The New Player Experience Is...off

[Lickity-Split]

  Have a bit of respect and admit your defeat with some dignity.

 

Aaaaaaaaand there it is!

You've said it....

 

You have not come here to give any sort of feedback what so ever, you havnt come to help anyone.

You have come to argue with people (Very badly in a circular motion... It was like watching a piece of crap get flushed down the toilet)

To try and "Win" or "Be Better" on this little ego trip of yours...

 

We are having a discussion... You on the other hand are having an argument.

 

We arnt here to "Win"... We arnt here to try and be "Better" than each other...

We are here to explain a common issue and try find a means to resolve it.

You didnt help one bit, you just wanted to fight with everyone and try "Win".

You wanted this thread to be about You... In the end your Ego betrays your cause... You may now leave.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Lickity-Split

[Lickity-Split]

How exactly do you know?

 

Seriously, Intercepts have been roadblocking players for months now, and the response on the last devstream was "it's an awesome challenge and we're glad new players get to experience it". Except that there's a thread pretty much every day now asking why Intercept is so poorly balanced, so players are clearly not having the same experience.

 

I suspect that the dev team don't even realise it's impossible to craft any frames, any primaries or secondaries, or even any melee weapons other than Orthos, before making it out to Saturn, Mars and Jupiter - Europa or the Void for frames. This because of another comment from the devs' own mouths that they tested Interception with a "gimped build using stuff that a player who played linearly to Earth would have" - meanwhile the heavily-overequipped players of the last Prime Time managed to fail their Intercepts consistently. Yeah, I'd like to know what weapons, frames and mods they expect a player on Earth to have, but I don't expect to ever see this legendary testing loadout. Because if there's anything DE hates, it's having to admit they're wrong.

 

The issue of early mod drops was also brought up in the devstream, and the dev who addressed it said that "I think we're doing a good job of putting these required mods on common enemies". Really? Then why aren't they dropping for new players?

 

Somewhere around U12, the dev team nerfed Lato and AkLato. This amidst consistent complaints that the starter weapons were already extremely poor. Yes, players were likely using the Lato in preference to the MK-1... but that wasn't because the Lato family were OP, it was because of how utterly useless the MK-1 had become after Damage 2.0.

 

None of this points to a dev team that's willing to address the issues. It all points to someone having a vision of balance completely divorced from the reality of new players' experience.

 

So yeah. Tell me more about how you "know" they're working on it. Meanwhile, I'm just happy to see the community doesn't just accept it without comment.

Players are having that experience when higher level guys got back there to get the mod on 15-20 waves... 

 

Other than that anyone who disagrees with this should go do a bunch of missions on Earth before Eurasia and screenshot every person that has figured out how to use chat and asks for help in Eurasia... 

Actually I think I'll make this my mission tonight when I get home.

 

I know I got lucky with some resource drops early on in Saturn/Jupiter so managed to craft some decent gear but otherwise its kinda a nightmare till then...

Okay so we got some Dex Furis recently which are pretty strong and will help a little.

 

Control Modules and Neural Sensors are pretty much impossible to get hold of...

I remember telling someone in my chat how irritated I was that I needed Control Modules for a frame and wasnt anywhere near Europa.

 

It was kinda funny when Prime time failed Intercept yes... But maybe that was a hint.

Hopefully they learned something about ODS last night *coff* More personal Life support drops *coff*

 

By the time I was done with Earth I wasnt even clear on how the mod system worked... And I had someone helping me.

Radiation, Corrosion, Blast... What are were these things ? May need some sort of explanation on how to make these builds.

 

Got to admit that after having go back and level the MK1 too 30 for the mastery it really is terrible...

Dont know how people stick around very long after having to use that gun.

 

 

I think there may be an issue with balancing the lower levels and having it progressively gain difficulty that needs to be fixed.

 

Did anyone else notice that in the last Catalyst alert on Ceres it was level 10-15 but the level 15 Bombards were hitting just as hard as level 30 Bombards ?

[Neutralred]

I think there may be an issue with balancing the lower levels and having it progressively gain difficulty that needs to be fixed.

 

Did anyone else notice that in the last Catalyst alert on Ceres it was level 10-15 but the level 15 Bombards were hitting just as hard as level 30 Bombards ?

Scaling bears mentioning, since it seems like part of Earth's difficulty is that the mobs are basically transplanted from Phobos with a coat of green paint slopped on. Eviscerators particularly have enormously high base stats, and the mechanics - bleed, knockdowns from the fliers - don't scale smoothly at all.

 

If they adjust their stats based on, among other things, where they crop up then it would make things like invasions and alerts for different factions much easier to auto-generate. Might just cause some issues with lower level missions on higher-level planets, though. But it's hard to reconcile the scaling issues at both ends.

 

There was another Gift catalyst alert a couple of weeks ago on Pluto. Wonder if that one also had damage issues? Can't really recall, since I decked my 'frame out in Rambo gear. After all... Pluto.

[Boondorl]

Man, argument really broke out here, didn't it?

 

Another problem that has always existed is how unexplained elements are. A new player will probably think "+15% Cold Damage? What does that even mean?"

 

I think elements need to be much better explained. +% Damage is self-explanatory. Putting on a +% Toxin and +%Electric and having it turn into Corrosive is not.

[Monolake]

 

Another problem that has always existed is how unexplained elements are. A new player will probably think "+15% Cold Damage? What does that even mean?"

 

I think elements need to be much better explained. +% Damage is self-explanatory. Putting on a +% Toxin and +%Electric and having it turn into Corrosive is not.

Nothing is explained, we had to tab to wiki all the time when Damage 2.0 hit. There were some threads about the mess of resistance types and lack of visual clues and logic. And nothing has changed, you still need to check wiki and forums. Or you can do ~500 scans and check codex all the time.

 

Abilities? Nothing in the game explains how they work and what damage they do, not even codex. You have to wiki. Getting good at this game = studying wiki and doing ton of testing for simple things that most of the games put right into the interface.  DE outright hides information, which leads to confuses like people seeing Valk Hysteria doing less damage after the "buff" because no one explained how it got changed.

 

I had two friends who quit this game just after few days because they couldnt understand how everything works and what they had to do to progress and gain power.  Game of confusion it is.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Monolake

[-CM-LittleSnow]

This game has a got a bad new player experience?? I don find it o.O. In fact, I am finding this game more of a challenge rather than being hard... Where will the fun be if a game is so easy to play at the start? It somehow gives me a sense of accomplishment of what I am today and mind you i have only played this game for less than 2 months and I am in end game mode... I will say that it actually defines whether you are a good player or a bad player... and dude, i completed tethra doom with 1.6k ( not very high i know) using a rank 30 excalibur with skarner,lato and a braton... and you are saying its hard to complete mercury?? It is jus a psychological effect you have on yourself as you have already been used to the damage you are able to deal using your main account. So please, do not say the game is hard for new players.

[Xarteros]

Because a small community for what is essentially a coop game makes perfect sense.

 

I believe you have played dumb, grindy Asian PVP games for too long. Warframe isn't one of them.

 

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

[-CM-LittleSnow]

 

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

 

*hi 5* bro, thats what i am trying to say, giving you a upvote. I ever had a dude who had been playing the game for 3months and don even know what the hell a stalker is and idiot activating a life capsule when it we have 90% of oxygen level

[Boondorl]

Nothing is explained, we had to tab to wiki all the time when Damage 2.0 hit. There were some threads about the mess of resistance types and lack of visual clues and logic. And nothing has changed, you still need to check wiki and forums. Or you can do ~500 scans and check codex all the time.

 

Abilities? Nothing in the game explains how they work and what damage they do, not even codex. You have to wiki. Getting good at this game = studying wiki and doing ton of testing for simple things that most of the games put right into the interface.  DE outright hides information, which leads to confuses like people seeing Valk Hysteria doing less damage after the "buff" because no one explained how it got changed.

 

I had two friends who quit this game just after few days because they couldnt understand how everything works and what they had to do to progress and gain power.  Game of confusion it is.

 

Yeah, they should really use the description system they have built into the card more. Instead of just an ability saying "Leveling increases range," it could also say something like "Deals slash damage" or "Deals mixed damage."

 

Elements you should just hover over and see (for instance, Cold Damage) "Extra damage to shields | Slows enemies on proc." Combo system could also use explaining in their tutorial.

[Boondorl]

 

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

 

Wow, this is pretty f*cking elitist. Please, never design video games.

 

Also, maybe you should actually mind what you're doing and who you're playing with. Chances are if they're getting gibbed, they're in the wrong spot to begin with. Maybe instead of calling them noobs, you can actually help them so they don't have to be bad. It's what being a community is actually about.

[Taranis49]

*hi 5* bro, thats what i am trying to say, giving you a upvote. I ever had a dude who had been playing the game for 3months and don even know what the hell a stalker is and idiot activating a life capsule when it we have 90% of oxygen level

 

As said, Nice elitism there.

 

By contrast, some of us don't hold it against newbies that the game doesn't explain stuff. Stalker? Until he spawns (which is entirely based on chance), there's no ingame avenue to even know he exists aside from the "What Stalker?" bundle in the market, nevermind what/who he is.

 

Ditto for stuff like life support: the only ingame avenue provided to know the "ideal" time to activate it is trial and error (hell, prior to the recent line change, the game explicitly tells them to activate it when the mission starts). Wild idea, try informing them: teach a man to fish, and all that.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Taranis49

[mpastor]

 

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

 

Three noobs show.  This is kinda a highly suspect scenario.  Especially since the game tries to match people based on skill level.   Might you not really be saying, if there are not other people to carry me, I can't get through tough defense missions.  IF you are still having trouble with defense no matter the situation, you should not be calling someone else noob.  

[-CM-LittleSnow]

As said, Nice elitism there.

 

By contrast, some of us don't hold it against newbies that the game doesn't explain stuff. Stalker? Until he spawns (which is entirely based on chance), there's no ingame avenue to even know he exists aside from the "What Stalker?" bundle in the market, nevermind what/who he is.

 

Ditto for stuff like life support: the only ingame avenue provided to know the "ideal" time to activate it is trial and error (hell, prior to the recent line change, the game explicitly tells them to activate it when the mission starts). Wild idea, try informing them: teach a man to fish, and all that.

 

Personally, if you are a new player and u do not know stuff, ask and i will be glad to help you.. i do that all the time when people ask for help.. but the fact that they choose to ignore a simple sentence such as "stalker on me, gather" and "activate life support only at 40 or 50%" totally pissed me off. If you don know stuff, at least listen to experienced players.

[AcquisCommunitaire]

 

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

 

There is a simple solution for this. You could buy out Digital Extremes and impose yourself as a director. Then you could obviously do whatever you want with Warframe. Unless that is the case, of course, denying people to this game is utterly ridiculous.

 

Yes, I am a noob, This is probably because I am only mastery rank 12. But from what I gather from playing games and completing them (such as Dark Souls), no one starts off knowing all the in's and out's of a game. It is all about failing and learning from one's mistakes. If you think that everyone has to be a veteran from the first second they start playing, perhaps you're playing the wrong game.

 

 

Three noobs show.  This is kinda a highly suspect scenario.  Especially since the game tries to match people based on skill level.   Might you not really be saying, if there are not other people to carry me, I can't get through tough defense missions.  IF you are still having trouble with defense no matter the situation, you should not be calling someone else noob.  

 

(I am replying in regards to all your posts mpastor, not just the one quoted)

 

If you believe that a little research could get you mods then you're dead wrong. It may or may not be possible to attain all the right mods before playing Eurasia. If you do happen to get serration, hornet strike, etc before you play Eurasia, then you must have been very lucky. I obtained my serration at MR 4, and my hornet strike at MR 5, and all from maps after Earth.

 

As to your suggestion that new players should be able to clear Eurasia easily, if I was in your position, I would surely suggest the following gear to new players:

 

These weapons are all tested in Eurasia and would enable new players to complete it easily.

 

Primary: a potatoed boltor prime with radiation/viral build - because new players are so obviously able to farm the void (and the ridiculous drop rate in T3 MD) for all the required parts and obtain all the mods required.

 

Secondary: A potatoed embolist with a corrosive build to kill those pesky close range enemies - because new players are obviously at least MR8 and can make clan weapons.

 

Melee: A potatoed dual zoren - zorencoptor. It is also so obvious that new players would be able to easily complete this mission by zorencoptoring through the map.

 

Frame: A potatoed Rhino/rhino prime - this is definitely the frame to choose. What better is there than to use a max power efficiency build in Eurasia. Oh, and to do this in style it is recommended that rhino prime is used because rhino just doesn't make it. This is also easily accessible to new players because farming in T3 survival for over 40 minutes is just second nature to them.

Edited April 5, 2014 by AcquisCommunitaire

[AcquisCommunitaire]

This game has a got a bad new player experience?? I don find it o.O. In fact, I am finding this game more of a challenge rather than being hard... Where will the fun be if a game is so easy to play at the start? It somehow gives me a sense of accomplishment of what I am today and mind you i have only played this game for less than 2 months and I am in end game mode... I will say that it actually defines whether you are a good player or a bad player... and dude, i completed tethra doom with 1.6k ( not very high i know) using a rank 30 excalibur with skarner,lato and a braton... and you are saying its hard to complete mercury?? It is jus a psychological effect you have on yourself as you have already been used to the damage you are able to deal using your main account. So please, do not say the game is hard for new players.

 

Then I surely must be a bad player because I am only MR12, I haven't obtained at least 1.6k in Tethra, and I haven't played T3 survival for 2 hours straight.

[AcquisCommunitaire]

Your misrepresent what he did, harp on little things, and in general try to skew the information.  Your image is a bit funny, and typical of guys like you.  First off,.. nobody knows what it refers to.  Second, let's assume we are looking at the same quest.  How do we have any idea where or how those kills were made.  HOw can you spend all of that time critiquing him and then post something so ambiguous yourself?  It's laughably hypocritical.  

 

Sorry bud.  YOur comments and image there would not stand up in court.  IN fact, they would be inadmissible.  Put some thought into what he did instead of acting like a stubborn jealous little boy.  Have a bit of respect and admit your defeat with some dignity.

 

ONe last thought... a large number of deaths occurred in his game after the mission was a success.  Some before, these get counted in the final mix too and don't play a big factor in success or failure.

 

The fact that you deny it is a picture of the mission results on Eurasia shows that you haven't helped any new players on Eurasia. It is a common scene when advanced players play on that node that he/she kills hundreds whereas the others, only a few.

 

Why would it not stand up in court? What is your source? The White book 2014? Unless you know your law of evidence, don't spout nonsense.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Haha mate, I'd rather have less players but all more competent (having passed the harder beginning) than have twice as many players that are mostly noobs.

There is nothing more annoying than running a defense and having 3 noobs join who just increase the spawn rate but constantly die and don't pull their weight. Sure, it's a novelty for the early waves, but if you're trying to go for higher rewards, noobs screw you over. Having a difficult beginning has ups and downs, but driving away a few incompetent noobs isn't a terrible idea.

I'd rather have the opposite, honestly, because more newbs = more paying players = more content for everyone, including me.

[Lorche]

Personally, if you are a new player and u do not know stuff, ask and i will be glad to help you.. i do that all the time when people ask for help.. but the fact that they choose to ignore a simple sentence such as "stalker on me, gather" and "activate life support only at 40 or 50%" totally &!$$ed me off. If you don know stuff, at least listen to experienced players.

 

The problem with this, is not all players speak English. And how many people actually paying attention and also capable to replying the chat while in the middle of hot bullets all over? There's a voice-chat feature in-game, but sadly not everyone can buy a microphone.

 

*sigh* THIS. This is probably the one that's bugging me the most (besides Void drops and Valkyr) about this game. Where do I start?

- Interception. This one (or two) node probably the biggest wall new player faces on Earth. I'm not tired to say that this mission doesn't belong to Earth at all.

This mission needs good coordination and (sorry to say, but) most of new players usualy didn't have it, for many reasons.(wacky chat system, language barrier)

And, if by some rare and weird logic DE still wanted to hold this node at Earth, either move the nodes so it didn't standing in the middle of crossroads and blocking progression; or remove heavy units, eviscerator, and hellion from this mission. Other than that, just put this type of mission in the next tileset (NOT Shipyard, because that will delay U13 even more, and that's bad)

- Mobile Defense, Defense, and Survival are hard to solo (I believe there must be someone out there in Solar System that HAVE to do all of his/her burden in solo); and I do know that DE are looking into a way to fix this.

So, just do what we usualy did. Make threads and throw constructive critics regarding how to balance solo/online gameplay.

- I find it's strange about the nessecity to open an outside encyclopedia to understand various mechanics in a game. I don't see the training part in the Codex as a proper 'advanced tutorial', because text only do so far.

Hek, I doubt most of new player know that that exists, at all. At least try to make new players read at it by using inbox to "point" them at that section.

- Serration and Hornet Strike is super duper hard to find, even to old players. At least bind these two mods as a reward for clearing Mercury and Venus. That way, at least they are half-prepared to face Earth.

- Looking back at Damage 2.0, I think the unseen consenquences is this: the inevitable "nerf" of Lato and MK-1 Braton (I swear these two performs better at Damage 1.0). This gun is one of the "bane of progression". I did some test run using MK-1 braton on Venus and Earth, and god it's frustrating. This is the stock weapon, yup. It must be replaced, and I think try to make it like a mandatory for new players before facing Vor to grab Strun/Braton at market (I don't think I can get 25k before facing Vor. I'll see if that's possible.). That way, at least they have better firepower.

- Things like when to activate life support, what is stalker (and the other shenanigans), and many other informal rules are something that old players should inform and tell to new players. This is something that Lotus won't tell them on tutorial, and it fall to us to tell them. As for Bombards, I could see if his spawning is pushed back to start from 15 mins mark. That way, new players can get keys and have more time to evac.

- Market's fine. But the rearrangement of resources is also needed on these three planets, since it's weird that you need to pass these three planets to actually build new weapons. It's weird. You can also lower the credit requirements for Braton or Strun.

- There's no problem regarding Vor. unless his buggy drop. He's your first challenge, after all. It just need to be emphasized that he's a major threat, and new players are advised to get some backup.

- This is not a game where "git gud" is the best answer you can throw to them. A semi-handholding is needed, at least until they have a decent knowledge about how the whole game operates. We already experienced what they have, and we managed to overcome it to standing where we are now. And that's where our role lies as old players, teaching them ropes so that they can stand on their own feet and exploring the Solar System. The last thing we needed is to make this game as complicated as the plot of "Game of Thrones"

 

With the recent publicity we got from the poll, we will see many new players. I agree on one point with TC: If this continues, it will be the thing that slowly kills Warframe.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Lorche

[-CM-LittleSnow]

Then I surely must be a bad player because I am only MR12, I haven't obtained at least 1.6k in Tethra, and I haven't played T3 survival for 2 hours straight.

 

Ok fellow tenno, i am not saying you are a bad player... what I meant is for new players, if they do not know anything, ask.

 

 

The problem with this, is not all players speak English. And how many people actually paying attention and also capable to replying the chat while in the middle of hot bullets all over? There's a voice-chat feature in-game, but sadly not everyone can buy a microphone.

 

*sigh* THIS. This is probably the one that's bugging me the most (besides Void drops and Valkyr) about this game. Where do I start?

- Interception. This one (or two) node probably the biggest wall new player faces on Earth. I'm not tired to say that this mission doesn't belong to Earth at all.

This mission needs good coordination and (sorry to say, but) most of new players usualy didn't have it, for many reasons.(wacky chat system, language barrier)

And, if by some rare and weird logic DE still wanted to hold this node at Earth, either move the nodes so it didn't standing in the middle of crossroads and blocking progression; or remove heavy units, eviscerator, and hellion from this mission. Other than that, just put this type of mission in the next tileset (NOT Shipyard, because that will delay U13 even more, and that's bad)

- Mobile Defense, Defense, and Survival are hard to solo (I believe there must be someone out there in Solar System that HAVE to do all of his/her burden in solo); and I do know that DE are looking into a way to fix this.

So, just do what we usualy did. Make threads and throw constructive critics regarding how to balance solo/online gameplay.

- I find it's strange about the nessecity to open an outside encyclopedia to understand various mechanics in a game. I don't see the training part in the Codex as a proper 'advanced tutorial', because text only do so far.

Hek, I doubt most of new player know that that exists, at all. At least try to make new players read at it by using inbox to "point" them at that section.

- Serration and Hornet Strike is super duper hard to find, even to old players. At least bind these two mods as a reward for clearing Mercury and Venus. That way, at least they are half-prepared to face Earth.

- Looking back at Damage 2.0, I think the unseen consenquences is this: the inevitable "nerf" of Lato and MK-1 Braton (I swear these two performs better at Damage 1.0). This gun is one of the "bane of progression". I did some test run using MK-1 braton on Venus and Earth, and god it's frustrating. This is the stock weapon, yup. It must be replaced, and I think try to make it like a mandatory for new players before facing Vor to grab Strun/Braton at market (I don't think I can get 25k before facing Vor. I'll see if that's possible.). That way, at least they have better firepower.

- Things like when to activate life support, what is stalker (and the other shenanigans), and many other informal rules are something that old players should inform and tell to new players. This is something that Lotus won't tell them on tutorial, and it fall to us to tell them. As for Bombards, I could see if his spawning is pushed back to start from 15 mins mark. That way, new players can get keys and have more time to evac.

- Market's fine. But the rearrangement of resources is also needed on these three planets, since it's weird that you need to pass these three planets to actually build new weapons. It's weird. You can also lower the credit requirements for Braton or Strun.

- There's no problem regarding Vor. unless his buggy drop. He's your first challenge, after all. It just need to be emphasized that he's a major threat, and new players are advised to get some backup.

- This is not a game where "git gud" is the best answer you can throw to them. A semi-handholding is needed, at least until they have a decent knowledge about how the whole game operates. We already experienced what they have, and we managed to overcome it to standing where we are now. And that's where our role lies as old players, teaching them ropes so that they can stand on their own feet and exploring the Solar System. The last thing we needed is to make this game as complicated as the plot of "Game of Thrones"

 

With the recent publicity we got from the poll, we will see many new players. I agree on one point with TC: If this continues, it will be the thing that slowly kills Warframe.

 

Language barrier wise, i understand. But generally i believe everyone knows a little bit of english as it is a universal language unless you are telling me u came the far side of the mountains and maybe u can only communicate with animals, that part i understand. The devs have actually addressed the issues of Earth being difficult already and they are doing their best to actually balance it but majority of the players are pressuring them for U13, may I ask, how the hell are they going to do things concurently?

[DocHolliday13]

The big underlying problem with this game is that it has enormous power increase for players but no actual progression path. If you're going to start players off with weapons that are total garbage, then you need to provide better ones at the appropriate times. This means not just having them theoretically available, but actually make sure the player will get them unless he ignores something pretty obvious.

 

So as a result, beginner part of the game is too hard, and veterans in turn have it way too easy.

 

Here's how progression works.

 

Upon completing Mercury, players should have at least one of all very basic mods, like damage increase mods, health/shield increase mods, etc. They should also get, for free, blueprints for a better primary gun, better secondary, and better melee - and be able to get all the materials for them from Mercury.

 

Upon completing the next planet, players should have at least one copy of all basic elemental damage mods, and potentially another set of blueprints and access to materials needed.

 

And so on.

Edited April 6, 2014 by DocHolliday13

[Xylia]

How exactly do you know?

 

Seriously, Intercepts have been roadblocking players for months now, and the response on the last devstream was "it's an awesome challenge and we're glad new players get to experience it". Except that there's a thread pretty much every day now asking why Intercept is so poorly balanced, so players are clearly not having the same experience.

 

I suspect that the dev team don't even realise it's impossible to craft any frames, any primaries or secondaries, or even any melee weapons other than Orthos, before making it out to Saturn, Mars and Jupiter - Europa or the Void for frames. This because of another comment from the devs' own mouths that they tested Interception with a "gimped build using stuff that a player who played linearly to Earth would have" - meanwhile the heavily-overequipped players of the last Prime Time managed to fail their Intercepts consistently. Yeah, I'd like to know what weapons, frames and mods they expect a player on Earth to have, but I don't expect to ever see this legendary testing loadout. Because if there's anything DE hates, it's having to admit they're wrong.

 

The issue of early mod drops was also brought up in the devstream, and the dev who addressed it said that "I think we're doing a good job of putting these required mods on common enemies". Really? Then why aren't they dropping for new players?

 

Somewhere around U12, the dev team nerfed Lato and AkLato. This amidst consistent complaints that the starter weapons were already extremely poor. Yes, players were likely using the Lato in preference to the MK-1... but that wasn't because the Lato family were OP, it was because of how utterly useless the MK-1 had become after Damage 2.0.

 

None of this points to a dev team that's willing to address the issues. It all points to someone having a vision of balance completely divorced from the reality of new players' experience.

 

So yeah. Tell me more about how you "know" they're working on it. Meanwhile, I'm just happy to see the community doesn't just accept it without comment.

 

^^

This mirrors a lot of my own thoughts about DE's handling of the New Player Experience problem.

 

They SAY they are aware of new players being shafted.

They SAY they are aware that the new player experience is too dang hard.

They SAY they know there's a problem.

 

They SAY a lot of things.

 

What did they DO since this?

 

It took me two Livestreams to get an answer to the New Player Experience. Since my question got answered, DE did...

 

1). They added Redirection to the Tutorial and gave Tenno 20k creds for defeating Vor. (this is good)

2). They turned Earth into a Jungle, and gave the Grineer Karaks (which do WAY more damage than Grakatas), they stuck Hellions in there (which have NO business being in the 3rd planet before you can make anything whatsoever at all)

3). Interception being a huge roadblock instead of doing the sensible thing, and putting it off the main path (like Apollodorus).

4). Grineer Commanders' Stun. They weren't bad enough before, now they STUN you when they switch teleport you. A newbie is most likely guaranteed to die from this, given their <200 shields/health.

5). G3/Harvester Spawns if the newbie ever joins an online match. Oh, and if they joined an online match and the G3 spawned... they might get a PERMANENT DEBUFF until they collect items that is LITERALLY impossible for them to obtain without buying platinum.

6). Nerfing of the Lato/Aklato. The one and only saving grace newbies had.....NOPE!

7). Mod Drop 2.0 (no +damage mods until late Earth, if you're lucky).

8). Arc Traps in Galleons (yanno, most of Mercury?)

 

And that's just scratching the surface. So out of 8 points.....ONE thing helped newbies, the other 7 hurt them very badly.

 

So they.....SAY......they want to help new players.

 

What they DO, however, is make the game the most Hellish experience for any fresh newbie.

 

What they SAY != What they DO.

 

Plain and simple.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Xylia

[mpastor]

When I first read this topic I was blind-sided by the idea that there was a road block to new players.  In fact, I always thought this game enable leveling at blinding fast speeds.  Heck you can reach and start grinding the end game in a matter of days or weeks.  However, this thread and another striked my interest and I took another look.

 

Like I said the first time through, the interception missions did not stop me.  At most one replay.  Not enough that I noticed an issue.  After gaining a few levels I did Eurasia with a friend, both of us still novice players (MR 3 ish).  We used voice chat and he took two towers while I took two others, have no idea what the other guys did.  Anyway, we finished it easy.  So, in my mind there was no problem.

 

Ok, after reading his thread I took an end game LOki down to Eurasia to solo.  I had sort of forgotten the details or maybe never really understood them to begin with so I got off to a poor start.  But quickly I adjusted and ended up beating back the horde and winning.  I found it mildly challenging with about 100kills.  

 

Next, I immediately turned solo off and joined another mission again.  It seemed like I had teleported into a mad house.  Grineer were everywhere and the battle was raging fiercely.  Three others were fighting for their lives.  I immediately went invisible and assessed the situation.  They were down 10% and falling fast.  Only one tower was up. I then went to the much harder task of regaining control of the situation while playing medic.  Again we won, but this time 200 foes fell.

 

I decided based on info in another post to start a new account and do the Eurasia experience.  I stayed in the planetary space and took basically a linear path to Eurasia.  I arrived there about 20th level clicked on the start and had a big surprise.  Nobody had the sense to wait for a full party before diving in.  To make a long story short, it took me 5 restarts to get enough guys to wait at start to make the mission doable.  We finished the mission with about 200 kills.  I held one tower and supported one other.  I assume my fellow generally did likewise for the Grineer never gained more than 10%.  This took about 30 minutes overall.

 

I dont see the new player experience as broke. If anything is broke it is the archaic squad recruitment system.  If people had the time to build squads, go over a plan, then start the mission together, I believe this would not be any sort of a problem mission.  I have been harping on a better squad recruitment system from almost my first post in this forum.  Well, if anything shows the dire, and I mean dire need (more important than even an update to melee), this mission does.  The mission is just too tactically complex for the basic squad formation system currently in use.

Edited April 6, 2014 by mpastor

[Boondorl]

The big underlying problem with this game is that it has enormous power increase for players but no actual progression path. If you're going to start players off with weapons that are total garbage, then you need to provide better ones at the appropriate times. This means not just having them theoretically available, but actually make sure the player will get them unless he ignores something pretty obvious.

 

So as a result, beginner part of the game is too hard, and veterans in turn have it way too easy.

 

Here's how progression works.

 

Upon completing Mercury, players should have at least one of all very basic mods, like damage increase mods, health/shield increase mods, etc. They should also get, for free, blueprints for a better primary gun, better secondary, and better melee - and be able to get all the materials for them from Mercury.

 

Upon completing the next planet, players should have at least one copy of all basic elemental damage mods, and potentially another set of blueprints and access to materials needed.

 

And so on.

 

It sounds like this is what DE is planning on doing with the quest system (aside from blueprints). I'm all for it if it's true.

[DocHolliday13]

It sounds like this is what DE is planning on doing with the quest system (aside from blueprints). I'm all for it if it's true.

 

That would be good.

 

Because they really need to do something pretty major to fix the newbie experience.

 

New players are the life-blood that keeps games profitable.

 

See, here's the thing about developing for veteran players versus developing for new players. Almost all players will quit, eventually. All continuous online games have a small core of veteran players that don't quit until the game is axed, this is true, but that core is not enough to provide financial support needed to keep it running. The rest of us will eventually quit for one reason or another (generally due to getting bored, I think) - and nothing, no amount of new content, no amount of fixes, nothing will change that. So to keep the game going as long as possible, you need to keep drawing in new players as long as possible. And you need to keep them around long enough for them to contribute monetarily. And well, currently, I'm pretty sure this game is probably falling short in that regard.

Edited April 6, 2014 by DocHolliday13

[Lokismokes]

I don't at all see the new player experience as broken.  I took up a number people's challenge and started a new account to check out new player experience.  I stayed in the planetary system, didnt go to recruit channel for help, and collected no damage or rare mods.  When I got to Eurasia I was like level 22. 

 

I have now played Eurasia three times.  All three were successes.  The best the Grineer ever did was my last mission.  There were three very new players and myself.  I manage to talk each into waiting for a full party to join before starting.  When the fourth guy came we went to the mission.

 

I had a braton and the rest noob gear.  I run a Loki with invis mod maxed.  Using my brat to take out trash and going invisible to deal with bosses (would only need swipe one to three times), I held my area without issue, and roamed the map from time to time to collect ammo and energy.  At the end, I had 42 percent of damage, another guy had 43 and the other two had the rest.

 

This is the third time in a row that I ran the quest and it was a success, though this was by far the worst showing with Grineer getting up close to 50%.  I think the success is due mostly to me being able to convince people to wait for a full group before starting.  Anyway.  take it or leave it, I dont believe the new player experience is in any way shape or form broken.  If anything up to this mission I was a little bored.

 

BTW, I could be imagining things, but i would swear we had less Hvy Grineer and bad guys in general.  Perhaps some scaling is going on and this was due to our low levels or perhaps I just imagined it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Lokismokes