De, You Took What Should Have Been Fun And Just Turned It Into A Grind

[Mak_Gohae]

DE never lost touch wit the audience it just looks like a certain part of the audience doesnt understand what the game is. There is a big RPG loot side to this game, so what would make anyone think that this aspect is going to be forgotten randomly to during an update? This happens every update, it's the same thing. It's clear that you folks do not understand the game.  Can both sides come closer to a mid point? Sure. But to come close to a mid point BOTH side need to give a bit and certain members of the audience are not doing that, and by not doing that it very likely that DE isnt going to do it either.

[(PSN)nightmare1100]

All of my old clan (i left it 2 days ago) members already quit warframe for dark souls 2, FF14 and believe it or not cod ghosts. All of them call it grindframe and i don't blame them. Once a decent game hit ps4, i'll be gone as well if something doesn't change. 

[And_Now_I_Dance]

DE never lost touch wit the audience it just looks like a certain part of the audience doesnt understand what the game is. There is a big RPG loot side to this game, so what would make anyone think that this aspect is going to be forgotten randomly to during an update? This happens every update, it's the same thing. It's clear that you folks do not understand the game.  Can both sides come closer to a mid point? Sure. But to come close to a mid point BOTH side need to give a bit and certain members of the audience are not doing that, and by not doing that it very likely that DE isnt going to do it either.

 

While I understand that grinding is, and always will be, a big part of the game, this is just something I don't feel deserved to be behind such a large grind wall.  Melee 2.0 improves almost every aspect of the game.  It does whats most important for a grind based RPG, helps make the grinding actually fun.  Forcing a grind just to improve basic game mechanics seems counter productive, and I think that in this instance in particular it could have been handled much better.

[LGear]

DE never lost touch wit the audience it just looks like a certain part of the audience doesnt understand what the game is. There is a big RPG loot side to this game, so what would make anyone think that this aspect is going to be forgotten randomly to during an update?

 

There's a difference between having stuff like Nightmare Mods and certain Rare mods being hidden behind RNG, and something like Stances being so. Stances are supposed to be an essential part of Melee 2.0 in the same way that Warframe Powers are essential to a Warframe. Hiding something that is supposed to be a big part of a new gameplay mechanic behind the unforgiving RNG grind is just distasteful in my opinion.

Edited April 11, 2014 by LGear

[Oz270]

Think this is more of new update rage.

 

Remember the Nekros?

Zeph oxy grind?

Give it a week or so and we will all have most of the mods, sure the RNG can be really unforgiving right now but hey~ they just released a new update, if anything experience from this game shows that DE tweaks the drop rates to make it more forgiving.

 

Though I do wish that DE switches the RNG with extreme difficulty so it seems like you have a real fighting chance.

[Talkkno]

Pretty much summed up my own experience with the update. I haven't been playing much recently, but I've logged a considerable amount of time in the game already and was looking forward to this update; expecting it to rekindle a little of my enthusiasm for the game. Despite knowing stances would be behind an RNG wall I had hoped for easy access to them. Overall I'm really disappointed that DE has chosen to make this newly updated core game play mechanic so difficult to experience in full after all the anticipation.

[MrJxt]

I'm not even motivated to play because I can't be bothered grinding dozens of hours just to obtain stance mods just to try out different melee weapons.

 

What they should've done is provide at least one stance mod for each weapon type then allow us to farm the other rarer stance mod.

[Casval_Rouge]

I was lucky enough to have stored up a bunch of mods where I was able to transmute for the stance and channeling mods.  So for me, it was instant fun and excitement for me, I had a blast until hotfix 1 came out.  Which I took as a sign to go to bed and play later.  Now that it is fixed, I'm having more fun than I ever had in this game since Update 7-8. 

 

But I definitely understand the frustration of not even have ONE stance to at least get a taste of 2.0.  I don't want to put the blame of DE completely, they did work their &#! off to get the update out.  People do make mistakes, and because of how great I see update 13, I'm biased.  Yet unfortunately, DE have consistently put content behind RNG walls, that is hard to defend.  This isn't the first time.  Until they changed the drop rate on boss drops, it was an absolute pain to get new Warframes.  Now it is the stances. 

 

Please DE, in the future, at least give the players a tease or demo of new mechanics, or even contents. IE. 1 free Void key when the void was introduced, etc.  So they can have a taste, and have something to look forward to and grind for, rather than getting dejected and frustrated. 

[Escantell]

hell, a basic stance mod, say a generic mod that can be used on every single melee mod that was added to everyone's inventory, that lets you do SOME sort of combo would have been fine.  I've spent around 10 hours trying to get stances, and got...  nothing.  big fat zero.  theres something really screwed up when  you can grind for 10 hours and not get a singe stance.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Escantell]

Aaaand that killed it.

[raikien]

I've gotten a stance mod for scythes and hand to hand i've only played maybe four hours into update 13 maybe I'm just lucky...?

[FedorHooch]

Very good post. Basic stance mods should have been bundled with the weapons.

[carnalKaiser]

It would seem that the game takes a half step forward, and two steps back.
Quite frankly I'm stunned by the lack of lateral thinking from DE.
Gameplay improvement is far too slow, new content is added too sparsely, they couldn't meet a deadline so they added a secondary countdown to their countdown, and now they've decided to not only shut their most anticipated boss fight behind an arbitrary grind wall (a simpler one, but still a grind wall) but to also introduce stance mods that you have to grind for in order to get.
It seems that DE has a strong double nature - the artistic department is fantastic, with original sounds, nice character design, lovely voice work and wonderful atmosphere for the missions... and then we have the actual gameplay department that managed to break something as simple as Rhino's stomp twice and had to add a hotfix on the day of the big update.
Given how long Warframe has been out, these are issues that shouldn't even have cropped up the first place. I do realize that the game is still a beta, but that's hardly an excuse at this point. To defend it would be to accept it.

Edited April 11, 2014 by carnalKaiser

[UrielColtan]

So?

 

I can Counter Kill, i can block ALL FORMS of knockdown, Combo Systems allows me to kill anything, and new parrying allows my fragile frames to survive.

 

The only thing i cant use is the unique finisher for each combo chain.

 

I can wait.

 

There is a trade channel filled with people willing to grind for everyone else. All for a small amount of platinum and a spare rhino chassis

 

What do you mean "So"? 

So this is how we evolve the gameplay, by implemneting something that was already apart of Warframe in closed beta? Sans stance mods(Which I have yet to see any distinguishing improvement from just from experience with the single one I have) all you can do is default melee moves so what good is it rubbing it in people's faces that you cn use combo systems to kill anything?  I'd appreciate the parrying more if it hadn't been removed from default equip mode and can now only be used in the crappy melee mode which is no better than default mode without stance mods, or depending on the specific stance, still not an improvement even when it is implemented.

 

And not only did they remove charge animations, thus depleting the default melee move list, they replace them with channeling, which is just another parasite on your energy pool. How is that even an improvement?  And I only have one stance mod myself but it all relies on tapping E repetedly in time delay sequence and with no distinguishing results. Garbage.

They couldn't be bothered to even implement other command keys into the mix, like the "R" key, which is just sitting useless in melee equip mode, it could have been utilized as another attack command, but no. They don't even seem to have the grey matter to bother throwing in forward and backward motions for combos like even the most simplistic of combat textual games such as Smash Brothers to produce some more varied moves and subsequently, combos. Couldn't even be bothered to add the parry command into combo moves. Talk about lost opportunities. Seriously, THIS is what the months of delays were for?

What a joke.

Edited April 11, 2014 by UrielColtan

[raikien]

I haven't actually gotten to try the stance mods I have what do they do beside combos? To be honest I kill most..things long before I have a chance to hit e twice pause then hit it again like four times.. I would love if they did something to mix up the basic and melee mod basic attacks too

Edited April 11, 2014 by raikien

[And_Now_I_Dance]

I haven't actually gotten to try the stance mods I have what do they do beside combos? To be honest I kill most..things long before I have a chance to hit e twice pause then hit it again like four times.. I would love if they did something to mix up the basic and melee mod basic attacks too

 

They just combo, for the most part.  New animations, and new attack chains.

 

The issue I have, and one that I think a lot of people share, is that this is something that didn't deserve to be behind a grind wall.  It's a fundamental improvement to the way the game is played, not a shiny new piece of gear.  Hiding fundamental game play enhancements behind a grind wall just feels counter intuitive, and I think it marks a dangerous precedent.

[DMan]

We're at 256 upvotes already, DON'T LET THIS THREAD DIE due to moving "to the proper section"

Let's make this into another "dark sectors" thread.

Keep on fighting

[Corodix]

The Grind is why I quit five months ago, the direction the game was going in (since void keys really, it's only gotten worse after that) has slowly but steadily drained the fun out of it for me. I got the feeling they were relying on grind too much in order to keep their players playing, which already made me wonder back then if they don't believe their game is fun enough in itself to keep people playing. Path of Exile suffers from the same thing, an insane grind/rng system which really puts a damper on the quite enjoyable gameplay.

 

I was hoping melee 2.0 would make it more interesting, but with such a grind I think I'll just pass and maybe check back in after the summer.

[SilentCynic]

It's simple. It's what they've always done. If the Steam charts are any indication (And yes, there are many players who do not use Steam, but that's not the focus), lots of people mainly come back for the big updates, farm a while till they get the shinies, then stop playing again.

 

Ergo, to extend the amount of time people play, which potentially increases the amount of people dropping cash on the game, you use grind to artificially lengthen the perceived gameplay.

 

Do I think it's good for the players? F*** no. But enough people seem to disagree with me to keep this boat afloat.

[Kaidinah]

Well put. I hope this thread gets an answer.

[Ardorax]

I hope DE reads this and realizes something .... and I hope it happens before the really bad things happen ... such as them losing such a customer base they need support from another company that will force them to implement other features that make it even worce.

 

Realize its bloody damn possible that DE effectively kills it client base ... all by itself none the less.

But the ball is in their court now, the next few updates will decide the course of warframe ... will they sail their ship into the depths of the mealstorm ... or be wise and turn from it to calmer shores?

 

(yes that was a whole ship reference cause thats the them in U13 =P)

[Zookes]

I hope DE reads this and realizes something .... and I hope it happens before the really bad things happen ... such as them losing such a customer base they need support from another company that will force them to implement other features that make it even worce.

 

Realize its bloody damn possible that DE effectively kills it client base ... all by itself none the less.

But the ball is in their court now, the next few updates will decide the course of warframe ... will they sail their ship into the depths of the mealstorm ... or be wise and turn from it to calmer shores?

 

(yes that was a whole ship reference cause thats the them in U13 =P)

 

The irony is that DE made another (star) ship-based game previously, and it sank at port with no attempt at salvage. Don't be surprised if your hopes don't pan out.

 

Sorry for the venom, but I couldn't resist. I had second thoughts about uninstalling, found a few rather critical reviews on DE's previous works, and then found this thread. There's such a bleak future for this game, and I'm sorry for anyone who put money into it. I know I'm sorry I did.

[psyanide]

DE does not realize that there is a grind because the devs do not know what a real world account works like - because they do not use normal accounts, everyone there seems to use dev console magic.

 

Every example account you see them use has some REDONKULOUS resource counts associated with it. Just look at some of the recent ones - like the Dark Sectors tutorial video on the teaser site - over 1 000 000 Forma, ffs.

 

Scott was 'showcasing' Melee 2.0 and he couldn't last 2 minutes solo against the Grineer without cheating for endless health. How the hell can you think that is OK, dude? I would like to believe that you play legitimately at different loadout levels (with your special mouse...) when considering game balance, but considering the state of most WarFrame abilities, weapons, enemies, and also the way you flailed around like a lost puppy in a meat grinder for 5 minutes, I do not.

 

The top devs at DE do not know where the player-base is coming from because they work from a point of reference FAR removed from what the ACTUAL game plays like! Scott and Sheldon failing hard at Solo (even with maxxed builds, in one or two cases) is not unassailable proof of this, but it IS pretty damned convincing to me.

 

They do not understand grind because they do not go through it themselves, and until they can dedicate 50-70 hours to a new (unboosted by the magical dev console) account, they never will. 

 

The top brass at DE are seriously screwing up the efforts of the artists and animators, man. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING that the art and animation dept. produces is pure gold. The BROKEN drop tables, the grind for essentials, the convoluted methods to get items, the imbalances that everyone and their dog is hating? That's all on Scott, Steve and Sheldon, if I am not terribly mistaken.

Edited April 11, 2014 by psyanide

[SilentCynic]

The top brass at DE are seriously screwing up the efforts of the artists and animators, man. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING that the art and animation dept. produces is pure gold. The BROKEN drop tables, the grind for essentials, the convoluted methods to get items, the imbalances that everyone and their dog is hating? That's all on Scott, Steve and Sheldon, if I am not terribly mistaken.

 

I can speak for myself and all my gaming friends who've played Warframe when I say that the main thing that brings us back to the game is the art and animation. Everything else just bogs down the experience.