Update 7.6: Hotfixes

[Xenogear]

Not sure if trolling or stupid.

Feed me more, this thread is great ^_-

[Xedders]

Should have left Power Max alone, level 28 frame now has 255 energy by default so you've effectively made the mod redundant.

That would be Ember with the phoenix helmet, or any other warframe that has a base of 150 and a helmet that gives power max, dont recall which right now, but you get me.

My Ash is level 30 and has no Power Max mod, yet has a maximum of 150 power.

[Aggh]

Feed me more, this thread is great ^_-

Ok. Just stupid.

[RicHSAD]

Sometime it is better (I prefer this) to increase top-end AI lethality than survivability.

You have to be careful about how you increase the difficulty of the game. Right now, the passive bonuses combined with the Redirection and Vitality mod can make some warframes almost impossible kill. If you just increase the leathality of the AI, you may make the game challenging for those warframes, but then the game may become too hard for those who don't have or don't want to use those mods.

What you want to do is significantly reduce the effectiveness of the Redirection/Vitality mods and then balance the lethality of the AI. You will never find the right balance between warframe survivability, AI lethality and player choice when you have mods that can more than double the survivability of a warframe.

[11.11.11]

Yup. Enemies need a survivability buff bigtime (along with making AP just useful rather than entirely essential). I would go so far as to say that this is my highest priority.

Players are hugely overpowered for PvE to resemble any sort of challenge when not soloing, even for a very average player.

Maybe on the inner systems. Try soloing the boss in Ceres. It's still hard.

[Windbow]

Firstly, thank you for the passives. That was one of the things we had with the old upgrade tree that was lost on update7. I do think (totally, imho) perhaps the mods might make things just a bit over the top. Just a tad. Perhaps a reduction of the vitality et al's bonus a bit? I'd hate for a return of the speedrunners in every mission problem. Of course, blacklisting would help in this case too. Aaaanyway, I for one, am looking forward to not having to use vitality et al and having more interesting mods. Also looking forward to those weapon passives. Sentinel passives, next? :P

Secondly, I'm really looking forward to better enemy AI without bullet sponges. Outflanking or 'combined arms'. Please, more stuff like the lancers and troopers advancing behind shielders. I enjoy seeing that quite a bit. Also behaviours. eg. Low level grineer should hide and shoot from cover more. Beefier ones should take more risks. Flanking the players and herding the players into corners (forcing us to wall run or jump over them and regroup elsewhere). Higher level maps should probably also have a bit more heavy things like moas, ancients and happy grineers. That might satisfy the elite types above us mere mortals. Also, make those really hard missions optional branches of each planet. Meaning, the dead end paths not required to progress in the game. But have suitable "prizes" for their efforts perhaps?

Thirdly, there's a solution to the Nervo problem, if I may humbly suggest. Make the stun-shocking effect intermittent and random. So that players have a brief random window of opportunity to roll it off like the explodey versions. If the player fails to do it, then they get zapped again.

Thanks for the continuous updates DE~!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Windbow

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Yesterday, I had to be careful and pay attention when I played the game. I had to try.

Today, nothing can hurt me. I'm a one man army. Nothing can stand in my way.

If that's how the game is going to play out from now on, why bother?

Seriously, tone the buffs down. This is ridiculous. The game is fun only when it's challenging and dangerous.

Have you considered removing the shield and health mods from your warframe?

[RicHSAD]

Have you considered removing the shield and health mods from your warframe?

Gimping yourself intentionally is not something the players should have to do to make the game challenging. The game is too easy due to poor game design and it is DE's responsibility to find a solution.

Edited April 2, 2013 by RicHSAD

[Namacyst]

Gimping yourself intentionally is not something the players should have to do to make the game challenging. The game is too easy due to poor game design and it is DE's responsability to find a solution.

+1

[Windbow]

Gimping yourself intentionally is not something the players should have to do to make the game challenging. The game is too easy due to poor game design and it is DE's responsability to find a solution.

Thinking of it more like a player-customizable difficulty level choice. Many games have easy, normal, hard and some, insane difficulty levels that you can choose. Not so easy to do with multiplayer games. So, 'gimping' yourself is another way of achieving something like this for yourself while still allowing 'lesser' players to join you on a mission. Or not.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Gimping yourself intentionally is not something the players should have to do to make the game challenging. The game is too easy due to poor game design and it is DE's responsibility to find a solution.

Why not? If you don't like how "easy" it is to run with a shield and health mod, why don't you... Remove the shield and health mod? Might let you try out some powers you don't use in general.

Mind, I think the shield and health mods need a heavy nerf now that their role is mostly taken up by warframe levelling, but this whole "players have to gimp themselves to keep things challenging" objection is a terribly lame argument.

[RicHSAD]

Thinking of it more like a player-customizable difficulty level choice. Many games have easy, normal, hard and some, insane difficulty levels that you can choose. Not so easy to do with multiplayer games. So, 'gimping' yourself is another way of achieving something like this for yourself while still allowing 'lesser' players to join you on a mission. Or not.

Intentionally reducing the effectiveness of your character is not customization, it is gimping yourself. If the game is not challenging enough, you should move to a harder mission and if no such mission is available, then the game has failed to provide you with a proper challenge. Implementing something like a Hard mode wouldn't exactly be something that has never been done before in instanced based MMOs.

Edited April 2, 2013 by RicHSAD

[OriKlein]

End result of passives:

Majority will run around with pumped up shields and hp.

Me? I threw away redirect, vitality, steel fiber and fast deflection. Took instead quick rest, marathon, rush, reach and enemy radar (switched arifact to rejuvenate).

I die a little more often than I used to, but it's more loose and fun.

[EvilMind]

Does anyone understand the new details of fusing mods now? What's the most efficient route now?

[SoulEchelon]

Sigh. To everyone now suddenly jumping on the bandwagon to yet again complain about something you just complained about wanting implemented...

This was stated on page 6 of this thread:

Yep. We are looking at this as well, though it isn't as clear...

For those worried about top-end difficulty, boy oh boy, just wait. RELEASE THE VOLTRON NERVOS!

Seriously though, the top end curves are going to get adjust on AI. It was the low-end squishy and the fact that those two Mods were make-or-break that make the 10 warframe mod slots really 8 in practice.

and... page 7.

Since I feel like a heel after doing that and dumped platinum into all the CB accounts ... hopefully not! We do have stats for levels, so we don't need to estimate.

We're not nerfarious shadowy men, just trying to make the optional mods properly optional and make a rank 0 vs. rank 30 warframe 'less squishy' (aka listen to player feedback and act on it).

What DE was trying to do (and succeeded) was give us players more choices at higher levels. Want to be the tank of the group? Equip your hp/shield mods and buff em as much as you like. Want to instead focus on sheer power? Equip your ability-focused mods instead of the health-focused ones, since now you have 2 (or 3) more mod slots available for you to use whatever you want at higher levels. Want to be an epic ninja? Speed/Movement mods instead of power/health. Want to balance everything out? Well now you got more slots to mess around with instead of instantly putting in Vit and Redirection before putting anything else.

What ALOT of you are forgetting as well, is that not everyone has rank 30 warframes. Not everyone is currently enjoying what a rank 30 warframe has. These frames are -MAXED RANKED-. They are supposed to be powerful, are they not? We're supposed to be mainly using these frames for the harder areas of the game and long Defense missions.

The biggest problem we have here, are us old closed beta participants not thinking about what those that are brand new to the game are experiencing. Many of the positive posts in this thread were from newcomers that were having extensive trouble playing the game until now. These newcomers don't have thousands of fusion cores, multiple rank 30 warframes and weapons, billions of credits, or even literal experience playing this game. You don't get those "high" passives right at the start. Each rank, each "level up" gives you a stat boost in a particular area. This means that you're constantly rewarded for ranking up, and are strong enough eventually to not have to worry so much on health mods. That's EXACTLY what DE wanted, and what WE, as a COMMUNITY wanted.

I've noticed something. If a thread gets out of hand and people start throwing their biased opinions around, DE stops answering that thread (Or stops answering with full answers) until more levelheaded players come in. Guess what happened here? Stop thinking about yourself and your extremely large inventory of highly ranked equipment and start thinking about the newcomers who don't have them.

[Namacyst]

I've noticed something. If a thread gets out of hand and people start throwing their biased opinions around, DE stops answering that thread (Or stops answering with full answers) until more levelheaded players come in. Guess what happened here? Stop thinking about yourself and your extremely large inventory of highly ranked equipment and start thinking about the newcomers who don't have them.

The game should be fun for everyone.. noobs and veterans alike within the full extend of content availability. Currently it's not.

Noobs complained until they got what they needed besides skill and luck to finally get out or Mercury. I understand their point..even if it does not affect me.

But i understand the Veterans, too who do not want to get rid of their shield/hp mods to have something of a challenge. For Veterans with max lvl mods, guns and warframes the game was way to easy even before the last hotfix made the game completely pointless to play for them. So everyone complaining right now is right.. as were the noobs before Hotfix 7.6.

[BlueWhistler]

Hmm maybe they will toughen the mobs to scale with the new passive changes.

[zelgaris]

Hmm maybe they will toughen the mobs to scale with the new passive changes.

So the Vitality and Redirection would be mandatory again? Brilliant thinking :)...

[SoulEchelon]

The game should be fun for everyone.. noobs and veterans alike within the full extend of content availability. Currently it's not.

Noobs complained until they got what they needed besides skill and luck to finally get out or Mercury. I understand their point..even if it does not affect me.

But i understand the Veterans, too who do not want to get rid of their shield/hp mods to have something of a challenge. For Veterans with max lvl mods, guns and warframes the game was way to easy even before the last hotfix made the game completely pointless to play for them. So everyone complaining right now is right.. as were the noobs before Hotfix 7.6.

I'm still having fun, and I'm a veteran. Wanna know how I'm having fun? Since I don't need to use vit/shield mods any longer thanks to this update, I instead use other mods to make my warframe of choice more viable in multiple areas. Instead of being a pure tank, my warframe (I'm currently using a rank 25 Nyx) is highly capable in many areas...Just like how a higher ranked warframe should be.

I also actually go through the higher level missions where your shield will still instantly diminish against heavy shotgun fire from grineers, your hp quickly getting pounded into the ground if you're swarmed by infested. If you play your high level frames in high level areas, then hey - you'll PROBABLY have more fun! But if you muck about in the lower level areas with your higher level frames, then you probably won't have much of a challenge.

Would you bring your level 80 MMO character to a level 5 area to kill things? No, no you wouldn't.

[Windbow]

@RicHSAD: We'll have to agree to disagree then. Because I really disagree. As far as I understand it, it's DE's responsibility to make this game attractive and fun enough for as many people as possible and make continuous profit in the process. Not to address seeming game 'flaws' for the elite few. Fine, I'll say no more.

@SoulEchelon: Would love to see you in the Design Council, my friend! Not just because I agree with you, either. I've seen many a reasoned post from you. Hope you can upgrade. :)

[SoulEchelon]

@SoulEchelon: Would love to see you in the Design Council, my friend! Not just because I agree with you, either. I've seen many a reasoned post from you. Hope you can upgrade. :)

Thanks. Sadly I'm not sure if I'll have the money to before the Founders program ends. I might be able to upgrade to Hunter, but budget is a bit too tight for Master (for now). Still, no one knows the future.

[CTshade]

Ah, passive stats, just wondered why my shields went from 510 to 810 :3

[Unibot]

1) First I was happy - its a boost, improvement - I like those. Its an upgrade feels like you archieve something since its xp based, even if I got it at 1 time since already lvl 30 warframe.

2) Second, after doing solo mission I was - well it makes it easier now to win.

3) Third I tried infested defense and was like - well toxic ancients still give you hard time

4) Forth - I got my health and shields mods and I don't need to rank them since I already got needed health/shield amount, no need progress, bad

5) Fith - bad patch, they need to tone down either mods or passive boost or increase incoming damage.

6) Six - wouldn't that negate the changes then ? what were they made for ?

7) Seventh - I finally got it!! Customisation!! You don't have to run with shields/health mods, you don't have to run without them also. In fact with this new card ability system - you can make separate levels of cards so you can swap them and make a loadout for your warframe as you do for your weapon. Say its lvl 5 shields and lvl 4 health, then put the rest of energy to sprint and stamina mods for faster solo easy level runs. Or you have a defense mission solo - boost your shields and health with higher rank cards. Or you are going in team - boost your energy capacity and lower energy usage to use abilities more often. Or you like those radar mods - now you can equip them and still not suck from loss of usefull space.

You got the oportunity to tune your suit even further, the only thing that turns your gameplay boring - IS YOU.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Unibot

[fishworshipper]

Intentionally reducing the effectiveness of your character is not customization, it is gimping yourself. If the game is not challenging enough, you should move to a harder mission and if no such mission is available, then the game has failed to provide you with a proper challenge. Implementing something like a Hard mode wouldn't exactly be something that has never been done before in instanced based MMOs.

How about you implement your own Hard mode if you're so good at this game? Not everyone is a god who can kill any enemy in 12.7 seconds.

[Corrupted-Soul]

I'm a lvl 30 does that mean my shields and all that will get fully upgraded?