Volt Vs Nova

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Greetings, fellow Tenno. I've been playing Volt for awhile now, but something has been bugging me and it is this - Volt needs a significant buff.

 

Consulting the Codex, it says that he's supposed to be a potent (very strong) alternative to gunplay and a high damage warframe.. Considering his low armor and abilities, it seems the warframe is meant for a more offensive role. After looking the Codex over, she's described as harnessing electromagnetic power, but she has 65 armor, the same Ash, but she's faster.

It does not quite make sense to me giving her so much speed, but leaving Volt at the same speed of Excalibur.

 

After making identical builds between Nova and Volt on warframe-builder.com, we can see the flagrant discrepancies between the two:

 

Nova: http://goo.gl/86FtzS

Volt: http://goo.gl/YTol7h

 

Comparing the running speeds and ultimate powers of the two (click on the "Report button"), we see a very, very sharp differentiation: Nova's Molecular Prime does a damage of 1832, while Volt's does 515.3. She also does a +200% radiation damage to enemies, so it seems she actually does 3664 damage, while Volt does 515.3.

This does not look quite well for Volt.

 

A list of more of the discrepancies as follows (everything is maxed out):

-She outruns him at 1.56, while he runs at 1.3

-Maxing out steel fibre gives her 137 armor, while Volt gets 32 - not very useful.

-Her power pool is at 450, while his is 300.

-Nova's MolPrime has a radius of 36.3m, while Volt has 29.0.

 

To maintain the whole "feel" of Volt, I would suggest his speed be significantly increased to be faster than Nova (right behind Loki) or at least the same. The speed boost ability can be capped to a certain speed in general, dependent upon the view of the devs and community, or it can be capped for the player who turns on the boost specifically, while everyone else's speed is increased as normal.

Please consider a rebalancing of Volt.

Edited April 11, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[RespectTheInternet]

Volt's been needing a re do for a Long time... your post is neither the first nor the last :(. I just use him for speed runs

[Axterix13]

On the run speed thing: Volt has Speed.  Though being a bit faster wouldn't hurt, as it sucks when you get power drained.  Mine runs at 1.835 without Rush, which a Volt doesn't need.  The one you slapped together would run at 2.2 with the Storm helm.  Though that build would be greatly improved with less ranks of Blind Rage and more stacking of Efficiency.

 

On the armor front, keep in mind that Volt has a much higher shield capacity.

 

On the ultimates, don't know where you're getting that damage from for Overload, but it is wrong.  Base Overload does 1 small radius pulse of 225 (that really could stand to have the same radius as everything else).  It then does 3 more pulses of 225 with a 20m radius.  Each pulse hit will proc a small AoE, doing an additional 50% damage.  So base damage for mobs close enough is 1350, while for those that miss the initial pulse is 1012.5.  Overall not the best, but also not the worst.  With 139% increase (Storm Helm), Volt will do 2420 for those that miss the initial pulse, and 3227 to those that don't.  If there's an electrical device in the area that hasn't been abused yet, it will do a further 250 base per device, which I believe can also proc.  M-Prime's base is 800, of course, and that will most likely be doubled, but then, M-Prime is overpowered, just doing way too much to too large of an area.  Asking anything to match that is just silly.  Crazier still though, if you think M-Prime is bad, it is nothing compared to what a good Nova can do with AMD.  Of course, you're also focusing on the ultimates, when a lot of Volt's offensive power comes from Shock.

 

Still, comparing Volt to a single frame isn't a very good way to ask for improvements.  Especially when the frame you are comparing to has a couple of powers that really should be toned down.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Axterix13

[EdBazokatone]

A list of more of the discrepancies as follows:

-She outruns him at 1.56, while he runs at 1.3

-Her armor is at 65, while his is 15. Maxing out steel fibre gives her 137 armor, while Volt gets 32 - not very useful.

-Her power pool is at 450, while his is 300.

-Nova's MolPrime has a radius of 36.3m, while Volt has 29.0.

-Which doesn't matter since Volt only have to press 2 and Nova will eat the dust.

-Neither values are good enough to save you when you need that extra survivability (high levels).

-Both Nova and Volt are strong candidates for Fleeting Expertise, in which case, you will never need more than 200 energy to spam.

-Both ranges are good enough to do the job.

 

I'll add some more:

-Shields: Volt is 450. Nova is 225 (half). With mods Volt can have up to 1110, while Nova will get 645. That is survivability, not their armor values.

-Skills: Volt uses his full set of skill. Nova doesn't, and I'm not saying she only spams 4, but her 2 and 3 are situational, at best.

-Survivability (even more): Volt has Speed, which allows him to negate attacks from an entire faction (infested) or to run if under heavy fire. Nova can do this with Worm Hole, but it's not as energy efficient, asuming it's even equipped. Volt has Shield, which stops enemy fire, period.

-CC: Nova has a really strong movement debuff. Volt perma stuns enemies.

 

All this is in theory... in the practice? the truth is that they are so different that comparing them doesn't make much sense.

[Rekkou]

After making identical builds between Nova and Volt on warframe-builder.com, we can see the flagrant discrepancies between the two:

 

And that's your problem. You're judging a Warframe based on the same build while some warframe shines when used with different built.

 

Volt has the lowest energy cost/duration of any warframe. With sufficient power efficiency and duration, this allow him to use Speed and Electric Shield infinitely (If you deploy E shield one by one, you will regen the energy you used before the shield ended).

 

This is my current Volt Build with pulse helmet. You need 3 forma for this, but i used glitch so i only need 2 forma. 

http://goo.gl/Xijg0C

[RealPandemonium]

Volt is fine, Nova is overpowered.  This is nothing new, and frame balance should not and will not use Nova as a benchmark. 

[Ohmlink]

Only complaint I'd have with Volt's ult is the lack of consistency in damage. Sometimes it does its normal damage as described above, or it lays waste to the entire room/stuns enemies for like 30 seconds. The latter can only occur once though, unlike every other ult in the game. I'd love to see it somewhere in the middle.

 

Another issue, Volt sucks against armor which is the only resistance that tends to matter.

[Revel72]

Thou Volt has been for a long time seriously under powered since the closed beta.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

More or less the consensus on Volt is as follows...

 

Stats: increase run speed to 1.1

Electric Shield: by default, it will float in front of Volt.  Casting it again will cause it to deploy at its current location for no energy cost.

 

Volt's not a caster, contrary to his description.  He's an all-rounder and a pretty good one at that.  Just fixing the weird static-fast dichotomy with Shield should suffice.  He can tank a lot more damage than Nova and can put up the only invincible shield in the game.

 

Volt's been my main for the past year ever since I got him as my starter.  For the longest time, I campaigned for him to be more of a caster, but in the end, the only change I managed to get for him was the melee rate boost on Speed which was in response to a mechanic with Infested that was eliminated shortly afterwards.  Ultimately, I came to realize that Volt wasn't what his description claimed and that's alright.  He's still a caster.  I don't use my 1 more on any other frame, actually.  Shock is a really solid ability.  He has responses for every situation and can do well in all of them.  Does he excel in any particular one?  Not really.  But he can still nuke anything that's in the main part of the game with impunity, has a great cheap crowd CC, has the only invincible shield in the game, and has a good team steroid.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Prodromata]

Crazier still though, if you think M-Prime is bad, it is nothing compared to what a good Nova can do with AMD.

 

Still, comparing Volt to a single frame isn't a very good way to ask for improvements.  Especially when the frame you are comparing to has a couple of powers that really should be toned down.

This is very funny. Volt and Nova make a great team. I'm one of the Nova players that won't touch Molecular Prime. Mostly for the moments when the other players realize nothing even has a chance to spawn in survival because I'm warping everywhere guided by the Eye of Sauron and packing The Redeemer. Volt can stun lock maps so I never even get hit.

Next round we pick different frames and he plays a damage dealing role and I play support.

If you expect every frame on the team and every frame in this game to be a damage dealer, you should go play Halo or Call of Duty. OR, you can understand that this is Warframe. Each frame has a role. Not every frame will be doing the same thing. Otherwise, this would be Counter Strike. This is why Nova will never be nerfed the way people hope she will be. She is the magnifying glass children focus onto anthills. Volt is unique. He has the best of every world: abilities and stats. He has offense, defense/mod/buff, team/self buff abilities and very high shields for a caster. Volt is simply amazing. No doubt about it. Electric Shield is your best ability, hands down. Staying alive comes first...and other things.

[LascarCapable]

This is very funny. Volt and Nova make a great team.

 

Volt makes a great team with quite everybody, Just sayin'.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Einde

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

On the run speed thing: Volt has Speed.  Though being a bit faster wouldn't hurt, as it sucks when you get power drained.  Mine runs at 1.835 without Rush, which a Volt doesn't need.  The one you slapped together would run at 2.2 with the Storm helm.  Though that build would be greatly improved with less ranks of Blind Rage and more stacking of Efficiency.

 

On the armor front, keep in mind that Volt has a much higher shield capacity.

 

On the ultimates, don't know where you're getting that damage from for Overload, but it is wrong.  Base Overload does 1 small radius pulse of 225 (that really could stand to have the same radius as everything else).  It then does 3 more pulses of 225 with a 20m radius.  Each pulse hit will proc a small AoE, doing an additional 50% damage.  So base damage for mobs close enough is 1350, while for those that miss the initial pulse is 1012.5.  Overall not the best, but also not the worst.  With 139% increase (Storm Helm), Volt will do 2420 for those that miss the initial pulse, and 3227 to those that don't.  If there's an electrical device in the area that hasn't been abused yet, it will do a further 250 base per device, which I believe can also proc.  M-Prime's base is 800, of course, and that will most likely be doubled, but then, M-Prime is overpowered, just doing way too much to too large of an area.  Asking anything to match that is just silly.  Crazier still though, if you think M-Prime is bad, it is nothing compared to what a good Nova can do with AMD.  Of course, you're also focusing on the ultimates, when a lot of Volt's offensive power comes from Shock.

 

Still, comparing Volt to a single frame isn't a very good way to ask for improvements.  Especially when the frame you are comparing to has a couple of powers that really should be toned down.

 

Click on the link I made for Volt, then click "Report" to get the numbers I got.

My train of thought is, I was thinking myself that Nova should be toned down, but I was leaving this up for the community to discuss - boost Volt or tone down Nova? Or both? If so, by what amount?

I purposely matched Volt against Nova to make a point - according to the Codex, Volt, "...is a high-damage warframe perfect for players looking for a potent alternative to gunplay." The description from Nova says no such thing about her, therefore why is her damage way higher than his? Tone her damage down or increase his or both? I'm throwing that out there for you guys to discuss.

 

Volt's ultimate is supposed to be overload, not shock. We're comparing ultimates here, the maximum attack power of them. So, would it be better to compare his first power to Nova's ultimate? I'm not being sarcastic or any silliness like that, that's just what I'm getting from you.

The pages I linked together compare their powers similarly and I gave them similar setups.

 

"On the armor front, keep in mind that Volt has a much higher shield capacity."

Yes, but once that shield is shredded in the high-level missions, you're in for a rough ride. Simply relying on shields is asking for trouble. For nightmare missions, when the shield is taken away, then what? The armor you need will not be there for you.

 

"Mine runs at 1.835 without Rush, which a Volt doesn't need.  The one you slapped together would run at 2.2 with the Storm helm."

About runspeed, I've already covered that in my post, Also, this is left up to the player to decide whether to put speed boost on or not, and whether to max out the rank or leave it as is.

Using the speed ability is assuming you always have energy to use it - that's not a good mindset and another recipe for disaster.

 

"M-Prime's base is 800, of course, and that will most likely be doubled, but then, M-Prime is overpowered, just doing way too much to too large of an area. Asking anything to match that is just silly.  Crazier still though, if you think M-Prime is bad, it is nothing compared to what a good Nova can do with AMD."

I don't know what AMD means, but as I said before, I was leaving that to the forums to discuss - should nova be nerfed and/or Volt be buffed? If so, by how much?

 

Out of curiosity, I ask you, where are you getting the measurements for Overload's damage?

Edited April 11, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

More or less the consensus on Volt is as follows...

 

Stats: increase run speed to 1.1

Electric Shield: by default, it will float in front of Volt.  Casting it again will cause it to deploy at its current location for no energy cost.

 

Volt's not a caster, contrary to his description.  He's an all-rounder and a pretty good one at that.  Just fixing the weird static-fast dichotomy with Shield should suffice.  He can tank a lot more damage than Nova and can put up the only invincible shield in the game.

 

Volt's been my main for the past year ever since I got him as my starter.  For the longest time, I campaigned for him to be more of a caster, but in the end, the only change I managed to get for him was the melee rate boost on Speed which was in response to a mechanic with Infested that was eliminated shortly afterwards.  Ultimately, I came to realize that Volt wasn't what his description claimed and that's alright.  He's still a caster.  I don't use my 1 more on any other frame, actually.  Shock is a really solid ability.  He has responses for every situation and can do well in all of them.  Does he excel in any particular one?  Not really.  But he can still nuke anything that's in the main part of the game with impunity, has a great cheap crowd CC, has the only invincible shield in the game, and has a good team steroid.

 

This is what I was saying in a nutshell - to match his description, he would need to be buffed or his description altered. As an avid Volt user, it's interesting to hear from others who have played him for a long time.

I was kind of surprised also after using him so often - I use him for the exact same purposes as you do. Perhaps it would be better to use shock than overload?

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

This is very funny. Volt and Nova make a great team. I'm one of the Nova players that won't touch Molecular Prime. Mostly for the moments when the other players realize nothing even has a chance to spawn in survival because I'm warping everywhere guided by the Eye of Sauron and packing The Redeemer. Volt can stun lock maps so I never even get hit.

Next round we pick different frames and he plays a damage dealing role and I play support.

If you expect every frame on the team and every frame in this game to be a damage dealer, you should go play Halo or Call of Duty.... Each frame has a role. Not every frame will be doing the same thing. Otherwise, this would be Counter Strike. This is why Nova will never be nerfed the way people hope she will be. She is the magnifying glass children focus onto anthills. Volt is unique. He has the best of every world: abilities and stats. He has offense, defense/mod/buff, team/self buff abilities and very high shields for a caster. Volt is simply amazing. No doubt about it. Electric Shield is your best ability, hands down. Staying alive comes first...and other things.

I know that this is Warframe and there are different roles for the 'frames - I've already read their descriptions and seen them in action. As I said to someone else, my main concern is about his description not matching his actual usage, while Nova is a more appropriate match to that (in her current state). I see what people are saying about Nova, though, and hopefully this will spur some conversation towards buffing Volt to a higher degree that the community sees as acceptable.

About electric shield, I use that all the time. A testament to his versatility is to how I can use him - attack role, support role, defensive role, healing role (throwing down medpacks when I have them for others to use and reviving fallen comrades), team buffer - the whole 9 yards.

[Rekkou]

I still don't get the way you think. Everything that is a plus needs minus for balancing, but all you want is plus and more plus.

 

Volt has high shield as plus and low armor to balanced it. And as extra he has electric shield for defense. But you still want both high shield and high armor.

Volt has average sprint that can be temporarily buffed with Speed. But you still want a permanent faster sprint.

 

Every warframe has strength and weakness. But instead of working around it, you're just doing what you want and demand buff to cover the weakness.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Not the correct way to view it, nor did I say anything about having high armor. 15 armor is pretty much nonexistent on higher level missions, so 65 is a better level. Heck, I suggested in another thread that 65 be the lightest armor for any Warframe.

Reread what I wrote - for nightmare missions, when you don't have a shield to protect you, you have to rely on your armor. Perhaps Volt is not meant to be taken on nightmare missions? I'm not saying whether he should be or not, it's a point for consideration.

I suggest you look at others' views concerning his speed buff - they also have suggested speed be increased to 1.15. My personal preference is that he be right behind Loki in footspeed, but I've left that up to the community to discuss.

 

"Volt has speed to boost his run."

"He has electric shield"

Again, the assumption keeps being made that you have energy to use whatever ability you need at all times - that is definitely not a good idea, and at this point, you cannot move the shield - it's stuck in one place, though others have suggested that his shield be able to be picked up and moved.

 

In a nutshell, I'll quote what someone earlier in this thread about him - "Volt is underpowered" [sic] and I've suggested a buff to him, but have asked you guys about this to see what the community thought and to hopefully get a good, productive discussion about him.

Edited April 11, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Axterix13]

Click on the link I made for Volt, then click "Report" to get the numbers I got.

My train of thought is, I was thinking myself that Nova should be toned down, but I was leaving this up for the community to discuss - boost Volt or tone down Nova? Or both? If so, by what amount?

I purposely matched Volt against Nova to make a point - according to the Codex, Volt, "...is a high-damage warframe perfect for players looking for a potent alternative to gunplay." The description from Nova says no such thing about her, therefore why is her damage way higher than his? Tone her damage down or increase his or both? I'm throwing that out there for you guys to discuss.

For those numbers, notice that they do say it is per second, so that would explain where you went wrong with the ~500.  Beyond that, it looks like it doesn't include the 100% chance electrical proc either, and that proc hits the mob it comes from.  People tend to overlook the electrical proc in general though.

 

Volt's description could stand to be updated.  He's really more of a "high damage/utility warframe perfect for players looking to use powers to compliment gunplay".  Though there's a lot of cases where I can kill most things with a Shock or two.  With a build like mine (67% power, 75% efficiency), Shock is dirt cheap and deals decent enough damage to non-heavies (and non-alloy armor, but that goes without saying).

 

Volt's ultimate is supposed to be overload, not shock. We're comparing ultimates here, the maximum attack power of them. So, would it be better to compare his first power to Nova's ultimate? I'm not being sarcastic or any silliness like that, that's just what I'm getting from you.

The pages I linked together compare their powers similarly and I gave them similar setups.

You're not comparing ultimates though.  You're comparing frames, which have more than one power.  Offensively speaking, your typical Nova will use mostly M-Prime or AMD (typically one or the other, rarely both).  Though their #1 isn't bad-bad.  They just don't bother with it, as it doesn't do squat in situations where AMD is the way to go, and isn't needed if you're spamming M-Prime.  A Volt will use Shock, shooting through the shield, and/or Overload.

 

 

Yes, but once that shield is shredded in the high-level missions, you're in for a rough ride. Simply relying on shields is asking for trouble. For nightmare missions, when the shield is taken away, then what? The armor you need will not be there for you.

Generally speaking, you're better off relying on shields than health.  Healing isn't abundant in this game, and so unless you're playing as a certain frame (which we're obviously not here) or with one of them, you're much better off with Volt's higher shield total.  To put it in perspective, the armor on a Nova essentially gives him 21.7% more hp (except against Bleeds, which ignore armor).  With Steel Fiber, about 41% more.  Volt though has 2x the shields of Nova, meaning it will take more damage to kill the Volt with his base armor than it will to kill a Nova with Steel Fiber boosting his, provided they are using Redirection, of course.  And not only that, if the damage isn't all taken in one chunk, the Volt is better off, because shields are much, much easier to restore to full than health.  Do 100 damage more than Nova's shields 10x with time to recharge shields in between, and Nova is dead, while Volt is sitting at full health.

 

As to Nightmare no shield missions, both are super squishy, so it really doesn't matter.  If you're not Valkyr, Rhino, Trinity, or Saryn, you go splat easy if the mobs get some hits in.  But that's all part of why I have repeatedly, and no doubt will more in the future, said that no shield mode should go for a high damage mode, as that would achieve the same goal (play smart or die) without invalidating a key part of the design (shields).

 

Nova is more fragile than Volt.  Which is part of why Nova should do more damage than Volt (even if I do believe Nova does need her powers reigned in a tad).

 

 

About runspeed, I've already covered that in my post, Also, this is left up to the player to decide whether to put speed boost on or not, and whether to max out the rank or leave it as is.

Using the speed ability is assuming you always have energy to use it - that's not a good mindset and another recipe for disaster.

Nope, you don't always have the energy (and that's part of why your hypothetical high power strength build is bad).  For that matter, you don't always have Rush slotted either.  Ultimately though, if the run speed matters to you, you have an option.  You can't close your eyes and plug your ears and pretend it doesn't exist.  It does.  And it makes Volt go zoom-zoom.  If you choose not slot it, that is your choice.

 

Mind you, I wouldn't object to seeing Volt's speed increased to 1.1.  I feel so slow when Speed isn't active.  Of course, I tend to feel slow when another Volt's speed is active as well, as most have less power strength than me ;)  But I think Volt's base speed of 1 is a deliberate design choice by the designers because he has Speed.  They don't want to create a situation where he can easily leave other frames in the dust, because once he gets ahead far enough that the others are out of his range, they'll have a hard time catching up.  And no, putting a deliberate speed cap on Speed (or rather, a frame's speed in general) would not be a good idea.  That would remove incentive for Volts to care about Power Strength, which they should.

 

 

I don't know what AMD means, but as I said before, I was leaving that to the forums to discuss - should nova be nerfed and/or Volt be buffed? If so, by how much?

 

Out of curiosity, I ask you, where are you getting the measurements for Overload's damage?

 

AMD is AntiMatter Drop.  Nova's 2nd ability.  It creates a ball of anti-matter that absorbs damage and then goes boom.  The more damage it absorbs, the bigger the boom.  A good Nova can get AMD to soak the damage from the previous AMD, resulting in bigger and bigger booms.  When people do crazy long endless mode runs, as in the ones that go for hours and hours, AMD and/or Nyx's Absord tend to be what make it possible, offensively speaking.  You typically won't see it used much, as it requires more skill to use, different situations than your typical mission, and isn't a mindless base 25m radius ability like M-Prime.

 

As to "should Nova be nerfed and/or Volt be buffed", not what your thread is.  Your thread is about, and I quote, "Volt needs a significant buff."

 

The info on Overload comes from the Wiki and matches what I see in-game against mobs without armor that are not resistant to electricity, like most Infested.  Though obviously my own numbers are 67% higher than the base amounts.

 

 

This is very funny. Volt and Nova make a great team. I'm one of the Nova players that won't touch Molecular Prime. Mostly for the moments when the other players realize nothing even has a chance to spawn in survival because I'm warping everywhere guided by the Eye of Sauron and packing The Redeemer. Volt can stun lock maps so I never even get hit.

That they do.  Shock in particular goes great with M-Prime.  The double damage means a single shock will kill a lot of non-heavies, while Shock hopping around will cause it set off multiple mobs, often in areas quite a distance apart.  Great synergy between those two powers.

 

And, of course, the stun factor is always handy as well.

 

This is why Nova will never be nerfed the way people hope she will be.

I don't expect Nova will be nerfed that way either.  I know I don't want to see her nerfed the way most people suggest.  That said, M-Prime's radius is nuts and will probably be reduced at some point.  And I expect the slow will wind up reduced as well, at least on the movement side.  And the duration will probably be lowered.  None of these things will make the power worthless.  It'll still be great, doing nice damage and providing valuable debuffs.  But it will reduce some of the things that annoy people about it, while bringing its overall power more in line with others.

 

AMD, well, it is one of those things, like Trinity's Blessing, that will get changed.  The reason why is because it'll paint DE into a design corner otherwise.  If they want to make tough content (like a big, nasty, very high hp boss), then they'll have to do something specifically to counter that power.  And they'll have to do that every time they make such content.  So it will most likely at some point get a damage cap.  Don't think it will happen any time soon.  But when they get around to making "end-game" content, except some changes.  That or the content itself will make the power pointless.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Axterix13

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

For those numbers, notice that they do say it is per second, so that would explain where you went wrong with the ~500.  Beyond that, it looks like it doesn't include the 100% chance electrical proc either, and that proc hits the mob it comes from.  People tend to overlook the electrical proc in general though.

 

Volt's description could stand to be updated.  He's really more of a "high damage/utility warframe perfect for players looking to use powers to compliment gunplay".  Though there's a lot of cases where I can kill most things with a Shock or two.  With a build like mine (67% power, 75% efficiency), Shock is dirt cheap and deals decent enough damage to non-heavies (and non-alloy armor, but that goes without saying).

 

You're not comparing ultimates though.  You're comparing frames, which have more than one power.  Offensively speaking, your typical Nova will use mostly M-Prime or AMD (typically one or the other, rarely both).  Though their #1 isn't bad-bad.  They just don't bother with it, as it doesn't do squat in situations where AMD is the way to go, and isn't needed if you're spamming M-Prime.  A Volt will use Shock, shooting through the shield, and/or Overload.

 

 

Generally speaking, you're better off relying on shields than health.  Healing isn't abundant in this game, and so unless you're playing as a certain frame (which we're obviously not here) or with one of them, you're much better off with Volt's higher shield total.  To put it in perspective, the armor on a Nova essentially gives him 21.7% more hp (except against Bleeds, which ignore armor).  With Steel Fiber, about 41% more.  Volt though has 2x the shields of Nova, meaning it will take more damage to kill the Volt with his base armor than it will to kill a Nova with Steel Fiber boosting his, provided they are using Redirection, of course.  And not only that, if the damage isn't all taken in one chunk, the Volt is better off, because shields are much, much easier to restore to full than health.  Do 100 damage more than Nova's shields 10x with time to recharge shields in between, and Nova is dead, while Volt is sitting at full health.

 

As to Nightmare no shield missions, both are super squishy, so it really doesn't matter.  If you're not Valkyr, Rhino, Trinity, or Saryn, you go splat easy if the mobs get some hits in.  But that's all part of why I have repeatedly, and no doubt will more in the future, said that no shield mode should go for a high damage mode, as that would achieve the same goal (play smart or die) without invalidating a key part of the design (shields).

 

Nova is more fragile than Volt.  Which is part of why Nova should do more damage than Volt (even if I do believe Nova does need her powers reigned in a tad).

 

 

Nope, you don't always have the energy (and that's part of why your hypothetical high power strength build is bad).  For that matter, you don't always have Rush slotted either.  Ultimately though, if the run speed matters to you, you have an option.  You can't close your eyes and plug your ears and pretend it doesn't exist.  It does.  And it makes Volt go zoom-zoom.  If you choose not slot it, that is your choice.

 

Mind you, I wouldn't object to seeing Volt's speed increased to 1.1.  I feel so slow when Speed isn't active.  Of course, I tend to feel slow when another Volt's speed is active as well, as most have less power strength than me ;)  But I think Volt's base speed of 1 is a deliberate design choice by the designers because he has Speed.  They don't want to create a situation where he can easily leave other frames in the dust, because once he gets ahead far enough that the others are out of his range, they'll have a hard time catching up.  And no, putting a deliberate speed cap on Speed (or rather, a frame's speed in general) would not be a good idea.  That would remove incentive for Volts to care about Power Strength, which they should.

 

I suppose at first, I was meaning to compare ultimates, but that led to a general frame comparison, so I'll amend that remark and leave it as ability/frame comparison.

About the speed capping, I just threw that out there as some type of alternative in an effort to address those who say increasing his speed would make him too fast, yet not negating the increase to his other abilities' damage. Any other ideas would be welcome or we can leave it as is. I do not agree that would remove the incentive for Volts to care about their power strength, seeing as how shock and overload are affected by it, though.

 

Considering his runspeed again, I always equip the rush mod, but you cannot decide how quickly your energy restores to give you that rush boost or not. This is another reason for upping his runspeed to higher than it is right now. It seems most folks like his speed at 1.1-1.15, the same as Ash. As the players wish...

But about that shock/shield combo, that's something for reconsideration...interesting. I never knew about that combo. But, it seems you have more experience with this warframe than I do. The calculations you've put out there are interesting and I still have more to learn about this game, it seems. It's always good to learn whenever you can.

We both agree about his description, and that's what all this is about in a nutshell - his description not seeming to match his actual stats.

Interesting, though Axterix. I'll reread this post again later and see what else I can glean from it. I'll send you a link to my build in a private message.

[Edgedemon]

Volt is good Nova is wrecked but that aside and even knowing it wont give him anything. makes no sense a multipurpose like Volt has less Armor than Glass Cannon which should be the only ever frame with 15 armor.

[Rekkou]

Not the correct way to view it, nor did I say anything about having high armor. 15 armor is pretty much nonexistent on higher level missions, so 65 is a better level. Heck, I suggested in another thread that 65 be the lightest armor for any Warframe.

Reread what I wrote - for nightmare missions, when you don't have a shield to protect you, you have to rely on your armor. Perhaps Volt is not meant to be taken on nightmare missions? I'm not saying whether he should be or not, it's a point for consideration.

I suggest you look at others' views concerning his speed buff - they also have suggested speed be increased to 1.15. My personal preference is that he be right behind Loki in footspeed, but I've left that up to the community to discuss.

 

"Volt has speed to boost his run."

"He has electric shield"

Again, the assumption keeps being made that you have energy to use whatever ability you need at all times - that is definitely not a good idea, and at this point, you cannot move the shield - it's stuck in one place, though others have suggested that his shield be able to be picked up and moved.

 

I really fail to see you your mind works.

 

Every warframe has strength and weakness that can be worked around. If Volt has high shield, but low armor then you can balanced it by using vitality to boost his health. maxed Vitality will give Volt 740 health which is more than double of his regular health. If you're in nightmare mode and afraid of no shield challenge you can switch redirection with Vigor for extra health.

 

In this build you don't even try to use Vitality at all.

Volt: http://goo.gl/YTol7h

 

Abilities are gameplay gimmick that are meant to assist you only at certain times to make the game more dynamic. Volt has average speed that can be boosted beyond other high speed warframe by using ability. If Volt already has higher speed then he won't has Speed as his ability. Same like Loki, Ash, Nova and other warframe with high sprint speed didn't have speed buff at all.

 

Again, don't force a warframe to fit your ideal. Analyze each of their strength, weakness and build them individually.

[RealPandemonium]

I really fail to see you your mind works.

 

Every warframe has strength and weakness that can be worked around. If Volt has high shield, but low armor then you can balanced it by using vitality to boost his health. maxed Vitality will give Volt 740 health which is more than double of his regular health. If you're in nightmare mode and afraid of no shield challenge you can switch redirection with Vigor for extra health.

 

In this build you don't even try to use Vitality at all.

Volt: http://goo.gl/YTol7h

 

Abilities are gameplay gimmick that are meant to assist you only at certain times to make the game more dynamic. Volt has average speed that can be boosted beyond other high speed warframe by using ability. If Volt already has higher speed then he won't has Speed as his ability. Same like Loki, Ash, Nova and other warframe with high sprint speed didn't have speed buff at all.

 

Again, don't force a warframe to fit your ideal. Analyze each of their strength, weakness and build them individually.

While I think Volt is good as-is (every frame could always use some polish but Volt is pretty robust minus his ability damage vs Grineer armor at high levels) you are mistaken about armor.  Because armor multiplies health you should avoid increasing health on Volt since his armor is so low and instead maximize your shields.  Perhaps even consider a shield regeneration mod if you think you have a slot worthy of it (Guardian is also your biggest asset when relying on shield for defense.)

[Rekkou]

While I think Volt is good as-is (every frame could always use some polish but Volt is pretty robust minus his ability damage vs Grineer armor at high levels) you are mistaken about armor.  Because armor multiplies health you should avoid increasing health on Volt since his armor is so low and instead maximize your shields.  Perhaps even consider a shield regeneration mod if you think you have a slot worthy of it (Guardian is also your biggest asset when relying on shield for defense.)

 

Huh? Armor didn't multiply health, it simple gives damage reduction that increase the damage you can take before you die. Increasing health still greatly increase that amount disregard the armor you have. And Volt's armor only give so small damage reduction, his health is practically a shield that can't regenerate. Relying only on shield is worse decision because there's always a cryo malfunction and bleed procs that can easily kill you if you have low health. Under heavy fire, with only Redirection, you can only take 1300 damage before you die. With Redirection and Vitality, you can take 1700 damage before you die.

[Axterix13]

Huh? Armor didn't multiply health, it simple gives damage reduction that increase the damage you can take before you die. Increasing health still greatly increase that amount disregard the armor you have. And Volt's armor only give so small damage reduction, his health is practically a shield that can't regenerate. Relying only on shield is worse decision because there's always a cryo malfunction and bleed procs that can easily kill you if you have low health. Under heavy fire, with only Redirection, you can only take 1300 damage before you die. With Redirection and Vitality, you can take 1700 damage before you die.

I believe what he means with that is that Armor serves primarily to boost effective health, and that it does so in a linear fashion.  Each point of armor is essentially worth (max_hp/300) HP.  Of course, it isn't exactly the same.  Armor doesn't do squat against Bleed procs or toxic damage, so in those cases, it effectively adds 0.  But on the positive side, it amplifies the effect of healing.  If you're taking half the damage, then each point healed is two more points of damage you can take.

 

I think he took your thoughts to mean to use Vitality in place of Redirection though, when I'm guessing you probably meant more to use something that boosts health in addition to Redirection.

[Axterix13]

Considering his runspeed again, I always equip the rush mod, but you cannot decide how quickly your energy restores to give you that rush boost or not. This is another reason for upping his runspeed to higher than it is right now. It seems most folks like his speed at 1.1-1.15, the same as Ash. As the players wish...

But about that shock/shield combo, that's something for reconsideration...interesting. I never knew about that combo. But, it seems you have more experience with this warframe than I do. The calculations you've put out there are interesting and I still have more to learn about this game, it seems. It's always good to learn whenever you can.

We both agree about his description, and that's what all this is about in a nutshell - his description not seeming to match his actual stats.

Interesting, though Axterix. I'll reread this post again later and see what else I can glean from it. I'll send you a link to my build in a private message.

I never use the Rush mod, but mine, as I mentioned, is set up with 75% Efficiency, which pretty much guarantees the only time I can't use Speed is after getting zapped by some energy draining effect (pesky leaders hiding behind doors or Ancients sneaking up on me while I'm killing their buddies).

 

There's no shock+shield combo though, at least not that I'm aware of.  That was just a list of the three ways people use Volt for damage reasons.  Some people, like me, use Shock heavily, taking advantage of its AoE nature, its stuns, and its ability to tag enemies quite a distance apart to boost the damage.  Others like to set up a shield and shoot through it.  Both are styles of play with their own strengths of weakness.  One more run and gun, the other more methodical and defensive minded.  And then Overload, which is good if there's a lot of mobs.

 

Would be more than happy to look over your build.  And will probably send back my own versions as well (which are admittedly built to suit my rather go-go-go Volt playstyle).

[RealPandemonium]

Huh? Armor didn't multiply health, it simple gives damage reduction that increase the damage you can take before you die. Increasing health still greatly increase that amount disregard the armor you have. And Volt's armor only give so small damage reduction, his health is practically a shield that can't regenerate. Relying only on shield is worse decision because there's always a cryo malfunction and bleed procs that can easily kill you if you have low health. Under heavy fire, with only Redirection, you can only take 1300 damage before you die. With Redirection and Vitality, you can take 1700 damage before you die.

If you have enough slots to add any more HP than Vigor (with Redirection already equipped) then I wouldn't say no but it's way more effective to mod for shields on volt than HP.  I would even consider taking Fortitude instead of Vitality (after Redirection and Vigor are already equipped) so that you could recover more shield more quickly while you aren't taking damage and get a chance to avoid knockdown as well.  This would increase your ability to survive more than the additional HP which you would only be able to replenish inconsistently through HP orbs and also probably save you some Guardian cooldowns due to recovering more shields in between damage. Vigor gives you enough health to safeguard against Bleed and Toxin procs (and survive shield drain cases) while also giving more shield, while Vitality offers little more protection since Volt's armor value is low.  

Edited April 12, 2014 by RealPandemonium