Change The (You Can Only Level Up Once Every Day)

[Royce_Bracket]

This entire thread is just stupid. This is only an issue if you're under Rank 3 or w/e. Any ranks above that, and unless you have an exp booster and no life whatsoever, you won't be doing Mastery Tests back to back at all. I'd like to see anyone attempt to level 20+ weapons to 30 within 24 hours.

[16Bitman]

Even at max there are only 30 ranks. Not a huge ordeal here man.

currently can only obtain 15, 14 for the regular player base who don't have promotion/founders stuff.

 

Wrong.

The only unobtainable weapon I own is the Gorgon Wraith and this one didn't make the diffrence between 14 and 15.

[Manric]

I would kind of hope you'd take your best stuff, to be ready for anything.

 

I'm not sure about the whole waiting thing. I do think some delay is worthwhile, merely because it averts rage quitting. If you could do the test over and over and over again, and just kept rushing into it without changing what you're doing(a popular trend in video games), you'd keep failing and failing until you rage quit because "OMFG THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE".

 

It's not impossible, you just need a different approach. Having a long cool down between attempts means you have plenty of time to re-think and re-strategize what you did, instead of taking the same exact build and same exact gear for the same exact attempt that will practically never work.

 

It's a tad annoying that it's a whole day, but it makes sure that you're going to think VERY carefully before you try it again, because the penalty for failure is yet-another huge wait.

 

It's not so much about weapons, really. Bring a reasonably accurate range weapon with enough ammo = good enough for any mastery test requiring shooting. Basically any standard rifle type will do.

 

However, when it comes to mastery tests like wall run tests, not having Rush equipped on your Frame and instead having things like Marathon makes them significantly easier. Having Rush on during these tests will straight up launch you into the abyss after your first wall in some cases.

 

But the time punishment I think is fine, players should just be told ahead of time what the test is about.

[izzatuw]

It took over an entire week to make Zephyr, waiting 1 day to rank up is nothing.

Really? It takes months to farm Vauban. Taking a week for Zephyr is nothing. Waiting a day to try again is nothing.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Davoodoo]

making it a 'challenge' or 'punishing' you for failing, is great and all - but it's not like the Mastery Test is explained whatsoever. if you didn't have other players or the internet in general to ask what the tests were, you'd effectively have random Equipment going into the tests, which means for a lot of players (games should be balanced around average players, veterans are not a good example of the average player) these tests result in a fail.

 

most players will accept a loss if they themselves caused it, but lack of information is not only uninteresting, it is not punishing either, just an invisible wall.

 

lack of information is one of the biggest issues. if players knew what they were getting into, the 24hr 'cooldown' probably would rarely get used, because they could prepare themselves atleast.

 

 

but Mastery Tests atm are like selecting a mission Node, with the tooltip not telling you what the mission is(just a bunch of Question Marks), and it is a random faction, random level, random gamemode, random tileset, etc.

hopefully the point is made.

You go into mastery test, you expect that rank0 gear wont let you do it, im mr15, i failed one test because i brought literally rank 0 gear and frame, i havent looked at wiki even once to check what test it will be. 

Only test that might have been hard was target tracking at mr6 and it was nerfred since i last tried it, despite being only 1 so far that required any skill.

No 24h is not a harsh punishment, you failed, you know what to expect, you have 24h to figure out how to beat it next time.

[taiiat]

-snip-

AGAIN. we're all the veterans with knee length beards. OFCOURSE it's easy as piss for us. 

 

why shouldn't Tenno know what they're getting into? this isn't a kidnapping, we don't put a bag over our heads and hop over to the van and say 'take me somewhere'. 

 

the average prospective player, is not an expert at Shooters. even doesn't have that much past experience with them at all. kicking them for not being a veteran of the industry isn't really appropriate if you want that player to become a customer.

[Davoodoo]

AGAIN. we're all the veterans with knee length beards. OFCOURSE it's easy as &!$$ for us. 

 

why shouldn't Tenno know what they're getting into? this isn't a kidnapping, we don't put a bag over our heads and hop over to the van and say 'take me somewhere'. 

 

the average prospective player, is not an expert at Shooters. even doesn't have that much past experience with them at all. kicking them for not being a veteran of the industry isn't really appropriate if you want that player to become a customer.

Since were veterans we havent got awesome mods back then, our best weapons were gorgon braton boltor and hek, we had absolutely no primes.

You dont need to be expert at shooters, all mastery tests are easy enough, ppl fail only because they think they can handle them in unranked gear and go in unprepared.

For them 1 day punishment is imo ideal. They will get time to lvl their gear up and have better chance. If they could run it without cooldown, they would try till they give up and either go on forums to complain how hard they are(when in reality they arent) or go getting exp like they should in the beginning without wasting time on attempts.

 

Dumbing down games might get you a customer but i cant accept that. Its morally wrong.

[HAYABU5A]

the solution is to not suck and just pass the test lol

 

but seriously its just a day, thats not too bad is it ? 24hrs flys by , nothing to sweat over 

[taiiat]

Dumbing down games might get you a customer but i cant accept that. Its morally wrong.

that's why you don't make everything a mystery, and give information. players don't want games to be dumbed down, none of them do (well, some people legitimately seem to want that, but we'll ignore them). the 'cooldown' is acceptable provided you knew what you were getting into(which you don't).

 

just because Lotus says 'you will be tested' blah blah blah, doesn't mean people get that it's important. if a new player is not only not very good at shooters, but also has that unranked or low rank starter gear like they could easily have for a couple planets, how well do you think they'll fare?

what if a prospective player fails every Mastery Test the first time because they had no idea what they were getting into? what if after the first one, they assume the others are similar or the same, and end up crafting and taking Equipment that's even worse for the tests?

it's not much to ask to tell them 'this test will be a timed Exterminate against [Faction]'. 'this test will be a timed freerunning/parkour sequence'. etc - before they get to the test.

 

if you grow up in America, Government standardized testing is talked about a lot in Primary and Secondary schooling. but you never take the tests blind, your cirriculum helps prepare you for it(as well as hopefully teaching you truly useful things if you're attending a good school system / private or semi-private school), and you are even forced to take practice tests before you take the 'real' one. 

what that means, is that you know exactly what you're getting into before you take it 'for real'. 

 

give people the opportunity to learn, and they usually will. keep that opportunity from them, and you may call them stupid forever, but it's not their doing.

[Davoodoo]

that's why you don't make everything a mystery, and give information. players don't want games to be dumbed down, none of them do (well, some people legitimately seem to want that, but we'll ignore them). the 'cooldown' is acceptable provided you knew what you were getting into(which you don't).

 

just because Lotus says 'you will be tested' blah blah blah, doesn't mean people get that it's important. if a new player is not only not very good at shooters, but also has that unranked or low rank starter gear like they could easily have for a couple planets, how well do you think they'll fare?

what if a prospective player fails every Mastery Test the first time because they had no idea what they were getting into? what if after the first one, they assume the others are similar or the same, and end up crafting and taking Equipment that's even worse for the tests?

it's not much to ask to tell them 'this test will be a timed Exterminate against [Faction]'. 'this test will be a timed freerunning/parkour sequence'. etc - before they get to the test.

 

if you grow up in America, Government standardized testing is talked about a lot in Primary and Secondary schooling. but you never take the tests blind, your cirriculum helps prepare you for it(as well as hopefully teaching you truly useful things if you're attending a good school system / private or semi-private school), and you are even forced to take practice tests before you take the 'real' one. 

what that means, is that you know exactly what you're getting into before you take it 'for real'. 

 

give people the opportunity to learn, and they usually will. keep that opportunity from them, and you may call them stupid forever, but it's not their doing.

Giving ppl every bit of info about player next encounter is also dumbing down the game, you expect to be told everything you need to know instead of learning it through trail and error.

Good example of this is again dark souls, when you fog gate you know that there is boss waiting, but you will never know what boss it will be, 0 info about his resistances, moveset, arena. Completely 0 info, yet you learn to prepare beforehand and you learn by trail and error. 

One of attempts to dumb down wow by blizzard was actually giving info about new heroic bosses before they can even be beaten, whole experience of learning the boss and finding proper tactic for them was taken away, now its like "here you have all abilities boss can use, even a set tactic go and kill him."

 

I would never want to take away a great experience which learning by trail and error provides and simply giving them 24h to rethink their mistakes or simply improve is great idea.

 

What you should think when you attempt to do mr test:

"hmm i dont which faction will i take, that ember of mine is bit risky if they have corpus but its still my highest lvl frame and mine unranked loki probably not gonna make it, as for weapons maybe its good idea to put elec on my pistol and toxin on primary this will mean i covered every faction more or less, ok since nothing can surprise me now im gonna try it"

 

What do players think now:

"no info, cooldown too long, i want to get it done now so i can get my lvlup rewards"

 

There must always be consequences to your actions. 24h is fine punishment, no info should also tell you something and doesnt mean you cant prepare. Even if you screw up you will learn something from it and hopefuly wont make same mistake again.

[Aurodar]

I would kind of hope you'd take your best stuff, to be ready for anything.

 

I just failed my Mastery Rank 10 test because of this. Apparently I needed to get 5 slide kills while avoiding falling off of a level - a feat that normally wouldn't prove difficult if not for the fact that my Deathcube was 1 shotting every enemy that spawned before I could react.

[MushrooMars]

TBH I don't mind the wait if you fail. This game has NO failure conditions, and IMHO the only challenge is how much you can mess with other players. I don't have a huge issue with this, I mainly play Warframe to relax after a hard day of school/research, but it's still nice every once and a while to know that if you F*** up, there's a punishment, even if it's temporary.

 

Remember kids: When space ninjas F*** up in real life, the repercussions are almost always permanent.

[DuWryght]

While I have to agree the punishment should remain, they should at least grant you 1 optional practice test. A lot of the tests that people fail have aspects you won't really practice ingame. Sucks taking a test you haven't prepared for.

[taiiat]

Good example of this is again dark souls, when you fog gate you know that there is boss waiting, but you will never know what boss it will be, 0 info about his resistances, moveset, arena. Completely 0 info, yet you learn to prepare beforehand and you learn by trail and error. 

One of attempts to dumb down wow by blizzard was actually giving info about new heroic bosses before they can even be beaten, whole experience of learning the boss and finding proper tactic for them was taken away, now its like "here you have all abilities boss can use, even a set tactic go and kill him."

your example is flawed. if it was a true analogue to Mastery Tests, it wouldn't be going into a boss area - it would be going to a mission.

 

it's a 'special' mission, but you don't know why. you haven't even the slightest idea what you'll be asked to do, it could be just as simple as shooting some dudes in a time limit(which is a Gear Check, and Gear Checks are bad), or it could be required to recite the works of Shakespeare, or it could be a flight simulator, or it could be learning to do gymnastics.

 

all of those possibilities are legit - because you're just told that it's a test. 

 

Dark Souls is telling you it's a boss, which means that you know for starters, it's a fight, one that's intended to be 'hard'(more cinematic and flashy and spectacle than that though), and you already have a pretty good idea of how the enemy will fight, because the word Boss alone translates to past experience of what a Boss is in other games.

 

but even there, what if Dark Souls was your first Video Game ever? your first attempt would basically still be just a guaranteed death to learn what that area is. you might as well cut out some of the iteration time, and show players what they'd learn from that first death, instead of requiring they do it. 

 

cutting down iteration time is a key factor in making challenging games (which Warframe isn't) an educational experience, instead of a distasteful wall.

 

 

and still, your Ember and your Electricity Mod is pretty advanced stuff, and you're STILL using information a veteran knows. you need to stop thinking like someone that is very experienced with Video Games, and instead think like someone who isn't.

and if your opinion is still the same on the subject, you're still thinking like a Veteran. you're still using some previous knowledge and further information about Warframe that an early and some midgame players won't have.

[Davoodoo]

I just failed my Mastery Rank 10 test because of this. Apparently I needed to get 5 slide kills while avoiding falling off of a level - a feat that normally wouldn't prove difficult if not for the fact that my Deathcube was 1 shotting every enemy that spawned before I could react.

You were supposed to just kill them without falling down. No need for sliding.

 

Sure sideobjectives are fun and whatever but thats only thing i would remove from mastery tests.

 

your example is flawed. if it was a true analogue to Mastery Tests, it wouldn't be going into a boss area - it would be going to a mission.

 

it's a 'special' mission, but you don't know why. you haven't even the slightest idea what you'll be asked to do, it could be just as simple as shooting some dudes in a time limit(which is a Gear Check, and Gear Checks are bad), or it could be required to recite the works of Shakespeare, or it could be a flight simulator, or it could be learning to do gymnastics.

 

all of those possibilities are legit - because you're just told that it's a test. 

 

Dark Souls is telling you it's a boss, which means that you know for starters, it's a fight, one that's intended to be 'hard'(more cinematic and flashy and spectacle than that though), and you already have a pretty good idea of how the enemy will fight, because the word Boss alone translates to past experience of what a Boss is in other games.

 

but even there, what if Dark Souls was your first Video Game ever? your first attempt would basically still be just a guaranteed death to learn what that area is. you might as well cut out some of the iteration time, and show players what they'd learn from that first death, instead of requiring they do it. 

 

cutting down iteration time is a key factor in making challenging games (which Warframe isn't) an educational experience, instead of a distasteful wall.

 

 

and still, your Ember and your Electricity Mod is pretty advanced stuff, and you're STILL using information a veteran knows. you need to stop thinking like someone that is very experienced with Video Games, and instead think like someone who isn't.

and if your opinion is still the same on the subject, you're still thinking like a Veteran. you're still using some previous knowledge and further information about Warframe that an early and some midgame players won't have.

 

Mastery test is special mission same as boss is special enemy.

 

You already know what you will do, everything they will test is part of normal gameplay.

Not much of a gearcheck if you can beat 1-6 tests with starter weapons without any mods.

If you couldnt, then why the game should promote you?? i see no reason. Not skillful enough?? 24h to improve. Not enough gear(which is not needed)?? 24h to get it.

Nothing wrong with that, you prepare accordingly or fail once to get info which will hopefuly make you prepare better(which is also a joke cause enemies are much easier than normal mission)

 

Dark souls doesnt tell you anything, you dont know moveset, you dont know how big arena is, you dont know if there are any additional enemies(capra demon), if there is more than 1 boss(o&s), if mechanics if 1 of the bosses dies(o&s), you dont even get info if you make it easier on yourself(summoning signs for npcs, or tower jump for taurus demon).

All you know when you cross fog gate is that you might die easily and thats what you actually expect for the whole time.

 

No not really, dark souls would be good choice for someones 1st game, it teaches patience, it teaches to observe terrain, it makes it clear that enemies arent designed as training dummies and teaches you to prepare for unknown. Every death in dark souls could be avoided(except 1 which was scripted) and only if you were careful enough it will happen. 

 

Its not advanced stuff, thats what ive been thinking when i was going into a test after mods 2.0 hit(except that i had ap instead of poison then). There was no info on wiki to tell me what test will it be, cause simply there werent enough ppl high enough, i had most basic mods, nothing maxed.

If i was able to pull it off, everyone should, as simple as that, if they cant then they should try harder, nothing should served to them, they should earn it.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Davoodoo

[HansJurgen]

I think this is unreasonable and should be changed.

 

It defeats the point of having a test. That way, you can just do it over and over, trial and error until you pass it.

 

It stops being a challenge if it is no longer fresh and unsurprising, because you get to practice at your leisure.

Edited April 1, 2014 by HansJurgen