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About The Solar Rails System, And A Suggestion For The Pvp


Aurassai
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Hello fellow Tenno, this is the first time I am posting here. The purpose of the thread is for me to share some ideas on how to improve the PVP in Warframe, and to also discuss a viable PVP system.

 

To start off, I understand that Warframe is not a PVP focused game and not every online game should be focused on PVP. However, I think it should also offer a viable alternative to all the Infested, Corpus and Grineer slaying, where Tenno variety and ingenuety also comes into play.

 

The first time I watched the Solar rails map show enemy faction of "Tenno" I was very excited that there will finally be some sort of PVP that actually has a meaning and reward (looking at you, Conclave). Then I was very disapointed, when the Warframes I found in the match were actually AI controlled. This got me thinking, why isn't this a battleground?

 

Now, what is the problem, if instead of the usual Sabotage PVE mode we have at the moment, we get a Domination style mode, where 2 teams of 4 people battle over for controll? There would be some AI controlled minions (like the MOAs we have at the moment) who can help take the objectives, in a large symmetrical arena-like map with a lot of obstacles and cover. Whenever a Tenno dies, there is a 30-40 seconds respawn timer.

If we look at the lore aspect, think of it as a display of strength, where avatars of the Tenno (those who fall in the battle don't actually die), fight for the Clan/Alliance they support.

Then, once the match is finished, the winning team gets a reward (more on that later).

 

Now, once we got that out of the way, lets speak of Balance. I think 2 solutions would be the following:

-The first (but less effective) solution to the problem would be to reduce all weapon damage done to Tenno, by 60 to 75%. Your fully modded Paris Prime is nice and all, but what does it matter if it deals 150 k dmg to Grineer grunts, when my hitscan, multishot crit Soma can kill you with a single bullet? This will also reduce the effectiveness of the Penta as an instrument of self mutilation.

You would use your conclave rating to enter the solar rails.

-The second (but more complex) solution would be through a new set of mods. There will also be a new mod set slot for each weapon/warframe.

These mods will be given only from PVP activity and will not work on PVE missions. Likewise, PVE mods will not work in PVP. The purpose of those mods would be to change the characteristics of your weapon, without making it too powerfull. Increasing the damage of said weapon, would decrease other stats, in a way that a Loki with an unranked Braton can still have a chance vs a 3 forma Rhino Prime with a fully modded Soma.

 

So what do you think about this?

Edited by Aurassai
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We don't need a viable PvP system, as it has been stated multiple times over the months, this is a PvE focused game.

The PvP we have now is good enough. I want the devs to focus on finishing their dream, which is a co-op game. Not PvP.

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Hello fellow Tenno, this is the first time I am posting here. The purpose of the thread is for me to share some ideas on how to improve the PVP in Warframe, and to also discuss a viable PVP system.

 

To start off, I understand that Warframe is not a PVP focused game and not every online game should be focused on PVP.

You should've ended at that. If you understand, that PvP newer was, is not, and will never be a big part of Warframe, then you should not bring the topic of PvP up.

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Unfortunately, I think you've just felt the disdain most of the community have towards PvP. This is not your fault, I assure you. But it's been brought up many, many times, and it's quite frustrating for everyone to point out that no, DE does not, in fact, wish to support PvP. 

 

You're free to express your opinion, as everyone else does, but you have to be careful when it comes to PvP: Many are rather hostile towards it, and for good reason. Warframe simply wasn't made for it. To gear it towards PvP would take a lot of time for no good reason, especially since lore-wise (as in, with respect to the story), we're not supposed to be killing one another. Pointing guns at one another is a very serious matter in the military, and for space ninjas, I assume it goes doubly so, since they're far more powerful.

 

Until a truly revolutionary idea comes along for PvP (I doubt it would, however), the overall consensus of vets is a rather unanimous "No". 

 

Personally, if you want a good match, play with your buddies, and go full Excalibur. Strip naked, and play with a Skana, MK1-Braton, and Lato. This is the purest form of combat, with both parties being equal. If you really want to use your full gear... It's pretty much curb-stomp.

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As I mentioned yesterday PvP in this game will take a lot of balancing. Ember has a fire attack that tracks enemies, Rhino has a cc aoe stomp, Nova perma slow, Oberon/Mag has crush, Vauban a black hole, and trinity has immortality and link. Now you can strip them off all their powers than you just have colorful avatars. Ok let us move onto the guns. Weapons like Phage, Paris Prime, Penta, and Soma are super strong and tend to do way more damage than all warframes have in shield and health. Also pvp eventually brings bad community. Bunch of butt hurt 12 year olds coming to the forums to call out some pink rhino prime that curb stomped them.  

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So to point out the massive inconsistency here then...

 

Why are there AI controlled warframes 'in play' when you choose to support a particular side in fighting over a Dark Sector?

 

The 'cause of lore' reason or Tenno not killing Tenno for no PvP has been broken and by DE no less ;) 

 

I appreciate that 'technically' balancing would be challenging/maybe impossible and I'd like to avoid adolescent disappointment (see U13 postponement rage) shotgunning all over the forums. If those are the real reasons that PvP is frowned upon/undesired then great, let's all be told that like adults

 

As far as PvP in Warframe goes I'd remember that 'never say never'... 

 

Catframe next? ;p

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So to point out the massive inconsistency here then...

 

Why are there AI controlled warframes 'in play' when you choose to support a particular side in fighting over a Dark Sector?

 

The 'cause of lore' reason or Tenno not killing Tenno for no PvP has been broken and by DE no less ;) 

Those are not Tenno. Those are but specters. We are not killing eachother, we are killing mere copies.

 

Clan copies their best warriors and sends these copies (controlled by some kind of Neural Sentry) to guard the rails. Specters are mass-produced cannon fodders, not ones of our kind.

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Personally I'd be all for this so long as its worked on after all the PvE stuff is finished, or at least mostly done. 

 

I'd like to have viable/fun PvP in the game, but since this game is first and foremost PvE oriented I'd rather have them focus on that rather than the PvP. 

 

An alternative I'd also like to see, but wouldn't be too discouraged about if it didn't happen, would be too do minor tweaks and stuff to the PvP while working on the PvE.

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It would be nice if actually people read a thread before judging it. Many of the problems given in the replies were actually adressed.

Regarding the lore:

If we look at the lore aspect, think of it as a display of strength, where avatars of the Tenno (those who fall in the battle don't actually die), fight for the Clan/Alliance they support.

...which in turn would also explain the respawn system.

Keep in mind, that as of this moment with the way the Solar Rails are, there are still "living" Tenno who are trying to sabotage the Solar rails of other clans (which cost resources that could be used on weaponry against the other factions, I should add) and are fighting versus "sentries" who are holding real weapons and pose an actual threat against them.

That aside, if we speak of development time and PVP affecting the PVE, this is why I proposed 2 solutions in the first place:

First of which is nothing more then a statistical reduction on the damage all weapons do vs Tenno (Warframe powers already do reduced damage). This is a suggestion requiring little development time, and as such doesn't completely balance the PVP but makes up for a good start, from which, depending on the feedback, other changes could be made (or not). It makes weapons such as sniper riffles and bows viable, as they would still do enough damage to provide an easy killing blow, while increasing the damage needed by an automatic/splash damage weapon.

The second solution is a more complex one, requiring more development time.

In it PVP mods could only be gained from PVP and only be used in PVP.

PVP mods are worthless in PVE and at the same time, PVE mods are worthless in PVP.

PVP will have no impact upon PVE as it will have its own progression, while at the same time the weapons used in PVP could only be achieved from PVE.

The mods used in PVP are such that provide a certain stat, at the cost of another stat.

I must also thank everyone here, who provided some context behind their opinion, didn't expect PVP to be this much of an issue in Warframe.

Edited by Aurassai
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Clan copies their best warriors and sends these copies (controlled by some kind of Neural Sentry) to guard the rails. Specters are mass-produced cannon fodders, not ones of our kind.

 

I'm not shooting the messenger here so thanks for the info - I appreciate the time taken to reply

 

This does however come across as a total deus ex machina justification i.e. it's utterly contrived

 

Deus ex Machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object.

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