Barely Used Warframes

[OvAeons]

excal with a good blind build is amazing beyond belief. zephyr is a amazing but also difficult for most to obtain. i barely see nyx's, saryn is few and far between now, lots o rhino (only use him for high level if there is no trinity. glad i barely see vaubeans, he really is not needed in a lot anymore. glad i see frost for something other then glubers now that icewave is a beast. but i want to see more bloody Loki!!! love him with either invis or disarm build. and last one i barely see is Obersons, i like him for low/mid level infested defense/survival but i think many do not use him cause the ulti is too small a range... good in defense though.

[Gildemesh]

Everyone seems to hate Banshee's Silence ability. Why? I often play stealthy when soloing, and it sounds like you could easily stop someone from setting off an alarm or alerting friends.

[Iluminado]

*Banshee uses silence*

*It's totally useless*

A wild Banshee appeared.....

 

Who will you send out?....

Go Ash!!!

What will Ash do???

The wild Banshee used SPLASH SILENCE!!!

.....

But nothing happened!!!.....

 

Ash is confused.....

Ash used BLADESTORM!!!!

ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!!....

 

Wild Banshee fainted...........

[RealPandemonium]

A wild Banshee appeared.....

 

Who will you send out?....

Go Ash!!!

What will Ash do???

The wild Banshee used SPLASH SILENCE!!!

.....

But nothing happened!!!.....

 

Ash is confused.....

Ash used BLADESTORM!!!!

ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!!....

 

Wild Banshee fainted...........

This is funny because so many people say Blade Storm is useless (Blade Storm is amazing btw.)

[VKhaun]

Just Oberon and Banshee. Volt, Zephyr and Ember are less common in my travels, but I find great use for all of them when played well. I think they're less popular because people don't really see the potential and not because they're bad. Maybe Ember could use more team coordination, since not everyone is running around with fire damage on their guns all the time, but aside from that I agree with the consensus here. Banshee and Oberon.

 

Banshee they've said they plan to work on.

 

Oberon needs utility I think... going to go back and give him a fresh try tonight just because of this thread, but my impression was that he had nothing that scaled well and so once his damage wasn't overkilling everything he was done and could not go farther without being carried. As long as there are medium team health restore packs that can be made of nanospores he's just not worth bringing I don't think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ash is on the fence. On the one hand I put him right there with Zephyr and Volt where people just don't know how to work him. Most people seem to try and make him a gimp Loki, but his strength is to teleport FIRST and then do smokebomb in the middle of a bunch of guys, take a few swings with the invisible damage buff (no time wasted closing the gap) and then repeat. It's so effective I usually screw duration and do fleeting expertise because everything is dead before I'm visible and the buff is gone...

 

Problem is, enemies will finish animations and behaviors even if he stuns them and that means he gets thrown around like a ragdoll vs Grineer or Infested. Even with anti-knockdown mods or good blocking, the sliding away and interruptions result in his DPS falling off a cliff. Until the game is fixed so a stun is a stun, I guess he's in the needs help category.

Edited April 16, 2014 by VKhaun

[RealPandemonium]

post

Regarding Oberon, they need to take the Impact damage off of his moves and replace his 4 with something more interesting than a room-wide nuke.  However the health orbs and knockdown it brings are useful and worth noting.  His 2 could use a slowing effect, perhaps with Radiation procs and his 3 should keep healing even if you reach full health. I think 1 is fine as is but could use a little more pizazz.

[WARLOCKE]

I see Banshee in 1/3 games I play, but that is just me.

 

There are no bad Frames, only bad players.

*cough* Goat Boy *cough*

[VKhaun]

Regarding Oberon, they need to take the Impact damage off of his moves and replace his 4 with something more interesting than a room-wide nuke.  However the health orbs and knockdown it brings are useful and worth noting.  His 2 could use a slowing effect, perhaps with Radiation procs and his 3 should keep healing even if you reach full health. I think 1 is fine as is but could use a little more pizazz.

 

Pretty much where my head is at.

 

1 is for leveling

2 needs a slow or something

3 needs to be a regen buff so it can be used preemptively

4 ... I'm thinking you might be able to spam it with natural talent and stunlock everything while beating it to death against the floor... might be worth doing. Going to try him over again with natural talent and a full offensive magey type build. See how he does. (If I have the points for it.) but the power costs would be absurd and the benefit of health gloves doesn't fit with the CC of the stunlock at all. He's not going to take damage, he's going to lose all his power. Equilibrium won't help unless he's hurt. Same conflict.

Edited April 16, 2014 by VKhaun

[Taletreader]

I'll write this based on mine experience with them... Max Efficiency always.

Ash was the first Warframe I built. High survivability, spammable 650x2 Shurikens, Smoke Screen lasts long enough to escape, revive fallen allies or just the initial stagger, Teleport was S#itty in the past, but I played recently with him, and teleporting behind the enemy with a mini-stun isn't bad. And blade-storm, kinda too fast to see anything today, but always full 2600 AoE damage for 25 energy, is good enough for me. *cough cough* faster than a Rhino *cough cough*

Banshee I built as time went by, pretty good with friends, not so much with random people. Sonic Boom is good at low-levels, but in the future It become something like a Fus-Ro, throws enemies and doesn't do damage. While I never used silence, my friends really liked when I used Sonar. And Sound Quake, as people said, stunlock, but as soon as you get up, you'are down.

Ember is a walking fire-tornado, do I have to say more?

Excalibur, I never had one... but I have the Prime one ( :D ), and enjoyed playing with him. Slash Dash is good enough until mid-late game, but together with Super Jump, makes a great movement ability. Some says Radial Blind perma-blind enemies in the entire galaxy sometimes. And I really like using Radial Javelin, 20 blades flying around dealing 1300 damage is good enough for me.

Frost, I didn't use him after the globe recieved the "health", but sometimes I see people running around and killing everything with Frost Wave or Avalanche. Before the Update, he was THE MAN at defense or mobile defense.

Hydroid... I have seen him ONE time and was a fast mission... so... let's skip him (but he looks weirdly cool to play with)

Loki is really simple. Let him have a Dual Zoren or a Dual Ichor and he can enter hyperspace. I don't see him killing as much as Ash, but still one of my favorites, if I have to rush something, he is my pick. With energy siphoon, max efficiency and duration, I spend 12 energy to get 10 back. Decoy is really helpful when you want to kill things, switch teleport is fun (and can help your friends, you the "door bug" where you can't get through? Loki can get you through), and Radial Disarm is fun if "Come here Grineer, let me chop you with me double mini-axes!"

Mag was my first Warframe. Pull was cool in the past together with a shotgun and today I can pull,pull,pull,pull... it's great! (I avoid this while playing online, so don't worry). Shield Polarize is great for helping friends and dealing with corpus (I've already hit 200k with it, believe it or not), Mag + Soma or Brakk is my "boss doom combination", the duration of the bullet attractor last long enough for me to kill any boss (that doesn't have 'stages') with it. And Crush is... yea... good.

Nekros, I was really into him when he came out, since I like obscure things... Soul Punch is funny enough just because you can sing "I believe I can fly!" to your enemies, I always use Terrify to revive allies, it's not bad... I actually like the armor debuff. Desecrate... oh desecrate, If it wasn't for you, I never could've got the delta beacon... I love you <3 (worst used with Nova in the team), and Shadows of the Dead, beside the REALLY LONG cast, it's a little like Nyx Chaos.

Nova is a walking doom, do I have to say more?

Nyx is great, Mind Control is something like "Hey, Napalm! Kill that Scorpion for me!", Psychic Bolts... never used. Chaos is AWESOME! I can solo most of Mob.Def or Def with it, even survival if I'm lucky. And aborsob can save lifes, while the Gradivus was happening, I often ran into a room full of grineer that could easily kill me in a second, so... absorb... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... BOOYAH! Everyone is dead!

Oberon is good... Smite is a fire-works version of soul-punch, Hallowed Ground is good for Mob.Def, Def, in a door or while reviving allies, and It does stack! :D . Renewal is good enough for me, I rarely have to use it, but I like the effect. And Reckoning... I love running around invasions and being able to kill faster everything faster than a Nova or Rhino. I LOVE RECKONING EFFECT, SPEED AND DAMAGE! Maaaaan... Nuke Oberon FTW.

Rhino is Rhino, Iron Skin and Stomp. You can solo anything. Hand Down.

Saryn is the Warframe I've recently leveling up. Molt has saved me a bunch of times and I like exploding blood! (red energy miasma) It can kill most of things. That first ability is cool, but never used much. And never even equipped contagion. Still... Miasma all the way;

Trinity was the Warframe I most enjoyed leveling up, Healing, Mirror Damage, Unlimited Energy and Invincibility. Simple as that.

Valkyr... another one of my favorites. Since I'm hysteric (got the pun?), I never die! And I can revive allies whenever I need and pull things, and be like the Invincible Spider-Man! Warcry is great too, can synergy well with Hysteria.

Vauban... when I got him, I never stopped laughing, my friends were getting mad at me for filling an entire room with bounces in the middle of a survival... really, just thinking of it makes me laugh. If you're not leveling things, you like when he sticks his balls in you. Bastille is a cool-looking giant bird trap, it's helps a lot. And Vortex is good enough for me... but one advice? Never... NEVER mix High-level ODS with an Vortex and Valkyr hitting the enemies inside. Will crash the game of everyone near it.

Volt is good, I like his pikachu ability, his shield is good too, has saved me a couple of times. But he is like a Tesla-motorized Sonic. Speed and Overload are really cool... But I miss the electric Jesus piñata.

Zephyr... I don't have it, but a self-missile Warframe the creates tornados... looks fun.

This came out bigger than I expected.

Edited April 16, 2014 by xFrancis

[Epicboss58]

I am amazed by how infrequently I come across a Nyx. Have people simply forgotten she exists?  Nyx is my favorite frame and, in my opinion, is one of, if not the, strongest frames of the game. She has almost unlimited energy, good base stats all around, and has super high survivability since enemies are too busy shooting themselves to worry about her. Granted, Psychic Bolts is completely unnecessary and Absorb is buggy and too situation, but Mind Control, for only 25 base energy, turns a heavy unit into a friend that mows down its previous compatriots for you, and Chaos...well does exactly that. And to top it all off, she's damn sexy. 

Thats exactly what I mean! Idk why all the unpopular frames good or not are being neglected

[Epicboss58]

Thanks for all the replies guys :) But many people suggested that some frames have useless skills, I don't entirely agree to that. I believe there is a specific way to play each frame to maximize its efficiency. So can someone explain how to use a frame like Saryn or Ash? (I have Saryn but had no idea how to use her, and I tried ash on my friends account but he was pretty confusing too... And they SUCKED in high level missions, I screwed up so many times...) But then waiting for a buff seems pointless, but I still hope the devs will hear about this and do something about it to maybe make the frames more fun to use. Many people says frames are good if you "use them right." But how do you "use a frame right?"

Edited April 16, 2014 by Epicboss58

[RealPandemonium]

Thanks for all the replies guys :) But many people suggested that some frames have useless skills, I don't entirely agree to that. I believe there is a specific way to play each frame to maximize its efficiency. So can someone explain how to use a frame like Saryn or Ash? (I have Saryn but had no idea how to use her, and I tried ash on my friends account but he was pretty confusing too... And they SUCKED in high level missions, I screwed up so many times...) But then waiting for a buff seems pointless, but I still hope the devs will hear about this and do something about it to maybe make the frames more fun to use. Many people says frames are good if you "use them right." But how do you "use a frame right?"

Saryn's big draws are her extremely powerful 4 and her 1 being able to repeatedly Viral proc.  Saryn's 4 get stronger with lower duration so equip a maxed Fleeting Expertise and the Chlora helmet along with no duration mods.  Then take Intensify, maxed Streamline, level 2 Blind Rage, and Stretch.  Miasma now does over 4000 damage per cast to everything in a 22m radius for only 25 energy (also stuns for a few seconds.)  

 

Ash's strength is in his cloaking ability (melee multiplier and survival) and Blade Storm  (huge damage, armor-ignoring, become invincible for upwards of 10 seconds while recovering shield.)

[fatpig84]

Why Nyx is so rare ?

Because if you want a challenge in your game, don't bring Nyx.

I ran a self nading absorb Nyx and in comparison to trinity, she will destroy a link trinity in just sheer killing power alone as she can wipe clean entire rooms.

Why kill only 3 when I can kill....40 ?

Edited April 16, 2014 by fatpig84

[Axterix13]

Saryn's big draws are her extremely powerful 4 and her 1 being able to repeatedly Viral proc. Saryn's 4 get stronger with lower duration so equip a maxed Fleeting Expertise and the Chlora helmet along with no duration mods. Then take Intensify, maxed Streamline, level 2 Blind Rage, and Stretch. Miasma now does over 4000 damage per cast to everything in a 22m radius for only 25 energy (also stuns for a few seconds.)

Ash's strength is in his cloaking ability (melee multiplier and survival) and Blade Storm (huge damage, armor-ignoring, become invincible for upwards of 10 seconds while recovering shield.)

The problem with Ash is that Blade Storm takes so long. This has two big downsides. The first is that, once you get a good gun and mods, you can do more damage faster by shooting. That's great if you want to conserve ammo or regen some shields, but not typically that useful. And the second is that your team kills the stuff long before you get around to it. Which means he has his cloaking ability left, and Loki does that better, while also having some other great powers. With a couple of small tweaks to his powers, he'd be great though. Say a cheaper power cost on the stars, an accuracy debuff on mobs for his smoke bomb, and some clones to help with the stabbing on his ultimate to reduce the time it takes...

I do love Saryn, but what she is isn't really needed in the game. She's a tough damage dealer, mostly, but when enemies drop in the blink of an eye, why bother with that when you can play something that moves faster? Added to that, what I think limits her use is that most people don't know about the -duration thing (and if everyone did, it would probably get fixed). If you don't know about that and don't have an FE mod, what are you left with? Her #1 is pretty bad other than deep into endless modes. Most people don't do that, and if they do intend to go far, they're far more likely to swap to one of the frames considered a power frame for those. Molt needs a bit (okay, a lot) more hp and and threat. Contagion is probably okay now with melee 2.0, but a big issue for melee is closing quickly, and Saryn is one of the slowest frames. I do like mine, and I will use her from time to time for fun as well as Nightmare Alerts, but typically when I've got a goal, I'm on Nekros or Volt.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Axterix13

[tyki11]

Love my Volt, had him since he was a starter.

Best reaction ever was;

 

"What the F*** is all this lighting?!"

- Lone, confused Tenno.

[Hyunsai]

Nekros used to be rare, but with this beacon and stance stuff, I see them EVERYWHERE. Warframe is in "Walkind Dead" mode for a while I think.

 

 

I barely see Banshee and Ash otherwise.

[RealPandemonium]

The problem with Ash is that Blade Storm takes so long. This has two big downsides. The first is that, once you get a good gun and mods, you can do more damage faster by shooting. That's great if you want to conserve ammo or regen some shields, but not typically that useful. And the second is that your team kills the stuff long before you get around to it. Which means he has his cloaking ability left, and Loki does that better, while also having some other great powers. With a couple of small tweaks to his powers, he'd be great though. Say a cheaper power cost on the stars, an accuracy debuff on mobs for his smoke bomb, and some clones to help with the stabbing on his ultimate to reduce the time it takes...

I do love Saryn, but what she is isn't really needed in the game. She's a tough damage dealer, mostly, but when enemies drop in the blink of an eye, why bother with that when you can play something that moves faster? Added to that, what I think limits her use is that most people don't know about the -duration thing (and if everyone did, it would probably get fixed). If you don't know about that and don't have an FE mod, what are you left with? Her #1 is pretty bad other than deep into endless modes. Most people don't do that, and if they do intend to go far, they're far more likely to swap to one of the frames considered a power frame for those. Molt needs a bit (okay, a lot) more hp and and threat. Contagion is probably okay now with melee 2.0, but a big issue for melee is closing quickly, and Saryn is one of the slowest frames. I do like mine, and I will use her from time to time for fun as well as Nightmare Alerts, but typically when I've got a goal, I'm on Nekros or Volt.

The problem with damage abilities is that guns are overpowered once you get enough mods and that there are so many "kill everything on the screen" abilities.  That makes Blade Storm, which is one of the best abilities, seem useless to players since people don't use abilities for damage.  They either use them to kill everything on the map and play sleepmode or they use them to exploit game mechanics to let them kill level 50+ enemies with their overpowered weapons in infinite content.  This makes useful but not exploitable abilities like Blade Storm under-appreciated and leads to all the forum threads you see that basically say "Ash [or any frame I play] isn't as good as Nova, buff pls."  

 

Once DE addresses press4towin abilities, Grineer armor scaling, and rebalances difficulty across content previously overlooked frames and abilities will see more use, but until then dumb people are going to be loud and demand an easy, mindless game where they can win by spamming abilities that they don't have to aim and where they can turn off combat and spend 80 minutes in a Survival to stroke their e-peen.

 

Contagion? Worthless? Hello Melee 2.0? Contagion works brilliantly. Plus, Saryn can give a hard 10 second stun, almost no other frame can do that

Contagion is weak compared to other melee-boosting skills.  Rhino Roar increases her entire melee damage by a percent (and affects teammates,) the invisibility moves and blind moves give a x4 multiplier, and the attack speed buffs both have additional advantages and affect teammates.  All Comtagion does is give you a Toxin mod on your weapon, essentially.  While this is good, it's not even close to the other melee buffs and is not a compelling reason to use Saryn as a "melee character," especially with the current Miasma bullS#&amp;&#036;.  50 energy is also relatively expensive considering the marginal benefit it gives and it also requires duration mods to have a good uptime which again clashes with Miasma and lowers her durability due to eating slots that would have been used for Vitality, Vigor, etc.  

 

Also, Miasma's stun doesn't scale with duration mods and is fixed at 4 seconds, so there's no reason to use anything except a minimum duration setup on Saryn.

[RealPandemonium]

 

Blade storm is weak, sorry to have to put it that blunt for you. It's slow and it's weak. There's a reason why so many ask for Ash to get a buff or his #4 to be re-worked. He gets at most 2-3 kills before everybody else has cleared the map. Blade storm is no where near "one of the best abilities", and given that it is damage, it does not scale up like CC.

 

2000 armor-ignoring base damage that also makes you invincible for up to ~25 seconds while recovering shields is weak?  

 

 

Maximization:

 

 Not sure what you mean by this, but you should look at this excerpt from the Tips and Tricks section of the Miasma page: 

 

• It is recommended to minimize your Power Duration to maximize the amount of damage done.
  • Damage per tick is calculated by dividing 750 / 950 / 1250 / 1500 damage by total duration.
  • Total damage is calculated by multiplying the damage per tick by (1 + total duration).  

 

 Equipping Fleeting Expertise and the Chlora helmet increases Miasma's damage from the base 1875 to 2571, and that's without damage mods.  Adding Streamline, Intensify, and rank 2 Blind Rage brings Miasma's damage up to 4036 while costing 25 energy and stunning afflicted enemies for 4 seconds, as the stun duration is unaffected by duration mods.  

Contagion can be used well to buff up your damage, as well as combine into other elements if i'm not mistaken on that one? I have two builds, one specialising in Strength, cost and Duration somewhat for Contagion and Miasma, and one for Duration and Range. She is very good in melee.

 

Contagion effectively adds a Toxin mod to your weapon for the duration which is not nearly as powerful as other Melee buffs as explained above.  It also requires duration mods to be worth it which makes Miasma weak and wastes mod slots.  

[RealPandemonium]

Miasma's stun is unaffected by duration mods.  Please do not post misinformation.  I'm not going to discuss the opinion parts of your post except to say that they indicate that you have a poor understanding of game mechanics.  

[Shackram]

I see Banshee in 1/3 games I play, but that is just me.

 

There are no bad Frames, only bad players.

 

Unfortunately some frames did draw the short end of the power stick.

 

Saryn: She has a Nuke but so do most other frames. She has nothing really special with use.

 

Two words: Dat &amp;#&#33;. :B

[Edgedemon]

they all have their niches.

 

Banshee is great for team play not only it has its damage buff, its 4th can stun lock any number of enemies while your teammates take em down and unless youre in a huge room most enemies will get trapped. lets not count infested cuz they are too easy.

 

Oberon 4th is also a decent C.C on any level, the slow animation and sure knockdown gives a breather when needed.  I only dislike its 2nd skill which should get a slow stun or something.

 

Zephyr is really fun to play, and has the best mobility in game not even a hobbled key can hold it down.

 

if Nyx is C.C Queen Vauban has to be King.

 

survival is almost not viable without a Nekros.

 

 

my less used ones now are Trinity because i don't like that lobster skirt and Rhino that i only use for nightmares. 

[Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai]

I love banshe yes she only has 3 good abilities you lucky sods with 4!

Anyway i noticed RANGE mods for her powers are funny :)

Neat trick with sonar is that any frame abilites that HIT it get bouns damage aswelll

Sooo Sonar Plus BOom/Quake or anyone elses abilites are funny

Sonar Pluls Thunderbolt Bow .....BOOM extra damage

its not that a team needs to learn aim  its that the TEAM needs to learn how to use a banshee to their benfit
and High levels sonar is a must it comes to the point YOU WANT TO AIM at the glowing parts.  dont be worroied about sonar on bosses being weird ...Banshee is about survival and defense missions reallly

Another point ....if the banshee build range and power cost reducation and power damage (effect sonar)
all three of her abilites are great!!

inb4 NEWB DEFENDINGS#&amp;&#036; FRAME USELESS!! lmao
and she can recast sonar again if she gets bad Glows.  

and if u have a source of engery in the team comp .....then SONAR 24/7 :D

Edited April 17, 2014 by Otharious

[Axterix13]

The problem with damage abilities is that guns are overpowered once you get enough mods and that there are so many "kill everything on the screen" abilities.  That makes Blade Storm, which is one of the best abilities, seem useless to players since people don't use abilities for damage.  They either use them to kill everything on the map and play sleepmode or they use them to exploit game mechanics to let them kill level 50+ enemies with their overpowered weapons in infinite content.  This makes useful but not exploitable abilities like Blade Storm under-appreciated and leads to all the forum threads you see that basically say "Ash [or any frame I play] isn't as good as Nova, buff pls."  

 

Once DE addresses press4towin abilities, Grineer armor scaling, and rebalances difficulty across content previously overlooked frames and abilities will see more use, but until then dumb people are going to be loud and demand an easy, mindless game where they can win by spamming abilities that they don't have to aim and where they can turn off combat and spend 80 minutes in a Survival to stroke their e-peen.

I agree fully that weapon mods are overpowered, and that ultimates are way too easy to spam.

 

That though doesn't change that Blade Storm is weak sauce.  Even if you couldn't use ultimates as often, it would still be weak sauce.  As you said yourself, there's lots of "kill everything on the screen abilities"... and you aren't including Blade Storm in that, are you?  Why?  Because it is outclassed by those abilities.  Not one or two of them, but a ton of them.  For that matter, weapon damage could be half of what it is, and it wouldn't make a difference as far as Blade Storm goes, because most of the mobs will be dead long before you get around to stabbing them.  The exception to that would be if you're in deep into an endless mode, but those are primarily possible due to borked abilities and overpowered weapon mods... both things you want fixed so that Blade Storm might feel useful (which it still would be).  Not to mention then the heavies, the mobs you most want dead, survive the stabs.

 

As to recharging shields, well, you can always go invis for that (even if Ash's invis is inferior to Loki's).  Or you could play a better frame that can actually kill stuff quickly before its shields drop. *ducks for cover*

 

You might not like it, but Blade Storm is weak sauce, primarily because it takes too long.  It needs to be faster, either due to having some clones/images helping to do the stabbing or due to hitting less targets (but for more damage, with high hp targets prioritized).

 

Also, it is worth noting that you don't see threads about Ash not being as good as Nova.  You don't see this because he's not good enough that you have to point to a frame with some obviously overpowered abilities to say "buff my favorite frame please".  All you need is him and his abilities.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Axterix13

[Kihana]

Does the limited frame slots a lot of players are possibly stuck with play into this at all?

 

If a player has only 2 or 3 slots then they are most likely to keep only the frames they enjoy playing, with a lot of frames getting removed after the mastery points are gained.

[Axterix13]

Does the limited frame slots a lot of players are possibly stuck with play into this at all?

 

If a player has only 2 or 3 slots then they are most likely to keep only the frames they enjoy playing, with a lot of frames getting removed after the mastery points are gained.

Doesn't make a difference for me.  I've got slots for all the frames (well, need he of the lame name still).  The more I like a frame, the more it gets used.  The less I like it, the more likely it will only get used if it has a really useful power for the situation... and potentially not even then.

 

But yeah, a person with fewer slots would keep the ones they like the most and/or that are the most powerful (or are hard to get), while they dump ones they enjoy less or find weak once they got them to 30.