Fire Leaders > Ember

[Egg_Chen]

Seriously have you seen their Fireblast?

It expands in a fiery explosion of death that consumes most of the known universe, while Ember's feels like "Meh" with a side order of apathy.

Ember should get their Fireblast.

[SpilockT_T]

Agreed +1

[Stormandreas]

Embers fireblast used to be able to be that big, and was VERY helpful.... now its just pitiful and weak.

[Siege__]

Seconded! Needs to happen.

[Eoptap]

The problem is most of the people complaining about "game balance" I have a feeling these people are the ones that do not last more than ten minutes in survival. I also have a feeling it is along the same line of player that will cuss you out in message for not dropping everything you are doing to come do what you want even though you do not know them or even the ones you do not know that randomly pop up asking you to hand out plat. Kind of like the changes they did to frost. It is not only time based but has HP. I joined after the change, but from what I read it was more people claiming the ability was op. Well I doubt it was, and now it is not all that great. Ten seconds left on a 35 second timer and the snow globe drops. So instead of being able to put up the shield and assist in other players playing frost I have to stay near the objective. The proper change would have been to make a second version of Snow globe that was from nightmare or what ever, and make it mobile with frost as the center. the same thing could have been done hear. Some group of noobs with no high level game experience whined "game balance".  These players whining "game balance" are basing it of if it were a PVP game instead of PVE game. I see this as either a solo game or team play game some of the changes made take away from the role of the wireframe, and weaken the team.

[(PSN)devinhot]

Seriously have you seen their Fireblast?

It expands in a fiery explosion of death that consumes most of the known universe, while Ember's feels like "Meh" with a side order of apathy.

Ember should get their Fireblast.

OH HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!+1

[XenosInfinity]

The problem is most of the people complaining about "game balance"

 

I think you have the wrong thread, this is totally unrelated to balance. Nobody even USED the word balance.

 

 

I support this idea completely. The Grineer are copying Orokin or Warframe technology to get hold of this stuff, but they're making BETTER versions of it than we already have access to with the warframe itself. Plus it would be hilarious to finally get revenge on the Grineer for that attack.

[Eoptap]

no I am saying the original change that made her weaker I am for the improvements suggested hear. I just think we need more of the good ideas need to be highlighted and the crowd that keeps getting the abilities killed need to be gagged. I like the Idea hear. The "game balance" crowd on the other hand might cry about it and say it is to powerful and un balancing. I think it was a combination of me not saying enough and you not understanding my explanation as I did not explain enough as typical of my adhd self I am doing 6 things at once. This is good it should be added, and my main point was if it was weakened before to what it is now it should not have been. Sorry for needing to clarify more, right topic, poor clarification.  

[DuWryght]

It wouldn't be as good as World of Fire (though if WoF knocked down too.... man). Instead, I would like her to have that mobile incinerate shield they have.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

The problem is most of the people complaining about "game balance" I have a feeling these people are the ones that do not last more than ten minutes in survival. I also have a feeling it is along the same line of player that will cuss you out in message for not dropping everything you are doing to come do what you want even though you do not know them or even the ones you do not know that randomly pop up asking you to hand out plat. Kind of like the changes they did to frost. It is not only time based but has HP. I joined after the change, but from what I read it was more people claiming the ability was op. Well I doubt it was, and now it is not all that great. Ten seconds left on a 35 second timer and the snow globe drops. So instead of being able to put up the shield and assist in other players playing frost I have to stay near the objective. The proper change would have been to make a second version of Snow globe that was from nightmare or what ever, and make it mobile with frost as the center. the same thing could have been done hear. Some group of noobs with no high level game experience whined "game balance". These players whining "game balance" are basing it of if it were a PVP game instead of PVE game. I see this as either a solo game or team play game some of the changes made take away from the role of the wireframe, and weaken the team.

I'm one of those "balance" people and have been here since closed beta. SG trivialized defense missions by making you invincible. The game isn't intended to be supported past 20 minutes or so in T3S. (And I've gone more than two hours in survival before getting bored and leaving.) Balance still matters in PVE.

And while I would not support something that is as powerful as fire leaders (I don't even want them to have it) for ember, she could use some love and more complex mechanics than "do fire damage"

Edited April 7, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[ExplodingStars]

The problem is most of the people complaining about "game balance" I have a feeling these people are the ones that do not last more than ten minutes in survival. I also have a feeling it is along the same line of player that will cuss you out in message for not dropping everything you are doing to come do what you want even though you do not know them or even the ones you do not know that randomly pop up asking you to hand out plat. Kind of like the changes they did to frost. It is not only time based but has HP. I joined after the change, but from what I read it was more people claiming the ability was op. Well I doubt it was, and now it is not all that great. Ten seconds left on a 35 second timer and the snow globe drops. So instead of being able to put up the shield and assist in other players playing frost I have to stay near the objective. The proper change would have been to make a second version of Snow globe that was from nightmare or what ever, and make it mobile with frost as the center. the same thing could have been done hear. Some group of noobs with no high level game experience whined "game balance".  These players whining "game balance" are basing it of if it were a PVP game instead of PVE game. I see this as either a solo game or team play game some of the changes made take away from the role of the wireframe, and weaken the team.

People complaining about Balance in an Warframe was never a problem nor will it ever be one in the foreseeable future. 

So long as copycat abilities and poorly designed features exist within Warframe, Balance XzY threads will never end. 

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Ember is my fav frame but i do admit shes far from balanced. Her accelerant and World on Fire are cool yeah but he fireblast doesnt work as advertised and her fireball is just meh

[RebornsAlmark]

Suggested this awhile back, but +1. Although it needs some utility of sorts (knockdown effect similar to Fire Leaders' and Ruk's Fireblast would be great).

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

WHen the boss is better using the powers than the frame hes suposed to be guarding then you have a problema. I wish we have more fire powers like Ruk does

[VergilDT]

It wouldn't be as good as World of Fire (though if WoF knocked down too.... man). Instead, I would like her to have that mobile incinerate shield they have.

agreed, with the current WoF hitting the enemy with a burst column of fire, nothing anyone can say will make me believe any enemy, barring bosses(ex:Ruk) would be knocked down by a point blank engulfing fire column to the face.

[RealPandemonium]

Fire Leaders don't use Fire Blast.  They use their own unique skill, which they share with Ruk.  Fire Blast needs work or to be replaced but it doesn't need this.

[Marthrym]

Yeah, leaders tend to have better versions/powers than the frames... Between the "HugeFireRingOfSuperKnockdown" and the "UberSuperMagneticAuraOfDeath", some frames feel a bit lackluster.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

The problem is most of the people complaining about "game balance" I have a feeling these people are the ones that do not last more than ten minutes in survival. I also have a feeling it is along the same line of player that will cuss you out in message for not dropping everything you are doing to come do what you want even though you do not know them or even the ones you do not know that randomly pop up asking you to hand out plat.

 

Kind of like the changes they did to frost. It is not only time based but has HP. I joined after the change, but from what I read it was more people claiming the ability was op. Well I doubt it was, and now it is not all that great. Ten seconds left on a 35 second timer and the snow globe drops. So instead of being able to put up the shield and assist in other players playing frost I have to stay near the objective.

 

The proper change would have been to make a second version of Snow globe that was from nightmare or what ever, and make it mobile with frost as the center. the same thing could have been done hear. Some group of noobs with no high level game experience whined "game balance".  These players whining "game balance" are basing it of if it were a PVP game instead of PVE game. I see this as either a solo game or team play game some of the changes made take away from the role of the wireframe, and weaken the team.

 

 

I have a feeling that you should probably keep your mouth shut, before you make a big fool of yourself by jumping to conclusions. 

 

Frost consisted of spam Snow Globe and go make a coffee, come back and activate SG again. His other powers were, and still are largely rubbish. SG being duration invulnerability ensured that Frost would be a 1 trick pony. Much the same as Rhino's Iron Skin being duration based way back in the day, but less game breaking God mode. You still get, 4 seconds Inv on Snow Globe, and it lasts 30 seconds with no duration mod with over 6000 hp. You just can't do a duration build and expect to have invulnerability on the objective for minutes at a time, which was the problem before the nerf to begin with.

 

Frost's other abilities have major issues, namely a lack of CC after the Avalanche nerf, which no one called for, absolutely no one, and it's now largely considered to be rubbish. Freeze is borked and pointless and Ice wave has a very narrow AoE and isn't that good. What he does need is the cold CC coming back across the board to all powers, widening the AoE on Ice wave to a cone shape, giving a cold proc AoE to Freeze and Avalanche getting a Cold proc and Freeze of 5 seconds, where anything Frozen takes 100% additional damage, shattering.

 

(Think Terminator 2, liquid nitrogen scene, I hate the snowballs falling out of nowhere.)

 

Now, only a fool uses, it's a PVE game argument to defend what are clearly broken abilities, are you a fool? I hope not and I'd reconsider what you just said, as it's rather daft.

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Ember should get their Fireblast.

 

Lol, no. It's way too big as it is, and has insane knockdown recovery time, along with some fairly heft damage. 

 

Should Fireblast be improved? Yes, definitely. Being affected by range mods, maybe, having an high proc chance on the blast (if low damage is kept) and an AoE stun/ knockdown is fine.

 

Should Ember get the Grineer Fire Leader blast, nope. They shouldn't even have it in it's current form!

[Monolake]

Accelerant stuns, WoF damages everyone in the large area, ignoring obstacles and line of sight allowing even blind to successfully play Ember. So what exactly do you want, both in a single cheaper skill? Another "press 4(or 3) to win"?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Monolake

[Hyunsai]

Accelerant, World on Fire, a good weapon with some fire damage is more than enough to obliterate every 60+ leaders of this game and all the minions around in less time I took to write this.

 

So I'll take Ember everyday.
 

Edited April 8, 2014 by Hyunsai

[(PSN)devinhot]

I have a feeling that you should probably keep your mouth shut, before you make a big fool of yourself by jumping to conclusions. 

 

Frost consisted of spam Snow Globe and go make a coffee, come back and activate SG again. His other powers were, and still are largely rubbish. SG being duration invulnerability ensured that Frost would be a 1 trick pony. Much the same as Rhino's Iron Skin being duration based way back in the day, but less game breaking God mode. You still get, 4 seconds Inv on Snow Globe, and it lasts 30 seconds with no duration mod with over 6000 hp. You just can't do a duration build and expect to have invulnerability on the objective for minutes at a time, which was the problem before the nerf to begin with.

 

Frost's other abilities have major issues, namely a lack of CC after the Avalanche nerf, which no one called for, absolutely no one, and it's now largely considered to be rubbish. Freeze is borked and pointless and Ice wave has a very narrow AoE and isn't that good. What he does need is the cold CC coming back across the board to all powers, widening the AoE on Ice wave to a cone shape, giving a cold proc AoE to Freeze and Avalanche getting a Cold proc and Freeze of 5 seconds, where anything Frozen takes 100% additional damage, shattering.

 

(Think Terminator 2, liquid nitrogen scene, I hate the snowballs falling out of nowhere.)

 

Now, only a fool uses, it's a PVE game argument to defend what are clearly broken abilities, are you a fool? I hope not and I'd reconsider what you just said, as it's rather daft.

I dont really understand everyone complaining about broken abilities after all it is a PvE game-_- but before we all go crying that everything is op to make all of the good frames crap lets 1st buff the S#&$ty ones._.

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)devinhot

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

I dont really understand everyone complaining about broken abilities after all it is a PvE game-_-  but before we all go crying that everything is op to make all of the good frames crap lets 1st buff the S#&$ty ones._.

 

Don't make me explain why again. 

 

In addition with the solar rail and clan war system being put in, the game is becoming more responsive to PvE in terms of the effect it will have on your clan, so that torpedoes an already terrible argument. You know what will happen when one clan invades another?

 

Everyone will go for the most powerful/ OP frames and weapons. (I'm thinking Nova, Rhino, Trinity, with the odd Loki, Nyx, Embers and  Vauban mixed in. Every one of them wielding Galantines, Somas and Pentas or Primed weapons) because it is the easiest and fastest way to deal with the missions, to kick another clan out of the badlands. So you will have endless Rhino, Trin and Nova spam. Because it's easier, and staying in the badlands gives resource benefits.

Edited April 8, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Accelerant stuns, WoF damages everyone in the large area, ignoring obstacles and line of sight allowing even blind to successfully play Ember. So what exactly do you want, both in a single cheaper skill? Another "press 4(or 3) to win"?

but that's wrong, WoF damages ONE enemy in the area, and if it just so happens to lock on an enemy with a crapton of HP, or if you're in late T3 survival/grineer which resist the fire damage and have massive HP to boot, you're screwed. ember can't take lategame. it's one of the best frames for just clearing the star chart, just press 4 and go, but anything stronger than that? it's over.

 

I have a feeling that you should probably keep your mouth shut, before you make a big fool of yourself by jumping to conclusions. 

 

Frost consisted of spam Snow Globe and go make a coffee, come back and activate SG again. His other powers were, and still are largely rubbish. SG being duration invulnerability ensured that Frost would be a 1 trick pony. Much the same as Rhino's Iron Skin being duration based way back in the day, but less game breaking God mode. You still get, 4 seconds Inv on Snow Globe, and it lasts 30 seconds with no duration mod with over 6000 hp. You just can't do a duration build and expect to have invulnerability on the objective for minutes at a time, which was the problem before the nerf to begin with.

 

Frost's other abilities have major issues, namely a lack of CC after the Avalanche nerf, which no one called for, absolutely no one, and it's now largely considered to be rubbish. Freeze is borked and pointless and Ice wave has a very narrow AoE and isn't that good. What he does need is the cold CC coming back across the board to all powers, widening the AoE on Ice wave to a cone shape, giving a cold proc AoE to Freeze and Avalanche getting a Cold proc and Freeze of 5 seconds, where anything Frozen takes 100% additional damage, shattering.

 

(Think Terminator 2, liquid nitrogen scene, I hate the snowballs falling out of nowhere.)

 

Now, only a fool uses, it's a PVE game argument to defend what are clearly broken abilities, are you a fool? I hope not and I'd reconsider what you just said, as it's rather daft.

but guess what, frost STILL is a one trick pony, they nerfed his only good skill to try and get you to use his other skills (which are crap) now you have one meh skill and 3 crap skills, so it's still a 1-trick pony, a worse 1-trick pony.

 

and before the nerf i casted my snowglobe knowing it would be there for 30 seconds, so i left, went around, killed other stuff etcetera. now, using heavy gunner [74] as an example, i have to stay next to the defense target ALWAYS because my globe won't last more than 10 seconds.

 

Accelerant, World on Fire, a good weapon with some fire damage is more than enough to obliterate every 60+ leaders of this game and all the minions around in less time I took to write this.

 

So I'll take Ember everyday.

 

no it's not, unless you're running a very maxed power strength on ember, her WoF is not going to kill that Heavy gunner [74] any time soon, and if you do run a very maxed power strength build, the darn thing doesn't become self-suficient and starts consumming waay too much energy.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

but guess what, frost STILL is a one trick pony, they nerfed his only good skill to try and get you to use his other skills (which are crap) now you have one meh skill and 3 crap skills, so it's still a 1-trick pony, a worse 1-trick pony.

 

and before the nerf i casted my snowglobe knowing it would be there for 30 seconds, so i left, went around, killed other stuff etcetera. now, using heavy gunner [74] as an example, i have to stay next to the defense target ALWAYS because my globe won't last more than 10 seconds.

 

 

First you shouldn't be using a lvl 74 enemy as a basis when the game mechanics break down after 20 minutes in survival. DE balanced the game up to lvl 45, 50 on the new enemy leaders. Not lvl 74. Using Lvl 74 as a figure to declare a power balanced is daft, and only shows that the power was broken in the first place. 

 

And secondly, I said the problem with Frost's powers is that they largely are rubbish. If they nerfed SG to encourage other powers that's ridiculous. But they didn't. They nerfed SG because it was stupid and affected the game to a degree where the go to tactic was spam SG. The problem was they didn't actually improve Frost's other powers for utility or CC.