Casardis Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Personally I think it was a good move to remove charge attacks, at least what we had before. However, by doing so, there's a big issue that happened to heavy weapons, mostly because of DE's way of balancing.Weapons like Fragor, Gram and Scindo are particularly slow, regardless of stances they use, and that's okay in theory since they're supposed to be hard hitting weapons with huge arcs. It's also why it would consume more stamina than, say, the Nikana which is a smaller sword made of Oxium (a very light material).The problem is that all penalties they have are NOT compensated by their strength at all. In fact, many weapons are way stronger or close to be as strong as them. Seriously, just look at the image below, at the two weapons' stats comparison, and tell me there isn't something wrong with it.Gram and Dual Heat Swords have the exact same base damage, but DHS has way higher spin attack damage, wall attack, and even if it says 0.9 for attack speed, its attack animation type is faster than great swords/axes (therefore the 0.9 doesn't mean anything). On top of that, it uses slightly less stamina (don't even get me started on the Nikana), and its stances like the Tiger one allows for great multihit AoE CC attacks.My suggestion should be obvious. If a weapon is to be heavy, what they lack in speed should be compensated by their strength greatly. Not a little, not an okay amount; GREATLY, and not bandaid that in stance combos (Crushing Ruin and Rending Crane). Additionally, edit the animations so that each attacks have proper momentum (applies to all weapons but most important on slow hitting weapons). Heavy weapons don't necessarily have better reach so you end up losing momentum, hitting the air, and wasting lots of stamina. Another suggestion would be for DE to be more crazy with how they play with stats instead of using the same formula. For example, currently slash weapons are always super high in slash only; there's no weapon with more equal stats spread, even though ranged weapons have such variants (no matter if it makes sense or not). There's no reason to restrict that, and it would allow further stats differences between similar weapons (Hate, Ether Reaper, Reaper Prime). And what about status? Why are so many melee weapons having 10% status all the time? Going further than stats, there could have been unique charge attack combos. They did it in Okami and it was simple: E (hold) --> E (hold) --> E (hold) --> E (hold) Each time you can hold, you can decide not to hold to do a quick attack with a similar animation,, and then decide to hold for the next attack (almost like how Channeling works, but still different, and can be combined with Channeling). In fact, all heavy melee weapons could have kept charge attacks. As Chlora said below me, charge attacks could have used utility (like Kestrel and Glaive) as its strong point. Hammers would cause 100% knockbacks, or at least a long stun that can open a finisher opportunity, and so on. These things shouldn't only be at the end of combos that take WAY too much time to execute, with no way to cancel it if you're hitting the air. Melee 2.0 nerfed them really heavily, and there's not that much reason to use them when dual swords, Glaive/Kestrel and Nikana are all much more powerful, useful (maneuvers), are way faster, and uses WAY LESS stamina, all at the same time. The only reason I still use Gram is because Cleaving Whirlwind's Broken Bull combo can actually be decent when used well, and the only reason it feels decent is because it feels just like melee 1.0's charge attacks (ironic, isn't it?). I'm just throwing things out there, but as it stands, heavy weapons are really lacking and aren't balanced properly as a whole. The problem pretty much just shifted with the removal of charge attacks without compensation.P.S.: Orthos doesn't count as much. That weapon has always been somewhere between light and heavy, and with its swirling fast, long ranged attacks it has right now, it doesn't suffer like the truly heavy weapons (hammers like Fragor which uses 20 stamina). EDIT: More feedback given in a post below: I would say that, for Galatine, its base damage should be lower than Gram (which was the case before, with its normal attacks, IIRC). However, channeling it would give it an innate crit boost (like how its charge attack had 20% crit chance before), with a very high crit damage, so that the way you play with Galatine is different from Gram, with its own weaknesses and advantages (currently, there's not much reason to use Gram over Galatine unless you really, really like Gram's look). Gram shouldn't only have higher damage, but it should be distributed a bit better than majority in Slashing. Since it's not a regular blade, more puncture could be given in after buffing its overall damage. Attack speed could also be increased, maybe when it's channeling. To me personally, when I say those things, it just shows how much all the new channeling mods all act as band-aids to what could have been interesting stats distribution from DE's part, with expansion on the channeling system to give weapons unique, innate channeling boosts, rather than putting everything as mods. Here are things they can clearly add to weapon channel and stance bonuses (not only stances, but some weapons themselves), whether for all attacks or only a few like they're doing with damage: - Channel Damage and Efficiency (needs to add them to the UI as well) - Crit Damage and Crit Chance - Attack speed (highly dependant on the weapon animations though, such as how Decisive Judgment is slower) - Reach (some stance combo may require channeling to be active, and it will do an energy aura that extends the reach in some attacks) - Status chance - More knockdown and ragdoll attacks - Multihit attacks (not multi-target, but rather hitting mutliple times a single target, which they do with certain stance and can easily add this for other attacks) --- Multihit attacks will also make faster combo meter build - Higher combo multiplier damage - More elemental additions (Heat Swords' flame wave finisher; something like a corrosive/poison finisher could be added to Scoliac for instance, since that weapon had Corrosive charge attack before). Edited May 14, 2014 by Casardis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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