How Timeless Do You Think The "endgame Systems" Will Be?

[VegetableBasket]

When I think about games that have been running for almost 10 years or longer (Ultima Online, EverQuest, WoW, Runescape, Eve Online, Diablo II, Counter Strike Source), I ask, what do they do to keep people interested? Will Warframe's systems accomplish the same things? Can you honestly say you will be interested in the focus system 9 years down the road? Will badlands control or missions really get your blood pumping 5 years from now? Will you be going ham on Proxy War for years to come? I really don't think so. None of these systems provide simultaneously interesting, dynamic, risky experiences.

 

I could go into detail about what makes all these long time games good, but I'll just say this: sometimes it's balanced competition (notice I didn't say PvP), tons of new content, high risk high reward situations, dynamic player interaction, player generated content, some do one thing very well, others do some things decently, but they all have these kinds of characteristics.

 

There is just too little personal risk or reward in Badlands, it's all on the shoulders of a collective group. Resources and credits go into or out of a vault players can't touch or take from (as of right now). Even if your team wins, you don't get anything. What you invest isn't proportional to what you get out. I think this is the closest to a system which could be built to last, but using all the current game mechanics, it's pretty pointless, especially for players who don't need resources or credits. I'd call those players the ones who are at endgame.

No actual gameplay content from Focus. It's a skill tree. Unless it looks like this I doubt it will change how or why people play the game, once they've gone through the content. Will this add countless character builds, introduce serious theorycrafting to the game, or come with extremely challenging content which requires its use? Not from what we've seen.

Nothing, from the looks of it, in Proxy War that will keep the game around for years, but it's what we know the least about. It's a faction reputation system. If it works like the reputation systems I've seen in other games with one, it will more or less be a grind to the top rank of whatever factions you prefer. At some point you climb the end of the ladder, though. I hope it's not like that.

I know Warframe is in beta and by now, don't expect DE to get it right the first time. I know making a game that lasts 10 years isn't easy and the games which survive that gauntlet of a decade are the ones that define genres. I know a lot of you are thinking "You haven't even played it yet?" I know. It's not out yet. I know. I get it. But we have a lot of information about the systems right now. Enough to discuss this. I appreciate that DE is working on this stuff which will most likely be pretty fun. But are these endgame systems, or just systems?

I just want to ask you guys, how timeless do you think the "endgame systems" will be?

Edited April 7, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[PsychedelicSnake]

I think when these systems each initially come out, they won't actually be endgame. Instead, things will be added, removed, and improved as time goes on. As with most things in Warframe, it'll probably be a long term addition, rather than something DE just adds then forgets about entirely. Basically, I think that we shouldn't expect endgame right off the bat, but work towards it.

[Bobsplosion]

I just hope the Endgame Chasis and Helmet aren't too hard to grind for.

[Angius]

"Oh, look Badlands! Great, we have endgame!"
*week passes*
"Meh, Badlands are too repetitive, the difficulty is too high, rewards are not worth it... Well, we need to wait for U14!"

 

"Oh, look Proxy Wars! Great, we have endgame!"

*week passes*
"Meh, Proxy Wars are too repetitive, the difficulty is too high, rewards are not worth it... Well, we need to wait for U15!"

 

"Oh, look Focus system! Great, we have endgame!"

*week passes*
"Meh, the cost in XP is too high, further bonuses are not worth it after the X lens is unlocked... Well, we need to wait for U16!"

[Luminati07]

Really depends on how much DE intends to add to them over time. From being here for over a year now, I'm not all that confident on that part...

 

Anyway, to me, these seem like nice content additions. That's it.

Not endgame. Just content.

 

Focus does have the potential to be the thing that gives players freedom to change their playstyle (something I detailed in my own thread), but I don't see it being as good as I might hope. 

My Focus thread, which I think you may have posted in (can't remember), was fairly drastically different to DE's original vision.

 

Badlands doesn't seem like endgame, just content.

Proxy War doesn't seem like endgame, just content.

 

I think that if we start viewing these additions as pure content additions, and not as real endgame, it'll be much better for everyone.

However, DE are the ones that officially called these 3 concepts "endgame", so they've already done 1 of 2 things.

1) Shot themselves in the foot.

2) Put a tonne of pressure on themselves for these things to be actual endgame.

 

All in all, I look at these 3 ideas as content. Nothing more.

[DJ_Redwire]

This is something I've been thinking about ever since all the new systems were proposed. While I'm excited that they're in production and excited we will get them soon, whenever I hear the devs talking about them, nothing jumps out at me that makes me go "hey wow, that could be some serious endgame stuff right there." That's just the honest truth of it.

[CrazyCatLad]

RNG might kill Badlands and Proxy if there are rewards strictly tied to either of them.

[SirSlayer]

The legitimated endless grind pit called badlands is there soon, so don'T worry.

[Niryco]

When I think about games that have been running for almost 10 years or longer (Ultima Online, EverQuest, WoW, Runescape, Eve Online, Diablo II, Counter Strike Source), I ask, what do they do to keep people interested? Will Warframe's systems accomplish the same things? Can you honestly say you will be interested in the focus system 9 years down the road? Will badlands control or missions really get your blood pumping 5 years from now? Will you be going ham on Proxy War for years to come? I really don't think so. None of these systems provide simultaneously interesting, dynamic, risky experiences.

 

I could go into detail about what makes all these long time games good, but I'll just say this: sometimes it's balanced competition (notice I didn't say PvP), tons of new content, high risk high reward situations, dynamic player interaction, player generated content, some do one thing very well, others do some things decently, but they all have these kinds of characteristics.

 

There is just too little personal risk or reward in Badlands, it's all on the shoulders of a collective group. Resources and credits go into or out of a vault players can't touch or take from (as of right now). Even if your team wins, you don't get anything. What you invest isn't proportional to what you get out. I think this is the closest to a system which could be built to last, but using all the current game mechanics, it's pretty pointless, especially for players who don't need resources or credits. I'd call those players the ones who are at endgame.

No actual gameplay content from Focus. It's a skill tree. Unless it looks like this I doubt it will change how or why people play the game, once they've gone through the content. Will this add countless character builds, introduce serious theorycrafting to the game, or come with extremely challenging content which requires its use? Not from what we've seen.

Nothing, from the looks of it, in Proxy War that will keep the game around for years, but it's what we know the least about.

I know Warframe is in beta and by now, don't expect DE to get it right the first time. I know making a game that lasts 10 years isn't easy and the games which survive that gauntlet of a decade are the ones that define genres. I know a lot of you are thinking "You haven't even played it yet?" I know. It's not out yet. I know. I get it. But we have a lot of information about the systems right now. Enough to discuss this. I appreciate that DE is working on this stuff which will most likely be pretty fun. But are these endgame systems, or just systems?

I just want to ask you guys, how timeless do you think the "endgame systems" will be?

 

I once suggested an idea that for each timeframe of the game is set in a fixed technological state, and with every few patch, they would sort of introduce the game in a separate timeframe with a different technological state. Players would get to play between different time frames and experience different content and in a sense they would get to bring their weapons only forwards from one time frame to another but not backwards.

 

The point was to create a seemingly growing warframe universe, but the idea was rejected by some posters since it would be too long, so much balancing issue, it would be too complicated, i just brought the post down.

 

if you want to read the original suggestion, i would PM you what i saved before i took the topic down.

 

scratch that i would probably not even be able to show you what it was because i don't even know where i placed it.

 

To be honest if you wanted something timeless, i don't even think the community is even ready to accept it yet because of how much things feels like its always progressing. I guess what is end game is that the game keeps updating and progressing without end with new content every time and that we help each and every new tenno to the latest frontier.

 

Unless the community is willing to accept a different sort of end-game, there no use suggesting a different end-game content when the community is looking for something simple and perpetual which is a very limited amount of choices.

 

This restriction would only leave us with the option of group territorial control endgame(badlands), near impossible to get content end-game(not yet unless we talk about RNG), raids end-game(attempted with J-2000 boss) or the basic almost forever to achieve max level end-game(mastery rank). These are all the forms of end-games all games adopt that is simple and perpetual and that is drilled into the every gaming community and which have all been successful in retaining a large number of their players.

 

thus to answer your question it will be timeless as long as the game is continuously being updated since it is simple to add more things to the end-game to make it seem timeless and also if the community is willing to accept it due to its simplicity.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Jacate

[Beasy63]

I once suggested an idea that for each timeframe of the game is set in a fixed technological state, and with every few patch, they would sort of introduce the game in a separate timeframe with a different technological state. Players would get to play between different time frames and experience different content and in a sense they would get to bring their weapons only forwards from one time frame to another but not backwards.

 

The point was to create a seemingly growing warframe universe, but the idea was rejected by some posters since it would be too long, so much balancing issue, it would be too complicated, i just brought the post down.

 

if you want to read the original suggestion, i would PM you what i saved before i took the topic down.

 

scratch that i would probably not even be able to show you what it was because i don't even know where i placed it.

 

To be honest if you wanted something timeless, i don't even think the community is even ready to accept it yet because of how much things feels like its always progressing. I guess what is end game is that the game keeps updating and progressing without end with new content every time and that we help each and every new tenno to the latest frontier.

 

Unless the community is willing to accept a different sort of end-game, there no use suggesting a different end-game content when the community is looking for something simple and perpetual which is a very limited amount of choices.

 

This restriction would only leave us with the option of group territorial control endgame(badlands), near impossible to get content end-game(not yet unless we talk about RNG), raids end-game(attempted with J-2000 boss) or the basic almost forever to achieve max level end-game(mastery rank). These are all the forms of end-games all games adopt that is simple and perpetual and that is drilled into the every gaming community and which have all been successful in retaining a large number of their players.

 

thus to answer your question it will be timeless as long as the game is continuously being updated since it is simple to add more things to the end-game to make it seem timeless and also if the community is willing to accept it due to its simplicity.

 

Im actually interested in your idea so could you pm me if you do happen to find it. And i agree about the community not accepting the endgame content youre talking about now but for now i could understand where they come from because the most basic functions and content needed to get the game where it needs to be isnt here right now. Melee 2.0 and other content is needed before long term endgame content can be added in my opinion. Basically what im saying is the game is a skeleton right now..it needs skin and organs to be complete right now. It needs short term end game content before long term endgame content like yours is implemented

[Cepmosod]

After playing Diablo 3 since loot 2.0, I really feel that warframe is lacking in risk/reward aspect.

Also, the build times don't help. I understand it's F2P, but there's something about putting on that insanely rare legendary helmet on right after you find it; yeah, you had to grind for hours to get that super rare drop, but now you have it!

Compare that to having to grind resources to build parts for a prime BP (which you have to find those too) that will build a prime item- then you have to wait.

For me, there's a thin line between delayed gratification and losing interest.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Cepmosod

[Niryco]

Im actually interested in your idea so could you pm me if you do happen to find it. And i agree about the community not accepting the endgame content youre talking about now but for now i could understand where they come from because the most basic functions and content needed to get the game where it needs to be isnt here right now. Melee 2.0 and other content is needed before long term endgame content can be added in my opinion. Basically what im saying is the game is a skeleton right now..it needs skin and organs to be complete right now. It needs short term end game content before long term endgame content like yours is implemented

 

Check your pm inbox, i passed you what the system suggestion originally was.

 

After playing Diablo 3 since loot 2.0, I really feel that warframe is lacking in risk/reward aspect.

Also, the build times don't help. I understand it's F2P, but there's something about putting on that insanely rare legendary helmet on right after you find it; yeah, you had to grind for hours to get that super rare drop, but now you have it!

Compare that to having to grind resources to build parts for a prime BP (which you have to find those too) that will build a prime item- then you have to wait.

For me, there's a thin line between delayed gratification and losing interest.

I want to explain why this is the case.

 

Simply put, DE places alot of artificial layers of grinding, such as RNG, such as bosses which drop blueprints that craft parts of parts, and the worse of the bunch, by trivializing effort through the purchasing of items with platinum.

 

Furthermore how they attempt to pull of legendary rare items through events where no one can put in the effort there after to get it. In a sense if you want to get a rare item, you have to be at the right place and right time. If not just waste your time trying to get good items which people can simply pay for.

 

If not try your luck getting average items by sitting through missions that is controlled by a spin wheel. Also in the end only a fair bit of items feel like they are different from the rest beyond the stat numbers. Alot of weapons just feel like they are reiterations of one another despite firing mechanics because, they kinda feel that way, nothing truly feels different in the case of new weapons.

 

Also we can't really say primes are legendaries, they aren't even worth it most of the times that it is kind of ironic.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Jacate

[neKroMancer]

Imo, what makes ARPG (which Warframe borrows a lot of elements from) lives longer isn't endgame. It's about loot and how player can create varieties of builds out of existing characters.

Like Cepmosod, I feel that Diablo3 offers richer experience in term of loot after loot2.0 was implemented. The game rewards you with properly leveled gear all the time. If the game fails to do so through RNG, Artisans are failsafe mechanic. It's a well-designed system that allows player to get proper gears anywhere, anytime.

Warframe has been unable to do so due to multiple reasons.

1. Static loot. It's something that I have been trying to point out for a very long time. The current mod system is like Diablo socketable items but without the usual magical prefix/suffix for weapon. This means a big problem for players since once you get one of it, that's all you need. You won't feel rewarding for getting another one of the same mod. It's value is drastically lowered after you get the first one.

2. Transmute system isn't working as a failsafe mechanic for RNG. We don't have a fixed recipe for getting certain types of mod. Right now it's totally random like Diablo2 gambling vendor. A total waste of time and credit, imo.

3. Restriction in inventory slot. Let's say Warfame's weapon borrows from ARPG classic prefix/suffix system, players are going to need lots of inventory slots to hold all of these weapons.

4. Mod system has not been fully explored to create varieties of build. TBH, even corrupted mods are just stat increase/decrease. There is no mod that change how powers work similar to D3 skill rune. Weapon mod is the same in this regard.

Indirect Or asymetrical PvP is needed with unique mechanic in it. When I say PvP I didn't mean in a classic TDM, I mean Badland or Proxy war. However, slapping invasion or defense with a new name isn't enough to draw players' attention for long. It needs something more than that. Personally, I think Badland will be another farming session (except leaderboard exist for Badland and it offers something for everyone). Proxy war has a good chance to be a candidate for player-generated content that has longevity surpassing classic Raid mechanic used in MMO. However, slapping existing game modes with a new name won't be enough. It needs to be more than that, a game mode that gives players a sense of both being a contender/defender of the solar rail.

[VegetableBasket]

Imo, what makes ARPG (which Warframe borrows a lot of elements from) lives longer isn't endgame. It's about loot and how player can create varieties of builds out of existing characters.

Like Cepmosod, I feel that Diablo3 offers richer experience in term of loot after loot2.0 was implemented. The game rewards you with properly leveled gear all the time. If the game fails to do so through RNG, Artisans are failsafe mechanic. It's a well-designed system that allows player to get proper gears anywhere, anytime.

Warframe has been unable to do so due to multiple reasons.

1. Static loot. It's something that I have been trying to point out for a very long time. The current mod system is like Diablo socketable items but without the usual magical prefix/suffix for weapon. This means a big problem for players since once you get one of it, that's all you need. You won't feel rewarding for getting another one of the same mod. It's value is drastically lowered after you get the first one.

2. Transmute system isn't working as a failsafe mechanic for RNG. We don't have a fixed recipe for getting certain types of mod. Right now it's totally random like Diablo2 gambling vendor. A total waste of time and credit, imo.

3. Restriction in inventory slot. Let's say Warfame's weapon borrows from ARPG classic prefix/suffix system, players are going to need lots of inventory slots to hold all of these weapons.

4. Mod system has not been fully explored to create varieties of build. TBH, even corrupted mods are just stat increase/decrease. There is no mod that change how powers work similar to D3 skill rune. Weapon mod is the same in this regard.

Indirect Or asymetrical PvP is needed with unique mechanic in it. When I say PvP I didn't mean in a classic TDM, I mean Badland or Proxy war. However, slapping invasion or defense with a new name isn't enough to draw players' attention for long. It needs something more than that. Personally, I think Badland will be another farming session (except leaderboard exist for Badland and it offers something for everyone). Proxy war has a good chance to be a candidate for player-generated content that has longevity surpassing classic Raid mechanic used in MMO. However, slapping existing game modes with a new name won't be enough. It needs to be more than that, a game mode that gives players a sense of both being a contender/defender of the solar rail.

I really agree about loot, I would love mods 1.0 mods to drop in harder missions, with random stats and no fusion. Trying to get good rolls on the mods you want is a sort of endgame unto itself, but hard missions need to be there first. Edited April 7, 2014 by VegetableBasket

[neKroMancer]

I really agree about loot, I would love mods 1.0 mods to drop in harder missions, with random stats and no fusion. Trying to get good rolls on the mods you want is a sort of endgame unto itself, but hard missions need to be there first.

I would love it if DE create mods that change behavior of power/weapon more than bringing mod 1.0 back. But I agree that bringing them back isn't a bad idea since DE can restrict mod stat to keep the game balance. However, they will be overlapped with nightmare mods. In this case, I think creating legendary version of nightmare mod should solve the problem. Place these mods in T3 of high level Badland seems like a good idea to me. A good goal to strive for.

What I really want is mod that change how power function and more dynamic weapon stat generation. I have been playing both Borderlands2 and Diablo3 and I have to say that having both varied socketable item and varied quality of base weapon isn't a bad idea. Right now, many weapons are obsolete in higher level due to low stat. Furthermore, it serves the game better when there is higher scaling (OP level in Borderlands and Torment in Diablo3).

Let's say you enjoy using Braton due to it's equally spread damage and ease of use but you are forced to use something else due to Braton's base stat is no longer viable in higher level. Why not introduce higher quality of Braton as a BP in higher level with additional trait? It will offers player a chance to use their favorite weapons again while allowing DE to recycle assets with no additional cost. The only problem is platinum cost for slot to hold said item but free players can get that through trading platinum anyway.

Mods that chane how power function is what I really want from mod2.0 but so far ther is no such development. Like allowing Mag pull to draw enemies to a certain point temporarily in stead of drawing toward her or allowing it to deal less magnetic while adding debuff to armor.

A bit off-topic, I think. Enough daydreaming.

[PookieNumnums]

End game..... Hate the term. Kind of puts a limit on things. Like there is going to be a reasonably acceptable point when the devs can stop making warframe

[WhisperByte]

Endgame in itself is a flawed concept imho. In progression game it is entirely based either on grind or/and pvp. DEvs just need to keep dangling a carrot far enough away to simulate worthwhile "content" and hope that player base doesn't get bored of the grind and leave or they don't consume the content too fast and demand more. Pvp is another option but this game is just not created for it.

Think about it:

Badlands are gonna be just another grind with high risk/moderate-at-best reward. The difference is that now large groups of players will be capable of various degrees of $&*^ery (high taxes, attacking solar rays for S#&$s and giggles)

Proxy wars are gonna be just another grind for reputation

Focus will probably allow some customization but knowing how DE are not really capable of balancing I think majority of the player base will use some cookie cutter build

Edited April 7, 2014 by WhisperByte

[ToeSama]

I don't think any endgame is timeless. A game itself is timeless, based on the impressions and enjoyment one can gather from the game in all of its facets. Warframe is struggling heavily in the regard, because it is not improving upon the game that it is instead of adding in more things to do while playing the game. Melee 2.0 will be a big test of the game's potential in the future to this, but Badlands, Proxy Wars and Focus seem more like general content patches than any large improvements to the game as a game and how other areas of the game are played.

 

I've been saying for a while now that the Devs should really crack down with general game system updates and revamping of broken or outdated systems instead of adding more content willy nilly. It may be easier, but it doesn't make Warframe shine in the long run.

 

Imo, what makes ARPG (which Warframe borrows a lot of elements from) lives longer isn't endgame. It's about loot and how player can create varieties of builds out of existing characters.

Like Cepmosod, I feel that Diablo3 offers richer experience in term of loot after loot2.0 was implemented. The game rewards you with properly leveled gear all the time. If the game fails to do so through RNG, Artisans are failsafe mechanic. It's a well-designed system that allows player to get proper gears anywhere, anytime.

Warframe has been unable to do so due to multiple reasons.
1. Static loot. It's something that I have been trying to point out for a very long time. The current mod system is like Diablo socketable items but without the usual magical prefix/suffix for weapon. This means a big problem for players since once you get one of it, that's all you need. You won't feel rewarding for getting another one of the same mod. It's value is drastically lowered after you get the first one.
2. Transmute system isn't working as a failsafe mechanic for RNG. We don't have a fixed recipe for getting certain types of mod. Right now it's totally random like Diablo2 gambling vendor. A total waste of time and credit, imo.
3. Restriction in inventory slot. Let's say Warfame's weapon borrows from ARPG classic prefix/suffix system, players are going to need lots of inventory slots to hold all of these weapons.
4. Mod system has not been fully explored to create varieties of build. TBH, even corrupted mods are just stat increase/decrease. There is no mod that change how powers work similar to D3 skill rune. Weapon mod is the same in this regard.

 

This. All of this. Weapons and Mods are such infertile ground for the game... Sad really...

Edited April 7, 2014 by ToeSama

[kscott190]

When I think about games that have been running for almost 10 years or longer (Ultima Online, EverQuest, WoW, Runescape, Eve Online, Diablo II, Counter Strike Source), I ask, what do they do to keep people interested? Will Warframe's systems accomplish the same things? Can you honestly say you will be interested in the focus system 9 years down the road? Will badlands control or missions really get your blood pumping 5 years from now? Will you be going ham on Proxy War for years to come? I really don't think so. None of these systems provide simultaneously interesting, dynamic, risky experiences.

 

I could go into detail about what makes all these long time games good, but I'll just say this: sometimes it's balanced competition (notice I didn't say PvP), tons of new content, high risk high reward situations, dynamic player interaction, player generated content, some do one thing very well, others do some things decently, but they all have these kinds of characteristics.

 

There is just too little personal risk or reward in Badlands, it's all on the shoulders of a collective group. Resources and credits go into or out of a vault players can't touch or take from (as of right now). Even if your team wins, you don't get anything. What you invest isn't proportional to what you get out. I think this is the closest to a system which could be built to last, but using all the current game mechanics, it's pretty pointless, especially for players who don't need resources or credits. I'd call those players the ones who are at endgame.

No actual gameplay content from Focus. It's a skill tree. Unless it looks like this I doubt it will change how or why people play the game, once they've gone through the content. Will this add countless character builds, introduce serious theorycrafting to the game, or come with extremely challenging content which requires its use? Not from what we've seen.

Nothing, from the looks of it, in Proxy War that will keep the game around for years, but it's what we know the least about. It's a faction reputation system. If it works like the reputation systems I've seen in other games with one, it will more or less be a grind to the top rank of whatever factions you prefer. At some point you climb the end of the ladder, though. I hope it's not like that.

I know Warframe is in beta and by now, don't expect DE to get it right the first time. I know making a game that lasts 10 years isn't easy and the games which survive that gauntlet of a decade are the ones that define genres. I know a lot of you are thinking "You haven't even played it yet?" I know. It's not out yet. I know. I get it. But we have a lot of information about the systems right now. Enough to discuss this. I appreciate that DE is working on this stuff which will most likely be pretty fun. But are these endgame systems, or just systems?

I just want to ask you guys, how timeless do you think the "endgame systems" will be?

What makes those type of games last for 10+ years is they have something called 'expansions' and not this DLC crap

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I could go into detail about what makes all these long time games good, but I'll just say this: sometimes it's balanced competition (notice I didn't say PvP), tons of new content, high risk high reward situations, dynamic player interaction, player generated content, some do one thing very well, others do some things decently, but they all have these kinds of characteristics.

...But Badlands provides (at least in theory) the balanced competition, the dynamic player interaction, and arguably the player generated content.

The important thing to remember, though, is that Warframe is a living product, so if Badlands looks like it's faltering, DE can always change it up.

[VegetableBasket]

...But Badlands provides (at least in theory) the balanced competition, the dynamic player interaction, and arguably the player generated content.The important thing to remember, though, is that Warframe is a living product, so if Badlands looks like it's faltering, DE can always change it up.

Right, there are things I really like about badlands, it just needs to maximize on that risk reward factor. Will clan officers have to pay out dividends to those who invest in a tower? Could players invest in clans as if they were publicly traded companies and receive fusion cores and credits when their team was successful? That would really make it much more intense and personal for everyone.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

 

When I think about games that have been running for almost 10 years or longer (Ultima Online, EverQuest, WoW, Runescape, Eve Online, Diablo II, Counter Strike Source), I ask, what do they do to keep people interested? Will Warframe's systems accomplish the same things? Can you honestly say you will be interested in the focus system 9 years down the road? Will badlands control or missions really get your blood pumping 5 years from now? Will you be going ham on Proxy War for years to come? I really don't think so. None of these systems provide simultaneously interesting, dynamic, risky experiences.

 

I could go into detail about what makes all these long time games good, but I'll just say this: sometimes it's balanced competition (notice I didn't say PvP), tons of new content, high risk high reward situations, dynamic player interaction, player generated content, some do one thing very well, others do some things decently, but they all have these kinds of characteristics.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here...

 

At best, Badlands becomes a turf war for resources based on what we've seen so far.  Unfortunately, it's a grindable turf war with no real value other than bragging rights.  On top of that, if the moon clans just got together into a few formal alliances but into one gigantic informal one, they could very easily dominate everything.  Now, I would argue that this would drive the tax on them down because with the moon clans running everything, there's stability.  No clan dare run against a giant juggernaut that can afford to only charge 3% tribute.  Even if they did, everyone would support the incumbent because they know that after victory they'll offer better rates and the actual gift from the clan for the support would likely be greater.

 

If Badlands (and Proxy war) have depth, then they could work.  Given DE's track record though, I doubt they'll have any.  I'd love to see a player-dominated meta, but I haven't the foggiest idea how to bring it about in Warframe.

[SolidSp33d]

Imo, what makes ARPG (which Warframe borrows a lot of elements from) lives longer isn't endgame. It's about loot and how player can create varieties of builds out of existing characters.

Like Cepmosod, I feel that Diablo3 offers richer experience in term of loot after loot2.0 was implemented. The game rewards you with properly leveled gear all the time. If the game fails to do so through RNG, Artisans are failsafe mechanic. It's a well-designed system that allows player to get proper gears anywhere, anytime.

Warframe has been unable to do so due to multiple reasons.

1. Static loot. It's something that I have been trying to point out for a very long time. The current mod system is like Diablo socketable items but without the usual magical prefix/suffix for weapon. This means a big problem for players since once you get one of it, that's all you need. You won't feel rewarding for getting another one of the same mod. It's value is drastically lowered after you get the first one.

2. Transmute system isn't working as a failsafe mechanic for RNG. We don't have a fixed recipe for getting certain types of mod. Right now it's totally random like Diablo2 gambling vendor. A total waste of time and credit, imo.

3. Restriction in inventory slot. Let's say Warfame's weapon borrows from ARPG classic prefix/suffix system, players are going to need lots of inventory slots to hold all of these weapons.

4. Mod system has not been fully explored to create varieties of build. TBH, even corrupted mods are just stat increase/decrease. There is no mod that change how powers work similar to D3 skill rune. Weapon mod is the same in this regard.

Indirect Or asymetrical PvP is needed with unique mechanic in it. When I say PvP I didn't mean in a classic TDM, I mean Badland or Proxy war. However, slapping invasion or defense with a new name isn't enough to draw players' attention for long. It needs something more than that. Personally, I think Badland will be another farming session (except leaderboard exist for Badland and it offers something for everyone). Proxy war has a good chance to be a candidate for player-generated content that has longevity surpassing classic Raid mechanic used in MMO. However, slapping existing game modes with a new name won't be enough. It needs to be more than that, a game mode that gives players a sense of both being a contender/defender of the solar rail.

 

So much truth in this it's ridiculous, and I've been saying this for a while. Although you've found some of the words and examples that escaped me.

 

Seriously, DE really needs to look into implementing these concepts.

I'd bet you there would be an uproar from those who are blindly afraid of the "big bad RNG monster" at first, but it will be far better for the game.

[Chaosdreamer]

I dont know if badlands will be enought or good , but this "conquer" area thing is going to make "war" between players ,huge clan vs little , basicly killing the little clan (you know the guys who wanted to be cheap at crafting dojo stuff)

 

Ultima Online, EverQuest, WoW, Runescape, Eve Online, Diablo II, Counter Strike Source

 

For those games , Ultima I dont know , EverQuest was for his "sandbox world" and awsome boss fight i saw some video, you can destroy everything , its impact the games , boss need huge raid that why....

 

WoW , his popularity is enought , but its has alot of function and epic fight/raid/pvp

Runescape no idea... Diablo wellsame as WoW, Counter strike is quite good i guess(you know its the 1.6 but upgraded (never played it yet)) and you play for fun or be the best add the clan match etc

[Filial-Devotion]

I think warframe will be around for a long time.