The Eurasia Problem - Revisited, Yet Again

[AcquisCommunitaire]

I am thoroughly fed up at how no one on the development team cares about this node. There has been plenty of topics on this and it is unanimous amongst all players that this node is a problem. Not just 'a' problem; it's a huge problem.

 

Supposedly, the DEs have tried out this node with gear they claim to be accessible to players who play up to Earth. I really do wonder what this marvelous gear is. From what I know, all weapons bar credit-purchasable weapons are available to players. These new players are players who just got into the game and who have little to no experience with playing the game. It is unreasonable to expect them to play with the skill of MR 15 players. The best they have is an MK1 braton or braton or strun. It is obvious even to the most oblivious player that these weapons are less than satisfactory in this mission where you are surrounded by hundreds of enemies.

 

If this Eurasia node is such 'great fun' then I do suggest the least that could be done is to place it on a side node. I'm sick of trying to carry new players just to see 2-3 fire/ice/energy/life leaders/heavies/bombards 1-2 hit kill them. This leaves new players dissatisfied with this game, and would be more than likely to invest their money in another game. It is like the developers here are trying to cut off their source of income.

 

The Eurasia node is not salvageable at this stage. With the developers refusing to budge, this is my suggestion to new players who are stuck on this mission:

open up the chat and on 'region' or 'recruiting', ask whether a kind-hearted player could host Mantle, the node after Eurasia, and continue onwards. It is fruitless to play hours of Eurasia.

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Interception will most likely be fixed in U13. Patience.

[Momoynator]

We'll see if they do something about it come U13. DE is known for listening but their decisions to act are usually a little delayed. Until then, keep helping people thru Eurasia like you have been doing and I'm doing that too lol. Have nothing better to do anyways :P

[xlraistlx]

Interception will most likely be fixed in U13. Patience.

The thing is several times has been said that is working as intended (not exact words), I doubt this is gonna change any time soon.

 

The "best" thing we can do is keep comming to eurasia and help them. Nothing more.

[immolator1001]

I played with my friend who is new to the game and gimped myself so I was at roughly the same level. You know what really made it hard? The new people who didn't understand how to play the mission. My friend and I were able to hold our towers, but nearly lost because the 2 other people were running around not holding the towers.

Edited April 5, 2014 by immolator1001

[Lost_Cartographer]

It's funny.  DE seems to always rush an make something harder when the vets complain it's too easy, but when people agree it's too hard, they act stumped like everything is working as intended.

 

Look, Eurasia has turned into a cockblock.  Vor actually isn't that much friendlier to newbs.  Stalker is still a cheap death unless your mods are maxxed out (that's all they need, another reason to give up when something they can't avoid ups and one shots them.)

 

It's okay for a game to be hard... eventually.  Being hard right away when it isn't optional isn't good for business.

[Solus_Ipse]

The real issue isn't Eurasia/Stalker/whatever is hard, its that they're poorly designed and thus 'cheap.' Face it...is there any skill on the part of the player besides coming with a certain Warframe/weapon loadout and shooting/spamming AOE skils?

 

The reason why vets complain about everything being too easy is because some Warframes and most weapons maxed out simply become OP, completely nullifying the 'cheap' factor making enemies either easy or merely annoying.

 

Eurasia is difficult because the spawns come constantly without stopping and enemies can instantly recapture towers while you cannot. That's it. There's no real skill involved besides being able to stand around, take cover, and shoot enemies accurately. In fact the spawn rates would be far more suitable for survival, and yet in some solo survival missions its easy to be forced out at 5-10 min because spawns are so few you couldn't hope to get enough life support without a Nekros.

 

Stalker similarly is either "you can kill me as I spawn or I murder you." You can't reliably dodge his attacks due to his combined mobility, ability to teleport you, slash dash, and use of absorb after he starts moving. Worst is that you have to be able to deal a certain amount of damage to get past his shields - ammo is limited, melee is worthless; the solution isn't playing better but merely playing with overpowered weaponry at all times.

[Xylia]

Interception will most likely be fixed in U13. Patience.

 

Meanwhile, new players are quitting in frustration because of how freaking hard this node can be (if you're not overly geared).

 

You have any idea how many newbies I see in this node? A lot of them. And a lot of the time, I end up being 90% of the damage output in a 4-man team. And just trying to get ONE interception completion done is tedious.

 

DE needs to redesign Earth's map and stick Eurasia off the beaten path, so that a newbie can just skip it until they are properly geared.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Xylia

[Taranis49]

We'll see if they do something about it come U13. DE is known for listening but their decisions to act are usually a little delayed. Until then, keep helping people thru Eurasia like you have been doing and I'm doing that too lol. Have nothing better to do anyways :P

 

Sadly, the most recent standard I've noticed is that more often than not, they actually don't listen and won't admit they're wrong about the difficulty of a given mission until they get humiliated on Prime Time. Eurasia/Lua being the most notable examples, they maintained it was fine and dandy for weeks right up until they tackled it with overgeared frames/weapons and still wound up eating humble pie.

[mpastor]

All folks I know dont think this is overly hard.  It can be a challenge though.  So you comment about unanimity is a little off. The toughest thing about this mission is getting idiots to wait for four people to join before running off to be a hero.  There are not but 200 guys to kill in maybe 8 minutes of play. All you have to do is sit at a tower and kill roughly on average one guy every 2 or 3 seconds.  And that is to dominate.   

 

 

Also, I noticed someone claimed this was lazy design.  My jaw dropped to that comment.  Lazy design is dropping a players shield to zero and calling it an elite level of play.  Eurasia is the opposite of lazy. This probably is the most well designed mission in the system.  Granted it is the most complex, and I know that really causes some to have nightmares. Sure you can brute force it. I guess one problem is brute force is all many people know.  If you brute force it though you need very high capabilities. But if you play with any smarts at all you can perform well at a much much lower level.

 

Missions like this can be unpopular to people who think everything should be brute forceable.

[Xylia]

All folks I know dont think this is overly hard.  It can be a challenge though.  So you comment about unanimity is a little off. The toughest thing about this mission is getting idiots to wait for four people to join before running off to be a hero.  There are not but 200 guys to kill in maybe 8 minutes of play. All you have to do is sit at a tower and kill roughly on average one guy every 2 or 3 seconds.  And that is to dominate.   

 

 

Also, I noticed someone claimed this was lazy design.  My jaw dropped to that comment.  Lazy design is dropping a players shield to zero and calling it an elite level of play.  Eurasia is the opposite of lazy. This probably is the most well designed mission in the system.  Granted it is the most complex, and I know that really causes some to have nightmares. Sure you can brute force it. I guess one problem is brute force is all many people know.  If you brute force it though you need very high capabilities. But if you play with any smarts at all you can perform well at a much much lower level.

 

Missions like this can be unpopular to people who think everything should be brute forceable.

 

How many of your friends are in Excaliburs that have nothing but Redirection with no Damage Mods on their credit-bought guns?

 

Now obviously I can take my Rhino in there with an Ogris and sit on the balcony and pick everybody off by chain-firing Ogris rockets while covering 3 of the 4 caps, but that doesn't mean everybody can do that.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Xylia

[mpastor]

How many of your friends are in Excaliburs that have nothing but Redirection with no Damage Mods on their credit-bought guns?

 

Now obviously I can take my Rhino in there with an Ogris and sit on the balcony and pick everybody off by chain-firing Ogris rockets while covering 3 of the 4 caps, but that doesn't mean everybody can do that.

 

none.  Volts, Ash, Trinity, Frost, and of course Loki

[Xylia]

none.  Volts, Ash, Trinity, Frost, and of course Loki

 

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point.

 

IE, NOT newbies, which are mostly the people who are stuck on this awful mission.

 

This mission should be off the main path like Apollodorus for the same reason Apollodorus is on a side-path.

[mpastor]

What do you mean not newbies. Lots of people buy their frames at the start (in fact I bet most people do).  Why go to the time to level intro frames when you can get the one you like from the start for less cash than a movie ticket costs.  Everyone is not a dumb noob who does no background game checking before diving in.  Me and others I know played an hour or so with the intro frame, then looked over what was available and started.  New player is not defined by someone who plays an intro frame or only abides free to play.  Outside of Loki, I typically see a whole slew of different frames people use to start.  I bought a volt, it cost me $2.50, but I would have paid $10.

 

I have a friend who got the stalker set.  Me, I could not decide on a weapon until i used it, so I went through the process of building braton... burston... latron...karak... tetra...  all while I played through the system.  I discarded volt for loki ironically since volt's powers scale very poorly.

 

I actually know no one personally who plays with an Excalibur.  I think any self respecting online gamer would shy away from a character who is advertised as a good frame for new players.  Let me guess, you didn't.  Sorry... no offense.  I bet he looked good on you though.

[GraalOhOtonami]

What do you mean not newbies. Lots of people buy their frames at the start (in fact I bet most people do).  Why go to the time to level intro frames when you can get the one you like from the start for less cash than a movie ticket costs.  Everyone is not a dumb noob who does no background game checking before diving in.  Me and others I know played an hour or so with the intro frame, then looked over what was available and started.  New player is not defined by someone who plays an intro frame or only abides free to play.  Outside of Loki, I typically see a whole slew of different frames people use to start.  I bought a volt, it cost me $2.50, but I would have paid $10.

 

I have a friend who got the stalker set.  Me, I could not decide on a weapon until i used it, so I went through the process of building braton... burston... latron...karak... tetra...  all while I played through the system.  I discarded volt for loki ironically since volt's powers scale very poorly.

 

I actually know no one personally who plays with an Excalibur.  I think any self respecting online gamer would shy away from a character who is advertised as a good frame for new players.  Let me guess, you didn't.  Sorry... no offense.  I bet he looked good on you though.

Snide.

You know, I'd not spent a penny on this game until I'd filled out at least 4 Warframes, my brother started with Excal, I with Volt, can you guess who killed more?

Your assumptions that people put in the research is not only generalising yourself, but discounting those who don't.

Those who put in the research are making the game easier, those who don't probably don't know they need to/should, or don't know where to look and are just looking for a damn good time. Lay off.

[Methanoid]

I played with my friend who is new to the game and gimped myself so I was at roughly the same level. You know what really made it hard? The new people who didn't understand how to play the mission. My friend and I were able to hold our towers, but nearly lost because the 2 other people were running around not holding the towers.

 

out of interest what frame+mods and wpn+mods did you end up using?

[Methanoid]

All folks I know dont think this is overly hard.  It can be a challenge though.  So you comment about unanimity is a little off. The toughest thing about this mission is getting idiots to wait for four people to join before running off to be a hero.  There are not but 200 guys to kill in maybe 8 minutes of play. All you have to do is sit at a tower and kill roughly on average one guy every 2 or 3 seconds.  And that is to dominate.   

 

and you can do that with a mk1 braton that has no serration or lato with no hornet strike yeah?   and killing non stop spawns while not running out of ammo, and ofc as your not "running off anywhere" your ammo pool will remain nice and high while your pumping an entire clip into the face of just 1 grineer?

[Methanoid]

to anyone who thinks its "easymode" make a new acount now, go play your way to earth eurasia/lua, use nothign but what you pickup, no trading mods with clanmates, just pug your way there with what you get naturally.

 

report back your findings having "cleared" lua/eurasia easily, better yet, fraps/bancidam it and show us all how wrong we are \o/

[mpastor]

to anyone who thinks its "easymode" make a new acount now, go play your way to earth eurasia/lua, use nothign but what you pickup, no trading mods with clanmates, just pug your way there with what you get naturally.

 

report back your findings having "cleared" lua/eurasia easily, better yet, fraps/bancidam it and show us all how wrong we are \o/

 

That's exactly what I did.  Got rid of MK as soon as I could.  MK braton and braton are not the same gun, by a long shot.  Loki while invisible get double damage on melee.  YOu can one slash all trash and three slash (give or take) more substantial foes.  Pressure point is pathetically easy to get.  A braton with some basic mods (even buffing 10% critical helps) kills trash grineer in about a second or two burst.  Good FPS skills and use of cover when necessary and good use of powers is critical.   

 

All in all you are called on maybe to kill 50 or 60 guys over the course of 8 minutes or so.  If you have trouble doing that, then yes. Things can get ugly.  In my Eurasian match... we killed a total of around 200.  

Edited April 6, 2014 by mpastor

[Methanoid]

fraps plox?

 

it aitn that easy even with a regular braton, esp with no dmg mods, and you certainly cant down packs of mobs very quickly without bleeding out and sucking floor, even moreso when theres leaders all over the place with bombards/etc.

[Taranis49]

Snide.

You know, I'd not spent a penny on this game until I'd filled out at least 4 Warframes, my brother started with Excal, I with Volt, can you guess who killed more?

Your assumptions that people put in the research is not only generalising yourself, but discounting those who don't.

Those who put in the research are making the game easier, those who don't probably don't know they need to/should, or don't know where to look and are just looking for a damn good time. Lay off.

 

Likewise, and that's typically how Free to play games work, i.e. most players don't pay to begin with - I didn't put money down on the game when I first started, afterall. While it's an old thread (as you can tell from the UI in the screenshots), the points are still valid, particularly since in some cases the prices seem to have actually gone higher than they were back then.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/52192-the-warframe-market-is-a-joke-and-actively-discourages-impulse-purchases-updated-includes-solution-to-installed-catalystsweapon-slot-on-weapons/

 

Just to buy a single weapon or frame requires dropping up to 20 bucks on the game, you can't even get a pretty basic weapon like the Latron with a ten dollar plat package (it costs 225 plat).

 

Hell, one of my clan members (who actually has an economics degree, incidentally) discussed this almost a year ago: the utility stuff (weapons, frames, etc.) are generally overpriced so people don't buy them: note that you don't see frames like Trinity or the like in the "popular" section of the market. Ironically, you can see DE adopted some of the suggestions he made back then: e.g. the inclusion of new, plat-only skins and the anniversary Proto-Armor skin in particular.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55065-warframe-market-suggestion-cut-prices-give-veblen-goods/

Edited April 6, 2014 by Taranis49

[mpastor]

With ten dollars you can buy a latron or any other $225 cost item if you use 50 plat you get at log. If you get a shop discount at login you can save up to 50%. So you'd statement is false. I am cheap though. I find all store items over priced too. A good thing too cuz if reasonably priced, I might buy more stuff.

Most ftp games... Let alone MMO's have literal road blocks to advancement without cash. Or you are stuck with noob crap till you farm the crap out of the game. This one is unusual in that it doesn't. I am curious what successful FTP MMO doesn't or didn't initially until they achieved large success?

Edit: actually $10 typically gets you only 220 plat when you count noob plat.

Edited April 6, 2014 by mpastor

[TargetDummy]

With ten dollars you can buy a latron or any other $225 cost item if you use 50 plat you get at log. If you get a shop discount at login you can save up to 50%. So you'd statement is false. I am cheap though. I find all store items over priced too. A good thing too cuz if reasonably priced, I might buy more stuff.

Most ftp games... Let alone MMO's have literal road blocks to advancement without cash. Or you are stuck with noob crap till you farm the crap out of the game. This one is unusual in that it doesn't. I am curious what successful FTP MMO doesn't or didn't initially until they achieved large success?

If F2P game forces you to pay after 1-2 days of gameplay, it is very bad.

Recently I have invited 4 IRL friends into Warframe and I know how much problems they have from the begining. Trying to convince them that this game is not THAT bad as thay face it (with filthy language at some moments) from begining, explaining game mechanics... And then that interception mission wall... ...that will convince them to pay for this game? Sure, sure.

[Gildarts_bb]

i spend half my game time EVERYDAY helping new players past this wall, it is ridiculous if i had hit this much of wall when i started i would have most likely quit thinking it was simply poor level design or a specific paywall designed to bilk people out of their money. its really sad the the thing i am hoping for in U13 is for this to be fixed... not the new melee system not the new warframe, weapons, nothing but this. how sad is that?    

[GraalOhOtonami]

That's exactly what I did.  Got rid of MK as soon as I could.  MK braton and braton are not the same gun, by a long shot.  Loki while invisible get double damage on melee.  YOu can one slash all trash and three slash (give or take) more substantial foes.  Pressure point is pathetically easy to get.  A braton with some basic mods (even buffing 10% critical helps) kills trash grineer in about a second or two burst.  Good FPS skills and use of cover when necessary and good use of powers is critical.   

 

All in all you are called on maybe to kill 50 or 60 guys over the course of 8 minutes or so.  If you have trouble doing that, then yes. Things can get ugly.  In my Eurasian match... we killed a total of around 200.  

Try doing this with the frame that's advertised for new players, or Mag.