Saryn Build Improvements?

[OldGodKing]

Any possible improvements for this Saryn build? Pretty much just a Miasma build. I wanted a nuker but also something that was a lot more flexible than a Nova, since Nova is boring as hell for me. Also, is it possible to make a similar build like this but with less Forma added to it?

 

http://goo.gl/9n5jHi

[Angius]

I'd put some more levels on Blind Rage, unless you want to spam it.

[Jiminez_Burial]

I would say to drop corrosive projection in favor of energy siphon.  Saryn is already heavily suited to taking out armoured enemies, so why lessen what she is against?  energy siphon will give that extra spammability, so it is good for Saryn when a single miasma will no longer one hit enemies.

[Darzk]

I'd put some more levels on Blind Rage, unless you want to spam it.

I would say to drop corrosive projection in favor of energy siphon.  Saryn is already heavily suited to taking out armoured enemies, so why lessen what she is against?  energy siphon will give that extra spammability, so it is good for Saryn when a single miasma will no longer one hit enemies.

 

DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE.

 

BR is perfectly ranked for maximum damage/energy. If anything you might rank it to R7 for more DPS but less energy, but only if you don't have energy issues... frankly, just no, @ 25e is perfect.

 

Corrosive Projection is awesome and everyone should always use it against Grineer/Corrupted. While admittedly it doesn't affect Corrosive damage against Ferrite targets as much, it'll still up damage against alloy armor and increase weapon and teammate damage by a ton.

 

The only thing wonky with the build is the completely bizarre Steel Fiber. That's just a bad choice, imo. I'd rather use Vigor for a little bit of shielding and more health, or use Equilibrium to restore health after taking health damage to charge abilities. 

Edit: To clarify, SF adds 630 ehp, but doesn't increase the energy potential from synergy with Rage. Vigor adds 513 ehp, but also 72 energy potential, almost enough for 3 more Miasmas.

 

Also, if you forma to overwrite an ability or two, you can reduce the number of forma needed to make the build.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Darzk

[BerserkingAce]

i personally would switch out steel fiber for redirection and rage for rush, because the range of miasma isn't all that great and she already is kinda slow

 

edit: and yes switch out the aura for energy siphon

Edited April 4, 2014 by BerserkingAce

[OldGodKing]

DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE.

 

BR is perfectly ranked for maximum damage/energy. If anything you might rank it to R7 for more DPS but less energy, but only if you don't have energy issues... frankly, just no, @ 25e is perfect.

 

Corrosive Projection is awesome and everyone should always use it against Grineer/Corrupted. While admittedly it doesn't affect Corrosive damage against Ferrite targets as much, it'll still up damage against alloy armor and increase weapon and teammate damage by a ton.

 

The only thing wonky with the build is the completely bizarre Steel Fiber. That's just a bad choice, imo. I'd rather use Vigor for a little bit of shielding and more health, or use Equilibrium to restore health after taking health damage to charge abilities. 

Edit: To clarify, SF adds 630 ehp, but doesn't increase the energy potential from synergy with Rage. Vigor adds 513 ehp, but also 72 energy potential, almost enough for 3 more Miasmas.

 

Also, if you forma to overwrite an ability or two, you can reduce the number of forma needed to make the build.

 

Ah, good point regarding Steel Fiber. Less damage = less converted energy, I guess. Let's say if I chose to use Energy Siphon instead of CP, what kind of build would work with it? Despite the advantages Vigor has over SF, is an extra 120 shields and 180 HP be worth the cost of 11 points? Personally it does feel like a waste to me. And tbh, I'm seriously considering removing Blind Rage entirely and reducing Streamline to R2. That slight damage increase won't really matter once I reach the 1hr mark in Survivals anyway. I can only really rely on the AoE stun from Miasma and Molt.

 

After removing SF, I can reduce the Forma to 3 at most. And the last slot could be either Handspring or Rush. But if I remove BR, I can include both instead. Since I see Saryn as more of a mix between Rhino and Loki, I think there could be some justifications in using Handspring and Rush on her. Rhino and Loki wouldn't need Handspring because they have means to avoid getting knocked down or avoid getting hit entirely. Whereas Saryn has traits of both but she can't fully prevent knockdowns apart from the short invulnerability she gets from casting Miasma. Surprisingly, Rush works wonders with Molt as far as I've seen. Since Molt isn't as flexible as Decoy, she will need Rush to quickly get out of fire after placing Molt and manually detonating it for that quick stun. It makes her focus on speed more than Loki.

 

But then again, I may be missing something if I don't see others use it. Saryn's easily my favorite right now so I wanna perfect her.

 

i personally would switch out steel fiber for redirection and rage for rush, because the range of miasma isn't all that great and she already is kinda slow

 

edit: and yes switch out the aura for energy siphon

 

But if I remove Rage, I can't benefit with more energy from the bonus that is her high HP. Steel Fiber will most likely be swapped out for some utility mod. If I were to use Rush, it wouldn't be because she's slow. Tbh, she's not really slow at all. I've been using a Rhino w/ the Thrak helm and no Rush mod for quite a long time so anything above 0.85 sprint speed feels fast for me. I would use Rush mainly to be able to cast Molt strategically and get the hell out fast before I can pulverized by Napalms and such.

 

Since I'm using Corrosive Projection, I could switch it out for Energy Siphon if I use a different build, so yeah that would work.

Edited April 5, 2014 by AxialBlue

[Darzk]

Sad but true, a fast melee weapon is what you're looking for for the Molt->Escape. As much as I hate abusing zorencopter etc it really does work well.

 

For higher levels if we're going to throw out dealing damage, and use Miasma as a quick stun, I would agree with you; ditch BR and use the Hemlock Helm. You'll lose about 21.5% damage off Miasma tho, a pretty big loss.

 

Damage will start to add up against you faster than you can burn off the energy gains at higher levels, which is why I like to use shields.

While keeping Vital/Rage builds, I can see using SF then... maybe even Flow/QT which would be a nice increase in ehp - around 1500 ehp.

 

Basically there's a whole ton of viable ways to build Saryn, depending on level/faction as well as personal preference. There's not really a one size fits all build for her. Especially when playing around with Rage builds, builds will work differently for different players. A static, non-mobile player will be wrecked without redirection or at least vigor, while a really mobile and aware player might not see any benefit from Rage at all.

 

Personally, I like to ditch vital and build redirect/vigor at higher levels and focus on never taking health damage, with rage still slotted just for emergencies and to feed energy from bleeds.

[OldGodKing]

Based on the various suggestions, this is what I've settled for after field-testing a bit.

 

http://goo.gl/7Llc87

 

Since I personally don't care too much about damage, Corrosive Projection wouldn't be necessary on my build + I'm more of a team player so I decided to stick with Rejuvenation. Standard Rejuv + Vit + Rage combo for that Rhino tankiness and Rush for the needed speed boost to match herself up with Loki's speed. Will switch to Hemlock when I get it. Focusing mainly on utility with Miasma and Molt.

 

Can put in any mod I want in that last empty slot. Can be Vigor, Handspring or whatever else that fits the 11 cost. Or if I want more range with Miasma, I can remove Intensify, put Rage in its place and include Overextended. Just an overall balanced build IMHO and suits my playstyle just right.

Edited April 5, 2014 by AxialBlue

[Darzk]

Well then, if we don't care about Damage, why not make Miasma more useful? Swap Intensify for Continuity, drop FE a rank and swap out the Cholora helm and it'll stun for an extra second. Then drop in Over Extended to increase the range to a 35 radius around you.

 

Course Molt is gonna evaporate like wet tissue paper, but should still distract long enough for a quick escape.

[Noble_Cactus]

In my opinion, you'd be more of a team player using a - polarity on the Aura for Corrosive Projection and Energy Siphon. Rejuv is nice, but after a certain point, enemies start dealing so much damage that you won't really be able to heal it off in time. THat, and if you're going that high you most likely have a Trinity anyway. CP provides a teamwide damage buff against the game's tankiest enemies, and ES gives your team more mana.

 

But that's just my suggestion. If you're taking her into lower levels, Rejuv is fine. And you could always forma her until you have enough points to swap out CP/ES and Rejuv with the mismatching polarity.

[OldGodKing]

Well then, if we don't care about Damage, why not make Miasma more useful? Swap Intensify for Continuity, drop FE a rank and swap out the Cholora helm and it'll stun for an extra second. Then drop in Over Extended to increase the range to a 35 radius around you.

 

Course Molt is gonna evaporate like wet tissue paper, but should still distract long enough for a quick escape.

 

I suppose I forgot to mention one important thing. I'm using Miasma mostly to stun the heavies but with enough power strength to wipe out the small fries like Butchers, Stingers, Powerfists, Shield Lancers, Crewmen, Runners, Chargers etc. I don't care too much about damage when I know that one-shotting higher leveled heavies is pretty much impossible but at least help me to clear out the room of the nuisances so that I can concentrate on the heavies. I'm not good with math so I don't know the calculations on where to cap my power strength. With Intensify, I can still OHKO heavies around lv20 or so. Continuity at R3 + FE at R4 makes Miasma's stun last for 4 secs so increasing the rank for Continuity won't do anything. I'm ok with Overextended at R2 w/ 28.5m together with Stretch but again, I'm not good with math so I'm not sure about the negative effects on Power Strength.

 

Looking at it now, Intensify only adds like 150 additional HP to Molt so that's not worthwhile at all but careful placements can prevent the decoy from dying taking hits, mostly. I mainly use Molt to lure the small fries to it and manually detonating it to wipe them out w/o wasting ammo on them.

 

In my opinion, you'd be more of a team player using a - polarity on the Aura for Corrosive Projection and Energy Siphon. Rejuv is nice, but after a certain point, enemies start dealing so much damage that you won't really be able to heal it off in time. THat, and if you're going that high you most likely have a Trinity anyway. CP provides a teamwide damage buff against the game's tankiest enemies, and ES gives your team more mana.

 

But that's just my suggestion. If you're taking her into lower levels, Rejuv is fine. And you could always forma her until you have enough points to swap out CP/ES and Rejuv with the mismatching polarity.

 

 

That does sound reasonable. I'm just more keen on Rejuvenation after all my time playing a full-on tanky Rhino with the Rejuv + Vit + Rage combo. I'll be sure to take your advice into consideration. I just need to polarize two of my mod slots before I can properly test out the Auras and decide what to really keep for "end game".

 

Thank you. =)

Edited April 6, 2014 by AxialBlue

[Darzk]

Continuity at R3 + FE at R4 makes Miasma's stun last for 4 secs so increasing the rank for Continuity won't do anything.

 

Continuity at R3 is +20%, FE at R4 is -50%, so -30% total, or (4*.7+1, rounded up) 4 ticks total, for a 4 second stun.

Continuity at R5 is +30%, FE at R4 is -50%, so -20% total, or (4*.8+1, rounded up) 5 ticks total, for a 5 second stun.

 

If you still want to do damage with Miasma and Molt I wouldn't use Overextended at all, and just live with the smaller range.

 

 

If you want to do damage with Miasma, minimizing duration is equally important to adding power strength. If you're okay with a 4 second stun, which you should be used to, you want to have just over 50% duration; etc a rank 0 continuity (or chlora helm) and Rank 4 Fleeting. Or a rank 2 and r5.

 

Using -45% duration in total will increase the base damage of Miasma to (1500*(1+2.2)/2.2) 2181.8, as opposed to your proposed setup of -30%, which deals (1500*(1+2.8)/2.8) = 2035.7, or my 5 second stun setup, which only deals (1500*(1+3.2)/3.2) 1968.8.

 

So using -45% duration will give you the same stun length, and +7.1% (10.8% over the 5 sec stun) damage. Amusingly, that's this build: http://goo.gl/7Llc87

 

Also, Molt has a duration component, but its not as important. If the skin runs out of duration before it dies or is manually detonated, it'll deal double damage. Having a shorter duration might make that more likely.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Darzk

[OldGodKing]

Continuity at R3 is +20%, FE at R4 is -50%, so -30% total, or (4*.7+1, rounded up) 4 ticks total, for a 4 second stun.

Continuity at R5 is +30%, FE at R4 is -50%, so -20% total, or (4*.8+1, rounded up) 5 ticks total, for a 5 second stun.

 

If you still want to do damage with Miasma and Molt I wouldn't use Overextended at all, and just live with the smaller range.

 

 

If you want to do damage with Miasma, minimizing duration is equally important to adding power strength. If you're okay with a 4 second stun, which you should be used to, you want to have just over 50% duration; etc a rank 0 continuity (or chlora helm) and Rank 4 Fleeting. Or a rank 2 and r5.

 

Using -45% duration in total will increase the base damage of Miasma to (1500*(1+2.2)/2.2) 2181.8, as opposed to your proposed setup of -30%, which deals (1500*(1+2.8)/2.8) = 2035.7, or my 5 second stun setup, which only deals (1500*(1+3.2)/3.2) 1968.8.

 

So using -45% duration will give you the same stun length, and +7.1% (10.8% over the 5 sec stun) damage. Amusingly, that's this build: http://goo.gl/7Llc87

 

Also, Molt has a duration component, but its not as important. If the skin runs out of duration before it dies or is manually detonated, it'll deal double damage. Having a shorter duration might make that more likely.

 

So I've been going in circles the entire time? xD

I'm better than I thought I was (jk, lol)~ Looks like that's what I'll be going for then. Thanks again for all your help. =)

[Darzk]

Thanks again for all your help. =)

No problem. 'Twas fun.

 

However, I've managed to confuse myself now and have no idea what goes in that last slot. Think it's user optional.

 

Options are: Continuity, R4 Streamline and dropping a point in FE for longer but less damaging Miasma, Blind Rage R2 and capping Streamline for more damage to Miasma and Molt, or Vigor for more Health/EnergyFromHealth and a bigger shield buffer before taking health damage.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Darzk

[OldGodKing]

No problem. 'Twas fun.

 

However, I've managed to confuse myself now and have no idea what goes in that last slot. Think it's user optional.

 

Options are: Continuity, R4 Streamline and dropping a point in FE for longer but less damaging Miasma, Blind Rage R2 and capping Streamline for more damage to Miasma and Molt, or Vigor for more Health/EnergyFromHealth and a bigger shield buffer before taking health damage.

Yeah, that's the idea. You're supposed to put in whatever that suits your playstyle in that last slot.

[Noble_Cactus]

Considering Molt can be used as a quick aggro dump, a shorter duration might not be too great a loss. If you can copter perpendicular to a line of enemies and deploy the Molt mid-flight, you'll land on the other side with few or no enemies noticing you. Then you can Miasma/shoot them down. Though personally I'd rather have the longer stun to use after the decoy. Darn you and your screwed up math, Saryn.

 

Then there's also the matter of whether or not Contagion will become useful in the new Melee system. Of course, using melee is up to individual preference, and whether or not it will be viable at high levels remains to be seen. But it's something worth considering, and something to which we might have to return come Wednesday.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[OldGodKing]

Just something I've been wondering for a bit but does Molt has like a range on it? Like a range where it stops luring or aggro-ing enemies towards it? Because I've noticed that sometimes even though the decoy is near an enemy, some of them will still come after me instead of the decoy.

Edited April 7, 2014 by AxialBlue