The New Player Experience Is...off

[Monolake]

Unfortunately, yes, all the way back in U8. It was the same time the Snipetron was removed with no notice. I thought it was a bad idea at first, but given I had been playing for a while, I already had those guns and didn't care. Getting on a new account, however, shows just how painful it truly is. I wouldn't mind if you could build them with the only resources you have available, but seriously, look at those costs. To a new player, they might as well just be trying to grab for your wallet.

When I started playing (last November) it wasn't even much of a problem  - it wasn't  hard to beat Earth and get to other planets to farm resources for Latron, Burston, Hikkou and other early game weapons. Now you cant even pass Earth unless you get carried.

[Mesyra]

I do go around in mercury very often to help newbies get through missions and get some good exp from the defense and survival mission, but thats about all I can do for them, you dont get any "useful" mods in the low level mercury, I've given quite a few newbies extra serrations and hornet strikes, but even then, I hardly pick up those either :| they need to really sit down, fix the cash shop, and redo a lot of the drop tables.

[Boondorl]

I do go around in mercury very often to help newbies get through missions and get some good exp from the defense and survival mission, but thats about all I can do for them, you dont get any "useful" mods in the low level mercury, I've given quite a few newbies extra serrations and hornet strikes, but even then, I hardly pick up those either :| they need to really sit down, fix the cash shop, and redo a lot of the drop tables.

 

Or completely remove the mod system altogether. theGreatZamboni made a fantastic post about it that still surfaces to the front page to this day. The mod system is incredibly toxic. It's incredibly linear and spams useless choices at you. It doesn't reward you for leveling weapons, it rewards you for being patient enough to put up with its BS. This is not something people want in their action space ninja game.

 

I don't mean to crap on DE here, I'm sure they're all nice people, but to say they're incompetent is an understatement. I have no hope for this game, as these issues should never have existed to begin with. They don't even listen to the community as much as people claim they do. Talking to your community =/= listening to them. A community manager's job is to manage the community. Of course Rebecca and Megan are going to talk to us. Most of the posts from Scott and Steve have simply been "Yep, we haven't learned anything from the last time we made the same mistake. You can guarantee we'll do it again."

 

This game needs a complete overhaul at this point. I'm afraid it's already too late. They can try hard to modify their current system, but this system just doesn't work to begin with. It's doomed to fail. I think it'd be pretty cool to see another indie team take this concept into their own hands, however, using the feedback from this forum.

[Taranis49]

If they make MK1 Braton deal puncture instead of slash damage, everything is okay because infestation doesn't exist anymore on new player experience. We all have to face Grineer first(armored).

 

Sadly, everything's still not okay, even with that change - it's an oversimplification (particularly since puncture does reduced damage against Corpus shields). Fact is, newbies are still gimped because the current mod drop system broke critical mod drops like Serration/Hornet Strike/Point Blank... and ironically the enemies that primarily drop those mods are Infested (in the case of the latter two, the only enemies that drop them are Infested), the enemies their starting kit would do best against.

 

The wall new players are most likely to hit are Eurasia/Lua interception and they're probably going to be stuck there (potentially for days) until a vet carries them. I do exactly that every now and again. Watching guys with Mk-1 Bratons, Latos and Skanas trying to deal with level 18 Eviscerator Leaders is like watching a trainwreck, horrible, but you won't be able to look away. Simply switching damage types ain't going to cut it in that case.

 

They either need ready access to the base damage mods or they need to fix the Earth interception missions (preferably both). To their credit, DE has acknowledged that a newbie's inability to obtain the base damage mods is an issue (though they seem oblivious that the cause is Drops 2.0 and the fact they yanked the Infested from the solar map, and lower-level missions in particular),

 

The difference between a player that's cleared the Earth hurdle and one that hasn't is massive. Stuff that's common as dirt like Nanospores and Control Modules? They drop on the planets after Earth.

 

Sadly, this is the result of a pretty typical run when I help newer players through an interception mission, and I make it a point not to use AoE/ults unless mission success depends on it:

 

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/450665965701526322/52B72FA80921007B9E2185E75A7C4A079A5D7626/ (because the board is still having issues with image extensions) :-/

 

 

Switching damage types ain't gonna fix the underlying problem here. And yeah, while I'd like to think I'm more skilled than the average newbie, I'm also honest enough to admit it largely boils down to the fact that my gear's better - the mission's basically mathematically impossible for a team consisting entirely of newbies to complete. Hell, it's not too uncommon for me to join a session and find the other three team members have already been downed.

 

The newbie experience as a whole needs work. There's no single easy fix.

[dashashou]

 

 

The newbie experience as a whole needs work. There's no single easy fix.

worked  well back in up-7 

[Thelonious]

worked  well back in up-7 

 

You mean, when redirection and vitality were the rarest mods in the whole universe, whereas you could swim in rare mod drops like Focus, Continuity and Multishot?

 

Took them more than a month to fix that...

[MDRLOz]

Or completely remove the mod system altogether. theGreatZamboni made a fantastic post about it that still surfaces to the front page to this day. The mod system is incredibly toxic. It's incredibly linear and spams useless choices at you. It doesn't reward you for leveling weapons, it rewards you for being patient enough to put up with its BS. This is not something people want in their action space ninja game.

The mod system has nothing wrong with it. It is still unfinished ofc but the it is a refreshing and different system to have in such a game. Most other game systems I am tired with but Warframes I still enjoy. The problem is that you do not get a few key essential mods early on. That is real problem with early game. Don't demand the system gets reworked just because getting a few mods is tricky. 

 

 

The wall new players are most likely to hit are Eurasia/Lua interception and they're probably going to be stuck there (potentially for days) until a vet carries them. I do exactly that every now and again. Watching guys with Mk-1 Bratons, Latos and Skanas trying to deal with level 18 Eviscerator Leaders is like watching a trainwreck, horrible, but you won't be able to look away. Simply switching damage types ain't going to cut it in that case.

 

They either need ready access to the base damage mods or they need to fix the Earth interception missions (preferably both). To their credit, DE has acknowledged that a newbie's inability to obtain the base damage mods is an issue (though they seem oblivious that the cause is Drops 2.0 and the fact they yanked the Infested from the solar map, and lower-level missions in particular),

 

The difference between a player that's cleared the Earth hurdle and one that hasn't is massive. Stuff that's common as dirt like Nanospores and Control Modules? They drop on the planets after Earth.

Ok I am sorry to sound a bit forward but your post is the kind that do not appeal to me. Your post screams lack of understanding of the facts of the game. 

 

Firstly The Eurasia problem. You describe low level players going up against lvl 18 eviscerators. Now I will probably go test this tonight but to my knowledge, and the wikis, earth eurasia is listed as a lvl 6-8 level. This is obviously only the starting level of the mobs and the level will increase as the level progresses. If players do only the first round of the Interception they will not encounter such dangerous mobs. If they keep going Ofc the mobs get harder. Then the players fail and need to do the level again as it counts as a mission failure. However those players should never have continued the interception in the first place.If players just do one round of interception it will not be that hard. Once again... I will test tonight. 

 

Next you mention some of the faults DE is oblivious to. Drop 2.0? Agreed, mod distribution needs some work. Removing infested from the star chart? How does that affect new players! Apart from the old "mob invasions" that used to occur it was impossible to meet infested before earth. The majority of their nodes used to be saturn, Jupiter and Eris. So how does removing infested affect new players.... Umm *shrug*. 

 

Nanospores? True these are very hard to obtain before earth but control modules? Do any survival you get a tier 1 void key. Most of these can be soloed even at low level and if you fail? You keep the key so nothing is lost. I am not talking about defence or mobile defence here. However exterminate, capture and survival t1 keys could be done. What resource can you get there? Control modules (lots!) Gallium, Rubedo and alloy plate. 

 

The only resource not available to new players before earth? Orokin cells, Salvage, Nanospores, Neural sensors and Plastids. All of the resource can be gained. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Shackram]

The Missions

 

I'm going to start by saying that most of these missions were done in solo. Solo challenge seems to range from being fair to way too hard, while playing with other people just seems to make the game too easy (barring two missions).

 

DE never got the enemy density for missions right.

 

It's often too few for 4 players but far too much for a solo player (that isn't using a potatoed, well modded weapon and frame) with the endless spawning. Specially bad with how you can clear a room and then enemies start spawning behind you, putting you in a cross fire we're you can find proper cover to restore your shields.

 

At least now you can shut down the alarm to stop the endless spawning, but it still needs to be reworked.

 

 

The issue of early mod drops was also brought up in the devstream, and the dev who addressed it said that "I think we're doing a good job of putting these required mods on common enemies". Really? Then why aren't they dropping for new players?

 

They're deluded.

 

The most common enemy that can drop Serration is the grineer scorpion and i must have killed about 800 before one dropped it, despite being rated as a "common" mod. The first one i got was by being carried to 25 mins in apolodorus. All the other spare ones i have dropped from the Stalker.

 

My first Hornet strike i got when i was halfway to rank 6 and it dropped from a container in the void.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Shackram

[Taranis49]

Ok I am sorry to sound a bit forward but your post is the kind that do not appeal to me. Your post screams lack of understanding of the facts of the game.

 

Firstly The Eurasia problem. You describe low level players going up against lvl 18 eviscerators. Now I will probably go test this tonight but to my knowledge, and the wikis, earth eurasia is listed as a lvl 6-8 level. This is obviously only the starting level of the mobs and the level will increase as the level progresses. If players do only the first round of the Interception they will not encounter such dangerous mobs. If they keep going Ofc the mobs get harder. Then the players fail and need to do the level again as it counts as a mission failure. However those players should never have continued the interception in the first place.If players just do one round of interception it will not be that hard. Once again... I will test tonight.

 

Next you mention some of the faults DE is oblivious to. Drop 2.0? Agreed, mod distribution needs some work. Removing infested from the star chart? How does that affect new players! Apart from the old "mob invasions" that used to occur it was impossible to meet infested before earth. The majority of their nodes used to be saturn, Jupiter and Eris. So how does removing infested affect new players.... Umm *shrug*.

 

Nanospores? True these are very hard to obtain before earth but control modules? Do any survival you get a tier 1 void key. Most of these can be soloed even at low level and if you fail? You keep the key so nothing is lost. I am not talking about defence or mobile defence here. However exterminate, capture and survival t1 keys could be done. What resource can you get there? Control modules (lots!) Gallium, Rubedo and alloy plate.

 

The only resource not available to new players before earth? Orokin cells, Salvage, Nanospores, Neural sensors and Plastids. All of the resource can be gained.

 

You don't want to sound forward, but you basically admit to not playing the missions in question and claim I don't understand the game... right. And yes, I'm talking about the first wave on Eurasia/Lua - I don't continue beyond that when playing with newbies because they're usually happy enough to just be done with it and move on (and I don't blame them).

 

Note the phrasing I used: Leaders, e.g. the Ice, Fire, Energy Leech shmucks? They spawn beyond the listed level of the mission, anywhere from just one or two levels up to ten levels or so beyond what's listed. And Leaders also spawn in ridiculous numbers on Eurasia/Lua. So the listed level's 6 - 8? That means Newbies can expect to run into level 16 - 18 Ice/Fire/Energy Drain/Life Steal Leader variants of Heavy Gunners, Hellions, Eviscerators and Bombards before the first reward is ever offered.

 

The point about Infested's also false. There were dedicated infested-owned nodes on Mercury and Venus prior to Infested being yanked off the solar map (Lares and Cytherean, in particular were Infested nodes) and as I've covered, the bulk of the base damage mods? They drop from infested mobs (Hornet Strike/Point Blank? The only mobs that drop them are Infested). Removing ready access to the infested mobs (in conjunction with Drops 2.0) directly impacts a newbie's ability to get the critical mods those mobs carry.

 

"Do any survival, get a void key", sounds nice and easy, except a.) that information isn't disclosed to new players ingame, b.) keys are only a guaranteed drop at 15 mins, most actual newbies with no damage mods and a low-level Redirection/Vitality ain't gonna last 15 mins in any survival. As noted by the OP, Grineer heavies like Napalms and Bombards force newbies out of the mission prior to that point even on Apollodorus.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Taranis49

[OblivionNecroninja]

The mod system has nothing wrong with it. It is still unfinished ofc but the it is a refreshing and different system to have in such a game. Most other game systems I am tired with but Warframes I still enjoy. The problem is that you do not get a few key essential mods early on. That is real problem with early game. Don't demand the system gets reworked just because getting a few mods is tricky. 

 

 

 

No, you don't get it. A good Mod Systems doesn't HAVEW "key essential mods". You can just put whatever stuff you LIKE on your guns. A better system would bake the "essentials" (in WF's case Damage and Critical mods) into the gun's leveling up and leave the mod points for Cool Fun Stuff. 

 

I do agree with you that the mod system isn't the real problem though. In my opinion that's the rediculious enemy scaling. High level enemies just have numbers SO MUCH BIGGER than normal enemies that it really makes it almost impossible for anything to be balanced against both level 1 and level 40 enemies.

Edited April 2, 2014 by OblivionNecroninja

[Keltik0ne]

worked  well back in up-7 

You and I remember that time period very differently.

[Taranis49]

You and I remember that time period very differently.

 

It was better in some ways, worse in others. The mod drops were usually better (as noted, Serration and the like dropped regularly enough that you could actually level them via fusing duplicates) and the weapon selection available to newbies wasn't as bad since a wider range of stuff was offered for credits. The tools needed to progress were more readily available, if only because you could get them anywhere, from any mob.

 

The downside being the ingame tutorials sucked (or were entirely absent, in the case of stuff like wallrunning/modding): It wasn't uncommon for newbies get stuck in missions in Mercury simply because they didn't know how how to wallrun, ditto for modding - hell, I remember getting Split Chamber from one of my very first missions and then not using it for a couple weeks because the game didn't explain crap and I had no idea what it actually did (hey, we were all newbies once).

 

Long and short, the game atleast gives newbies more of the information they actually need nowadays, but getting the actual stuff they need to progress is a much bigger crapshoot. Prior, the reverse was typically the case.

[Makemap]

Sadly, everything's still not okay, even with that change - it's an oversimplification (particularly since puncture does reduced damage against Corpus shields). Fact is, newbies are still gimped because the current mod drop system broke critical mod drops like Serration/Hornet Strike/Point Blank... and ironically the enemies that primarily drop those mods are Infested (in the case of the latter two, the only enemies that drop them are Infested), the enemies their starting kit would do best against.

 

The wall new players are most likely to hit are Eurasia/Lua interception and they're probably going to be stuck there (potentially for days) until a vet carries them. I do exactly that every now and again. Watching guys with Mk-1 Bratons, Latos and Skanas trying to deal with level 18 Eviscerator Leaders is like watching a trainwreck, horrible, but you won't be able to look away. Simply switching damage types ain't going to cut it in that case.

 

They either need ready access to the base damage mods or they need to fix the Earth interception missions (preferably both). To their credit, DE has acknowledged that a newbie's inability to obtain the base damage mods is an issue (though they seem oblivious that the cause is Drops 2.0 and the fact they yanked the Infested from the solar map, and lower-level missions in particular),

 

The difference between a player that's cleared the Earth hurdle and one that hasn't is massive. Stuff that's common as dirt like Nanospores and Control Modules? They drop on the planets after Earth.

 

Sadly, this is the result of a pretty typical run when I help newer players through an interception mission, and I make it a point not to use AoE/ults unless mission success depends on it:

 

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/450665965701526322/52B72FA80921007B9E2185E75A7C4A079A5D7626/ (because the board is still having issues with image extensions) :-/

 

 

Switching damage types ain't gonna fix the underlying problem here. And yeah, while I'd like to think I'm more skilled than the average newbie, I'm also honest enough to admit it largely boils down to the fact that my gear's better - the mission's basically mathematically impossible for a team consisting entirely of newbies to complete. Hell, it's not too uncommon for me to join a session and find the other three team members have already been downed.

 

The newbie experience as a whole needs work. There's no single easy fix.

Since the release of interception, I was saying to nerf it a bit. But, they buffed the enemy spawns. I've been telling them there is no need to buff a low level place and they did. Guess what the new players get screwed over by the elite players asking for buffing difficulty. If you want difficulty fix up nightmare mode.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Makemap

[Shermanon]

When I was new, the thing that killed the experience for me is that the game puts a gun in your hand but that gun is useless. Playing online, the game was about hammering skills that massacred entire rooms of enemies at once. I have used several different guns, and I find that is still the case.

 

It was boring, and although my friends keep urging me that it changes, I've completed Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, some of Saturn and half of Phobos. There's no change.

[Taranis49]

No, you don't get it. A good Mod Systems doesn't HAVEW "key essential mods". You can just put whatever stuff you LIKE on your guns. A better system would bake the "essentials" (in WF's case Damage and Critical mods) into the gun's leveling up and leave the mod points for Cool Fun Stuff. 

 

I do agree with you that the mod system isn't the real problem though. In my opinion that's the rediculious enemy scaling. High level enemies just have numbers SO MUCH BIGGER than normal enemies that it really makes it almost impossible for anything to be balanced against both level 1 and level 40 enemies.

 

I've argued for weapons getting passive damage increases as they level myself. Having certain mods be mandatory defeats the entire purpose of them being mods in the first place. What rifle builds use Serration? The answer is all of them.

 

It murders build diversity.

 

When I was new, the thing that killed the experience for me is that the game puts a gun in your hand but that gun is useless. Playing online, the game was about hammering skills that massacred entire rooms of enemies at once. I have used several different guns, and I find that is still the case.

 

It was boring, and although my friends keep urging me that it changes, I've completed Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, some of Saturn and half of Phobos. There's no change.

 

Ironically, that tends to switch at higher levels and what passes for current "end-game" (e.g. high-level defense/survival) - the damage-dealing skills generally don't scale well enough to accomplish much against higher-level enemies unless they also have secondary effects, so you have to rely on your weapon to actually kill stuff in a reasonable timeframe. The two most sought-after frames for high-level, long-duration survival? Trinity and Nekros, and neither one of them has a room-killing ability.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Taranis49

[ThePresident777]

When I started playing in April 2013, mods used to drop all over the place.  The loot tables were simple.  All enemies had the same mod drop table.  It was awesome!  Yet, there were always mods to farm because of the exponential fusion curve and there was no mod sharing or loadout.  So, you could get a basic set of mods for all your Warframes and weapons and sentinels fused to a comfortable level.  But, to get the good stuff maxed took a lot of mods.  I had never played such a system before.  It was refreshing.

 

Then the same old tired RPG ideas started creeping in.  Each enemy had it's own mod drop table.  Missions added to the complication.  Drop tables broke more often.  (Warframe seems to have invented the Broken Drop Tables.)  Once mod sharing was implemented, the good old days as far as mods were concerned were completely over.  And here we are with perpetually broken mod drop tables and rare uncommons, complications and austerity, customer dissatisfaction.

 

Edited April 3, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Shermanon]

I've argued for weapons getting passive damage increases as they level myself. Having certain mods be mandatory defeats the entire purpose of them being mods in the first place. What rifle builds use Serration? The answer is all of them.

 

It murders build diversity.

 

 

Ironically, that tends to switch at higher levels and what passes for current "end-game" (e.g. high-level defense/survival) - the damage-dealing skills generally don't scale well enough to accomplish much against higher-level enemies unless they also have secondary effects, so you have to rely on your weapon to actually kill stuff in a reasonable timeframe. The two most sought-after frames for high-level, long-duration survival? Trinity and Nekros, and neither one of them has a room-killing ability.

That's what I've been made to understand. But for some, who do go by the mission stats to measure their usefulness/relevance, going through most of the game like that is discouraging.

[mpastor]

The only issue with low level play is that it can be difficult for players with below average FPS skills or those not very accustomed to MMO games.  The only way to counter this problem is to dumb down the game.  There are no issues with gun performance or advancement if you put in an effort to learn the game.

 

If as a player, you are not typically one shot killing your foe (or pretty close to that), then you are not doing something right.  It is time to go to you tube and watch a video on how to setup your gun.  Go to the wiki and look at damage bonus vs foe types for damage 2.0.  It's time to learn to aim and hit the head of your target.  Sitting around wondering when your gun is gonna suddenly get better is not going to fix the problem.

 

Mods are relatively inexpensive to buy from other players.  But this is mostly unnecessary.  Find out which you need and then where they drop (see wiki).  Play towards gaining those mods.  Once you are reasonably good at the basic planetary map quests then move over to run Derilick and Tower missions. In one focused weekend of OD and T play, you should be able to completely outfit your frame with an end game capable weapon and end game warframe mods, from which you can start the MMO grind for the uber loot.

 

Outside of dumbing down the game, the only action the developers might want to take is to add AI advisors to the game.  You know, some clown pops up on your screen after a mission and analyses your performance and actions.  They might say, "Hey dummy... I noticed you only had 1 head shot the entire run.  You should practice shooting more and aim for the head."  or  "Wow, are you really going to run another mission of this level without putting an Orokin Catalyst in your weapon?"  or  "Hey, I noticed you were fighting Grineer last mission yet your gun is not setup very well for that.  Why dont you...."

[Neutralred]

Oh hey, someone else who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

- New players can't trade until MR2

- Mods don't drop consistently, and drop rates have been heavily nerfed

- Damage mods drop particularly rarely and the enemies who drop them don't show up early

- Do you really expect players to drop potatoes in every weapon they get when they aren't even getting decent mods to put in them?

 

But barring the last, these were all points made earlier, so it's as if... you didn't even read this thread and just showed up to feed your own ego! Wow! That's totally unexpected!

 

Since you're too lazy to even bother to read the thread you're replying to, I'm not going to bother suggesting starting a fresh account. That'd be far too much effort, clearly. What I am going to suggest is that you don't flaunt your ignorance quite so openly... it's embarrassing.

[mpastor]

Oh hey, someone else who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

- New players can't trade until MR2

- Mods don't drop consistently, and drop rates have been heavily nerfed

- Damage mods drop particularly rarely and the enemies who drop them don't show up early

- Do you really expect players to drop potatoes in every weapon they get when they aren't even getting decent mods to put in them?

 

But barring the last, these were all points made earlier, so it's as if... you didn't even read this thread and just showed up to feed your own ego! Wow! That's totally unexpected!

 

Since you're too lazy to even bother to read the thread you're replying to, I'm not going to bother suggesting starting a fresh account. That'd be far too much effort, clearly. What I am going to suggest is that you don't flaunt your ignorance quite so openly... it's embarrassing.

 

 First off, I started playing a month ago.  I went through this new player thing no problem.  I actually am in a better position to comment on it than you.  I lived it.  You are just some bored wind bag on a *@##$ mission.

 

Your whole thesis revolves around lack of damage drops.  But this is not wholly true.  Since you harp on Grineer there is for pistol puncture and heated charge.  For melee point strike.  For rifle piercing hit and cryo round.  All of these are reasonably easy to get and effective against Grineer.  These mods drop all of the time.  But in addtion to these mods one needs (especially initially) some good old fashion FPS skill and techniques.    

 

Outside of dealing with the G3, I had absolutely no problem as a new player.  I know other new players who also have experience with these types of games too had little problem. And yes I expect a new player to drop a potato in his best weapon and WF.  If they don't then they will perform poorly.  The fact that you seem to advise not to put potatoes in weapons and WF's makes me question your knowledge of the game.  Sure you can save your plat to eventually buy spots but then dont whine about your poor performance.  And though I dont suggest it, there is always the option for the really savvy new players to go to the vault in the Orokin Derilick.

 

So I say to new players.  Get off your butts and put a little research into the game and you too can perform well.  Heck this game has the fastest cradle to end game of any MMO I have ever played.  You can easily average three levels an hour on weapons and WF as a new player. Can the new player experience be hard... yes.  Especially if you expect everything to be handed to you.

Edited April 3, 2014 by [DE]Drew
Edited to conform to the community rules.

[OblivionNecroninja]

OK, great, your new player experience was great. But that's the exception, not the rule. 

[Neutralred]

- snip -

So you're making assumptions about when I started as well? Hey, guess what... I started less than three weeks before you, and I've tried to get quite a few people interested in the game since then. The feedback has been pretty consistent from them - new player experience sucks, and then they go and play something else. This is why I've been on this "personal crusade", as you put it... because I actually want to enjoy a multiplayer game with friends, not play superior being because I can hack it and others can't. My goal's never going to happen until they can enjoy themselves playing.

 

But hey, since you can apparently browse the wiki and call out a couple of mods that drop early on then everything must be great... oh wait. Cryo rounds, which drops off bosses? A 5% mod to a specific damage type that you might not even have on your weapon, generally considered pretty much useless? That's the best you can offer, when the game is balanced around Serration and Hornet Strike? And there's still the issue of even the few damage mods that can drop early on not doing so consistently. Point Strike I'll give you, and pre-Earth enemies don't punish melee like the later-game units do, but melee's still only the reach of your arm plus whatever you're carrying. Hopefully it'll be better after 2.0 comes down the pipe.

 

Nice strawman that you set up there with the potatoes, except that I asked you if you expect a player to put a potato in *every* weapon, as you imply with "Wow, are you really going to run another mission of this level without putting an Orokin Catalyst in your weapon?" Expecting someone to potato everything, especially the early weapons like the Braton, is insane and appaling. You're never going to use the thing again after you get your first upgrade, because the starter weapons are simply statistically poor. Potatoes are for the gear that'll carry you through the starchart and for endgame weapons. Potato a Karak? Sure, great choice! But we're talking about difficulties even getting to the point where the player can attain such things.

[mpastor]

Maybe you should read my comments and follow some of my advice.  It appears from your comments that you don't really understand how damage 2.0 works.  I am sorry your advice lead to your friends having a bad experience.  I honestly cant see how four friends could not tear up the game. But I guess that has to do with their leader's advice.  An average skilled group of four friends with four intro warframes (let alone four well chosen mutually synergistic frames) will have no problems playing (though the learning curve is steep). 

 

If you put cold and puncture on your rifle you will gain this damage and a bonus of 50 and 40% of this respectively against ferrite and alloy grineer opponents. Plus when your weapon procs it will slow your foes.  These are your toughest grineer foes.  It is not necessary to have serration, split shot, and/or void mods on your rifle to perform well at the start.  However, you certainly want to work toward the later.  

 

In addition to this, plan on spending 40000 credits on buying a blue print and building a Burston  Braton.  Starting this new weapon is a good first game day goal.  Don't be a loon. put a potato in it.  And finally.  This forum is filled with lots of nonsense.  I suggest you go to You tube and watch videos that pertain to building and running your WF and weapons systems.    

Edited April 3, 2014 by mpastor

[Shermanon]

Maybe you should read my comments and follow some of my advice.  It appears from your comments that you don't really understand how damage 2.0 works.  I am sorry your game ignorance lead to your friends having a bad experience.  I honestly cant see how four friends could not tear up the game. But I guess that has to do with quality of friends and their leader's advice.

The narcesistic elitism is oozing from this post. It's actually bubbling under the surface of my monitor.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Shermanon

[DoomFruit]

Your whole thesis revolves around lack of damage drops.  But this is not wholly true.  Since you harp on Grineer there is for pistol puncture and heated charge.  For melee point strike.  For rifle piercing hit and cryo round.  All of these are reasonably easy to get and effective against Grineer.  These mods drop all of the time.  But in addtion to these mods one needs (especially initially) some good old fashion FPS skill and techniques.   

Physical damage mods are worthless on weapons that don't already specialise in that damage stat... such as the Lato and Mk-1 Braton. There are only 3 ways to make a non-puncture weapon capable of hurting the Grineer - toxin, radiation or corrosive.

 

About the only mod you can reasonably expect a new player to get is heated charge, which drops from (among other things) Grineer lancers - common and easy enough for low-level players to kill. Stormbringer and Convulsion are ridiculously rare, infected clip is mostly found in the void (good luck finding a level 1 player there) and don't even start on pathogen rounds or fever strike.

 

So without toxic or electric damage for any of their guns (or fire on their rifle), the new players aren't going to get anywhere. Can't craft a Boltor - that's salvage and neurodes that you won't have. No Tetra either - a lack of control modules tends to hamper things.

 

 

EDIT:

If you put cold and puncture on your rifle you will gain this damage and a bonus of 50 and 40% of this respectively against ferrite and alloy grineer opponents. Plus when your weapon procs it will slow your foes.  These are your toughest grineer foes.  It is not necessary to have serration, split shot, and/or void mods on your rifle to perform well at the start.  However, you certainly want to work toward the later. 

Oh yes, cold damage. Now, where can we get that?

 

Cryo rounds:

Shockwave MOA

Vay Hek

Grineer T3 Defense Reward

Kela de Thaym

Lech Kril

Phorid

 

Yeah. The ONLY enemy they will have encountered that drops this are shockwave MOAs. I'll give you a hint - it's not a common drop from them.

 

 

How about Deep Freeze?

Grineer T3 Defense Reward

(probably void containers as well)

 

...nope

 

 

North Wind?

 

MOA

Arid Butcher

Butcher

Frontier Butcher

Grineer T3 Defense Reward

Hyena

 

Butchers and MOAs, then. I've massacred hundreds and I do find myself with a few spare North Winds. So you might be able to harm them... if you stick cold damage on your Skana (which isn't going to do any kind of puncture damage, so forget about ferrite armour) and go hand to hand with knockdown attack napalms and eviscerators that will not miss at close range.

 

Perhaps you should actually think about what you type before you post it.