Ember Needs A Buff/fix, Obsolete On Later Levels. Her Skills Need A Buff.

[Makemap]

Out of all her skills she has to be the one that always gets blocked and can never run away.

 

I have her and did a pure damage build, there is a problem with her skills.

 

First of all she only has 1.0 speed. If she got buffed to 1.2 speed(I mean look at her legs, she should run fast as default).

 

Why does speed count for Ember?

 

World on fire skill.

 

The faster you move the more likely you damage the enemies. I like the old World on Fire because it hits everyone while the flames spin around. The new "World on Fire" is okay but not as effective, it has a lot of delays to hit enemies.

It doesn't stun or cause burning fear either. Which means enemies are still shooting at you.

 

If she had 1.2 speed we would need 1 less mod on Ember(Rush). Which is a good thing because I am already out of room to make Ember more useful.

 

She may have the biggest damage as a caster frame(Blind Rage), but it would reduce duration by a lot(Fleeting Expertise). As you would want power effeciency.

 

Basically "Fleeting Expertise" completely cancels out the duration very badly. -60% over the two mods 58% in total(Continuty/Constitution). You would make it deal more damage if you had the duration. This make me add "Narrow Minded" which would increase my duration. World on Fire has extremely poor range as you would have to be up close and personel to deal maximum damage as it would reduce you power range. Since Overheat is change to Accelerant, you would want to combine them.

 

This means I have "Blind Rage", "Fleeting Expertise","Continuty", "Constitution", "Narrow Minded", "Redirection", "Intensify"

That is 7 mods in total.

 

Accelerant and World on Fire for skill mod. So that would be 9 mods in total. Maximum slot is 10. I would put either Vitality or Rush and putting Rush would make Ember extremely weak, but faster. Ember basically only have one build.

 

Note: World on Fire is not as strong or effective as Nova's M-Prime(slow down) which another reason she'll never be used in a higher level place.

 

This build Ember can kill lvl 30's with world on fire. But, if I put Vitality she would more than likely to survive. If I put Rush she is faster but she does really weak. She has no skill to protect here since the change on Overheat. Accelerant is a worthless skill to use on enemies as it only stagger them 1s. This means enemies are still blocking entrances. I have no room for Fireball. Fireball doesn't do much to enemies and not as useful compre to mags pull, etc skill to escape.

 

Why use Ember when you can use Nova who would out damage, out run and can escape?

 

Here is the suggestion for Ember:

 

Buff Speed to 1.2. The faster you run the more the seconds would count. If you look at Ember design she has leg muscles. She is not even putting those to use.

 

Fireball deal knockdown like Bombard Rockets update. That way people can have a World on fire run and use fireball to blow mobs out of the way from the door so Ember can escape. A ninja always have an escape option.

 

Accelerant is basically a buff like Rhino's Roar or Loki invisibilty to melee. But worst it only effects skills. This put ember in a huge disadvantage when enemies become way too strong to get out.

 

I use Fire blast on defense and I have no clue why the burning fear is on Fire Blast, but not World on Fire. Fireblast doesn't even move and world on fire you have to run straight into enemies, especially Heavies. All they do is keep shooting at you and close enough you get slammed down and get screwed over.

 

I think "Fireblast" should change to "Fire Wall". So it can stack with World on Fire as she runs, enemies cannot see her until she is close enough to be shot or melee. This should make them keep missing their shots for a while.  Power Range increases the fire wall range as it should make it longer.
 

Incase you don't want to read the longer Paragraphs, the suggestions are(these are suggestion people need to stop bashing):

 

#1 Fireball deal knockdown, so Ember can get away from blocked doors

 

#2 Increase Speed to 1.2(1 less mod) Plus ember is suppose to be based on speed due to her skills.

 

#3 Change "Fire Blast" to "Fire Wall", Kind of like Zephyr skill, but not likely and not invincble. Enemies will not see Ember in walls of fire until she is close enough to be shot(this should be the return of Overheat). This means everyone shooting in mid-far range will always miss Ember until she is in close range. Enemies touching firewall will get heat damage also. So basically a moving "Fireblast" skill but shorter range as default.

 

 

Edited: Maybe World on Fire shouldn't cause explosion fear because it has a long duration compare to the others.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Makemap

[VKhaun]

Accelerant is basically a buff like Rhino's Roar or Loki invisibilty to melee. But worst it only effects skills. This put ember in a huge disadvantage when enemies become way too strong to get out.

 

No...

 

Accelerant is her late game skill. It works with guns and the debuff scales with power strength. You can get better bonuses with only fire on your guns than you can with rainbow, and using fewer mods allowing for more ammo/utility that translates to DPS through fewer reloads, multiple targets hit, etc.

 

It's also a clutch dodge that will stop any knockdown, and a short PBAoE stun that lets you take cover or quickly kill what's hurting you.

 

Ember Prime is my go-to high end damage dealer and Accelerant is the only skill I use.

Edited April 4, 2014 by VKhaun

[Makemap]

No...

 

Accelerant is her late game skill. It works with guns and the debuff scales with power strength. You can get better bonuses with only fire on your guns than you can with rainbow, and using fewer mods allowing for more ammo/utility that translates to DPS through fewer reloads, multiple targets hit, etc.

 

It's also a clutch dodge that will stop any knockdown, and a short PBAoE stun that lets you take cover or quickly kill what's hurting you.

 

Ember Prime is my go-to high end damage dealer and Accelerant is the only skill I use.

I wounder why doesn't Frost get a skill that buff Ice damage. I guess, it is best combined with Ignis, even so that is a close range weapon means moe than likely to get knock down by heavies.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Makemap

[VKhaun]

I wounder why doesn't Frost get a skill that buff Ice damage. I guess, it is best combined with Ignis, even so that is a close range weapon means moe than likely to get knock down by heavies.

 

Ignis becomes stronger than Boltor Prime. Obviously less range, but it also hits more targets and Accelerant itself is, again, a stun that stops things moving forward AND a knockdown clutch dodge (you can't be knocked down during the animation) so no... She is my favorite frame for dealing with big groups of Ancients and Ignis is exactly what I use.

 

Corpus you need to use Overextended and a rifle with Hellfire + Wildfire but the damage is still amazing, and elements scale with crit.

 

Her weakness is Grineer IMO. They tend to be very spread out and very active, so you end up shot to bits trying to deal with all the enemies near and far. Galleons are nice and small and Asteroid Bases I'll still bring her, but Grineer on OD give me trouble and the Void vs Corrupted are tricky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT to add, about Frost...

The dev intent here, as stated in multiple livestreamss, is that players move AWAY from raw damage powers and towards utility and skill combined with weapons. Frost is billed as a tank mage type character, so he's intended to move towards slowing effects and freezing effects while using Snowglobe to always be able to tank. Snowglobe is also a slow field.

 

Ember is described as an offensive mage type frame, so she's going from vaporizing stuff that's close to her to... still vaporizing stuff that's close to her... :P

 

They both can support their allies, though to get Ember's damage you would need more people using fire on their weapons and I don't think that's practical. If I were to buff Ember, I'd probably buff Accelerant to also make allies deal X% additional fire damage to the debuffed targets.

Edited April 4, 2014 by VKhaun

[Faulcun]

OP I lost interest when you focused on her entire playability around pressing 4 to win.

[Cemges]

What you need to do, tone down blind rage a bit, dont use extra range mods, nor narrow minded. Get energy siphon, cause casting WoFwill also need you to cast Acc multiple timez, you need energy. Though dont spend any slot for flow.Well rush is simply too much, you need hp or shields. Also get ignis or some weapon with fire damage, even though ignis has very low dps, it hits multiple enemies + you will have 5x dps with accelerant.

[Vaskadar]

I find that her utility needs an improvement, honestly. What I'd like most is a combination of the old overheat with the new fire blast (except mobile), providing a slight damage resistance buff to teammates.

[Seanjuju]

First, i just realized there is no freeze ray weapon. Second, ember should have an ability called immolate because she has to.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Seanjuju

[Incarmine]

Accelerant should have some of the old overheat's damage reduction put back in. Either that or change the skill so that it adds fire damage to your and your team's weapons and your skills in an AoE, instead of causing enemies to be more vulnerable to fire. That way, even if teammates don't have an ignis they can benefit.

Edited April 4, 2014 by (PS4)Incarmine

[Monolake]

You know what's wrong with a DD/DPS class in this game? Its redundant because weapons are outDPSing skills in highlevels. And only relevant DD/DPS is Nova because she has 2 stackalbe AOE weapon damage multipliers.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

@OP

The only thing that I agree with is the speed buff. That's the only thing she really needs. It'd be nice if Fireblast was affected by stretch and tweaked a little, but Fireball, fine, Accelerant fine, WoF fine.

(oh and give Ember Prime her extra polarity mod back)

1st, why the hell are you fiddling around with so many corrupted mods? 2nd Why the Hell are you comparing her to Nova?! Nova is broken. 400% multiplier on AMD and MP, well the less said about that the better.

I can run with Intensify, Continuity, Stretch, Flow and Efficiency and get a 450 energy pool, with a regen after forma'ing the polarity slot to dash (energy siphon, corrosive projection for -30% armour and shield disruptor) best aura for Ember. Combining Accelerant (325%) with WoF with that basic set up I get 22,000 damage over about 13 seconds in a radius or 21m around Ember. That's without the -30% debuff to armour and shield from the auras. She'll wipe out infested in seconds and make a mess of Corpus, Grineer with the daft -30% damage reduction on their armour are the only ones which can give you pause.

Why use vitality? She has 15 armour, pointless. Rush it's nice, but not completely necessary. Vigor? not worth it. Redirection. That's all you need. 740 effective shields. That's the mod that will give the greatest benefit to Ember.

Fireball has splash damage and a 100% proc chance on the target it hits, maybe the splash could do with a 50% proc chance, that'd be nice.

Accelerant gives 325% damage buff to all heat based attacks, weapons, abilities,and mods, Roar gives 50% general, Loki's 400% damage buff is unique to melee attacks (i believe) and is only beneficial to him. So what are you talking about? It's a hugely beneficial power for her, and anyone else using fire damage weapons. It's a solid power in comparison to Loki's invis, and Rhino's all purpose Roar buff.

Mag's crush is crap outside of the Corpus given the damage table bias. MP is stupidly powerful (and no, saying it's balanced at lvl 60+ does not get it off the hook, it's a silly argument and no one should ever use it) Freeze, is a single target ability, a AoE CC freeze ability on it would help Frost no end, his powers lack any kind of CC, considering he was supposed to do CC, the lack of it is most painful.

Why would you want Fireblast to move? It'd just be a crappy WoF then. Give it a higher proc chance, or allow stretch to affect the initial blast radius, hell give it AoE stun or knock down, it's a blast after all. But why get it to move?

Finally if you are running straight at a mob of enemies, what did you expect? Apart from Valkyr or Rhino, maybe Frost, no frame will last more than 5 seconds running straight at an enemy spawn. Ember dying because you're trying to face tank is not a problem with Ember, it's a problem because you're trying to face tank. Nekros is crap, terrify is rubbish and SoTD is a waste of time and energy, doing more harm than good, the fact you think these are "good" powers simply torpedoes your credibility regarding WoF buffs.

Edited April 4, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Nyxcha]

No...

 

Accelerant is her late game skill. It works with guns and the debuff scales with power strength. You can get better bonuses with only fire on your guns than you can with rainbow, and using fewer mods allowing for more ammo/utility that translates to DPS through fewer reloads, multiple targets hit, etc.

 

It's also a clutch dodge that will stop any knockdown, and a short PBAoE stun that lets you take cover or quickly kill what's hurting you.

 

Ember Prime is my go-to high end damage dealer and Accelerant is the only skill I use.

so in short all of her skills are useless but accelerant according to you.

 

jeez, that makes it sound so much better, HEY GUYS she has 1 good skill. that makes her balanced (sense the sarcasm there?)

[Makemap]

OP I lost interest when you focused on her entire playability around pressing 4 to win.

Well I edited World on Fire since it is one of the skills that make her a pure caster unlike every other warframes. But, her fireball definately needs reworking. Added Fire Wall. Since enemies are being more buffed up Ember is having an extremely hard time surviving in the battlefield unlike the others.

 

Right now it is the grineers who are over buffed for Ember since Alpha mode. Corpus and Infested will probably soon have better units as seen on Grineer side. This is the right time to buff Ember up. Don't keep your hopes up that Accelerant will protect you against infested on later updates(for the people talking about Accelerant). Electric Crawlers are one example for Infested side to range Ember. I tried her at Jupiter and enemies are pretty dam accurate there with the new Corpus units dealing more damage than the past Corpus.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Makemap

[Axterix13]

Accelerant is sort of Ember's savior and her bane.  It buffs fire damage so much that her other powers have to be on the lower side when it comes to damage to compensate.

 

 

 

Right now it is the grineers who are over buffed for Ember since Alpha mode. Corpus and Infested will probably soon have better units as seen on Grineer side. This is the right time to buff Ember up. Don't keep your hopes up that Accelerant will protect you against infested on later updates(for the people talking about Accelerant). Electric Crawlers are one example for Infested side to range Ember. I tried her at Jupiter and enemies are pretty dam accurate there with the new Corpus units dealing more damage than the past Corpus.

Accelerant has a 20m radius.  It works fine on ranged units.

[Makemap]

Accelerant is sort of Ember's savior and her bane.  It buffs fire damage so much that her other powers have to be on the lower side when it comes to damage to compensate.

 

 

Accelerant has a 20m radius.  It works fine on ranged units.

Accelerant isn't permanent. It is duration. Ember is a warframe based on mob killing not stealth. Also she dies extremely fast at high level with no option to protect her, she isn't Frost with 190 armor. Quit thinking someone is going to use OP weapon with Ember because that isn't how Ember is truly meant to work. You basically want her to keep spamming Accelerant when mobs keep spawning? Accelerant isn't buff like Rhino's "Roar" it is a debuff to enemies like Terrify. New mobs will not get affected until she use her skill again. You may have the range, but you might not have the energy or power duration for it.

[Axterix13]

Accelerant isn't permanent. It is duration. Ember is a warframe based on mob killing not stealth. Also she dies extremely fast at high level with no option to protect her, she isn't Frost with 190 armor. Quit thinking someone is going to use OP weapon with Ember because that isn't how Ember is truly meant to work. You basically want her to keep spamming Accelerant when mobs keep spawning? Accelerant isn't buff like Rhino's "Roar" it is a debuff to enemies like Terrify. New mobs will not get affected until she use her skill again. You may have the range, but you might not have the energy or power duration for it.

Mostly irrelevant, and a bunch of it attempting to put words in mouth I didn't come remotely close to saying, and ones that declare I hold certain beliefs/views that I don't.  There's a reason I call it her bane.  I would like Accelerant's fire damage bonus nerfed drastically, and her other powers buffed up so they have more value by themselves.  I don't like what the current levels mean for her, that I have to use this extra power to be effective at a much earlier level than other frames.  Her earlier loss of effectiveness unless you use Accelerant is why I don't use her, when she was a frame I used quite a bit while I was leveling up.  And I've never used her with Ignis (which frankly isn't overpowered; it might even be the only AoE ranged weapon that one could consider remotely balanced).

 

But my own personal thoughts aside, I'm simply explaining why Ember's powers tend to do less damage.  The simple fact is that Ember can buff fire damage by 250% and that means the base damage on her abilities has to be lower than other frames.  She has the option to do more, so to balance that, she has to do less the rest of the time.  That's simple balance.  If she did as much as others and could spike it insanely, she'd be borked.  And yes, you need to use Accelerant as more mobs spawn.  But on the bright side, her other stuff has nice durations and you don't have to recast those every time (unlike, say, pretty much every other offensive power in the game).

 

As to protective options, Ember does have a few protective options.  Fireball's effect can stagger mobs, Accelerant stuns, Backdraft's lingering affect has some CC (and yes, Backdraft needs improving), and WoF doesn't require LoS (I've killed more than a few things with my Ember by dashing down a corridor and then hiding while WoF did its thing, although admittedly slower than the likes of Miasma, but on the bright side, no need to recast it all the time, so have benefits vs mobs spread out over several rooms).

 

So, short version of it: Accelerant is her savior and her bane.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Axterix13

[Nyxcha]

Accelerant isn't permanent. It is duration. Ember is a warframe based on mob killing not stealth. Also she dies extremely fast at high level with no option to protect her, she isn't Frost with 190 armor. Quit thinking someone is going to use OP weapon with Ember because that isn't how Ember is truly meant to work. You basically want her to keep spamming Accelerant when mobs keep spawning? Accelerant isn't buff like Rhino's "Roar" it is a debuff to enemies like Terrify. New mobs will not get affected until she use her skill again. You may have the range, but you might not have the energy or power duration for it.

w8w8w8 lets let them assume they are doing a high level battle with thier OP weapon.

 

 

nightmare mode, they are on ember with accelerant and ignis.

 

aka pretty close range weapons.

ember's got no survivability other than the 1 secound stun from accelerant. 

 

so. how will they react. to use their weapons they need to be up close. to an enemy that can 2 shot ember.

 

and except for a pistol, all thier skills/weapons are close range cause they built thier build around accelerant.

 

lets see them explain how they'd do it.

 

and for fun, lets make one of the enemys either a fire leader, blast leader, or ice leader.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Arenta

[Makemap]

w8w8w8 lets let them assume they are doing a high level battle with thier OP weapon.

 

 

nightmare mode, they are on ember with accelerant and ignis.

 

aka pretty close range weapons.

ember's got no survivability other than the 1 secound stun from accelerant. 

 

so. how will they react. to use their weapons they need to be up close. to an enemy that can 2 shot ember.

 

and except for a pistol, all thier skills/weapons are close range cause they built thier build around accelerant.

 

lets see them explain how they'd do it.

 

and for fun, lets make one of the enemys either a fire leader, blast leader, or ice leader.

I think you quoted the wrong person. As for the Axterix13 stagger isn't really that helpful. As i suggested knockdown for fireball is ideal because the enemies just block the door way especially when they keep spawning. You have to run when you have to run. Ember cannot escape after all.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Makemap

[Onihikage]

I would only change a few things about Ember, and they're small and simple things.

 

1) World on Fire's blasts will knock down, sure, that's fine.

2) Fireball needs to be the same huge explosive fireball that Sargas Ruk lobs at players at the beginning of that boss fight, great for a twitch CC ability like Pull, Sonic Boom, etc.

3) Ring of Fire could reduce the damage of incoming shots to some smaller fraction of heat damage (worth equipping Flame Retardant, Heat damage gets no bonus against shields & won't proc slash), while adding heat damage to the shots and melee attacks of players standing inside it. It would be like Electric Shield, but with fire.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Onihikage

[Nyxcha]

main problem in missions with infested is.

 

1. ember is close range

you try to pop your skills and they go off yes, but you get thrown around by ancients 

 

2. ancients ignore the world on fire explosions

 

3. ancients ignore accelerant and bum rush you

 

4. your close range....with no armor, no knockback resistance, and no dmg res.

so you get knocked around like someones *@##$

[IfritKajiTora]

3rd skill is sh*t I don't use this skill even -_-
4th skill should have 100% status chance, to make enemies to have animations.

Thats all. First and second skill is good enought. Maybe first skill little bigger AoE

[Phobose]

The way I see ember is that shes in need of support still. Fire blast is situational. Ive never seen this ability used very well other than one of 2 situations.

1) use it to block a doorway. This is counter productive for survivals and defense, you want them to come to you.

2) accelerant plus fire blast. Cool, I just used 2 abilities to kill a group of enemies.

Shes gunplay run and gun caster.

I refuse to be forced to change my gun configurations to specifically fit a single warframe, since I use all of them.

I also refuse to use the ignis to excel with ember because quite frankly, I dont like the ignis, just like how I dont like the Penta and I dont use the penta.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Phobose

[Nyxcha]

The way I see ember is that shes in need of support still. Fire blast is situational. Ive never seen this ability used very well other than one of 2 situations.

1) use it to block a doorway. This is counter productive for survivals and defense, you want them to come to you.

2) accelerant plus fire blast. Cool, I just used 2 abilities to kill a group of enemies.

Shes gunplay run and gun caster.

I refuse to be forced to change my gun configurations to specifically fit a single warframe, since I use all of them.

I also refuse to use the ignis to excel with ember because quite frankly, I dont like the ignis, just like how I dont like the Penta and I dont use the penta.

ok for number 2.

 

gratz. fireblast(75 energy or more if u using blind rage) plus accelerant(50 energy or more if u using blind range)  for how much dmg..in a small Aoe...

 

when you could have used World on Fire for more dmg, for less energy.

 

 

accelerant is useless

[Cemges]

Fact: her 3rd and 4th combined with accelerant blind rage build will have about 4k dps, to multiple, unlimited amount of enemies within range. You can keep spamming accelerant while 3rd and 4th are active, even having 10 enemies in range will result in 45k dps, which is not a small number. Combines with fire based weapons, especially rifle amp + ignis + wildfire + hellfire + accelerant, she will deal more than 25k aoe damage to her enemies. Her fire aoe skills are extremely strong. Only thing she lacka is protection, but accelerant even if isnt as good as radial blind, is a good stun ability.

[Nyxcha]

sure.

go into an orikin derelict survival or defense

and try to do what you preach when enemies are lv 50+

 

if the ancients dont kill you, they throw you around non stop

 

and a good stun ability, would last more than 1 secound (that, or be cheap to cast)

lets compare it to the biggest similar skill

 

Valkyr's paralysis.

Cost. 5 energy

stun time ~4 secounds plus a push back

(melee dmg boost is irrelevant, as this is a nice skill for getting out of bad situations)

 

summary, an easy spammable stun for when you need to stay alive(as if valkyr didnt have enough utility)

 

Ember's Accelerant

Cost. 50 energy

stun time 1 secound

15 secound duration on fire dmg buff only to enemies that were in range when you used the skill

(it doesn't follow you around for the duration causing that buff to all enemies in range)

(hence it isnt that good for when your running around with world on fire as you keep having to stop to recast accelerant, and as such get smacked like an ancient's *@##$)

or you can sit in fire blast and spam accelerant, and get smacked around like an ancient's *@##$.

 

of coarse, this is all IF you are vsing infested. (of which the ancients will run straight through your fire blast,  and all infested run straight through world on fire with no knockdowns, staggers, and so on)

 

if you vsing grinner, corpus, corrupted....well they are ranged.

and you are a short range paper armored  slow &#! target.

 

did i mention you'll be smacked around?

 

 

i've played ember prime alot recently(cause i spent so long getting her)

and i'm not kidding, you get smacked around so often when you try to use accelerant and world on fire.

 

i've given up on fire blast cause..well its just not appealing.

 

and i end up using fireball alot cause ember is a slow, non armored, non knockback resistance, class who needs to keep her distance to survive.

yes i've used ignis with her, and that doesnt stop her getting smacked around because despite the dmg, enemys have enough hp to make it to you and hit you before dying.

 

meanwhile Nyx is also close range, but she can handle close range with her 3 and 4 skills

Valkyr...goddess 

Trinity, link.  she sits and laughs in the middle of the melee

Saryn, has armor, and a decoy, so she can get in the melee for her skills

loki, well...a melee is alot mroe fun when 1. they cant see you and 2. they dont have guns anymore

necros, weeee run and give me easy kills

and Vauban. just fun 

 

see something there?