken-to-damage-done-multiplier (New for the health regen and the health-to-damage conversion thing)

Power Range - Increases claw shockwave range (New!)
Power Duration - Increases effect duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

I dunno, due to the pseudo-invincibility, it might be far too strong to simply have have this refreshable at any point. However, I'd consider this ok:

* Make it cancellable at any time (the ability must pass 2 seconds minimum before it's deactivatable, to prevent accidental cancellation)

* After it has been cancelled manually, (but not from expiring normally) it cannot be reactivated until at least 2 seconds have passed.

 

Question: Should the melee damagemultiplier and/or the damage-taken-to-damage-booster-conversion also increase the damage of Ripline and/or Rage Slash?

 

Look at the increased synergies here:

* Hysteria grants you melee damage bonus, even more so while receiving health damage. The passive health regeneration can help Valkyr regenerate back some health so you can be hurt more to deal even more melee damage!

* Warcry grants her more melee attackspeed and more health through its lifesteal-effect, sustaining and improving Hysteria greatly.

* Ripline provides Valkyr with mobility to get into melee battles faster + increases melee damage done to any target she might hit, further feeding the lifesteal on Warcry. On top of that, the damage done from Ripline counts towards the lifesteal-effect too!

* Rage Slash's stun effect puts enemies in a "blind" status, providing one strike per target with a high melee damagemultiplier (the stealth's current 4x!), the damage done of Rage Slash counts towards the lifesteal-effect on Warcry, the shieldreduction effect allows Valkyr to get faster down to her health to quicker provide more melee damage done from Hysteria, and it can also stun enemies to give some breathing room when the "healthdancing" becomes too dangerous to handle.

 

All of the abilities can stand alone, but used together they can feed eachother in an insanely synergizing loop!

 

So, what can be said about the scalability for Valkyr's abilities now? Let's see:

Rage Slash - Stun + the "hidden" stealth melee multiplier both provide nice scalable effects

Warcry - Melee speed, melee lifesteal and enemy slowdown are all greatly scaling effects as well

Ripline - Mobility is always invaluable, but so is the ragdoll on the main target, the possible knockdown on secondary targets in the way and the brief melee bonus!

Hysteria - Pseudo-invincibility, melee multiplier and staggering claw-shockwaves are all great scalable effects

 

Don't you think that these things really makes her feel more like a true raging BERSERKER! >:)

 

All my Warframe rebalancing threads:

1)

Loki

2) Excalibur

3) Frost

4) Ember

5) Saryn

6) Ash

7) Nekros

8) Valkyr

Edited May 17, 2014 by Azamagon

[VoidPunch]

 

My proposal would be these:

Shields 75

Health 200

Armor 10

Speed 1,2

 

This is too weak to be a Berserker if she is suppose to be in a crowd using melee up close.

 

Her armor needs to be buffed to at least 50 for this. 10 armor and 75 shield will make her drop fast still. Saryn is more of a berserker then this, especially considering how she is a  tank and the massive melee damage boost from contagion.

[immolator1001]

No... No... No....

 

As it sits now Valkyr is perfect for solo players. She can take down incredibly strong enemies with ease and in a one on one fight she is definitely the strongest warframe.

 

And you basically just split hysteria currently between hysteria and warcry which forces players to use this skill.

 

While skills SHOULD have synergy it shouldn't be necessary to use both.

 

Example hysteria and paralysis, right now if you have rage on this combo is great! When in hysteria you can use paralysis to make enemies stand still and beat the crap out of them.

 

If you're thinking "oh but she doesn't have shields now thats bad!" It fine since she had no shields to begin with. And your health is exposed so rage takes effect and lets you use hysteria again and repeat the cycle!

[Azamagon]

This is too weak to be a Berserker if she is suppose to be in a crowd using melee up close.

 

Her armor needs to be buffed to at least 50 for this. 10 armor and 75 shield will make her drop fast still. Saryn is more of a berserker then this, especially considering how she is a  tank and the massive melee damage boost from contagion.

Maybe a slight armor buff could suffice, but not too much either. It doesn't make sense to have high armor in two regards: 1) The Berserker archetype and 2) She VISUALLY has barely any armor!

 

On the other hand, the armorissues could be ignored if the "armor" Valkyr has is supposed to be more of a pain-resistance / toughness than ACTUAL armor. Then I could agreed a bit more on the armor being there.

 

Saryn, on the other hand, is a mess (not a Berserker...). I dunno if DE wants her to be an elusive pseudotank (Stats + Molt) a melee brawler (Stats + Contagion) or a caster (Venom + Miasma).

 

I don't really think everything needs to fit into a traditional class mold, making her a stereotypical Berserker in stats takes away from some of the things that make her more unique. Her armor is incredibly high, and if you consider a Berserker to be a glass cannon, then she's more of an offensive tank. We already have glass cannons in Ember and Nova, but we don't have any frames that are like Valkyr, and her stats factor into that.

I like the idea of giving Paralysis a base damage though, it's already a good debuff but it'd be nice to have it do a little more damage. I like making ripline take less energy, and making it drag her to allies instead of dragging them to her.

The idea to make the damage taken increase the damage given seems like it'd work for another frame, but not Valkyr, but I do like the idea of making her attacks more fluid and smooth, as well as the shockwave. I don't really think Warcry needs to be touched at all without the modifications to Hysteria.

I feel like you have good ideas but you're a little stuck in the idea that she needs to fit into a specific set mold. The ideas you have about a Berserker don't really seem to go with Valkyr too well, and there actually are some Berserker classes in games that do have high health. Valkyr is made to get in close to enemies, and she wouldn't be able to last with her skill set without the stats she has, unlike Ember and Nova who are built to compensate their lack of defense with strong offense. I don't think she's built to be a glass cannon regardless of how you tweak her abilities.

But should she really have high armor, considering she barely has any at all, visually? Besides, aren't the truly tanky and (supposedly) slow units (Frost, Rhino and Saryn) supposed to be the ones with high armor?

 

Besides, she wouldn't be that much of a glasscannon anyway, due to her higher tankstats (Shields + lots of health), Hysteria with its pseudo-invulnerability, and to a lesser extent, Warcry, with its lifesteal effect.

 

And I DID give her more health. 200, instead of 100, at the cost of the armor.

 

Thanks for liking the changes on Paralysis and Ripline though :)

 

And what? Damage-taken-to-damage-given is pretty much a definition for Berserkers, which Valkyr is promoted as. Why would it fit better on anyone else? It couldn't be placed on any other character better than a Berserker!

 

You say she wouldn't last btw, but Hysteria is still granting her pseudo-invincibility + health regen, and Warcry gives her lifesteal on melee attacks. Those can't help her sustaining herself?

 

No... No... No....

 

As it sits now Valkyr is perfect for solo players. She can take down incredibly strong enemies with ease and in a one on one fight she is definitely the strongest warframe.

 

And you basically just split hysteria currently between hysteria and warcry which forces players to use this skill.

 

While skills SHOULD have synergy it shouldn't be necessary to use both.

 

Example hysteria and paralysis, right now if you have rage on this combo is great! When in hysteria you can use paralysis to make enemies stand still and beat the crap out of them.

 

If you're thinking "oh but she doesn't have shields now thats bad!" It fine since she had no shields to begin with. And your health is exposed so rage takes effect and lets you use hysteria again and repeat the cycle!

She would still be very durable. Hysteria would still make her invincible, but just more riskily so (since she probably will be on low / 1 health when it ends). Berserkers are SUPPOSED to be risky to play, while providing extreme amounts of melee damage as well.

And Rage would still be a tremendously great mod for her!

 

And Hysteria can still sustain itself quite a bit with the health regeneration. Maybe it needs boosting though? Warcry only makes Hysteria BETTER, but it is not necessary for Hysteria to work.

 

----

I'm understanding the feedback here though. Maybe I just have to accept the high armor/low health to be explained as being a general TOUGHNESS on her, not ACTUAL armor? Thus, she can have good "tanky" stats and go into melee without too much reliance on her skills. Her skills should just enhance that said toughness and make her more ragey and deadly.

 

*shrug* That said, I might change her stats back a bit. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

 

EDIT: I changed back some of her stats based on your feedback! I believe your conclusions are correct! :) Thanks again!

Edited March 30, 2014 by Azamagon

[Azamagon]

1) Valkyr is one of the more robotic-looking frames, and she was enhanced as far as armor goes through experimentation in the Zanuka project. Also, as far as appearance goes, Frost is wearing a trenchcoat/cloak, so swords would literally go through him if you want to talk on that basis. She at least appears to have armor and robotic augmentation, and has endured torture, so her pain threshold would be high. Read her codex entry.

 

2) She has low enough armor that with her close-up play style her health would be shred through faster than it could regenerate. Health is not more important than armor when you have so little armor that your health is useless. 200 won't even matter at that point.

 

3) And Oberon is promoted as a paladin, paladins usually have more defensive skills and are tankier, but Oberon has nukes and DOT, as well as not being that tanky. Just because they're promoted as something doesn't mean they need to fit into a generic class mold. It doesn't matter what berserkers are supposed to be, as she's not conforming to every thing about them.

 

4) Once Hysteria goes off she'll be low on health, her health will also be taken down faster than it can regenerate with the lack of armor. With the mobs she runs into while Hysteria is on, once it goes down she will be stranded in a mob with low health then die.

 

5) This isn't so much a re-balancing as it's an entire re-work based around your idea of what a berserker should be. If they're going to implement more of a berserker, they should make a different frame rather than ruining the balance Valkyr already has. In fact, have you seen the concept for Typhus? He seems like a better implementation of something like your idea for Hysteria.

1) Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I'll go with the armor being an illustration of her high pain treshold. Thus, I gave back her armor (I editted the OP again, thanks to you guys' feedback after a quick little reflection about your thoughts! Thanks! :))

2) Yup, all I did was making her too reliant on her skills to survive. Thus reverting her armor back.

3) Well, Oberon has his fair share of problems :P Besides, he feels (and looks) more like a Druid anyway... Trinity feels more like the Paladin with Link and Blessing...

4) Yup. Even though a Berserker should be up in their neck with fighting, doesn't mean they should be relying on their abilities too much to survive. They should have passive survivability too.

5) Well, now that I have reverted the armorvalues, I STILL would promote my suggested ideas here. It would just make her plain better, which she really needs to be. I had this weird idea that her stats needed changing for my suggestions (and the image of a Berserker) to make sense. But really, her stats can remain, and yet my suggestions could still work with her current stats!

 

I'll check out Typhus, but I think the Hysteria-changes STILL would fit the Berserker-style of Valkyr.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Azamagon

[LukeAura]

I would go with the kill for health restoration over the passive regeneration in Hysteria. Focus more in there.
More berserkery. Kill to live, then as it gets wittled down again you get the live-to-kill boost. 
I'd also still prefer dropping the armor down and raising the health, but maybe to just average armor 65 with the higher health. Berserkers aren't totally vulnerable, they can wear medium armors but have higher health to make up for it. Caster level armor is too low.


I also definitely like the ripline change turning it in to an AoE knockdown while coming or going. I find the friend dragging to be a little unnecessary, going to them is much better.

Warcry could give gun damage healing potentially. Like a miniHysteria for ranged assaults, health restoration might need to be reduced though, it would help her more in ranged combat where she suffers most but that might be pulling her out of her element too much.

[Azamagon]

I would go with the kill for health restoration over the passive regeneration in Hysteria. Focus more in there.

More berserkery. Kill to live, then as it gets wittled down again you get the live-to-kill boost. 

I'd also still prefer dropping the armor down and raising the health, but maybe to just average armor 65 with the higher health. Berserkers aren't totally vulnerable, they can wear medium armors but have higher health to make up for it. Caster level armor is too low.

I also definitely like the ripline change turning it in to an AoE knockdown while coming or going. I find the friend dragging to be a little unnecessary, going to them is much better.

Warcry could give gun damage healing potentially. Like a miniHysteria for ranged assaults, health restoration might need to be reduced though, it would help her more in ranged combat where she suffers most but that might be pulling her out of her element too much.

Hysteria - Yeah I guess the kill for health is more fitting for sure.

About the whole armor/health-stuff, I have suggested both at least. As you already see, got flamed real fast on that :/ But, in the changed version I guess I will increase the armor a bit, yeah.

 

Ripline - It's just for making it feel ruthless + make it have some aoe-ish use on it. Removing the trolling I thought was kinda obvious :)

 

Warcry - I really don't think the healing should be useable with ranged weapons. Guns currently deal far too much damage for that to be balanced at all.

 

Rage Slash - No comment on that one?

 

Offtopic - Did you see my latest ideas for Excalibur in the last post which I bumped it with? :)

[LukeAura]

Rage Slash - No comment on that one?

 

Offtopic - Did you see my latest ideas for Excalibur in the last post which I bumped it with? :)

Rage Slash is more or less a visual upgrade for Paralysis, and fits way better in to the berserker role. Which is awesome! And sounds completely brutal. But I don't think it really warants much feedback. 

ooh, I'll go take a look then.

And good point about the gun health restoration. I suppose with the melee buff in 2.0 coming it's unnecessary any ways.