What Order Is Damage Applied?

[Derrydino]

If I have a weapon that does 100 Toxin and 100 Magnetic to an enemy corpus. Will the Magnetic energy always be applied first so it can do bonus damage to the shield, and then toxin can do it's bonus damage to the health. How are multi-element projectiles calculated when doing damage against an enemy with 2 different elemental weaknesses/strengths

(Pretend the Toxin damage is actually Fire damage, yet the damage bonus still applies)

Edited March 30, 2014 by Derrydino

[immolator1001]

Toxin damage hits through shields anyways. Other than that I'm not sure.

[Stormandreas]

Toxin damage hits through shields anyways. Other than that I'm not sure.

This is a common misconception. Its the Toxin PROC damage that bypasses shields.

What happens is all the %ages are calculated before the damage is applies (so magnetic like 75% more damage), then all the damage then gets dumped in one go, giving one final number.

[Wallace24]

Toxin damage hits through shields anyways. Other than that I'm not sure.

^this. so it's kind of a moot point in this case

 

but for another enemy and elemental combo, the 100 x and 100 y would be applied separately. so the one that is strong against the enemy will do 150 damage (if it's +50% effective), while the weak one will do maybe 50 damage (if it's -50% effective). don't have a good example off the top of my head

 

other than that, damage is applied to shields first, then health

[EdBazokatone]

In that particular case magnetic would hit the shield and toxin the health simultaneously.

 

With any other elemental damage that is not toxin the damage is applied at the same time, first to shield, then to health.

[immolator1001]

This is a common misconception. Its the Toxin PROC damage that bypasses shields.

What happens is all the %ages are calculated before the damage is applies (so magnetic like 75% more damage), then all the damage then gets dumped in one go, giving one final number.

Then my torid always procs...

[Syzodia]

This is a common misconception. Its the Toxin PROC damage that bypasses shields.

 

Since when?

 

I've done tests with a toxin penta vs no toxin, and the toxin penta has always done damage directly to my health, but that was roughly a month ago.

[Derrydino]

It is true that Toxin will bypass shield. So lets pretend it is Fire damage, and lets say it is 50% effective versus corpus health (instead of Toxin)

An enemy corpus has 150 health/150 shield (Wrong I know, but for the sake of example).

 

If the damage is applied by always using it against it's most effective HP type. I would do Magnetic then Fire. I would do 86 Magnetic damage (Plus 75% damage effectiveness = 150 damage, his shield is destroyed) Then I do 14 damage to his health leaving him with 136. Then Fire will do ~90 Fire damage to his health (+50% effectiveness = 136) leaving 10 Fire damage left

If Fire goes first I would do 100 damage to his shield leaving 50. Then I would do ~28 Magnetic damage to his shield (+75% effectiveness = 49 damage (lets say it's 50). Then the remaining 72 magnetic damage to his health, and the Corpus lives.

If both are calculated before the damage is dealt, and then just done as 1 lump sum. I would do 325 damage total, thus killing the 300 total lifepoint corpus with 25 points to spare. If it is done this way, that means an enemy with even ONE shield would take 75% more damage from ALL of your magnetic damage.

Each way has a different answer, which is right?

Edited March 30, 2014 by Derrydino

[EdBazokatone]

Since when?

 

I've done tests with a toxin penta vs no toxin, and the toxin penta has always done damage directly to my health, but that was roughly a month ago.

 

Since never, he was wrong about this and right about how dmg is calculated later.

[Darzk]

It uses the shield modifiers until the shields are depeleted, and then uses health modifiers.

 

We used to see two separate numbers pop up on a shot that depleted shields. I believe now those are incorporated into a single number popup.

 

In your example of doing 100 mag 100 fire (/w a +50% modifier) to an enemy with 150 shields, you will do ; 150*1.75+150 to shields = 412.5 to shield and 150+150*1.5 = 375 to health. Now we break the shields using the first 150/412.5=36.36% of the damage, and the rest is applied to health, doing .6363*375=238.63 damage to health.

 

Edit: So the number popup should be 389.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Darzk

[Grulos]

This is a common misconception. Its the Toxin PROC damage that bypasses shields.

What happens is all the %ages are calculated before the damage is applies (so magnetic like 75% more damage), then all the damage then gets dumped in one go, giving one final number.

Nope. Toxin damage, as well as Gas procs bypass shields.

[Derrydino]

It uses the shield modifiers until the shields are depeleted, and then uses health modifiers.

 

We used to see two separate numbers pop up on a shot that depleted shields. I believe now those are incorporated into a single number popup.

 

In your example of doing 100 mag 100 fire (/w a +50% modifier) to an enemy with 150 shields, you will do ; 150*1.75+150 to shields = 412.5 to shield and 150+150*1.5 = 375 to health. Now we break the shields using the first 150/412.5=36.36% of the damage, and the rest is applied to health, doing .6363*375=238.63 damage to health.

 

Edit: So the number popup should be 389.

Thank you for the explanation. I understand now. Threw me off at first tho. You say 100 Mag/Fire damage but then do the math for 150 ;)

EDIT: So 100(mag)*1.75(multiplier)+100(fire)= 275(potential dmg to shield)

And then 100(mag)+100(fire)*1.50(multiplier)= 250(potential dmg to health)

When applied to the enemy: 150(shieldHP)/275(pdts)=54.54% of my potential damage.

leaving me with 45.46% potential damage. That is done to health at 250(pdth)*.4546= 113.65 of the corpus's 150 health. So he would live?

 

Edited March 30, 2014 by Derrydino

[Methanoid]

i thought it was the damage over time proc effect that bypasses shields for toxic and that gas procs into a toxic aoe but functions more like the heat dot in that doesnt bypass shields, most functioning via procs in the same way that slash doesnt make you bleed out until that procs or that fire doesnt leave a burning dot unless that procs.

[Derrydino]

i thought it was the damage over time proc effect that bypasses shields for toxic.

The Wiki says that toxin bypasses shields. The proc is a toxin dot that does toxin damage per tick(Which would also bypass shields)

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Basic procedure for figuring this out:

 

Calculate your weapon's total damage to that shield type (regular shield/proto shield). If you have Toxin damage, do not include this here.

 

Calculate your weapon's total damage to the enemy's health type. If you have Toxin damage, do not include this here.

 

If that bullet does more damage to that shield type than the remaining amount of shield

  

    Take (theoretical shield damage - that remaining shield amount) / theoretical shield damage. This is the % damage you have leftover.

 

    Multiply theoretical total damage to enemy's health type by % damage leftover we just found.

 

    If you had Toxin damage, you can now add it back in to your heath damage, unaffected by the % damage.

 

Simply put, if HP = max health damage without toxin, and SH = max shield damage without toxin, RSH = remaining shield, and T = toxin damage to health,

 

Actual health damage dealt = (SH-RSH)/SH * HP + T

 

Now when you shoot the target with a bullet that will take off more than their remaining shield, you will see 1 blue number with the remainder of their shield and 1 white/yellow (normal/crit) number for the remainder of the health (two damage readouts for one bullet).

 

In other words, all your damage is calculated at the same time, except for Toxin damage.

 

I believe that if you have hitscan multishot weapons, the game somehow decides on an order as to which they are applied. So if it only requires one of the bullets to break the shield, it should only have one bullet exhibiting the above effect. Don't quote me on that statement, though.

Edited March 30, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Darzk]

Thank you for the explanation. I understand now. Threw me off at first tho. You say 100 Mag/Fire damage but then do the math for 150 ;)

So he would live?

Correct, I got confused with the shield and hp values as opposed to damage.

 

Yeah, he would live. Makes sense, dealing 200 damage to something with 300 ehp.

 

 

Basic procedure for figuring this out:

Yeah. Toxin always being applied to health makes calculating its effectiveness when paired with other elements strange.

 

The simpler way I do it is calculating time to break shields using everything but the toxin damage, and then using that time to calculate how much damage has been done to health by the toxin.

 

Check out this thread for more info about toxin vs magnetic damage versus corpus units:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/195611-toxin-vs-magnetic-against-corpus-updated-with-tethra/

 

 

Now when you shoot the target with a bullet that will take off more than their remaining shield, you will see 1 blue number with the remainder of their shield and 1 white/yellow (normal/crit) number for the remainder of the health (two damage readouts for one bullet).

Are you totally sure? I know this is the way it used to work, and had thought this was the way it currently works, but been using OSK weapons recently and not noticing two numbers against shielded units, just one damage popup.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Darzk

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

[Darzk]

Huh.

 

OOOH was using toxin damage against Corpus.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Darzk