(PSN)Hooligonzo Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Look, DE, this is ridiculous. The bolt is a great mechanic, I'm not going to pretend it isn't, but we have a problem here with its recipe. Seriously, here's the components list for a bolt release: 1 Morphics 1 Neurodes 1 Neural Sensors 20 Oxium It's not like we're swimming in Neural Sensors in Warframe. It's already ridiculous, hilarious, and freakin' dumb that we have to go bully Alad V whenever we need some, since he's the only fight that reliably drops them. That's pretty important, okay - Alad V is on Jupiter, which makes this pain-in-the-&#! component an exceptional pain-in-the-&#! for new players. So why isn't the 20 Oxium enough? It's a scarce enough component with few applications and this is a great one. It's accessible pretty early in. Its source is diversely located, but it will only drop 1-3 at a time. It's a great component. Neural Sensors? Not so much. Plus - and this is also super important, so please take note - there are less-than-honest means to totally avoid receiving a bolt if the Grustrag Three party-crash a mission into abject failure. Since I don't condone that sort of playing, I'm not going to get into the How, as half of everyone at least already knows how, but let's remember how astoundingly easy it is to pull that dirty trick. So how about it, DE? Let's, ya know, show some love and yank the Neural Sensors out of the Bolt Release recipe, eh? Edited April 5, 2014 by (PS4)Hooligantuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaverett Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) Io and Elara on Jupiter drop sensors a lot. Plus, it's just one sensor you need. Why do you complain? Edited April 5, 2014 by Seaverett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.No.Hikari Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 50 Neural Sensors and nothing to spend them on expect Forma and Taters, I honestly welcome the fact that that's part of the recipe if anything I'd add 20 Control mods to it just for fairness sakes. You may not have a lot of materials but some long time players are swimming in rare mats, I remember a guy saying he had close to 300O-Cells even after making all the primed gear and forma he needed. Plus I think it maks sense adding the Nerual Sensor it's like having to hack the lock that the Bolts have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arisaka Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I don't understand why everything in this game has to be done with resources. I understand that it's a core mechanism, but all the resource cost for the G3 bolt does is screw over anyone that isn't a veteran and doesn't have crazy amounts of rare resources that render the cost negligible. It's not a fair punishment because the vets wouldn't be punished at all while the newbies (mastery 2-4) unfortunate to get one when a party member calls down the G3 would be completely screwed. I suggest a (gasp) level/gear independent (GASP) challenge to remove the bolt, or a 6 hour wait for the bolt to expire. However, I haven't come up with any ideas of what that challenge would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawzberry Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 You should be complaining about the stupid drop tables instead bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachC Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 50 Neural Sensors and nothing to spend them on expect Forma and Taters, I honestly welcome the fact that that's part of the recipe if anything I'd add 20 Control mods to it just for fairness sakes. You may not have a lot of materials but some long time players are swimming in rare mats, I remember a guy saying he had close to 300O-Cells even after making all the primed gear and forma he needed. Plus I think it maks sense adding the Nerual Sensor it's like having to hack the lock that the Bolts have. Veteran players probably aren't going down due to the G3 unless they are using mastery trash equipment, and as such bolts aren't an issue for them. However, new players that have the misfortune to run an invasion with the Corpus early on in the game are almost certain to die if they get selected for an attack, get bolted, and then get screwed over. If there is an invasion on, say, Venus and a newbie supports the Corpus and gets tagged they are going to have a HELL of a time getting by Earth to get to the one item that can help them. Bolts don't hurt veterans any. They only hurt the new players. If you want a material sink for resources that you have been stockpiling for a long time, push DE for End Game material sinks, not ones which can push people away from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hooligonzo Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Tru dat, bro. Tru dat. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrocatharsis Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Veteran players probably aren't going down due to the G3 unless they are using mastery trash equipment, and as such bolts aren't an issue for them. However, new players that have the misfortune to run an invasion with the Corpus early on in the game are almost certain to die if they get selected for an attack, get bolted, and then get screwed over. If there is an invasion on, say, Venus and a newbie supports the Corpus and gets tagged they are going to have a HELL of a time getting by Earth to get to the one item that can help them. Bolts don't hurt veterans any. They only hurt the new players. If you want a material sink for resources that you have been stockpiling for a long time, push DE for End Game material sinks, not ones which can push people away from the game. That, right there. The Bolt shouldn't have resources that you only find past Earth. Most newer players are having difficulties with the interception missions as it stands, I have made it a point to run several interceptions a day just to help the new guys out. Imagine if they had to go through that with the bolt on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoliru Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 killed alad V arround 6 times in a row no sensors RNG hates me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrPhantom Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I think the the real issue is a mix of both droptable logic and how easily the resources can be acquired. While Morphics and Oxium are a little hard to get, they're not a big deal seeing as Morphics drop as early as Mercury (and then rain from Mars and Derp Anyo) while Oxium can be found by breaking random containers on Corpus levels. Neurodes haven't become hard to get yet since Vay Hek is a joke (which will be no longer true in a week or so). It can be actually somewhat tough to get Neural Sensors in Jupiter - I've found that any reworked area's "unique troops" (Detron Crewmen, Frontier Hellions, etc...) can deal significant damage and you can go down pretty fast as a result if you're not familiar with these types of enemies already or wielding MR 6 or greater gear. On top of that, Zanuka can actually be a threat to a newer player (he uses a variant of Dispel just like when he's Harvesting across the galaxy) if there isn't a more experienced player around. When you add the fact that the drops are RNG-based, it can get pretty frustrating. Unless a clever way to increase drop frequency of Neural Sensors occurs, I think the best bet is just to remove them from the bolt release crafting requirements. Edited April 5, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenoble Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yeah, got bolted here at a low mastery level, from some other players mark. I'm happy that later on in the game you're swimming in them, but right now I'm pretty irritated. I literally just dropped $20 on this game only to be greeted by a massive debuff that takes farming for me to get rid of. This is not a fun game mechanic for lower level players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hooligonzo Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 That guy, right there? That's what happens. These bolt release blueprints need to become a lot friendlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg73 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I just started the game two days ago and was immensely enjoying it. I even mailed some friends to try it and just left my first few bucks in the store. But suddenly I encounter those Grustrag guys and get a debuff I can not imagine to heal because I haven´t progressed far enough to get the ingredients in any reasonable way. I read up on those guys and I have even no idea what an invasion mission is. So I have been hit with a high level debuff because I teamed with a player who did them? Anyway, it is ridiculous to hit relative newbies with a game destroying mechanic they have no hope of removing. I am halfway on my way out of the game already, who the heck comes up with a game design like this? Edited April 20, 2014 by Algreg73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdenagincourt Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Pretty much everything about G3 is excessively grindy, from how you get them to target you, to getting them to show up, to maybe or maybe not getting anything out of it, to getting the right RNG drop, to using some of the most precious resources in the game that you probably ground at some point to make the bolt release. I like the idea of more assassins and the aesthetic/backstory of the G3 for sure, but the implementation can be annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm pretty sure Invasions don't happen on Venus or Earth any more. I'm sure that was in patch notes somewhere. The reasoning was to make it smoother for new players to reach the branching point that is Earth. While a Neural Sensor might not be the most convenient thing to be asking for, in a way I like it because it encourages you to go run missions on a Corpus world. From a lore stance, the Grustrag 3 put the bolt on you to make you attack Corpus instead of Grineer. It debuffs you against Grineer and makes you fight Corpus for resources to remove it. Sounds like it is working as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foefaller Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) As someone who started about three weeks ago, I have to say the OP has a point. Had the G3 spawn in a group I was in less than a week into playing (having never done any invasion whatsoever at the time, just rotten luck with getting grouped with someone who had a death mark that triggered when I was there) and ended up with that bolt on my only 'frame at the time, when I was only a couple missions into Mars and Jupiter. Since my best (read: only) place to farm Neurodes was Grineer-run Earth (this was just before U13, so no infested Dark Sectors; even then, the last week has pretty much shown that invasions will lock a DS down for the whole duration unless one side can offer $texas battle pay and not run out of credits), I was nowhere near Alad V's mission and I had maybe 3 Oxium to my name, I ended up spend the free plat new players get on the parts I needed to get the damn thing off me, instead of the weapon and warframe slots I was going to use them on. It was a terribly frustrating experience that might have driven a less persistent player off pretty damn easily, well before he or she would have gotten involved in the game. Edited April 20, 2014 by Foefaller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)atpbx Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Pretty much everything about G3 is excessively grindy, from how you get them to target you, to getting them to show up, to maybe or maybe not getting anything out of it, to getting the right RNG drop, to using some of the most precious resources in the game that you probably ground at some point to make the bolt release. I like the idea of more assassins and the aesthetic/backstory of the G3 for sure, but the implementation can be annoying. They just don't show up. They are about as terrifying as a basket of kittens simply because they never attack you. They are the laziest, most useless hit squad in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaokasalis Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 You shouldnt enter politics if your not perpared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)fingernageldreck Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I dont farm alad V and still sit on 200-300 sensors. If events like on st pattricks day are up plan on what planet you play. Or when you have active ressource booster on you shouldnt "waste" time in the void. I like the feature of that bolt. It is some punishment for messing up on grineer planets/invasions. Would be cool if the harvester would have something like that aswell. So if you are a new player you have to think about if a invasion is worth it to meet the G3 and may be beaten up by them. And if they beat you up, you will have to pay a price. I like that idea. Edited April 20, 2014 by (PS4)fingernageldreck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePoopHunter Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I dont farm alad V and still sit on 200-300 sensors. If events like on st pattricks day are up plan on what planet you play. Or when you have active ressource booster on you shouldnt "waste" time in the void. I like the feature of that bolt. It is some punishment for messing up on grineer planets/invasions. Would be cool if the harvester would have something like that aswell. So if you are a new player you have to think about if a invasion is worth it to meet the G3 and may be beaten up by them. And if they beat you up, you will have to pay a price. I like that idea. I'm pretty sure Invasions don't happen on Venus or Earth any more. I'm sure that was in patch notes somewhere. The reasoning was to make it smoother for new players to reach the branching point that is Earth. While a Neural Sensor might not be the most convenient thing to be asking for, in a way I like it because it encourages you to go run missions on a Corpus world. From a lore stance, the Grustrag 3 put the bolt on you to make you attack Corpus instead of Grineer. It debuffs you against Grineer and makes you fight Corpus for resources to remove it. Sounds like it is working as intended. well, you guys missed the people in this thread who got bolted because of another players mark. I guess it really wouldn't hurt to remove the neural sensors from the blueprint. It's not really an issue for me, if they spawn I (or any other player with a semi good weapon) can turn them into space dust in 10 seconds. It's not like anyone besides a newbie would get bolted in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg73 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 well, after two days of further playing, some luck and mostly leeching off other players (sucks, but simply could not avoid this) I managed to get that darn thing off. But still, my point stands: I had barely started playing, did not have the slightest idea what an invasion mission is or random faction bosses for that matter. If Warframe wasn´t such a tremendously fun game, I don´t think I would have found the nerve to grind my teeth on it. So I guess kudos to the overall game design, not so much for the whole getting punishment-tagged from other players affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNsaNitySOZ Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Everything that you just described as a problem is actually a solution. Get another gun, this isn't a game for cod players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ourobor Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Being bolted by the G3 is actually supposed to be annoying. That's the consequence of losing to them. They're a hit squad that you pissed off by doing a very specific act that they warned you not to do. If it was easy to deal with, there would be no consequence to it at all and you wouldn't care if you had the mark or not. The idea of the bolt is to make you consider not helping the Corpus. They changed the mechanics so you can't get bolted if you're under MR 4(I think? It might just be that you can't get a deathmark). IMO, they should act like the Stalker/Harvester and only bolt the frame they were coming after in the first place, but besides that, I think the bolt is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algreg73 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Everything that you just described as a problem is actually a solution. I guess this line is supposed to sound cool, but it signifies nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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