"god Mode" Should Be A Skill, Not A Single Button.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Should be balanced like uber charge from tf2. Has to be earned and used as a clutch save or offensive push, definitely would make it skill based for sure.

That or just implement cool downs on all ultimates. Would balanced just fine and force players to save their ults for tactical usage.

Edited April 18, 2014 by GSDAkatsuki

[SoulDust]

When there's a large amount of high level enemies, things aren't dying quickly. When things aren't dying quickly, you aren't getting energy quickly (energy orbs don't drop by the dozen like they do - 30 minutes). So skill spamming isn't the brightest of idea's. And link will prove to not always be the skill you want to be using, or the most useful skill to use at the time. Especially spamming it as soon as possible on every cooldown. Then you'll need to rethink how you approach what's going on. Or have an angry team, that ask you why the hell you're playing trinity to just spam link.  This game has no means of strategy until things get hard. That's a point i'm trying to make is that, at the current difficulty, you can do anything and everything without much consequence. 

 

Edit: at that point with link spam 1 to 2 things will happens

 

1) you spam link and try to act like a badass tank chipping away any damage you can, until you realize you are low on energy. Realize you can't spam link anymore then Trinity's squishyness smacks you in the face. you're more or less dead weight in some situations. (some) at that point.

 

2) You'll be a actual support frame and support your team and use skills wisely, rather than turning your trinity into a rhino.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SoulDust

[ItalianPlumber]

In my experience with max efficiency and multi-Energy-Siphon parties, energy is no longer a gate, but a funny little number.

 

You know... now that I think of it, arguing this is meaningless. We both already agree with eachother, when it comes to the matter of the game needing more depth, more interactivity..

Edited April 18, 2014 by ItalianPlumber

[(PSN)WizdomWordz]

question: Why this obsession with getting Trinity nerfed? are u guys really that miserable? Did this all this crying work on Nova? No? Then what makes u think the devs will even LOOK in Trinity's direction?

[-CM-Crazy]

question: Why this obsession with getting Trinity nerfed? are u guys really that miserable? Did this all this crying work on Nova? No? Then what makes u think the devs will even LOOK in Trinity's direction?

 

I'm sorry for giving feedback on the game in a feedback forum. I must be a horrible crybaby.

[Luffy490]

question: Why this obsession with getting Trinity nerfed? are u guys really that miserable? Did this all this crying work on Nova? No? Then what makes u think the devs will even LOOK in Trinity's direction?

oh, I'm sure they look at feedback in the feedback forum.. Unless, you have some feedback that proves we shouldn't talk about invincibility? Nova is a different topic and probably shouldn't be compared to the "God Mode" that trinity provides.

 

many end-gamers actively seek out this God Mode and its becoming the meta, or it already is the meta.

 

I'm sorry for giving feedback on the game in a feedback forum. I must be a horrible crybaby.

 

Let us cry together.

[shut]

It could work, but consider that the only thing gating the usage of most abilities without cooldowns is energy, which is a gate that can be torn down with sufficient mods.

With cooldowns, certain abilities could stay ridiculously powerful while still being reasonable overall due to their downtimes!

Cooldowns are great on paper, but are incredibly irritating in actual gameplay (especially in action games such as this one). I used to be all pro-cooldown back in Vindictus when Transformation Special Ability spam was becoming a huge issue (basically "press Z to win" every twenty or so seconds), but once cooldowns actually got implemented, a good chunk of the gameplay was completely ruined for me.

They're arbitrary, and they're distracting. The focus changes from trying to gather energy as quickly as possible to waiting for this silly little timer to end. You either have to throw a good chunk of your attention at this little number on your screen, or risk having the skill refuse to activate on you in a situation where you might need it direly.

The biggest problem with cooldowns in action games is that they don't reward skill, they only punish it by forcing skilled players down to the same level as everyone else. This is not okay.

The solution? Alter the energy system. Energy should be gained by player skill and contribution, not RNG and looting. Energy should be a precious resource that you need to earn, not just something that conveniently rises out of the ground every time you hit 4.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SortaRandom

[aavvdkdk]

I don't see the difference between my invulnerable Trinity and my Rhino/Vauban/Nyx/Zephyr/Hydroid (you can actually take Excal pretty far as well) who can incapacitate anything constantly with the right mods. Just like Trinity can with the right mods. 

 

@SortaRandom

 

How do you intent on implementing that energy feature you talk about? I'm just curious to know. 

[Zkorp]

hey Plumber, try 1 hour or more before saying that's easy and that you have "just" to collect loot. Blessing is undoubtly OP but this not means that going for hours is "easy" anyway.

[WARLOCKE]

I'm saying that there's a lot more broken frames than trinity. I can solo over an hour of defense with nearly all my frames. You're calling a support frame broken because she has skills that boost not dying. What the hell logic is that. Comparing oberon to trinity is pointless, oberon isn't a pure support frame. He just has a support skill, which is a half assed one at best. I guess I should just mention that I've taken a 30 trinity into defense with 4 people. Got to about an hour and 20 minutes. I had been downed more than anyone on my team simply because I couldn't control a swarm and skill spamming only does so much against strong &#! enemies. At that point she does what she's made to do. Support. And if you don't have help from those people you're supporting you'll be on your &#!. Unless you want to hide in a corner, of course. I say defense and survival for obvious reasons. I can run pretty much any node in this game with an unranked frame and have no threat at all. So yes, I believe it's a viable way to judge the merit of a frame. When things actually get strong and don't blow marshmellow bullets at you while getting 2 shotted by my bolter prime, only then do you see what works and what doesn't. At reasonable levels, which isn't level 30, trinity does what she's meant to do. She supports and tries to chip away damage from the background, or you'll find yourself on your &#! easier than you seem to believe. If you want a better definition of God mode, take old school embers 2nd overheat, and Rhino's iron skin.

 

Calling BS on half of this. There is NO WAY, none at all, that you are soloing survivals or a hour with Oberon, its impossible, even on Apollodorius.

[WARLOCKE]

question: Why this obsession with getting Trinity nerfed? are u guys really that miserable? Did this all this crying work on Nova? No? Then what makes u think the devs will even LOOK in Trinity's direction?

 

Because crying about Rhino is getting old.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Cooldowns are great on paper, but are incredibly irritating in actual gameplay (especially in action games such as this one). I used to be all pro-cooldown back in Vindictus when Transformation Special Ability spam was becoming a huge issue (basically "press Z to win" every twenty or so seconds), but once cooldowns actually got implemented, a good chunk of the gameplay was completely ruined for me.

They're arbitrary, and they're distracting. The focus changes from trying to gather energy as quickly as possible to waiting for this silly little timer to end. You either have to throw a good chunk of your attention at this little number on your screen, or risk having the skill refuse to activate on you in a situation where you might need it direly.

The biggest problem with cooldowns in action games is that they don't reward skill, they only punish it by forcing skilled players down to the same level as everyone else. This is not okay.

The solution? Alter the energy system. Energy should be gained by player skill and contribution, not RNG and looting. Energy should be a precious resource that you need to earn, not just something that conveniently rises out of the ground every time you hit 4.

Yes because reverse gravity stun lock was soooooo hard to pull off. You needed like coordination or something, had to actually make call outs and stun orders. And that fast sp gain just wasn't enough. :p

Seriously, cooldowns were fine in Vindictus, just poorly balanced for a couple of skills.

[Keltik0ne]

It's not Trinity, the corrupted mods need to be gutted, or the whole mod system.

[WARLOCKE]

It's not Trinity, the corrupted mods need to be gutted, or the whole mod system.

 

Fleeting is fine when used with most powers other than 4's. Taking it away would destroy a whole level of customization. You dont throw out the pie because of one bad apple (several in this instance.).

 

The correct fix is to not allow fleeting to interact with 4 powers. 

Edited April 18, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[Mageroeth]

my support frame is supporting too much. These skills are doing what they were meant to do too well. Game is broke, fix it DE.

 

I will never understand why people complain about something being strong in a PvE game

Your not alone man i was just in a valkyr thread and they think being invul isn't in character enough for the "Berserker" because shes not supposed to be a tank with 600 armor baseline and so on and so forth.

 

Sometimes i think its other players who are pissed they potatoed the wrong frame or something.

[WARLOCKE]

Your not alone man i was just in a valkyr thread and they think being invul isn't in character enough for the "Berserker" because shes not supposed to be a tank with 600 armor baseline and so on and so forth.

 

Sometimes i think its other players who are &!$$ed they potatoed the wrong frame or something.

 

Its a little more than that, If you have ever played witha full modded fleeting Blessing Trinity you would see that. I hate nerf calls, I really do. And this problem isnt just with blessing. But its the most profound version of a real problem. 

[Shaznaught]

I am a fan of trinity and support role archetypes everywhere, but that said, I too think she needs a readjustment. Invincibility is boring. The most fun I've had on this game so far is nightmare mode with no shields. I had to think, take cover, take pot shots, aim, cooperate, etc. it was great. Hitting 4 on trin takes all of that away.

 

I'll make another post about general game play at some point, but trinity highlights the areas in need of improvement on that front (nothing against Warframe or its crew...this is an issue for any PvE AI game).  

 

Proposed quick fixes for Blessing.

 

1.  Keep the heals as is.  Only make Trinity invincible, not the entire team.  This makes trin a "oh crap, I'm coming to save ya, Billy!" character.  Put a range on the heal too.  Map-wide is nice, but maybe a bit crazy.

 

2.  As others suggested, add a cooldown.  I suggest making it double your duration.  If you want to have 20 seconds on invincibility, you need to wait 40 seconds to use it again.  Your blessing only 4 seconds?  Fine, wait 8 seconds, Have fun spamming that bad boy over and over again.  Players could make choices on playstyle.  

 

3.  Make Blessing unable to be modded for duration, or efficiency if need be.  

 

My favorite:  

 

4.  Make the skill one where you can push and hold the 4 button at a significant energy expense...Say it drops you 25 energy a second (not sure how much it should cost...or make it % based so you could only do for say 5 seconds max no matter how bad-&#! you are).  While you hold, team is invincible.  No heal.  Much more telegraphed presence than the little flashy bubbles we have now.  

 

- It stops working the second you let go of the 4 button.

- You can use as an oh-crap, allow for another member of team to rez, survive an uber attack that's telegraphed, etc.

- This would require skill, timing, AND best of all, give a reason to use life well to heal again.  

- Give a precious couple of seconds to find cover...coordinate over the comm system.  

- Prevent endless, mindless spamming and boring game play.  

 

 

Edited April 18, 2014 by Shaznaught

[Methanoid]

since when was trinity the only frame with a godmode ability?

 

Trinity > Blessing

Excalibur > Radial Blind

Loki > Invisibility and Radial Disarm

Ash > Invisibility

Nova > Molecular Prime

Nyx > Chaos

Rhino > Iron Skin + Stomp

Vauban > Bastille and Vortex

Zephyr > Turbulence

 

^ just some abilitys i can recall offhand on some frames that can easymode/godmode pretty much anything, so its more than "just trinity".

[radiogluten]

They already nerfed trinity by giving blessing a timer. That means you and your team are vulnerable during recast. You can also get destroyed by a power leach. (No power, you now have a slow weak frame with no other tricks, and are toast). If you don't believe me, take a modded trinity into a t3 survival, she still will die once the baddies start killing in like 1/2 second (as will the team). If you want to redo trinity, take away the invulnerability buff, and also the timer and cast time. Give her the same stats as rhino. Now you have a tanky emergency healer, instead of a god mod bot. If you just nerfed blessing, trinity now becomes the worst frame in the game.

[low1991]

Trinity is obviously over powered. If you doubt this just go watch me play with 23s link with ~30m range and 19s blessing with my corrosive Castanas.

Blessing should reverted to ONLY healing health and shield, is that what you'r saying?

having full heal on shield & health is pea to higher level grineer/infested/corpus.

the invulnerability is given to US so we can run away from enemies' fire.

[JustSomeDude7]

I do think it's a little insane that it instantly restores health an shiled while also providing invincibility. That said, I do think debuffing it a bunch would make people "hate DE" for debuffing it. I do think it needs a minor tweak or something to make it less effective. I think it needs travel time to get to far away players, like Oberon's Renewal does (Renewal is a useless ability when a Trin is in the party, making Oberon suck even more than usual) , so that it penalizes players who don't stay close to the Trin. Also, a damage threshold on the invincility, like Rhino's Iron Skin might be a good idea. (Though as a 4th ability, the dmg threshold should be much higher than Iron Skin, imo) That way it's not a CONSTANT god mode in higher level play.

[Luffy490]

since when was trinity the only frame with a godmode ability?

 

Trinity > Blessing

Excalibur > Radial Blind

Loki > Invisibility and Radial Disarm

Ash > Invisibility

Nova > Molecular Prime

Nyx > Chaos

Rhino > Iron Skin + Stomp

Vauban > Bastille and Vortex

Zephyr > Turbulence

 

^ just some abilitys i can recall offhand on some frames that can easymode/godmode pretty much anything, so its more than "just trinity".

 

Uh, what? How does ANY of those abilities you mentioned (excluding Valkyr's invincibility) compares to Trinity's global Invincibility god mode?

 

- Nyx is invulnerable, yes, but she can't move and her Chaos is solely dependent on mod build.

 

- Excalibur's Radial Blind don't make you invincible.

 

- Stealth (Loki + Ash) don't make you invincible, as you can still take damage.

 

- Nova's Molecular Prime don't make her invincible

 

- Rhino's Iron Skin is no longer provides invincibility as it used to.

 

- Vauban (Or Booben lol) don't provide invincibility against bullets. 

 

- Contrary to the description. Zephyr's Turbulence isn't 100% perfect and you can still get hit by bullets.

 

Unlike those other abilities, there isn't any drawbacks to Blessing, other than the brief moment that it runs out. If you're in a late game mission (Long survival runs) and your Trinity goes down, then so will the team if thats the only Trinity.

[Wolfstorm18]

Trinity is underpowered in every way. 

 

 

[BlueSilkMetallic]

keep trinity as it is.

(Same for all existing frames except ember : bring back skill 2)

 

if people have fun playing invul : let them.

if you do not like them : play invite only

 

if you think pvp : maybe introduce a new frame that can disable warframe abilities ....

[Wolfstorm18]

if you think pvp : maybe introduce a new frame that can disable warframe abilities ....

 

 

This would be fun if the specters were a challenge. But they are not.