Please Balance Warframes Hp, Shield And Armor, Especially To Survive Nightmare Mode.

[Makemap]

i have tried many frames, the most useful frame that would most likely to surive is Rhino, Trinity, Valkyr and Now Zephyr .

Especially when it comes to nightmare mode(Embers, and many weak armored frames dies instantly).

 

Why does all the tanky warframe have more armor, but as much the same shield or HP as the rest of the warframes that have very weak armor?

 

Just for Comparsions I'll post the most useful warframes stats for max rank based on wiki.

 

Note: Speed also places a factor on your mods(Rush) and Evasion.

 

Valkyr:

-300HP

-600 armor

-150 shield

- Speed 1.1

 

Survival Skill: Hysteria

Escape Skill: Rip Line(not very effective)

 

Rhino:

- 300 HP(Seriously he has Iron Skin)

- 190 Armor

- 450 Shield... Seriously, WTH, he has 190 armor already.

- Speed 0.9

With Vanguard Helmet speed is 1.125

 

Survival Skill: Iron Skin

Escape Skills: Rhino Charge / Rhino Stomp

 

Trinity:

- 300 HP

- 15 Armor(buff to 25/35 armor please, this is Embers armor and she dies too fast on normal lvl 20+)

- 300 Shield

- Speed 1.0

 

Survival Skill: Blessing and Link

Escape Skills: None

 

Zephyr:

- 450 HP

- 15 armor (Again buff to either 25/35 armor, the old armor isn't working for the new enemy damage)

- 450 shield

- Speed 1.15

 

Survival Skill: Turbulence

Escape Skills: Tail Wind / Tornado

 

Frost:

- 300 HP

- 190 Armor

- 450 Shield

- Speed 0.9

 

Survival Skills: Snow Globe(not very effect compare to the top four, but better than Volt's)

Escape Skills: Ice Wave, Freeze, Avalanche

 

Here is a list on warframes that needs a buff:

 

Ember:

- Buff Hp from 300 to 450

- Buff Armor from 15 to 25/35

- Buff Shield from 300 to 450

- Default Speed 1.0

 

Survival Skills: None

Escape Skills: Fireball (Must aim in difficulty, only if it had a bigger knockdown explosion proc like Bombard right now)

 

Mag:

- Default 225 HP (Shield > HP for Mag)

- Default 65 Armor(now this is good armor)

- Buff Shield from 450 to 550(she has a skill called "Shield Polarize" that is meant for her high shield)

- Default Speed 1.0

 

Survival Skills: Shield Polarize(which I barely used, due to my build)

Escape Skills: Pull, Crush, Possible Bullet Attractor(not very effective agaisnt mobs)

 

Loki:

-Buff Hp from 225 to 350 due to Toxic enemies(Loki mostly based on melee due to his skill).

-Default Armor 65

-Default Shield 225

-Default Speed 1.2

 

Survival Skills: None

Escape Skills: Decoy, Invisibility, Switch Teleport and Radial Disarm.

 

Ash:

He is fine.

 

Nova:

She is fine due to 1.2 run speed + Molecular Prime + Wormhole.

 

 

Volt:

- Buff 300 HP to 350 HP(bit more than Rhino)

- Buff Armor from 15 to 25/35

- Buff 450 Shield to 500 shield(50 less than Mag)

- Default Speed 1.0

 

Survival Skills: Electric Shield(One of the most ineffective skill right now, increasing the default shield size will do Volt Justice)

Escape Skills: Shock, Speed, Overload

 

Vauban:

- Buff HP from 300 to 450

- Buff Armor to 65

- Default Shield 225

- Default speed 1.0

 

Survival Skills: None

Escape Skills: Vortex, Bastile

Nekros:

- Buff HP from 300 to 475. Seriously you give him weaker shield yet the same exact health as Rhino.

- Default Armor 65

- Default shield 270

 

Survival Skills: None, Descrate woudn't help you survive if you need to run.

Escape Skills: Soul Punch(Extremely uneffective due to having to target someone), Terrify, Shadows of The Dead(if you can summon in time before dying)

 

Nyx:

- Buff HP from 300 to 450

- Buff armor from 15 to 25/35

- Buff shield from 300 to 450

 

Survival Skills: Mind control(if you get Shield Ospreys/ Ancients)

Escape Skills: Mind Control, Absorb(if you can kill all the enemies), Chaos

 

Excalibur(Least used warframe):

- Buff 300 HP to 500 HP

- Default 65 Armor

- Buff 300 shield to 500 Shield

 

Why? Now New Comers have a easierchoice between the High HP and Health, or Loki(Stealth), or Mag(Mob Control)

Also most of his skills except Radial Blind isn't much help for teammates.

 

Survival SKills: None

Escape Skills: Slash and Dash, Radial Blind, Super Jump(if you have to jump on top of something)

 

 

 

Banshee:

- Buff HP from 300 to 450

- Buff Armor from 15 to 25/35

- Buff Shield from 300 to 500

 

Survival Skills: None

Escape Skills: Sonic Boom

 

Saryn(no need to buff):

- Default:450 HP (For 155 armor that is a lot of HP)

- Default 155 Armor (look at this, no wonder my friend was surviving Nightmare mode with her easier than me using Ember, Banshee or Mag)

- Default 300 shield (much better than Nekros)

 

Survival Skills: None

Escape Skills: Molt, Miasma(if you can kill)

 

Oberon:

He is fine

 

Survival Skills: Renewal

Escape Skills: Reckoning, Smite

 

Here is an example from a thread I posted.

Then i decided to try Solo. But not with a OP frame, without any kind of special strategy. No Nyx, no Loki, no Vauban, anything like that. I wanted to beat the mission using only skills and weapons, no cheesy tactics. So i got my Sassy Saryn, a Synapse, a Tysis, and a Scoliac. Put some Maxed damage mods on the weapons, but not too OP. Used some basic mods on the Warframe, some mods were maxed. I chose that loudout because it was the loudout that i used right after Tethra's Doom came out, and i died on the mission, got completely swarmed and died with Saryn that day. Well it turns out that the spawn rates for Solo have been drastically decreased. I did one wave with no problem even recorded a video of the mission (If someone want i can post it) i didn't die, didn't even took damage to Health. And i was not even using Redirection mod.

 

TL;DR The spawn rates for Interception Missions are fine. They are satisfactory, just difficult enough to be challenging and fun.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/205402-interception-missions-are-really-that-hard-for-newbies-i-tested-it/

 

This is exaclty why Saryn doesn't need an Armor , Shield / HP buff. It is all about the warframes skill mostly. Ember being the worst on nightmare mode because she has no choice but to charge. Don't be talking back, I got Strun Wraith or Ogris to do all the stealth kills. We are also talking about public games. Not Private Clan. A lot of public players wouldn't be doing stealth kills.

 

Seriously, team shield/heal? I doubt those would be used a lot in public. As many who start nightmare don't even have access to those.

 

If Excalibur and Loki already having a hard time with Interception Mission, what do you think of starting out as Ember unable to have enough power effeciency with only 15 Armor. Nova M prime goes very far. Yes I'm using Ember as a big example because I'm having an extremely hard time with her due to her lack of skills to get away.

 

Every warframe should have at least an Escape Skill. I don't consider ember having one, especially her survival skill got turned into damage buff. (Ember rant)

 

Ember being one of the caster damage warframes cannot even survival Defesne/Survival Nightmare without someone tanking/annoying the enemies. Since Frost shield got nerfed, you guys still think you can survive a wave of mobs in those missions? I mean people will bring Nova, yes. But it makes the other frames obsolete and never used again. Rhino is everything for Ngihtmare right now. Along with Nova and Trinity(if you can find her).

Edited April 3, 2014 by Makemap

[Farren]

Game shouldn't be balanced around the hard/challenge mode. That's just dumb.

[Makemap]

Game shouldn't be balanced around the hard/challenge mode. That's just dumb.

Don't know what your taking about, but most of the warframes are not being used in this game. As you can see the more tankier frames have better overall stats when they already got skills that make them almost invincible.

 

If you compare the healths and shield you see why the other frames die so fast to high level mobs.

My Ember is dying quite fast to lvl 20's normal.

While my Mag can handle them.

Rhino can tank all the way to Nightmare mode. Same with Valkyr because of 600 armor!

Edited April 2, 2014 by Makemap

[Axeroix]

Speed is probably still the best movement ability volt is fine

[HappyApathy]

I don't see your point, I do nightmare fine with Nyx, you just have to approach it differently then the usual "rush in, kill everything in sight". I tend to do nightmares solo and equip stealth weapons and carefully pick my way through the level, even with vampire or timer conditions I still often finish with plenty of health/time left. If I get spotted and shot to pieces, well it's called nightmare for a reason.

 

Personally going with a 'tanky' frame is an awful way to approach nightmare missions where the best way to win is to make sure your enemies never get to fire in the first place, its one of the few areas of WF where stealth mechanics are actually key and I would like to see it stay that way rather then making it something you can blast through like any regular level.

[MrJxt]

The minor buffs you suggested will barely help squishier frames survive nightmare mod, just sayin. The armor extra armor and base shield/hp increase would only allow them to survive an extra shot or 2.

Edited April 2, 2014 by MrJxt

[Zhoyzu]

Don't know what your taking about, but most of the warframes are not being used in this game. As you can see the more tankier frames have better overall stats when they already got skills that make them almost invincible.

 

If you compare the healths and shield you see why the other frames die so fast to high level mobs.

My Ember is dying quite fast to lvl 20's normal.

While my Mag can handle them.

Rhino can tank all the way to Nightmare mode. Same with Valkyr because of 600 armor!

he is right. its stupid to balance the game around the extra hard challenges people wanted because of crying how easy the game was for them. If you want to balance your frame for nightmare mode you should try putting mods in your warframe. they help i promise.

 

and iron skin isnt tanking. its a rushers cop out

[HillsAndTheSea]

it makes alot more sense to just rebalance nightmare mode to accommodate the other frames

[Zhoyzu]

just read your post (lol) you seem to have no clue what you're talking about with some frames. Reading your post tells me you struggle with frame building and knowledge of how to play the frame properly.

 

Its ok give it some time you might come to understand them in the future.

[StockimPopo]

There all fine as they are, go play with some skilled players and u will run thru the nightmare missions llike normal missions.

 

And for that amount of buff ur asking i agree with MrJxt.

[Arbiter_of_Soul]

Armor/Health tanking in warframe is all but useless. Valkyr wouldn't even be considered a tank if not for her Hysteria ability. Some frames just aren't meant to be in the thick of battle. Either play more carefully or choose another, more suitable frame for the occasion.

[Arunafeltz]

Nightmare mode... I just get out my Rhino.

[Methanoid]

it makes alot more sense to just rebalance nightmare mode to accommodate the other frames

 

then they wouldnt be "nightmare mode", their fine as is, their supposed to be stupidly hard, or they wouldnt be nightmarish.

 

abilitys are what counts and how you tackle those missions, loki has terrible armor but he can manage as long as he can go invis or disarm stuff, the real issue here is just the power drain debuff, thats where squishy frames basically eat floor while tankier ones can last a few hits.

 

in all honesty tho none of the OP's issues are a problem if you just carry some team energy restores and faceroll even nightmare mode, we have various consumables, and they eat our plentiful supplys of nanospores, might as well use them, nightmare mode is pretty easy when using them on nearly any frame tbh.

[BrotherIcarus]

The reason the tankier frames are the most used is because they are easy to use, I have said before and will say again Rhino is a great crutch for new players he is easy to use in almost any situation.

 

I have ran nightmare missions with the least tanky frames in the game and have gotten through them with ease.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

then they wouldnt be "nightmare mode", their fine as is, their supposed to be stupidly hard, or they wouldnt be nightmarish.

 

 

Except when those who play nightmare just select a Loki or Rhino and walk through the lvl with no difficulty at all. It's not Nightmare, when it's no more difficult than normal with both of those frames. 

 

No shield mode is pointless in Nightmare, it's silly given that it doesn't actually make the thing more challenging. Just frustrating with some frames, and makes no difference with others. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Axterix13]

Except when those who play nightmare just select a Loki or Rhino and walk through the lvl with no difficulty at all. It's not Nightmare, when it's no more difficult than normal with both of those frames. 

 

No shield mode is pointless in Nightmare, it's silly given that it doesn't actually make the thing more challenging. Just frustrating with some frames, and makes no difference with others. 

This.

 

And it also applies to Energy Drain mode.  Both of these serve to remove a large chunk of the game's intended balance between frames, as well as rendering certain mods useless or a lot less effective.  Both should be replaced with things that accomplish the same goal, but don't go against the game's design.  Instead of No Shield Mode, there should be a high damage mode.  High damage will eat through shields, health, and Iron Skin faster, so it achieves the same goal of "play smart or die", but leaves shields in the equation.  And energy drain should go for an efficiency debuff.  That would allow skills to still be used, but just less often.  All mods dedicated to powers would therefore remain effective, and frames that give up durability for powers still have access to their powers.

[Seasonsofclarity]

I've run Nightmare modes with a Mag and a sniper rifle.

 

You just need to learn to compensate for your lack of shields by using tactics.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I've run Nightmare modes with a Mag and a sniper rifle.

 

You just need to learn to compensate for your lack of shields by using tactics.

 

You mean game the system. 

 

What you're suggesting isn't careful or skillful play being rewarded, that's exploiting poor AI and lvl design to circumvent the artificial difficulty of a game mode. 

 

That's entirely different.

Edited April 3, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Makemap]

The minor buffs you suggested will barely help squishier frames survive nightmare mod, just sayin. The armor extra armor and base shield/hp increase would only allow them to survive an extra shot or 2.

Um no, have you calculated HP/shield?

 

300 x 440% = 1320

450 x 440% = 1980

That is boost of 640 HP which can save the squishier warframes live right there.

 

Anyone seriously tried soloing with Ember on an Invasion map right against lvl 20's(Those dam Heavies + Eviscetor). I think the Grineers seriously need a nerf.

 

This is not only about nightmare mode guys. Seriously Solo with the other frames especially Ember who has no go mob control skills. My Ember was rank 13 and I'm already having a hard time against lvl 20 Heavies(Forma 4 times already).

 

Yes, No Shield has to go.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Makemap

[Makemap]

I don't see your point, I do nightmare fine with Nyx, you just have to approach it differently then the usual "rush in, kill everything in sight". I tend to do nightmares solo and equip stealth weapons and carefully pick my way through the level, even with vampire or timer conditions I still often finish with plenty of health/time left. If I get spotted and shot to pieces, well it's called nightmare for a reason.

 

Personally going with a 'tanky' frame is an awful way to approach nightmare missions where the best way to win is to make sure your enemies never get to fire in the first place, its one of the few areas of WF where stealth mechanics are actually key and I would like to see it stay that way rather then making it something you can blast through like any regular level.

Your point is kind of invalid to some warframes I suggested, your using a frame that has good mob control skills. Tell me later when you tried the others.

 

Without the HP/shield buff, all the other warframes are seen obsolete to Rhino at most because he has all the good stats while others frames either have equal or lower stats for survival. New comers will not choose the other frames for good reasons. Except Nekros because Descrating for loot. Trinity however is unobtainable for now, that frame used to be chosed the most among Rhino which I have seen in public due to healing. Excalibur is basically abandoned.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Makemap

[gamefreak9149]

I think i know your issue. You are playing each frame the same exact way. Run in and shoot things to they are dead, never using cover, shield, health, or power restores. That is your issue, along with thinking that frames should be balanced around this challenge setting. It is nightmare for the exact reason for it to be hard and unfair.

 

For example loki, unless its the energy drain  challenge you can literally run though maps without them ever shooting back at you. In the case it is that challenge just bloody pop a power restore item and problem solved if you havent found a power orb from a killed mob recently. Loki and ash gets a massive melee boost while invisible as you know which makes it so they can literally slash apart mobs level 40-50 with ease and dont melee toxic mobs, play smart about it for a change. Shoot them, they still wont know where you are in most cases, they just kinda run around like headless chickens looking for you.

[sneakatone]

rhino dosent need a nerf but excalibur possibly needs a buff.

[Makemap]

rhino dosent need a nerf but excalibur possibly needs a buff.

Now we have someone talking sense.

[LGear]

As many others have said, Nightmare should not be used as a benchmark for balancing. Nightmare is a special challenge mode, with modes that imbalance the abilities of several frames, thus making you rely more on careful, smarter approaches or special abilities. You're not supposed to run Nightmare like you do normal missions, you need to actually prepare for them.

 

Each and every Nightmare Challenge requires the appropriate gear and equipment to run. Stock up on Energy Restores to counter the Energy Vampire challenge, Health Restores to counter the Health Vampire challenge, and your best, hardest hitting weapon to counter the Timed mode. Finally, no shields can be compensated for by just playing smart - taking cover, using abilities etc -, or using a high-survivability Warframe. Survivability though is not just determined by health, armor and shields.

 

As someone who farms Nightmare for Mods, my most used Warframe isn't Rhino or Trinity: it's Loki, aka the squishiest Warframe in the game. Yet he runs Nightmare the best due to his Invisibility. You can't be shot at if they don't even know you're there afterall.

 

Warframes don't need buffs for Nightmare difficulty, because Nightmare isn't supposed to be balanced against, otherwise it isn't a "Nightmare" mode. Even then, you can play Nightmare mode and win with any Warframe as long as you have the appropriate preparation to do so.  

[Rekkou]

Disregard their abilities or playstyle. Some warframes in fact have unballanced stats when compared. If you assign +- points for each stat better or worse than excalibur, you'll see some warframe have better stats than other. Ash have better stats than Oberon, Mag/Zephyr have better stats than Volt. Etc