De, You Took What Should Have Been Fun And Just Turned It Into A Grind

[ensignvidiot]

without combo mods it's like it was at melee 1.0 spamming E

 

So?

 

I can Counter Kill, i can block ALL FORMS of knockdown, Combo Systems allows me to kill anything, and new parrying allows my fragile frames to survive.

 

The only thing i cant use is the unique finisher for each combo chain.

 

I can wait.

 

There is a trade channel filled with people willing to grind for everyone else. All for a small amount of platinum and a spare rhino chassis

[OneMember]

Have to agree... The way they "share! the new mods is a big joke. People would have been much more happy with delayed patch and better way of getting the stuff.

Edited April 10, 2014 by OneMember

[PheatheR]

Beautifully said.

[ApathyZer0]

So?

 

I can Counter Kill, i can block ALL FORMS of knockdown, Combo Systems allows me to kill anything, and new parrying allows my fragile frames to survive.

 

The only thing i cant use is the unique finisher for each combo chain.

 

I can wait.

 

There is a trade channel filled with people willing to grind for everyone else. All for a small amount of platinum and a spare rhino chassis

This guy gets it.

[tuocs]

agreed, it's really stupid to put effort into something and have it wasted because RNG would rather drop the same S#&$ over and over, the stances all need to be common and easy to obtain, and the mod drop rate of uncommon+ needs to be increased drastically, i have played over ten hours of warframe, i have 491 mods total 271 are duplicates and 144 are cores that means i only have 76 unique mods that's only 15% of my mods that means 55% of the time i got nothing but duplicates. that's ridiculous. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by tuocs

[Drakenreiter]

 

Well said, sir, pretty much my thoughts on this matter as well. I feel more like your friend though, only I didn't really have a break from the game.

 

Don't mind my little thread hijack here... just want to mention a problem I have with the new melee stuff that others probably won't mention, also a suggestion to fix it.

 

So, I don't use default key bindings. I always had my melee on the right mouse button as in any game if I see that melee has any kind of importance I need it on my mouse. Now, I still have it on that, but the controls are just clunky this way and if I set them up the way I want to the problem arises. What I want to do is melee attack on left mouse button and melee block on right mouse button. Thing is, if I put the attack on left (and the game does let me do this) at the same time as fire, firing won't work, nor will melee if it's sheated as they override each other. However, there's an easy fix here. Make the sheated melee attack a separate bind (by default it's the same the unsheated melee attack - E or whatever it is - and yes, these 2 actions, these 2 melee attacks need to be bindable on the same key). This will allow for players like me to fully customize their layout instead of being limited by that overlap if we so desire and it'll do absolutely nothing for those that don't want this or don't care.

[unknow99]

Since the hotfix, I got the first Machete stance without even searching. (Came from a soldier.)

 

I think they got it. :) Now what about that Hydroid thing?

I'm pretty sure it will be toned down in a few days or even less. A topic like this is a feedback gold mine for them, unless you're just here to complain for the complaining.

[(PSN)Mr_Goddamn_It]

This is all I can say

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/210755-thank-you-pcnoreally-thank-you/

[Reclusiarch_Grimaldus]

Very well said OP!
I was really looking forward to the update and was hoping for some new and fun challenges coming along with it (Vay Hek mainly).
But as soon as i realized the amount of grind i had to do, just to get the opportunity to fight Vay Hek i just quit the game and at the moment i really have no desire of coming back in the near future. It was like sudden burn-out. I just couldn´t take it anymore that the Dev´s seem completely unable to understand their playerbase. I was hoping to get some fun out of this update. Maybe even some kind of challenge and means to use my high ranking equipment on.
But then, to be able to enjoy this i have to grind stupid, repetetive missions over and over just to get to a bossfight that most likely will last 10 seconds at most (thats just an assumption based on my experience with the game) and isn´t even worth the effort.

I´m not even mad because of the Dev´s obviously trying to force people into buying the new frame (although it´s quite pathetic). I really don´t like the new frame that much at all.
But it´s just so frustrating that them trying to force people into buying Plat, is hindering me from having fun in the game without stupid amounts of grind.

[PlebbyMilliner]

That was not the point, although I do see where you're coming from as others have posted similar e-mails.

 

Much like Oxium drops, certain nodes may drop better than others. In my case, I got 3 drops from the same place.

 

As for the other mods that are rare, well, much like a lot of others. I have never found a "Rage" in the wild, a "Blind Rage" or some of the others.

 

None of the melee mods are required to use. They just add the combo depth. The blocking, charge damage fundamentals are still there. It's like adding a duration mod to your frame. It's not required, but adds something different/special.

 

If want to suck all the fun out of something and just grind for a specific doodad, then go for it. Or use what you have.

 

Wow, your luck simply proves that there is no grind, stances are abundant, and that no is complaining or grinding for 8+ hours at a time to get these new mods. 

 

What's the point of saying this? 

 

Not to mention half the mods are literally rare, so they will be by default the minority of the mods you find. Then if you want to find a specific one.... 

 

Yeah. 

 

 

[Aishi]

Might as well go all the way and remove all the skill mods off frames and make us farm it.

Was it stupid before? Yes. This is why it was changed.

Is it stupid now? Yes, that's why we get our skill mods right when we make the frame.

Is this the equivalent of Melee 2.0's stances? You know the answer.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Aishi

[xRufus7x]

Is this the equivalent of Melee 2.0's stances? You know the answer.

No?

[-CM-LEMMING]

http://i.imgur.com/uqfYJBn.png

your point is invalid. 

Edited April 11, 2014 by -CM-LEMMING

[CelticMoss]

http://i.imgur.com/uqfYJBn.png

your point is invalid. 

your point has been buffed not to long ago

[Zardica]

Don't let this thread die, DE needs to see this, worded better then I ever could.

[STARSBarry]

I have to agree with this, also... why is EVERY weapon now shop or clan research lol 300 oxium

 

im finding this slowly ticking me off, I know DE have to balance it so that people feel like they need to buy stuff but the problem is IM NOT ENJOYING THE GAME AFTER I BUY STUFF.

 

this is a major flaw, since I have no stance mods for the weapons I use regularly I feel like im just playing melle 1.0 BUT WITHOUT THE OPTION TO CHARGE!!! super fun much improved A++

 

why... why can you take such a simple and fun sounding feature and make it an unenjoyable chore for people to use.... I feel like stance cards should of been closer to frame skill cards, in that when you craft or buy it you get one of each and can switch different ones in and out to suit your playstyle. What I got instead was a pretty cool looking katana that I know I have to pay at least 200 plat right now to make it do what it should of been doing to start with.

Edited April 11, 2014 by STARSBarry

[realgrilgamer]

gridning/farming aside the real issue is that this game is horribly balanced and has a very low skill cap.

[CelticMoss]

and i just tried the *buffed* drop rates for the melee mods

doesn't look like they changed

[vandalism37]

I hate to say this, but I don't think the vision for this game will be anything other than grinding. I've had some harsh thoughts in my head as well as expressed here and other places about DE and the direction of the game. I don't want this post to be like that, though. Having played melee tonight, it was kind of fun. The new tiles are alright. I bought the update pack because I had extra plat enough to do it and I wanted Hydro.

 

That being said:

 

What is this game other than grind? There is no real plot, meaningful interaction between players besides what their frames can do (like I can shoot a thing trapped by vauban or zap it with volt) but there is no real combo working (think Guild Wars 2, interactive combos that reward teamwork. If you're not familiar with that, check it out. It at least adds some thought and strategy.) There is only a system of leveling and re-leveling weapons, items, frames, mods, etc. There is no variation. There is no depth. There is no character to this game beyond the really cool art style. There is a nascent plot, intriguing factions that could be explored; an interesting setting, to be sure. But it's all just thrown away for more of the same: more new weapons, more new places to run 5/5 missions for that orokin cell, more new convoluted systems to get very little in return. The new frame is really cool, but M Prime still clears a room. If you have that, the only thing you're working toward is aesthetic differences and minor playstyle differences.

 

This is a downfall of their pricing and content model. The game is free to play, so massive amounts of people can theoretically play. This puts DE in a lurch to serve up content that is satisfying, or to have any real obligations. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Don't pay for instant gratification. Problem with the grind? You can't complain, it's free! The pricing model, content model, tries to have things both ways: freedom from obligations and creativity because they are "nice" for letting you play a "free" game. But it's not free. You pay with your time. They can't live off of your time, they can't eat dinner off of your time. So they have to put things behind the wall of a grind, or else nobody would pay anything for the game. There need to be incentives to pay money. While people argue over what pay to win is, which is a childish, inane argument, they sneak in more of what is essentially the same. Just more, not better, not different, just the same. There have been small evolutions, such as the change to infested, invasions, etc. But what about changes the baseline model of the game? Run more missions, get more supplies, build more gear.

 

What I'm saying is this game is more of a showcase for a game engine and an economic experiment with an expanded Skinner box than it is a game. It's fun mindlessly blowing things up, but that is the extent of the game.

 

I would prefer not having the free to play model in exchange for buying a game with content, or paying a subscription fee for better-implemented content. Weekly events would be super neat. Weekly cosmetic items would be nice. New mission types, revamps of useless abilities, Quality Assurance testing, research and development of possible game plans, open worlds, item balancing, plot arcs, guild territory, expansions of map sizes to zones rather than small individual maps, some kind of interactivity between frame abilities to create combos, revamps of the flawed mod system in which 80% of mods serve no purpose because they are not the best of the selection, and myriad other improvements would be nice. I don't know that DE could afford or manage this with their current vision for the game. 

 

It's easier to churn out "kill x thing, collect y part, combine it with 3 other tenno to fight z instance" types of events than it is to try to shift a paradigm into a more evolved state.

 

I doubt DE would read this, and I doubt further that they even have a concern for most of these things. As long as the cash shop is turning a profit, there is no real incentive to improve; they can continue to provide more of the same.

 

I've spent too much money on this game so far. I can't reward more of the same. I got enough of what there is now for what I've paid. I will continue to play and try to collect some stuff, do the new fight, check out more stances, upgrade my mods. But what is there to do after all of that? Where is the longevity in this game? I think I could invest more money if there are better business practices, but until then, I have a somewhat sour taste in my mouth.

Edited April 11, 2014 by vandalism37

[Neogeo]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Hiding a basic feature behind a RNG grind wall is the worst. Many people are ok with RNG grind because they don't need to best gear to enjoy the game. DE going to push these people away by making them grind for a game feature.

[Executioner_Grendel]

Everything about this speaks to me. I'm witnessing Tenno burn hundreds of plat either in trade or mod packs just to get a chance at stances we should be able to to get easily, or grind themselves into oblivion over a single stance.

 

This update wasn't meant to be another mass item addition where grind and pain were the key, it was meant to be a game changer. Instead we have late release dates, sub par base melee, and RNG throttling us to no end.

 

I want to love Warframe, I really really do, but time and time again its one big angry slap across the face. Maybe well get easier stance drops, but in the most likely of cases they'll just sell em all in a bundle for plat. I pushed money into this game hoping it would grow strong, I fear i'm watching it fall.  

Edited April 11, 2014 by Executioner_Grendel

[Wurdyburd]

I hate to say this, but I don't think the vision for this game will be anything other than grinding. *snip*

but until then, I have a somewhat sour taste in my mouth.

 

You've brought up some decently valid points that I don't see around the forums.

All of Warframe's community complain about the grind, yes, but most don't seem to realize that's all this game is. Even elements like the Codex demands that you grind to obtain 20 Scavenger Drone scans, or 3 scans of Lephantis, for absolutely no reward other than the snippet of lore that's released few and far between, and this update that allowed the user base to quickly locate stance mods.

The problem is that there is no reason why such a trait should even need to be used in the first place. It is, for all it's bells and whistles, meaningless grind.

 

When this game was in it's early days, it was the dark and mysterious of the free to play world. Who were these Tenno, what is their goal, what do we hope to accomplish? Questions like these were intriguing for lore-seeking players, who sought the answers enough to stay with the game and see where it went.

Over time, DE tried to introduce lore, while still holding itself back in fear that it might not work out, out of negligence, or out sheer confusion with what to do with this thing that's fallen into their lap. The result is many, many updates that only served to confuse players with nebulous lore that didn't provide any of the intrigue or excitement that players were expecting. It doesn't even go as far as to say "for each question answered, two more spring up"; no, set aside those old questions, let's just make two more for the thrill of it and hope that's what attracted players in the first place.

Lore IS enough to attract a crowd. Games like Dark Souls has a wealth of lore, that still leaves the players with so many unanswered questions; the difference here is, Warframe doesn't supply the sheer depth of world that Dark Souls does. Who are the Orokin? Why do we CARE who they were? We don't, not really. We haven't been given a reason to care.

Who are the Grineer? How did they get the way they did? Surely somebody noticed the genetic ramifications of their technology before they reached such a disastrous state. What are their goals? Solar domination? What is this, the Joker seeking to kill Batman just because?

Who are the Corpus? Why do they differ so much from the Grineer? What are THEIR goals? Profit? For what? Do we care why? Nope.

As you stated, this game is just about running around, blowing stuff up. The game has developed to be from taking down a few crew members in a ship, to halting the tide of a seemingly endless tide of apparently expendable lives that spawn from nowhere, flinging them about with explosions and magic. Which while fun, doesn't offer replay value. You don't go to see a summer blockbuster more than once or twice because there's no depth to it. And there's no depth to Warframe, either.

 

While I don't want to see players leave, it may end up being the action that causes DE to re-evaluate their business model. Causing painful amounts of overhype, only to fall flat on your face when the lights are on and the curtain opens, doesn't pay. The community gets near-rabid every major release, waiting for the moment they can load up the game and play the content. But that's simply not what happens.

Instead, we're fed RNG, as players have complained, but more than that, we're fed DELAYS. It took me two weeks after Zephyr was released, not just because of grinding, but because of WAITING. Waiting for a room to build, waiting for the research to finish, waiting for each individual part to finish researching, waiting for each individual part to finish building, then waiting three days for the frame to complete and actually be used.

People have stated that we're in beta. People have stated to be patient. Why have a beta community that requires the players to wait, and grind, just to experience content.

At this rate, some players may not get the new content for a week, or more, depending on their hours logged. Some might not get the stance mod for their favourite weapon for MONTHS. That's ridiculous, for a normal game release, and especially for a beta. DE needs to pick a side of the fence to land on; either we're testing this game, and need to be given the tools to properly experience content that frankly, REALLY needs testing at this point, or they declare this a released game, and be serious about their deadlines, and their content. This 'pick and choose' model is rubbish and is killing the community.

[DominusKaiser]

I got hyped for the Melee 2.0 and came back once again(I always do when an update comes up) and once again the grind kills any fun,it was fun back then when it was all about playing with friends,killing things,yelling "stalker!" at the mic and preparing for it,300+ hours that I do not regret but I just have this sadness of how much the game changed into this grind machine that just takes so many hours that is just not fun anymore,the whole Nekros drama back then made me quit and Im still annoyed to see that it is still expensive to even buy it..

Anyway I love to think the Melee system can be its own thing now and I would enjoy it if it wasn't for all this farming and grinding walls everywhere and I know the forums get heated on every update,but really,it's ridiculous to see how this is turning into an attempt to keep the game alive and keep people on the game for more hours for low rewards with crazy drops and rng and core mechanics being stripped for more grinding.

Edited April 11, 2014 by DominusKaiser

[Psycomet]

I had posted this elsewhere so I'll copy paste and add something. +1 to OP. Buy a BP, get the materials, make the thing was much simpler. Although I won't advocate we go back to that for every item.

 

"I think DE made it apparent through numerous slips that what they don't like is them spending days, weeks or even months to work on new content and the playerbase just burning through it in a day. This can be frustrating from any point of view. Thus the grind.

 

But I think this is a feature of the gaming world overall. Every game development is like this. 3-4 years go behind making a game polished and then in the 10 hours after release people have already started uploading "Walkthroughs". The initial hype is the main thing. But tidbits of fixing won't solve what is already an impossible grind for some people with tough work schedules."

 

Now this is just me saying my side of the thing. I wanted to enjoy the new frame and the new system. But this has become impossible for me. So much so that I've already made an informed decision not to try making the vay hek key. If I do get time somehow this week, I will do my usual grind and get prime parts to sell. That just seems like an easier option now.

[vandalism37]

You've brought up some decently valid points that I don't see around the forums.

All of Warframe's community complain about the grind, yes, but most don't seem to realize that's all this game is.

 

The true testament to the ineptitude surrounding the development of this game is that I was far more interested in reading this post than I was by any of the events presented thus far or the systems by which we, as players, achieve advancement within the game itself. You proposed more compelling questions and lines of thought in this one post than are explored through the dialogue of the game now, or ever were throughout its history. 

 

This game has wholly traded substance for style, and works to confound its player base with exceedingly complex and tangled systems that all lead back to the same stale activities into perpetuity.