Trinity Needs To Be Nerfed Into The Ground

[Kalenath]

I remember the old trinity and the old nerf: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102830-trinity-98-feedback-thread/ Now the same history??

 

They don't need any NEW arguments when they can revive old and tired ones.

[Leuca]

 Iron skin scales out at low-mid levels, Blessing + link never does.

I'm only quoting this because this is the only thing that really needs to be addressed. The Blessing+Link combo does indeed scale out in terms of damage, due to infinite enemy scaling. The issue is not that Blessing+Link can be used to deal damage; the issue is that Blessing is both broken and required for extremely high enemy levels. Link also doesn't scale with Power Strength. Adding new numbers and mechanics to how these abilities function with different mods could be a much better potential balancing technique than simply reworking kits.

[Guest Shibboleet]

I'm only quoting this because this is the only thing that really needs to be addressed. The Blessing+Link combo does indeed scale out in terms of damage, due to infinite enemy scaling. The issue is not that Blessing+Link can be used to deal damage; the issue is that Blessing is both broken and required for extremely high enemy levels. Link also doesn't scale with Power Strength. Adding new numbers and mechanics to how these abilities function with different mods could be a much better potential balancing technique than simply reworking kits.

When I finally upload that video you can see that link does indeed get stronger the longer you stay in a Survival mission.

 

At about 2 hours, Buri and I stood facing away from the main room while Grineer spawned behind us and one shot themselves + their allies. This allowed us to kill them so fast that they hit level cap and stopped spawning at the 3 1/2 hour mark. Napalm fires were hitting for millions I might add.

We ran triple Trinity + Nekros.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

When I finally upload that video you can see that link does indeed get stronger the longer you stay in a Survival mission.

 

At about 2 hours, Buri and I stood facing away from the main room while Grineer spawned behind us and one shot themselves + their allies. This allowed us to kill them so fast that they hit level cap and stopped spawning at the 3 1/2 hour mark. Napalm fires were hitting for millions I might add.

We ran triple Trinity + Nekros.

 

and? what does this have to do with trinity being balanced for the real content in the real content link only transfers 2s-5s because enemys are so weak you are talking about absurd endless wich isnt the actual end game the devs made its just something added to teh game because we asked for it to be endless

In the real content trinity can be invincable and transfer her damage but enemy damage barly helps you kill stuff and other frames can do just as well if not better to survive and murder everything faster

[Guest Shibboleet]

and? what does this have to do with trinity being balanced for the real content in the real content link only transfers 2s-5s because enemys are so weak you are talking about absurd endless wich isnt the actual end game the devs made its just something added to teh game because we asked for it to be endless

In the real content trinity can be invincable and transfer her damage but enemy damage barly helps you kill stuff and other frames can do just as well if not better to survive and murder everything faster

I responded to someone who was mentioning that link scales out. What you quoted me on has no context to where you are trying to steer the conversation towards.

 

If you wish to use this argument, please quote the Rhino vs Trinity post I made earlier and use correct context.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Shibboleet

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I responded to someone who was mentioning that link scales out. What you quoted me on has no context to where you are trying to steer the conversation towards.

 

If you wish to use this argument, please quote the Rhino vs Trinity post I made earlier and use correct context.

 

I dont even know whats going on anymore I havent sleeped properly in 4 days waiting for wednesday :(

[Considering]

@Op,

 

You could have done one of three things instead of complaining about it here.

 

1. You could have left the game and joined another one with another set of random people.

 

2. Went in the other direction of the Trinity and got more kills for yourself, though what's wrong with leeching off of someone who is clearly better at playing the game than you.

 

3. Make some damn friends and play with them all the time.

 

Honestly the answer to your problem isn't that hard to figure out. To me it just sounds like you wanted something to complain about since you had a game that wasn't so much fun.

[ThePresident777]

A lot of people enjoy Trinity the way she is.  It's not fair to take away their fun.  And it's entirely uneccessary when it is easily possible to accommodate those who do want to see trinity changed and those who do not want to see trinity changed by making missions that solve their problem without affecting others. 

 

Nerfing content is always a losing proposition because it destroys player's fun, thereby dissatisfying customers.  The winning solution is to make different missions to satisfy different tastes instead of trying to compromise mutually exclusive opinions.

[WARLOCKE]

with your same plan you can get rhino prime and a boltor prime for just as much work and have a better warframe then trinity with the best weapon in the game

 

quoting your post is relevent so i quoted you again

Wtf, Rhino prime better than Trinity? Someone is smoking something, and its you.

[Onihikage]

My suggestion: make Link's damage reduction and reflection affected by power strength (DR would follow a logarithmic curve, getting close to but never quite reaching 100%), while making Blessing prevent Link from reflecting damage, which is actually how it used to be. Prevents the "exploit" without ruining Trinity's intended utility.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Wtf, Rhino prime better than Trinity? Someone is smoking something, and its you.

 

he is better in most situations and will get the job done faster

just because trinity can be invincable does not mean she is better then rhino who can be sudo invincable he gets knockdown protection and invincability from all damage while under rhino skin wich is just strong enough to be effective within the developers balancing range trinity takes it to overkill where the ammount of power she puts into her link and blessing are unessisary since everything dies so easly

[Dataz]

Here you have a video how ppl use trinity:

her blessing shouldn't give immortality right after using it so it'd be ok if it's removed.

[Amiros]

they going to nerf Trinity, then all getting 1 shotted from high lvl mobs, after a few Death ppl will come back here and cry we need buff we getting 1 shotted.

 

 

be glad ur &#! get saved from Trinity, when she is gone u cant even tie your own shoes.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Amiros

[nekrojiji]

I have a 3 star Trinity which can hold up: 18 seconds of Blessing and and 22 seconds of Link. I can link myself with enemies at 30+ meters. I have a 6 star Penta. I can do what everyone thinks it's overpowered, but I still prefer my Ash when I play.

 

I play a lot solo. With Trinity when I do long survivals, my screen is filled with particles and effects from Napalms' or Corpus' lasers and it becomes a chalenge to actualy see the enemies through all that. With Ash ....if they don't see me ...they don't fire. It's a lot more fun when my screen is not full of particles and I can actualy see something.

 

More, someone like Stalker .... can put you down with one Slash Dash if no other units are arownd, with Trinity.

 

 

I'm still ok with nerfes to Blessing's range, or with Link and Blessing be exclusive (when one is activated it deactivates the other one).

[Leuca]

When I finally upload that video you can see that link does indeed get stronger the longer you stay in a Survival mission.

 

At about 2 hours, Buri and I stood facing away from the main room while Grineer spawned behind us and one shot themselves + their allies. This allowed us to kill them so fast that they hit level cap and stopped spawning at the 3 1/2 hour mark. Napalm fires were hitting for millions I might add.

We ran triple Trinity + Nekros.

Of course Link will scale with enemy damage, but this is not what people are referring to when they talk about the Blessing+Link combo.

[GTG3000]

They don't need any NEW arguments when they can revive old and tired ones.

 

Considering Trin wasn't actually changed since then... Welp.

[WARLOCKE]

he is better in most situations and will get the job done faster

just because trinity can be invincable does not mean she is better then rhino who can be sudo invincable he gets knockdown protection and invincability from all damage while under rhino skin wich is just strong enough to be effective within the developers balancing range trinity takes it to overkill where the ammount of power she puts into her link and blessing are unessisary since everything dies so easly

 

Umm

 

No. Iron Skin becomes terrible at endgame. It does not scale well. Stomp stops killing anything worthwhile at lvl 30 missions. 

 

Rhino is a good frame. He isnt OP, and the kids that cry about him are playing low level missions and have little to no idea how the frame works in the end. Like most nerf calling.

 

Trinity however, is almost mandatory in any content that matters. 

 

Or are you talking about solo play? I dunno, super spammy blessing with natural talent is pretty damn good. Regardless both Rhino and Trin get blown the hell away in the solo game by Ash and Loki, Not even a contest. And thats my problem with these forums. People giving feedback that is not accurate because they play at low levels.

 

Also, im not trin needs a nerf. 

[-CM-Aeon]

Whenever a new frame is out with good abilities or it starts to stand out community starts screaming for nerfs. Just another day with the warframe community. BESIDES this isnt even a moba or a fps pvp game at all. Its a co-op game. You team with people for most of the part. PVP is out there for those who want to do that but doesnt grant any advantage to the player. So i dont see a reason to do that. Besides the most powerful tactic with Trinity wont last that long too. So please stop crying for nerfs. I would like to remind that she cant get rid of masses like nova. She is a healer and is a healer alone. Besides oberons puny blessing she is the only healer. Should a second healer frame emerge that will threaten Trin's throne then will you understand how precious she is. Nah community?

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Umm

No. Iron Skin becomes terrible at endgame. It does not scale well. Stomp stops killing anything worthwhile at lvl 30 missions.

Rhino is a good frame. He isnt OP, and the kids that cry about him are playing low level missions and have little to no idea how the frame works in the end. Like most nerf calling.

Trinity however, is almost mandatory in any content that matters.

Or are you talking about solo play? I dunno, super spammy blessing with natural talent is pretty damn good. Regardless both Rhino and Trin get blown the hell away in the solo game by Ash and Loki, Not even a contest. And thats my problem with these forums. People giving feedback that is not accurate because they play at low levels.

Also, im not trin needs a nerf.

You dont know what end game is it seems.

End game is content ends at level 35 enemys wave 20 endless defence and 20 minutes in survival wich ever comes first as stated by the developers in the live streams. Rhino is neerly imortal in the real end game everything past it is just there to make players who want a challange happy but everything is balanced around thos 3 things. Trinity is unessisarly overpowered yes so overpowered that her abilitys are unessisary your taking extra precaution for no reason (atleast in every area thats within the developer's real content).

Edited April 9, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[WARLOCKE]

You dont know what end game is it seems.

End game is content ends at level 35 enemys wave 20 endless defence and 20 minutes in survival wich ever comes first as stated by the developers in the live streams. Rhino is neerly imortal in the real end game everything past it is just there to make players who want a challange happy but everything is balanced around thos 3 things. Trinity is unessisarly overpowered yes so overpowered that her abilitys are unessisary your taking extra precaution for no reason (atleast in every area thats within the developer's real content).

 

Ok now your going of on tangents. Ill try to address what I can understand.

 

Endgame : Any content that is at the end of a game, The highest difficulty levels available For group play that currently is high wave endless defense and or survival. t3 and Pluto are a cake walk for any decent group of players. This wont stay this way. New content will be introduced that will further challenge groups of players (endgame content). 

 

Solo Endgame : Its what you make it. Obviously solo players cant achieve high waves for defense missions so its pretty much finding a 30+ survival and see how long you can go. Thats it. Sucks but hopefully solo players will get a more defined play experience at some point (doubtful at best.).

 

In the multiplayer end game scenario Rhino Prime is a decent choice bringing a very solid CC ult and a nice buff for his group. Iron Skin is meaningless a this point, I dont even slot it if I know i am doing endless D. Trinity however is a god pick for endgame. I am not sure how you cant understand this unless your forum avatar is to be trusted and you are indeed a Trin main and are attempting to obfuscate the subject. I dont need to write anything more about Trin, we all know how blessing/ling/natural talent and Fleeting works.

 

In solo endgame Rhino ends up getting pulverized and CONSTANTLY recasting Iron Skin. Trin , well, you can exploit link and blessing and if you wont, then you havent gotten this far. Your obvious God picks for this are Ash with his smoke bomb and invincibility frames in Bladestorm and the super god Loki, who just is the perfect picture of a solo frame (except the times when the player mess's up and comes out of invis in a group of 100+ bombards).

 

 

 

My point is. You are harming the game with tripe like "Rhino is OP". I know its the new hot buzz since you kids figured out Nova isnt getting nerfed.

 

 

Here, think of things this way. Rhino has been the same for some time now, half a year. Rhino prime provides a SMALL boost to speed ( devs comment). A small burst of speed is not enough to break a game or a frame. The devs understand this. They are not stupid. The whine squad are NOT better developers. Yet Rhino is not nerfed. How and Why is that. I wonder.

 

I am not even sure why I try anymore. The closed beta community is long dead and now the forums are filled with horrible feedback and egocentric bile and toxicity. Guess I figure if I can reach one whiner with my posts its a victory.

Edited April 9, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[Noobstein]

OP said: This weekend the first time I've played Warframe in months, and I've dived back in gusto in anticipation of Update 13. For the most part I've had a lot of fun, grinding up some weapons and frames I've constructed during my sporadic log-ons.

 

Really? Do you want Trinity nerfed "into the ground" just 'cause you're unhappy with the outcome of ONE mission? What if Trinity player had less kills than you? It would have been ok? Maybe in stead of asking devs to nerf "into the ground" one of the best frames in game, you could spend a few hours actually playing the game and learning how to land a few shots? Maybe upgrading some mods and combining elemental damage? Or, you could try to ask the team nicely to not shoot the enemy 'cause you get all emotional when you see the the results and ask that all their frames should be nerfed into the ground... 

[ThePresident777]

I would say that the point of this thread is not Link+Blessing, well, not fundamentally.  On the surface the point of this thread may be nerf Link+Blessing.  But, this thread follows a very familiar pattern.  It has a common denominator.  The common denominator of the thread is people calling for an all encompassing change, in particular a nerf although it could be a buff, vs. people resisting that all encompassing change.  This is the underlying pattern of 99.9...% of the nerf/buff threads on these forums and beyond. 

 

The sad fact, or perhaps merely my personal observation, is that the typical response to these sort of threads by professional video game developers is to attempt appeasement through some sort of compromise.  The Holy Grail is a lossless compromise.  But, compromise by it's nature cannot be lossless.  There is always a loss with compromise therefore there is always disappointment with compromise.  The inevitable result is disappointment for everybody to some degree and the disappointment accumulates with each compromise until the game needlessly collapses underneath the weight of compromise even though the underlying concept of the game still has a usable life span.

 

There is no common ground between mutually exclusive opinions.  Compromise between mutually exclusive opinions is a total loss for all.  Therefore there can be no compromise between mutually exclusive opinions.  Only separation is possible between mutually exclusive opinions.  All vs. not-All is a set off mutually exclusive choices.

 

One of the common replies to this sort of thread by people opposing it is "go play with your friends/clan/like minded people/another game".  It is a defensive reaction to a proposed loss.  This sort of reply does not attempt to deny the original poster of what he wants, unless what he wants is to just force some change or misery unto people for the sake of doing so.  This sort of reply attempts to contain the original post and establish a separation between mutually exclusive opinions.  As inartful as it might typically be expressed,it is fundamentally sound, whereas this thread's, and those of it's kind's, underlying motive is unworkable for the above stated reasons.

 

What is lacking is a mechanism to accommodate the mutually exclusive opinions within the same product or store, and an analysis to identify and understand these opinions in the deep dark sea of misery in which they swim.  The vast majority of successful businesses manage to do so.  Yet, the video game industry struggles to succeed here and reap the benefit, or so it appears to me.  Grocery stores and super markets, all retailers practically, use isles and bins to separate products.  Restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, eateries, etc. use menus.   Products that do not sell well are not restocked onto the shelves.  Warframe in particular could use missions to separate mutually exclusive opinions.  The mechanism is suitable and paid for.  The benefits are proven to be worth while.

Edited April 9, 2014 by ThePresident777

[GTG3000]

I would say that the point of this thread is not Link+Blessing, well, not fundamentally.  On the surface the point of this thread may be nerf Link+Blessing.  But, this thread follows a very familiar pattern.  It has a common denominator.  The common denominator of the thread is people calling for an all encompassing change, in particular a nerf although it could be a buff, vs. people resisting that all encompassing change.  This is the underlying pattern of 99.9...% of the nerf/buff threads on these forums and beyond. 

 

The sad fact, or perhaps merely my personal observation, is that the typical response to these sort of threads by professional video game developers is to attempt appeasement through some sort of compromise.  The Holy Grail is a lossless compromise.  But, compromise by it's nature cannot be lossless.  There is always a loss with compromise therefore there is always disappointment with compromise.  The inevitable result is disappointment for everybody to some degree and the disappointment accumulates with each compromise until the game needlessly collapses underneath the weight of compromise even though the underlying concept of the game still has a usable life span.

 

There is no common ground between mutually exclusive opinions.  Compromise between mutually exclusive opinions is a total loss for all.  Therefore there can be no compromise between mutually exclusive opinions.  Only separation is possible between mutually exclusive opinions.  All vs. not-All is a set off mutually exclusive choices.

 

One of the common replies to this sort of thread by people opposing it is "go play with your friends/clan/like minded people/another game".  It is a defensive reaction to a proposed loss.  This sort of reply does not attempt to deny the original poster of what he wants, unless what he wants is to just force some change or misery unto people for the sake of doing so.  This sort of reply attempts to contain the original post and establish a separation between mutually exclusive opinions.  As inartful as it might typically be expressed,it is fundamentally sound, whereas this thread's, and those of it's kind's, underlying motive is unworkable for the above stated reasons.

 

What is lacking is a mechanism to accommodate the mutually exclusive opinions within the same product or store, and an analysis to identify and understand these opinions in the deep dark sea of misery in which they swim.  The vast majority of successful businesses manage to do so.  Yet, the video game industry struggles to succeed here and reap the benefit, or so it appears to me.  Grocery stores and super markets, all retailers practically, use isles and bins to separate products.  Restaurants, cafes, coffee shops, eateries, etc. use menus.   Products that do not sell well are not restocked onto the shelves.  Warframe in particular could use missions to separate mutually exclusive opinions.  The mechanism is suitable and paid for.  The benefits are proven to be worth while.

 

I hereby grant you the title of Master of Obvious.

 

But then again, not everyone is a paranoid selfaware weirdo like me.

 

We'll see if DE actually listens to you or tries to make a Trin that fits everyone.

[Zerethon]

Read first page.

Trinity changes:

Link no longer re-directs self damage from explosive weapons, but now reflects 15% more damage back at enemies.

*Sips coffee, bows, leaves thread*

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Still thinks his idea of end game is what the devs are balancing around.

 

the devs have said before what end game is i have repeated their words over and over and you still think they are going to balance around your idea of end game when theirs is so much lower just because they are endless does not make them end game they are after game and people call it end game but the game has a very clear stoping point level 35 wave 20 defence 20 minute survivals and all of rhino's skills are perfectly fine in this end game hw is not as perfect as trinity is for after that but honestly thats not what the game is about to the devs you cant balance for endless content then we would have every frame being as unessisarly strong as trinity she will get her day and it will be a glorius master race trinity festival once all 4 of her skills are usable and nessisary in normal content but till that day she is WAY unessisary due to how easy this game is the begining of the game starts out WAY WAAAY to hard and all the way up till level 35s it just gets easier and easier trinity only makes a diffrence when your helping noobs or playing past end game and both of thos partys will love to have trinity

 

new to the game(1)---ok at the game(10)---find your favorite weapon(15)---forma it(20)---get a soma and bail on your fav weapon(25)---end game(35)---after game(endless)

 

most games have and end game and after game just look at pokemon in x and y end game trainers have level 65 but after game you go to the battle arenas and are brought down to 50s and can fight endless waves of trainers who get better and better strats where nothing is balanced

Edited April 10, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic