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Simple Fix To Make Dark Sectors Endgame


notionphil
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There have been many suggestions to make the Sectors more than just another ODD/ODS, but most are complex (new faction) or won't actually make Sector's gameplay unique (new tileset) or won't add replay (put a prime there). Thus, here's my 2 cents on a quick fix that will:

 

Dark Sector: Pioneers

 

"Tenno, I'm detecting...it can't be...It's the Grineer. And they're WITH the infested!"

 

Grinner and Corpus Leaders explore the Dark Sectors seeking glory and profit for their Factions. Their squads paid the ultimate price to roam the Sectors without the ire of the infested; self-inflicted Technocyte infection (that hasn't yet begun to show).

 

Every wave in Defense and every ~2 mins in Survival, a Grineer or Corpus Leader unit will spawn, with a small contingent of its allies.

  • The leader and his allies spawn at 2x the level of the other enemies. EX: a lv 20 wave will spawn a lv 40 Leader.
  • They will always appear on the mini-map so the team can band together to take them on
  • Pioneers serve as announced "mini-boss" squads that mix up static gameplay & unite the Tenno in a serious challenge

 

This simple change will create tactical, desirable challenge spikes, prompting teamwork and strategy for survival. Engage in never before seen gameplay, such as defending against Bombards who are being healed by Ancients, Osprey shielded Disruptors. Or Scorpions, pulling you into an army of Chargers. Enemy too strong? Lead the Grineer to a Corpus squad and let them kill eachother.

 

Existing Factional strategies, like Bastille = auto infested win, Frost = auto corpus win...will no longer work. You'll be challenged to re-think, re-build, work together and come back stronger.

 

Obviously, this won't be the end-all-be-all answer to Endgame, but its a big step in the right direction towards unique challenging content, with no overhead.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by notionphil
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Nice idea, but I'd rather see new Infested units there specific for that regions, minibosses or rare Leaders with different graphic models, I am rly annyoed after killing the same enemies either normal or buffed(Leaders). Hmmm, maybe DE will surprise us in the future? 

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Nice idea, but I'd rather see new Infested units there specific for that regions, minibosses or rare Leaders with different graphic models, I am rly annyoed after killing the same enemies either normal or buffed(Leaders). Hmmm, maybe DE will surprise us in the future? 

 

At the rate we're going, we get a new enemy type about once an update. I don't know about you, but I don't want to wait until U14 or U15 to get something unique in dark sector.

 

I'd love new infested too, but this would shake up gameplay more quickly, and more effectively than waiting for a new enemy type. And if/when DE does that, they could add them along side the Pioneers.

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Way not a new enemy faction instead 

 

Because that will take many months to implement. A new faction is coming, but we don't know when.

 

The Pioneers "fix" can probably be done in a couple of days, depending on how the Evolution engine sets up spawn groups.

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I'd say the general direction gets my vote. Anything that replaces their 'more enemies more health' trend for difficulty would be a welcome change.

 

I'm still waiting with bated breath on the AI pass that adds some interest to gamplay.

Edited by Hyperius
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From a related thread on the subject of the Solar Rail conflict counting as endgame...

The things preventing it from being endgame so far as I can tell...

 

1. it's way too easy to deploy a rail resulting in constant, incessant conflict

2. there isn't a centralized way to tell what's under siege

3. there's too much difference between a brand new Tenno and someone who's MR15 numerically which completely overwhelms the value of skill

4. there's no way to augment your own rail's defenses

5. there's no challenge (because of 3 and 4)

 

I've got a ton of other suggestions, but fixing those alone would IMO turn it into an endgame.  It would need more to be a good endgame, but it would be something...

 

In terms of the Dark Sectors themselves, I think that these contingents of alternate enemies could be quite cool and would definitely switch up gameplay.  That said, to get Dark Sectors in general to be a form of endgame, we need to get both their conflicted and non-conflicted states to count, hence the above quote.

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From a related thread on the subject of the Solar Rail conflict counting as endgame...
 

In terms of the Dark Sectors themselves, I think that these contingents of alternate enemies could be quite cool and would definitely switch up gameplay.  That said, to get Dark Sectors in general to be a form of endgame, we need to get both their conflicted and non-conflicted states to count, hence the above quote.

 

 

Solar rails need their own fixes, primarily surrounding the concept of augmenting the defenses and the defender units (and debatably giving alliance players control of those units).

 

The Dark Sector nodes themselves MUST be physically separated from the Solar Rail nodes - a clan v clan battle should not lock the other 99.9% of players out of using a node for 2 days.

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Will you ppl ever learn that raising lvl doesnt make enemies any more challenging just more bullet spongy.

 

And putting leader as miniboss, long range aura is most punishing form of difficulty made so far in gaming, you cant do anything to avoid it either you can take it or you die.

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Will you ppl ever learn that raising lvl doesnt make enemies any more challenging just more bullet spongy.

You say to the inventor of the 'where are the interesting enemies' thread. 

Upping their level is only to make them bullet spongy enough to survive long enough to be interesting.

 

 

Will you ppl ever learn that raising lvl doesnt make enemies any more challenging just more bullet spongy.

 

And putting leader as miniboss, long range aura is most punishing form of difficulty made so far in gaming, you cant do anything to avoid it either you can take it or you die.

And that's a problem with leaders, not this idea, and these would be guaranteed spawns with a Lotus warning so you would know exactly when to expect the aura coming, which is a lot better than what we currently have for them.

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Will you ppl ever learn that raising lvl doesnt make enemies any more challenging just more bullet spongy.

 

And putting leader as miniboss, long range aura is most punishing form of difficulty made so far in gaming, you cant do anything to avoid it either you can take it or you die.

 

As a personal note, "You people" is just as ignorant and incorrect when you use it online.

 

See my below threads:

 

The Non-Bullet Sponge Mobs You're Looking For

 

Where Are The Interesting Enemies?

 

"ancient Healer *resists* Your Molecular Prime"

 

 

However, I'm working with the existing tools WF has: Leaders and level. You have a better solution with less overhead?

 

Post it.

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...Instead DE removed the leaders form all the void,  and who knows why

 

Your ideas are in the right direction. Like Sid Meier had said, a good game is a series of meaningful choices.  WF is basically broken, having some tools that can do every job removing any need for making the right choice in a given situation, even making the simple core shooter mechanics irrelevant. 

Still more fun than the mind-numbing gameplay of most lock-on-spam-spells-on-cooldown MMOs mind you, Im not bashing WF. 

But some things are in dire need of fixing, untill then we cant have any meaningful high-level "end-game".

Have you seen what "highlevel Frost gameplay" has become? Sitting on the pod spamming globes every 4 seconds. For an hour. 

Edited by Monolake
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...Instead DE removed the leaders form all the void,  and who knows why

 

Your ideas are in the right direction. Like Sid Meier had said, a good game is a series of meaningful choices.  WF is basically broken, having some tools that can do every job removing any need for making the right choice in a given situation, even making the simple core shooter mechanics irrelevant. 

 

Have you seen what "highlevel Frost gameplay" has become? Sitting on the pod spamming globes every 4 seconds. For an hour. 

 

If DE would just make a few units with different ways to "protect" their allies from sustained gunfire and tenno abilities, WF would be a much better place.

 

the new Persecutor mob....soooo close. But DE decided to make his weakness...the RNG....sigh.

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If DE would just make a few units with different ways to "protect" their allies from sustained gunfire and tenno abilities, WF would be a much better place.

 

the new Persecutor mob....soooo close. But DE decided to make his weakness...the RNG....sigh.

 

Yeah, DE screwed them up by making their weakness only a single element, when in most cases combo elements are much more useful. At that level no one wants to carry single elements, and especially not the ones that are terrible against Grineer. Then suddenly every enemy is only able to be damaged by an element that they are strong against.

 

Even making a leader that reduces the damage that teammates take by 50% would be pretty nice, because you can still kill them, but it gives you a reason to kill the leader first. I do think that we need a marker on the map to show where leaders are though.

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Yeah, DE screwed them up by making their weakness only a single element, when in most cases combo elements are much more useful. At that level no one wants to carry single elements, and especially not the ones that are terrible against Grineer. Then suddenly every enemy is only able to be damaged by an element that they are strong against.

 

Even making a leader that reduces the damage that teammates take by 50% would be pretty nice, because you can still kill them, but it gives you a reason to kill the leader first. I do think that we need a marker on the map to show where leaders are though.

 

They over-thought it pretty seriously.

 

Even just making a unit that is invulnerable except a single tiny weak spot, or when knocked down, or from behind etc, would have been a welcome change to mix combat up.

 

EDIT - however much it was over-thought, Prosecutors are still a welcome addition. No one carries their damage type, so they end up being a huge bullet sponge mob that makes their team invulnerable. That's better than nothing...I guess.

Edited by notionphil
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As a personal note, "You people" is just as ignorant and incorrect when you use it online.

 

See my below threads:

 

The Non-Bullet Sponge Mobs You're Looking For

 

Where Are The Interesting Enemies?

 

"ancient Healer *resists* Your Molecular Prime"

 

 

However, I'm working with the existing tools WF has: Leaders and level. You have a better solution with less overhead?

 

Post it.

Reusing same resources wont ever work, we already developed tactics against every enemy in game(at least those who need any tactics).

 

If you want new challenge you need to introduce new mechanics.

 

Even if you introduce new mechanics it will all be in vain unless you also put unit which can nullify tenno powers, but they also need to be not too bullet spongy and there shouldnt be more than 1 or 2 of these at any time. Theres no point in new units if you can still press 4 and wipe them off or render them permamently useless by cc.

Thats what leaders could be instead of having their offensive auras, instead put moderately fast healing aura with damage reduction and/or 95% power dmg reduction aura and ability to purge all buffs from tenno and cc from its allies, but then raising their lvls would be more punishing cause you must deal with them 1st before dealing with rest. As for their offensive, they can call airstrike, you will see a beacon in place of impact and either you dodge it or die instantly(doesnt affect pod), thats mechanic which i talk about, hits hard but only when you allow it to hit you.

 

Side note: you may consider energy drain as tool which does above but there is big difference in these, when enemy can purge your powers you can still use them and have some advantage of doing so, but when you are drained from energy you just lost ability to do large portion of what your frame can and you cant do anything about it.

 

Side note2: making enemies immune to powers is another example of broken mechanic, instead each enemy should be affected by our powers, but if he was supposed to be immune he should be able to purge cc from himself. What is the difference you may ask?? heres example: nyx casts chaos all enemies are initially stunned before atual effect of chaos kicks in, units which were supposed to be immune to cc are able to purge it right after initial stun, making chaos still somewhat useful but not gamebreakingly OP.

Edited by Davoodoo
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That was a fine post and I like your ideas. Maybe jump into the 'interesting enemies' thread and discuss there. However you are incorrect. New challenges can also be created by recombining existing mechanics.

Old: Can you throw a football through a tire?

Old: Can you dodge a tackle?

New: Can you throw footballs through tires while dodging tackles?

I do agree that any challenge we can press 4 for to win is an easily avoidable challenge. This is why I'm suggesting everything spawn at 2x level so at least they will survive a single press of 4 or a single penta shot. I'm not pretending this is going to solve all of the game's problems, but that it will create a notable new experience at incredibly low overhead.

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That was a fine post and I like your ideas. Maybe jump into the 'interesting enemies' thread and discuss there. However you are incorrect. New challenges can also be created by recombining existing mechanics.

Old: Can you throw a football through a tire?

Old: Can you dodge a tackle?

New: Can you throw footballs through tires while dodging tackles?

I do agree that any challenge we can press 4 for to win is an easily avoidable challenge. This is why I'm suggesting everything spawn at 2x level so at least they will survive a single press of 4 or a single penta shot. I'm not pretending this is going to solve all of the game's problems, but that it will create a notable new experience at incredibly low overhead.

 

The problem with that is you basically just make the frames that scale mandatory for that content. It's not harder, just more restrictive.

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The problem with that is you basically just make the frames that scale mandatory for that content. It's not harder, just more restrictive.

It's a challenge unless you use one of the infinitely scaling powers. Additionally, the infinitely scaling powers will still behave "differently" than players are used to bc of faction mixing.

This is an admittedly stopgap solution. Until DE introduces a 'fair' way for enemies to resist/negate Tenno powers, all enemy based challenge will suffer the same pitfalls.

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This is an admittedly stopgap solution. Until DE introduces a 'fair' way for enemies to resist/negate Tenno powers, all enemy based challenge will suffer the same pitfalls.

It could be easily done.

Cold Leaders already kind of do it actually, just in the wrong order. They block the weaker projectile powers, Freeze and Fireball have to damage the globe, and Soul Punch can't target them at all, literally Soul Punch is 100% can't-even-damage-the-globe useless which means Shock probably does nothing either. But ults sail right through. Which is kind of disappointing. We finally got an enemy that forces power choice, without outright denying our ability to act, and its one weakness is the button we go for any ways.

Reverse that. Linear and projectile abilities pass through snowglobes, but they are invulnerable to ultimates and large AoE CCs. 

Barricade enemies that can put up bunkers kind of like Volt's shield, covers about 135 degrees in front. Projectiles abilities will still pierce them, but linear and full AoE abilities can't pass through them unless they have a direct line of sight from around the sides.

The problem we currently have with enemies and their methods of defending themselves is that they don't protect themselves from our choices. They remove that choice entirely. We go from one end of the spectrum to the other of ways to make choice meaningless.

Small-medium zones of protection against certain types of abilities. With the most common type being for our most powerful and most frequently used abilities.

This would create choice. What am I more under threat of? Units outside or inside the protection, and which of my tools will work best against that protection. 

 

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