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The Wall Of Grind Just Gets Bigger And Bigger. It Was Supposed To Get Smaller And Smaller.


__Kanade__
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Right before the release of U.10 which was Lephantis and Nekros, DE said in the livestream prior to U.10 that they wanted to reduce the amount of grinding in the game cause they agreed, no one likes to play a game where it's a pure grind fest.

 

But oh look, U.10 came around and we needed to find Nav Coordinates, craft a derelict key, then once we had a derelict key, we then needed to search for golem nav coordinates and craft an Assassination key. Then defeat the boss and you would get a bp for Nekros.

 

Instead of just farming a regular boss like we do for Frost, Ash, Excaliber, Rhino, Loki, etc. We need to go through a wall of grind to reach Nekros, then later on, Volt and Nyx were removed their bosses as drops and now Volt is clan tech and Nyx is where ever Phorid is during Infestation outbreaks.

 

Later on, Zephyr was released, but look at that, she is clan tech hidden behind a ton of resources and credits, then after finishing the research, crafting each of her parts requires 200 Oxium instead of the usual some 50 Rubedo, 1 Control Module, 1 Neurode and 1 Orokin Cell like some of the regular frames need to craft their individual parts.

 

Hyrdriod is whatever

 

OR you can buy overpriced items that'll run you $20 for one weapon/frame.

 

 

 

 

So I need to ask.

 

In what area of Warframe was the grinding supposed to be reduced? Battle pay now rewarding Mutagen Mass, Fieldron and Detonite Injectors? Was that it?

 

Each update is just adding more and grind to the game instead as well as increasing the amount of resources needed for reasearch items. I used to play Warframe to get away from the grinding and RNG that Vindictus hides behind, now I see that FarmFrame is no different than a typical MMO where grind and farming is the game.

 

 

 

All this makes getting the resources needed to craft a Supra seem like nothing, and back then, the Supra took time to get. Upto 7 days in total. Now you just need to do a few invasions that reward Fieldrons and you can get a Supra in only a couple days or less. It seems like it only reduced the grinding for just clan tech weapons while everything else just increased in resources, money and time. So maybe that answers the question.

Edited by __Kanade__
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Two new nodes for every single region, which are the best leveling mission types against the best leveling faction and have XP boosts.

 

Clan control over how available those nodes are.

 

The ability to remove weapons and make split XP funnel to what you want to level only. 

 

New Mods that drop all over the game playing many mission types instead of confined to the void.

 

New void weapon came with removal of other things from it's uncommon and rare drop tables preventing dilution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

New boss ingredient drop rates aren't perfect in the first week?

DE must be a failure...

 

Is this boss setup even permanent? He's dropping on Ceres but Lech Krill is still the boss there? I think Lech Krill would make more sense on earth (Between Vor on Mercury and Vor+Lech Krill on Phobos, so people know how to fight him before Phobos) but Vay Hek already has an earth arena to fight him in. Not sure what's going on there...

Edited by VKhaun
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Maybe it's because I've come from other MMOs, maybe it's because I feel the grind is staying relatively the same in conjunction with the amount of content being added. Maybe both! But I don't really feel one way or the other when it comes to this whole grind topic. Again, it could be any combination of things that makes me feel this way, but this is just me.

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New frame "grinds" are a set value coupled with a worst case 33% chance odds for a brand new character that a player can chip away at whenever they want.

 

Void RNG "grinds" are two-layered slot-machine runs which get worse odds with each new patch.

 

 

One of those systems sucks, but gives you a fair chance, and the other is punishing and designed to get you to spend money.

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Two words: Reward Tokens.

Special currency you can earn instead of random RNG rewards, so you can buy rare items directly. Might take 20+ runs to save up for that Life Strike, but at least the reward us in sight and getting closer.

Any day now...

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To me, it doesn't seem like the grind/RNG is getting worse, it's just that there is more stuff that uses it. The old system was much worse. Back then, bosses used RNG to determine BP drops, so you could go 20 runs of a boss without a single BP to compensate. I still remember grinding 3 hours daily for 2 months straight for bloody Banshee parts, they used to drop off random missions. Compared to that, Zephyr/Nekros/Hydroid have been cakewalks by comparison. Nekros has improved, too. Remember when Lephantis only had a chance to drop a part?

 

Heck, imagine getting prime gear using the old void key model, where you had to grind endless defense for a CHANCE of getting a key, at least there is some compensation now with survival. Even then, trading has helped to alleviate some of the grind as well. Got parts you don't want? Exchange it for parts you need.

 

The grind for stances is something I am a mild stickler about, but I've generally found most rare stances to be frivolous novelties anyways, so I've stopped looking for them. How do I personally see the best Warframe experience? I would just play the game for fun. Mess around, and if it comes up, it comes up.

 

I've generally come to terms that Warframe is a slow burn game best taken casually. Something to waste an evening with, and no particular goals really(then again, this is written by the person who decided to waste 90 minutes getting a 10k hit combo, so I'm not the best judge of time management). Seriously, it's not the end of the world if you don't get something immediately. Warframe is not going to shut down anytime soon. Unless you're going to die tomorrow, then I suppose you do have some urgency.

 

Does this mean that DE is perfect and their system should stay as is? Absolutely not, there is always something to improve upon. I believe that bigger risks=bigger rewards is their next major challenge to face. That would solve a lot of end-game/grind issues.

 

Edit: I really do love "I believe" don't I?

Edited by InritusOO
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Two words: Reward Tokens.

Special currency you can earn instead of random RNG rewards, so you can buy rare items directly. Might take 20+ runs to save up for that Life Strike, but at least the reward us in sight and getting closer.

Any day now...

 

So people can add up all the tokens and declare it a grind to get everything in the game in a weekend?

 

It would be a great way to get what you want instead of what the dice rolls gave you, but it would be PR suicide. The game would never be seen as 'not grindy' ever again with all the progress in the whole game quantified in raw token form, even if it had no grind.

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We all knew what we were signing up for, a farming simulator. ( at least i did ) I don't see it changing any time soon. If you were to eliminate the farming aspect of the game, it can be completed in a couple hours as opposed to over a thousand many of use have put in and still going.

Edited by ZWarhammer
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Two new nodes for every single region, which are the best leveling mission types against the best leveling faction and have XP boosts.

 

Clan control over how available those nodes are.

 

The ability to remove weapons and make split XP funnel to what you want to level only. 

 

New Mods that drop all over the game playing many mission types instead of confined to the void.

 

New void weapon came with removal of other things from it's uncommon and rare drop tables preventing dilution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

New boss ingredient drop rates aren't perfect in the first week?

DE must be a failure...

 

Is this boss setup even permanent? He's dropping on Ceres but Lech Krill is still the boss there? I think Lech Krill would make more sense on earth (Between Vor on Mercury and Vor+Lech Krill on Phobos, so people know how to fight him before Phobos) but Vay Hek already has an earth arena to fight him in. Not sure what's going on there...

I hope to god that DE moves him to Ceres, or at the very least makes him accessible without needing a key, unlike Lephantis.

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With more stuff added into the game, do you honestly think that he grind will get smaller? How could it be lessen without additional mechanic to support it?

The grind will only get bigger as the game progress. It is a traditional ARPG design. I think this is the direction that Warframe has been heading toward for a long time now.

Warframe needs a fail-safe mechanic to give players a way to get what they want in a more reliable way. However, doing so through transmute will ended up with fixed transmutation recipe and just shortened the update's life considerably. Token for getting what you want? Is it fair to allow access for veteran but screw the new players who won't have these token lying around to use?

I think the real problem is static loot, not RNG. The fact that certain enemy drop specific mod that you need just one of the mod to enjoy playing means problem. Now imagine spreading this loot into a few levels of rarity (which gives player varied properties depends on rarity), player will get it faster but not necessarily the best one. They can enjoy the game and see progress through loot rarity.

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With more stuff added into the game, do you honestly think that he grind will get smaller? How could it be lessen without additional mechanic to support it?

The grind will only get bigger as the game progress. It is a traditional ARPG design. I think this is the direction that Warframe has been heading toward for a long time now.

Warframe needs a fail-safe mechanic to give players a way to get what they want in a more reliable way. However, doing so through transmute will ended up with fixed transmutation recipe and just shortened the update's life considerably. Token for getting what you want? Is it fair to allow access for veteran but screw the new players who won't have these token lying around to use?

I think the real problem is static loot, not RNG. The fact that certain enemy drop specific mod that you need just one of the mod to enjoy playing means problem. Now imagine spreading this loot into a few levels of rarity (which gives player varied properties depends on rarity), player will get it faster but not necessarily the best one. They can enjoy the game and see progress through loot rarity.

 

When you bring up ARPG it is exactly what Warframe is lacking, a traditional ARPG design. In traditional ARPG you have have only restriction to get an upgrade, that is the level of the enemy. In Warframe a lot of stuff that you want is restricted by a certain boss or a certain mob. For example if you want to get brakk you need to farm invasion until the system marks you. Afterward you have the second RNG, which is to have G3 to spawn. After you kill G3 you hit another RNG to try to get 1/3 part. 

 

Second example would be prime equips, you have to get various part from different Tier of different mission type of void. Good luck after that trying to get the part you want before using up all your keys of the type you need. 

 

I'm not saying that Warframe should be less "grindy", but I'm trying to say that this grinding model is rather tedious in comparison to the ARPG style you brought up. But then again, Warframe items' stats are static, so unless they make it so that each time you craft your weapon you get a random prefix&affix and stats, we cannot use the ARPG drop style.

Edited by Akayd
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When you bring up ARPG it is exactly what Warframe is lacking, a traditional ARPG design. In traditional ARPG you have have only restriction to get an upgrade, that is the level of the enemy. In Warframe a lot of stuff that you want is restricted by a certain boss or a certain mob. For example if you want to get brakk you need to farm invasion until the system marks you. Afterward you have the second RNG, which is to have G3 to spawn. After you kill G3 you hit another RNG to try to get 1/3 part. 

 

Second example would be prime equips, you have to get various part from different Tier of different mission type of void. Good luck after that trying to get the part you want before using up all your keys of the type you need. 

 

I'm not saying that Warframe should be less "grindy", but I'm trying to say that this grinding model is rather tedious in comparison to the ARPG style you brought up. But then again, Warframe items' stats are static, so unless they make it so that each time you craft your weapon you get a random prefix&affix and stats, we cannot use the ARPG drop style.

 

 

It is tedious because of the lack of randomness and proper tiering in loot. It certainly feels unrewarding when you manage to get Tailwind and Point strike from Lv40 Grineer, the same loot that dropped from Lv1 Grineer. It feels that there is no progress in term of loot. The grind can be lessen if you manage to get something 'different' half of the time spent in the game. If each mod has multiple tier in itself along with some minor enchantment randomly added into it then it would feels better.

 

Weapon is suffering the same fate. static nature and lack of wide varieties of lategame arsenal is hurting Warframe badly. Want to get Braton or Lato against lv40 Grineer? good luck putting a catalyst and 4 formas while managing to scratch their armor with your entire magazine. We need more varieties, more prefix/suffix, upgradable stat through mastery, etc.

 

Also, we need something to counter the grind. But that's means we need better loot as I mentioned above first or the game will lean toward veteran too much. 

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