[Solved] Free Solar Rail Network Initiative

[Agent_of_Change]

 Truth.

 

 The two fastest ways to get yourself attacked is having a super high tax or having no tax at all.

 

 Set it too high and you just make enemies.

 

 Set it too low and you just open yourself up to be attacked because you gimp your own ability to maintain the tower.

 

 The trick is going to be fair tax rates for both the clan hosting the Rail and the players farming.

 

 Depending on the node and the kind of resources you can expect to see every mission somewhere from 5% to 10% can still be perfectly fair.

 

I will be honest, I will run the hell out of any solar rail with a 0% tax.  It seems to me that my principles as a member of Team Greed tell me that keeping all of my stuff is the greatest value.

 

Knowing that i am not alone in this attitude makes me think that while a 0% tax tower might be attacked it will certainly not be easy to bring down.  Though maintenance may be the demise depending on how that works.

[Nexzalas]

Honestly we wont be seeing them right off the band-wagon that is U13 since they're Clan Research-ables (That's right, new words, ye) and it'll take about 3 or 4 days before they're done, even then you'll need to construct it which might take another 3 to 4 days unless [DE] makes this rush-able (huehuehue) with platinum for the first week or so which could go either way depending on what happens with the taxation of the rails.

 

Frankly I really enjoy the idea of a player base drived economy (i.e. EVE Online) and that either large clans or a group of small clans could change how we farm for Orokin Cells because let's all face the facts, as much as I enjoy Sargus Ruk's third-grader speaking skills he gets real old when you're farming to get 10 cells.

 

Also it gives very far and along clans something to do instead of decorating their little PvP rooms to look like bouncy rooms.

[Blatantfool]

I just hope that it doesn't split our community like the gradivus dilemma event did.

 

 Why? If the community can reach a point where it is that interested and that animated about anything again then DE has hit the jackpot.

[Sixty5]

I foresee a number of large powerful alliances forming.

 

If I have any say in the matter, I'll join up with what is left of Warbros and put my grind there

[Blatantfool]

I will be honest, I will run the hell out of any solar rail with a 0% tax.  It seems to me that my principles as a member of Team Greed tell me that keeping all of my stuff is the greatest value.

 

Knowing that i am not alone in this attitude makes me think that while a 0% tax tower might be attacked it will certainly not be easy to bring down.  Though maintenance may be the demise depending on how that works.

 

 It isn't that a Taxless rail will lack defenders.

 

 It is that a Taxless rail can only be repaired through the effort of the grinding clan members who own it. Constant attacks will whittle away at their Clan vault and finally at their own personal stores.

 

 To be honest, you can almost consider an empty clan vault something like a game over state for Dark Sectors. With so many potential attackers how could you ever keep up repairs through grind alone? These rails wont be cheap.

 

 That is why the taxes exist at all. A slow trickle to fill the coffers to allow the hosting clan to let everyone run it.

 

 Taxless Rails are only good for the people farming the rail. The clan has to find a way to make up for the potential trouble that comes from opening themselves up as an easy target.

 

 

 Carebear rails can hurt your clan if you don't REALLY step up to bat.

[Venarge]

Honestly....... even if we set this up, I don't see how it'll last. Nothing to stop big clans and alliances from simply telling their members to spam through their own rails, to kill the free one when it's being contested.

I'm suddenly finding myself not liking this game very much.

Wow man, what an insult.

 

You dont even have to play the badlands that much. You wont even feel the taxes since they are paid after the mission. The actual reward will be yours. I dont see why your whining that much.... You have to do something about it and join an alliance to battle the big ones.

 

Your a tenno.

Not a little child.

[Braken]

 Why? If the community can reach a point where it is that interested and that animated about anything again then DE has hit the jackpot.

I disagree. Recent events have shown us how bad the community can get when there's conflict. (MMOBomb Poll, Gradivus, etc).

 

I'd rather not have something added to the game that makes that a long term problem.

[Blatantfool]

I disagree. Recent events have shown us how bad the community can get when there's conflict. (MMOBomb Poll, Gradivus, etc).

 

I'd rather not have something added to the game that makes that a long term problem.

 

  I'd rather have an interesting game than a calm one. It isn't that I don't understand what part of that whole situation you really hate - but I feel like it'd be boring and vanilla to avoid letting people have a little showmanship.

[Agent_of_Change]

 It isn't that a Taxless rail will lack defenders.

 

 It is that a Taxless rail can only be repaired through the effort of the grinding clan members who own it. Constant attacks will whittle away at their Clan vault and finally at their own personal stores.

 

 To be honest, you can almost consider an empty clan vault something like a game over state for Dark Sectors. With so many potential attackers how could you ever keep up repairs through grind alone? These rails wont be cheap.

 

 That is why the taxes exist at all. A slow trickle to fill the coffers to allow the hosting clan to let everyone run it.

 

 Taxless Rails are only good for the people farming the rail. The clan has to find a way to make up for the potential trouble that comes from opening themselves up as an easy target.

 

 

 Carebear rails can hurt your clan if you don't REALLY step up to bat.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for someone running their clan finances into the dirt for the benefit of my clan and I think that there will be more than a few volunteers to take up that mantle.  I just don't see a reason to insult or try to convince them otherwise.

 

I'm not suggesting that it's the best idea, or that it isn't doomed slightly more than than actually putting a tax on a rail (let's face it rails are going to rise and fail regardless of if they have a tax or not) but I am suggesting, purely out of self interest, that we not disuade those willing to take this course in order to ride that gravy train while it lasts. 

 

I will support them, I will fight for them so long as I'm getting paid, I certainly won't discourage them from trying, and I will laugh my way to the bank.

 

Edit:  after re reading this it occurred to me I missed something in this thread:

 

GO TEAM GREED Profit is not about ethics it's about opportunism.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Agent_of_Change

[Venarge]

  I'd rather have an interesting game than a calm one. It isn't that I don't understand what part of that whole situation you really hate - but I feel like it'd be boring and vanilla to avoid letting people have a little showmanship.

I dont get all this either.... People want something to fight for. But now that they get it, they dislike it...

 

As far as i know, the taxes are paid after the mission right? And that solar rail owners dont have anything to say about permission or badlands reward.

Therefore, the only thing someone could loose while doing badlands is a bit of resources he gathered via the mission.

Its not that big of a deal....

Edited April 9, 2014 by Venarge

[Blatantfool]

Don't get me wrong I'm all for someone running their clan finances into the dirt for the benefit of my clan but I think that there will be more than a few volunteers to take up that mantle.

 

I'm not suggesting that it's the best idea, or that it isn't doomed slightly more than than actually putting a tax on a rail (let's face it rails are going to rise and fail regardless of if they have a tax or not) but I am suggesting, purely out of self interest, that we not disuade those willing to take this course in order to ride that gravy train while it lasts. 

 

I will support them, I will fight for them so long as I'm getting paid, I certainly won't discourage them from trying, and I will laugh my way to the bank.

 

 Space Pirate Clans are awesome. Now that I think about it, I like your attitude.

[Jathniel]

  If you put towers up for free to be cute expect other clans like Warbros to stick it to you. The tax does exist to help keep the tower repaired after it gets contested. Choose to leave it taxless and you'll have to support your tower entirely through grind.

Does it?

Was this said in the devstream? That the tax is to maintain the rail?

If not, a free rail, is going to be "cute" and harmful to whoever "Warbros" is and anyone else.

If it IS, then this is exactly what I'm talking about. DE is enabling players to bother and harrass others that don't want to have anything to do with them.

Conclave was optional pvp.

This isn't.

And neither is sticking your hands in my pocket.

Since it isn't. We'll just have to either complain about the system, exploit it and break it in some way, or do what we can to get it undone.

 

I don't much appreciate DE telling you that you have permission to take my S#&$.

I played this game a long time for these resources, you don't own them.

Not even a piece.

Players and big alliances and gangs setting themselves up as highwaymen doesn't change that.

If anyone agrees with this, we can make a free solar rail, and maintain it through contribution.

If we can't do that, we find a way to break the system, or complain about it to excessive degree.

If someone tried to rob me, I would put a .44 magnum round in their chest. That's not a viable option here, so something's got to give.

 

[Agent_of_Change]

 Space Pirate Clans are awesome. Now that I think about it, I like your attitude.

 

Once you think about it, self interest is easy for everyone to get behind.

[SoulEchelon]

I think you're correct.

Still, I hope people will be reasonable, and either go for no tax, or super low taxes.

@SoulEchelon

They showed and said on the latest livestream that the rail locations will match the level of the star node they're on.

 

 

Ah okay, I didn't catch that part.

 

But yeah, I do remember what Loco said being stated on the livestream. There actually isn't an admission fee to these places. Just taxes on what you -will- obtain there.

 

Either way it will be an intriguing balancing act that DE will have to come up with. Besides - if a clan makes too many high taxes they simply won't have people playing their nodes. No people playing their nodes = their tower slowly deteriorates because they'll be forced to pay out of pocket for its upkeep. That gives every other clan a chance to take over, and since most of the community might resent that clan for posting high taxes, there's a high probability that they'll lose their tower.

 

This whole thing is really interesting.

[Jathniel]

 It isn't that a Taxless rail will lack defenders.

 

 It is that a Taxless rail can only be repaired through the effort of the grinding clan members who own it. Constant attacks will whittle away at their Clan vault and finally at their own personal stores.

 

 To be honest, you can almost consider an empty clan vault something like a game over state for Dark Sectors. With so many potential attackers how could you ever keep up repairs through grind alone? These rails wont be cheap.

 

 That is why the taxes exist at all. A slow trickle to fill the coffers to allow the hosting clan to let everyone run it.

 

 Taxless Rails are only good for the people farming the rail. The clan has to find a way to make up for the potential trouble that comes from opening themselves up as an easy target.

 

 

 Carebear rails can hurt your clan if you don't REALLY step up to bat.

This has nothing to do with "Carebearing", and everything to do with getting you space pirate trolls to not ruin the game, or profit from, the efforts of others.

Fk that S#&$.

If I don't want to play WITH you, I should not be made to play FOR you.

Fk that to hell.

[marbatico]

Does it?

Was this said in the devstream? That the tax is to maintain the rail?

If not, a free rail, is going to be "cute" and harmful to whoever "Warbros" is and anyone else.

If it IS, then this is exactly what I'm talking about. DE is enabling players to bother and harrass others that don't want to have anything to do with them.

Conclave was optional pvp.

This isn't.

And neither is sticking your hands in my pocket.

Since it isn't. We'll just have to either complain about the system, exploit it and break it in some way, or do what we can to get it undone.

 

I don't much appreciate DE telling you that you have permission to take my S#&$.

I played this game a long time for these resources, you don't own them.

Not even a piece.

Players and big alliances and gangs setting themselves up as highwaymen doesn't change that.

If anyone agrees with this, we can make a free solar rail, and maintain it through contribution.

If we can't do that, we find a way to break the system, or complain about it to excessive degree.

If someone tried to rob me, I would put a .44 magnum round in their chest. That's not a viable option here, so something's got to give.

it is optional, just don't play the dark sector missions.

[Tsukinoki]

@marbatico

Until there are resources/mods/what-have-you behind a solar rail that you *need* for something ingame that aren't found anywhere else and some active mega-alliance is holding it with overly high tax rate and no one can take it from them...

[SoulEchelon]

Does it?

Was this said in the devstream? That the tax is to maintain the rail?

If not, a free rail, is going to be "cute" and harmful to whoever "Warbros" is and anyone else.

If it IS, then this is exactly what I'm talking about. DE is enabling players to bother and harrass others that don't want to have anything to do with them.

Conclave was optional pvp.

This isn't.

And neither is sticking your hands in my pocket.

Since it isn't. We'll just have to either complain about the system, exploit it and break it in some way, or do what we can to get it undone.

 

I don't much appreciate DE telling you that you have permission to take my S#&$.

I played this game a long time for these resources, you don't own them.

Not even a piece.

Players and big alliances and gangs setting themselves up as highwaymen doesn't change that.

If anyone agrees with this, we can make a free solar rail, and maintain it through contribution.

If we can't do that, we find a way to break the system, or complain about it to excessive degree.

If someone tried to rob me, I would put a .44 magnum round in their chest. That's not a viable option here, so something's got to give.

 

Woah calm down.

 

A: No one's "taking your S#&$". The taxes are on what you obtain on that node - not your own inventory. You're acting like it'll be over a 50% tax or something, which if that was even possible, no one would go to that node anyway and, as stated in my earlier post, that clan's sector would eventually fall to a better one with better taxes.

 

B: This...IS an optional "pvp" experience. What, do you think all the current nodes will be taken over by clans? No. The Badlands/Dark Sectors are their own nodes that will be completely optional for people to play on/conquer.

 

No one's going to "rob" you. Wow, chill.

[Venarge]

Does it?

Was this said in the devstream? That the tax is to maintain the rail?

If not, a free rail, is going to be "cute" and harmful to whoever "Warbros" is and anyone else.

If it IS, then this is exactly what I'm talking about. DE is enabling players to bother and harrass others that don't want to have anything to do with them.

Conclave was optional pvp.

This isn't.

And neither is sticking your hands in my pocket.

Since it isn't. We'll just have to either complain about the system, exploit it and break it in some way, or do what we can to get it undone.

 

I don't much appreciate DE telling you that you have permission to take my S#&$.

I played this game a long time for these resources, you don't own them.

Not even a piece.

Players and big alliances and gangs setting themselves up as highwaymen doesn't change that.

If anyone agrees with this, we can make a free solar rail, and maintain it through contribution.

If we can't do that, we find a way to break the system, or complain about it to excessive degree.

If someone tried to rob me, I would put a .44 magnum round in their chest. That's not a viable option here, so something's got to give.

 

It still is optional. You dont have to play the badlands unless you want super rare stuff.

And super rare stuff naturally comes with a high price!

 

And you can do something about it.

 

You can fight them!

[Agent_of_Change]

@marbatico

Until there are resources/mods/what-have-you behind a solar rail that you *need* for something ingame that aren't found anywhere else and some active mega-alliance is holding it with overly high tax rate and no one can take it from them...

 

what you are missing is that if someone has a crazy high tax rate, it's not the clan that opposed them fighting them, it's that clan vs. EVERYONE online.

 

If some group is being irrational, there is very little hope for them to hold onto their rail, because everyone can join the fight.

[SoulEchelon]

@marbatico

Until there are resources/mods/what-have-you behind a solar rail that you *need* for something ingame that aren't found anywhere else and some active mega-alliance is holding it with overly high tax rate and no one can take it from them...

 

I think DE's smart enough to not do something like that. Let's give them some credit.

[Otaiken]

@marbatico

Until there are resources/mods/what-have-you behind a solar rail that you *need* for something ingame that aren't found anywhere else and some active mega-alliance is holding it with overly high tax rate and no one can take it from them...

 

Your slope is a little slippery there buddy.

[OniDax]

The Solar Coalition will institute a tax, albeit a low tax. It'll help with the costs of building a solar rail. If you're going to even venture to the Dark Sectors, chances are you'll have to pay something.

[Ameretat]

Death and taxes...the two universal constants.

[Blatantfool]

This has nothing to do with "Carebearing", and everything to do with getting you space pirate trolls to not ruin the game, or profit from, the efforts of others.

Fk that S#&$.

If I don't want to play WITH you, I should not be made to play FOR you.

Fk that to hell.

 

 If you can't stand the heat stay out of the Kitchen.

 

 You've got no business claiming a Dark Sector zone for your clan if you aren't ready to fight to hold it. I don't care if you think that is fair. If you think Dark Sectors are supposed to be boring, vanillia mission runs then you misunderstand the entire point of it.