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Melee 2.0 Attacks And Stances, Thorough Feedback!


Azamagon
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This is a thread dedicated to go through each weapontype and give feedback on all types of attacks and (if I have them) on the stances' attacks too. This is mostly gonna be feedback about

1) Animations

2) Combat viability in terms of speed

3) and mobility

This is not so much about procs and damage etc. That's a whole other balancing mess, which I have no time nor energy to give feedback about (yet). Yes, I'm gonna link to it in the Melee 2.0 feedback megathread, but it is very thorough and long, so I felt I needed to make this thread seperately.

 

Please comment with stuff you agreed or disagreed upon! :)

 

Other feedback for Melee 2.0 I have posted here.

 

Some general thoughts and first impressions about the attacks first:

* Speedissues - In general, not equipping your melee weapon and spamming the attacks is too good (or rather, stances are not providing good enough attacks). Usually, these simple combos are faster and more mobile. A few exceptions exist of course.

* Unrewarding - Most attacks (and mostly occuring inside stances, sadly) are usually far too slow and/or immobile. This makes combat a bit too stiff and stances feel very unrewarding.

* Amount of combos - I also think that there could be more combos in each stance. It's kind of repetitive right now, even with the new additions

* Counterattacks - The counterattacks are generally the most well done, in terms of animation! Single daggers, single swords. heavy axes/swords/hammers, staves, polearms, glaives and all fistweapons all look frikkin awesome! I also like the fact that you are invulnerable during the counteranimation, which makes it very rewarding to do (on top of the great animations)!

* Finisher activation - The 3 special finishers (Stealth-, Counter- & Ground finisher) could really go with being triggered with the actionbutton (Default key: X). Sometimes, you just don't wanna do those attacks.

* Backwards combos - Any combo utilizing the BACKWARDS command (Such as Shattering Storm's Falling Rock) are all horrible! Backwards is a really bad input when using melee, as you almost all of the time wanna move FORWARDS. On top of that, it makes the animations look twitchy and unsmooth as your character sometimes turns around quickly before doing the combo due to the backwards input. Imo change all combos that uses BACKWARDS commands to something else (just make them use the FORWARD command instead)

* Other issues - Iron Skin = Your parrying does nothing. That could go with a fix.

 

On to the specific ones!

So, as I said, what I'll mainly be judging is 3 things: Animations, Speed and Mobility.

These 3 things need to always be good (mostly Mobility and Speed though), regardless of the damage or procs, as they should be rewarding with at least somewhat neutral speed/mobilityboosts compared to regular spamming. Otherwise they are pretty much pointless and unrewarding compared to just spamming along.

 

Single Dagger

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Has a tendency to miss on the right side though (goes for most slideattacks)

* Speed: Fast. But due to the spin itself being slower than in melee 1.0, it misses a bit more easily in certain spots

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

* Other: Daggers have no knockdown or any other CC! That needs changing!

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Has an unnecessary slash after the stab.

* Speed: Kinda slow due to the animation ^

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Cruel and fitting

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Badass! Throw the dagger in the head then pull it out! Cruel and fun!

* Speed: Very fast!

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Good, cycles 3 attacks. However, it has transitionproblems between first and last attack (looks a bit weird), but nothing major

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Immobile, but due to fast attacks and mini-steps, not too horrible anyway.

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: The final stab looks nice for sure.

* Speed: However, the final stab is a bit slow

* Mobility: The final stab dashes you forward quite far, making you quite mobile.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-HOMING FANG-

Lashing Forward (EEEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Cutting Arches (EE Hold E)

* Animation: Looks very cool with a vertical upwards doublespin, ending with a downwards stab!

* Speed: Fast, in particular due to being a triplehit attack! The final stab has a tad of afterdelay though

* Mobility: Kinda low, in particular during the last stab which slows you down

 

Life Eater (EEE Pause EEEE)

* Animation: Very, very cool! The 4 added attacks are: 1) A tripleslash, 2) a single slash, 3) a mobile double spinslash and 4) a superfast doublespin slash with an additional third hit being an "uppercut"

* Speed: The different attacks: 1) Fast and triplehit 2) Mediumfast and single hit 3) Fast and doublehit 4) Superfast triplehit, but with slight delay after the last uppercut

* Mobility: The different attacks: 1+2+4) All low mobility 3) This first doublespin dashes you forward AND is 100% steerable midanimation and all!

* Other: Although cool and multihitting, I feel it could've been reduced to a shorter combo consisting of just EE Pause EEE utilizing just the 2 first basic attacks, and of the extra attacks, just the 1st, 3rd and 4th attacks as the 2nd one with a single simply slash is kind of unnecessary imo.

 

Homing Fang comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. Can't believe this is a problem with SINGLE DAGGERS...

* The combos, bar the minor mobility issues, are quite nice. They look flashy but are ALSO practical with their high speeds and multihits..

* Lashing Forward could've been a Forward combo though (EEE Forward E) while regular spam (EEEE) could've had a more simple final attack. Spamcombos need to be more stationary so you don't dash around needlessly.

 

-POINTED WIND-

Parting Edge (EEEE)

* Animation: Looks nice; Swipes and stabs ending with a doublespin slash

* Speed: ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE! One of the worst speeds of any stances! At the very least, the last attack is a double spinattack

* Mobility: 1st attack is 100% mobile, 2nd has low mobility, 3rd has a very short lunge, while the 4th attack (the doublespin) has horrendous mobility

 

Striking Gale (EEE Hold EE)

* Animation: Looks quite nice, although I personally think the last attack, the kick, looks kind of out of place and "hovery"

* Speed: The 2 added attacks are still very slow, however, both the additional attacks are double attacks. The absolute last attack though, the kick, has a very long afterdelay

* Mobility: Both extra attacks have horrendous mobility

 

Pointed Wind comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Needs more combos.

* Striking Gale uses a Hold combo (hardest to perform midcombat) yet is so very unrewarding...

* HORRENDOUS speed! Extremely disappointing stance, one of the worst.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is mostly done right with single daggers (except Pointed Wind, which on the contrary is one of the slowest stances across ALL weapons!), but mobility is done poorly (which really makes no sense since you are using a SINGLE DAGGER!).

This is what I would propose to change:

1) Make all the attacks mobile

2) Add 1 more simple slashattack to the gunmode meleespam (to make the transition look nicer)

3) Make the combo for stanceless meleemode the same as gunmode meleespam ^

4) The current stanceless meleemode combo (Same as Homing Fang's Lashing Forward), with the dash-stab in the end, seems more fitting as an EEE Forward E combo, which could be existing on single daggers when they are equipped (meleemode), at least with stances attached (I'd like it exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Dual Daggers

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Has a tendency to miss on the right side though (goes for most slideattacks)

* Speed: Fast. But due to the spin itself being slower than in melee 1.0, it misses a bit more easily in certain spots

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

* Other: Daggers have no knockdown or any other CC! That needs changing!

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Looks nice, but has a VERY frequent tendency to miss!

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Looks good

* Speed: The longer animation makes it a tad slow. Nothing too horrible though.

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Simple, but effective

* Speed: Very fast!

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Is ok. Cycles 2 attacks: A tripleattack and a doubleattack.

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Immobile, but due to fast attacks and mini-steps, not too horrible anyway.

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Is ok. Cycles 3 attacks: 2x tripleattacks and one doubleattack

* Speed: Fast overall

* Mobility:Immobile, but due to fast attacks and mini-steps, not too horrible anyway.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-SINKING TALON-

Lashing Panther (EEE)

* Animation: This combo utilizes three different multihit attacks, which is not bad, however, the transition animations are REALLY weird for them: The 2nd attack can interrupt the 1st attack's last strike AND the 3rd attack can interrupt the 2nd attack's last 2 strikes. Meaning, the transitions are actually done very poorly.

* Speed: Above interruptions MAY speed up the attacks somewhat though, not really sure (giving invisible strikes?). Despite that, the speed is STILL kinda slow.

* Mobility: 1st is low, 2nd is very bad, 3rd has a lunge

 

Rising Lion (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: The 2 extra attacks consist of a quite neat looking flipattack followed by a rising "uppercut" + a low afterswipe.

* Speed: The flipattack is slow, while the uppercut+afterswipe is quite slow too and has delay issues

* Mobility: The flipattack is done with a big lunge, but the uppercut+afterswipe is almost stationary

 

Sinking Talon comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Needs more combos.

* Lashing Panther has horrendous transition-problems in its animations. What's up with that?

 

-GNASHING PAYARA-

Gunmode meleespam (but stance installed)

* Special: This is the only stancemod that I've seen that alters the gunmode meleespam ... which is really bad, sadly.

* Animation: Kinda meh-looking single strike and a doublestrike

* Speed: Bad. There is also a delay between the the strikes. At least the second attack is a double hit (not saying much though)

* Mobility: Low, the second attack being extra bad

 

Cheetah's Guile (EEEE)

* Animation: Kinda meh animations.

* Speed: Delays between all attacks, making it slow. Hits 1x, 2x and 2x. Meaning that it's worse than stanceless spam.

* Mobility: Low, the 2nd and 3rd being extra bad

 

Flash Flurry (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: The 2 extra attacks: 1st one looks horribly stiff, 2nd one looks just kinda bad.

* Speed: Quite slow, but the last attack seems to consist of 4 attacks (the small dragging back of the knives is a full doublehit apparently, even though it looks superweak)

* Mobility: Bad, all of the attacks

 

Pincer Strike (EE Pause EE Hold E)

* Animation: The 1 extra attacks is a slow downward crossing slash. Looks decent

* Speed: However, it is VERY slow though.

* Mobility: Worst mobility of ALL Gnashing Payara attacks! You are almost 100% stationary!

* Other: Very unrewarding combo: It is quite a tricky combo to perform, only to get a slow, immobile, unflashy and single attack. Probably one of the crappiest combos in the game

 

Gnashing Payara comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Pincer Strike, one of the hardest combos to pull off in the game, yet is SOOOO unrewarding, slow and immobile.

* Probably sharing the #1 spot as the most disappointing stance in the game, along with Pointed Wind: It has bad animations, overly complex (and unvarying) combos, while also being immobile and slow. Not much to like.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is mostly done right with dual daggers, but not mobility.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) Make all the attacks mobile

2) Add 1 more attack to the stanceless meleemode combo (so you have the old Melee 1.0 combo)

3) Make the combo for gunmode the same as stanceless meleemode, as modified above ^

4) Possibly add a combo which gives dashing mobility (as an EEE Forward E combo for example) which could be existing on duals daggers when they are equipped (meleemode), at least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Machete

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Has a tendency to miss on the right side though (goes for most slideattacks)

* Speed: Fast. But due to the spin itself being slower than in melee 1.0, it misses a bit more easily in certain spots

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Uses a swordlikestab, very unfitting for the "machete" weapons (Kama, Prova, Machetes)! Would fit better with some kind of vertical downwardstrike of some sort

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Once again, a STAB! Just like with the Ground Finisher: Make it fitting for the weapontype!

* Speed: After the stab, there is an unnecessary weaponspin ("wipe blood" kind of thing). That makes it unnecessarily slow.

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Is ok, but is a really dull spinattack. Could be way cooler.

* Speed: Decent

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: ONE attack repeated over and over. Very dull.

* Speed: Kinda slow

* Mobility: Very immobile too. Only takes a single step forward.

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 5 attacks which are very simple horizontal and diagonal attacks. Kinda dull and repetitive.

* Speed: Very slow

* Mobility: Very immobile. Only takes single steps forward during the attacks.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-SUNDERING WEAVE-

Cresting Surf (EEEEE)

* Animation: Same 5 attacks as stanceless meleemode

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode

 

Riding Current (EEE Pause E)

* Animation: I like the final strike. Feels powerful

* Speed: However, it is far too slow

* Mobility: Just as bad as other machete attacks

 

Coming Tide (EEEEE Hold E)

* Animation: The final dashstrike is ok, but "charges" first, making it tedious (on top of the overly lengthy combo)

* Speed: Soooo slooooow! The last attack is slower than the other ones...

* Mobility: The last strike provides a good dash, which is ruined by the fact that if you move, you don't dash at all. Bummer!

 

Flash Flood (EE Block EEEE)

* Animation: Adds 4 attacks: 1) A quick horizontal slash 2) An upwards strike 3) A quick slash followed by a triple spinslash! 4) A downwards powersmash (like the one on Riding Current).

* Speed: 1) Very fast! 2) Normal, maybe a tad faster? 3) Quick slash and a fast triple slash (total of 4 hits!) 4) "Slow"

* Mobility: 100% mobile during all the added attacks! The triple spinslash forces you forward though (can be good and bad)

* Note: Animations-wise, I don't really think this whole combo fits all too well for Machetes. Why? Because of the doublehanded grip during the animations. That only really fits the LAST attack. The other attacks would've fit better if they were done with a onehanded grip, at most SUPPORTED by the other hand (but not HELD by it), that so because the grips are very small on the "Machete" weapons.

 

Sundering Weave comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Combos are too long and too repetitive. Bleh

* Now when Flash Flood got added, it is pretty much the only worthwhile combo to use on it. You even powercreeped the stances... yikes!

* Coming Tide and its final dashattack certainly needs to be made into a very short combo, so you can actually use its mobility bonus. And it shouldn't be an interruptible-by-movement dash either...

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Machetes are neither fast nor mobile. Simply bad through and through :(

This is what I would propose to change:

1) Make all the attacks mobile! Machetes were bearable in Melee 1.0 due to the chargeattack being mobile.

2) Make the attacks slightly faster

3) Make the combo for gunmode the same as stanceless meleemode, maybe also make them a bit more varied in animations?

4) Possibly add a combo which gives dashing mobility (as a EE Forward E combo for example) which could be existing on machetes when they are equipped (meleemode), at least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Single Sword

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Has a tendency to miss on the right side though (goes for most slideattacks)

* Speed: Fast. But due to the spin itself being slower than in melee 1.0, it misses a bit more easily in certain spots

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Simple but efficient stab

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: The stab looks nice, but the "wipe blood" afterslash is unnecessary.

* Speed: After the stab, there is an unnecessary weaponspin ("wipe blood" kind of thing). That makes it unnecessarily slow.

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Lovely stab! However, it seems to go quite a bit to the left sometimes, which makes it look like you are stabbing the enemy's armpit...

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 diagonal attacks.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can move freely while attacking!

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 3 attacks: 2 diagonal attacks and 1 horizontal. The horizontal looks weird (the hand is a bit too high up)

* Speed: Fast (maybe SLIGHTLY slower than gunmode meleespam, but barely noticeable)

* Mobility: All attacks are still 100% free of movement!

 

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Stance combos:

 

-IRON PHOENIX-

Wings and Beak (EEE)

* Animation: Cycles 3 attacks: 2 diagonal attacks and 1 dashing stab.

* Speed: The stab is a bit slow to perform

* Mobility: The stab has great mobility though

 

Taking Flight (EE Pause EEEE)

* Animation: The 4 extra attacks is a diagonal spinning attack and 3 diagonal upwards attacks. First one looks very nice, the 2 after looks kinda bad (baseball bat swinging) and the last one looks ok.

* Speed: First extra attack is a decently fast doublestrike (yay!) and the 3 final attacks are quite fast, except the last one which has a bit too long delay afterwards.

* Mobility: The first extra attack, while immobile, dashes you forward (so it's fine) and the 3 final attacks are completely mobile!

 

Iron Phoenix comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Needs more combos.

* Wings and Beak would fit better as a forward combo (EE Forward E). The stanceless meleemode spamcombo could then be the normal spamcombo for Iron Phoenix (although, the added horizontal strike needs animation refinement with its wonky wrist). Spamcombos need to be more stationary so you don't dash around needlessly.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility is generally done right for single swords (dunno about Crimson Dervish though)!

This is what I would propose to change:

1) The stanceless meleemode combo could maybe have one more left-going attack (to get a bit better loop transition)

2) Make the combo for gunmode meleespam the same as stanceless meleemode (but fix the horizontal slash animation first)

3) The Wings and Beak combo would be a good combo to give to swords as a mobility attack (maybe with EE Forward E as the combo?) which could be existing on single swords when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Dual Swords

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Has a tendency to miss on the right side though (goes for most slideattacks)

* Speed: Fast. But due to the spin itself being slower than in melee 1.0, it misses a bit more easily in certain spots

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Simple but efficient doublestab (potential misser though!)

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Maybe a bit overkill with the "jump on top of the enemy" thing? Not bad though

* Speed: Medium fast (due to animation)

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Simple, but effective. Could've been a tad cooler though.

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 diagonal attacks.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Immobile, but its speed saves it a tad bit

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 4 attacks: 2 diagonal attacks and 2 doublestrikes. Looks nice and basic.

* Speed: Fast. The 2 doublestrikes hits twice each. That means, the combo hits 6 times! (1+1+2+2) Very good speed-efficiency!

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-SWIRLING TIGER-

Raking Flesh (EEEE)

* Animation: 4 varied attacks. One of them is a doublestrike (the last one I think)

* Speed: Fast. However, there is only ONE doublestrike making stanceless meleemode better for spamattacks.

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Winding Claws (EE Pause EEEE)

* Animation: Looks really cool with lots of multihits and big swings!

* Speed: Very fast attacks and lots of multihits! Very speedy!

* Mobility: 1st and 4th of the extra attacks are mobile, while the 2 in between are not

 

Dancing Hunter (EE Hold EEE)

* Animation: The extra attacks look odd (bad) and the character looks out of balance. Made even WORSE when moving...

* Speed: Some multihitting attacks, but all still very slow

* Mobility: All 100% mobile. If standing still, the attacks grant mini-leaps

 

Swirling Tiger comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Dancing Hunter needs massive improvements, both rewardwise and animationwise!

-----

 

-CROSSING SNAKES-

East to West (EEEE)

* Animation: 4 other varied attacks. One of the strikes in the middle is a doublestrike.

* Speed: Fast. However, there is only ONE doublestrike making stanceless meleemode better for spamattacks.

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Northern Coil (EE Hold EEE)

* Animation: Looks really, REALLY cool!

* Speed: Last 2 attacks are too slow to perform with unnecessary delays and such

* Mobility: Only last one is mobile (does a big leap), the 2 before that are superimmobile! :(

 

Lacerating Leap (E Forward EE)

* Animation: Looks quite nice, although the last strike looks a bit weak-ish. Could be refined

* Speed: Far too slow and with unnecessary delays. At least has 2 doublestrikes (still not speedy enough though)

* Mobility: Only last one has a bit of mobility (a simple "leap")

 

Twin Fang (EE Pause EEE)

* Animation: Neat, but very unpolished and unfluent. Leapattack makes you float in an odd way, the swordthrows keeps you floating more (!), final attacks is ok. Looks worse while moving.

* Speed: Some doublehits but is faaaaaaaaaaaaar too slow. Not good at all.

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Last hit also leaps you forward, if you stand still.

 

Crossing Snakes comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* So many combos, yet so many useless ones:

1) East to West is slower than the stanceless meleemode combo

2) Northern Coil is cool, but is too slow

3) Lacerating Leap is far too slow and immobile, even with its (tiny) leap

4) Twin Fang is both too slow and has really odd animations

* Too many things to fix in this one. Tweak this stance massively!

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is so so for dual swords, and mobility is very lacking (which was not true for Melee 1.0!)

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be mobile!

2) Make the combo for gunmode meleespam the same as the stanceless meleemode combo. Possible make it the basic combo for the 2 stances as well (since the stanceless meleemode spamcombo is the most effective basic combo), or at least have 2 doublestrikes in each of their combos (So the 4 attacks consists of 6 hits each).

3) If the Lacerating Leap combo would be improved a bit in its animations and its speed, then it could possibly be a good combo to give to swords as a mobility attack which could be existing on dual swords when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Other bigger revamps:

* Split up Dual Swords so you have both Dual Swords and Dual Axes! They could have quite similar stuff in them and their respective stances, but there are mainly a few things that bothers me:

1) Current Dual Swords animations (both stances and stanceless stuff) fit the best for swords, using stabs and whatnot. If Dual Swords were a seperate category from Dual Axes, most things could remain as they are for Dual Swords, with only the counterattack for Dual Swords could maybe use some graphical improvement (utilize stabs somehow, similar to Dual Daggers?).

2) Having a category of Dual Axes (could also contain Dual Maces for future additions?), which would consist of Dual Cleaves+Zoren+Ichor+Kamas (currently), could use more "swipey" animations. The current Dual Swords counterattack would be a quite fitting counterattack animation for Dual Axes (Though I'd maybe have one weapon hit the gut, the other hit the head?) The stealth and groundfinishers could definitely go with more strike/swipe-like animations, rather than stabs. Same with many of the combo-strikes, stabbing motions don't really fit these axe-like weapons.

 

Staff

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Due to the width, it misses less than other slideattacks!

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: NEW! Similar to single swords (a swipe)

* Speed: Ok in speed.

* Mobility: Good! Aimable and all!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Very nice and large sweep! Certainly fixed from Melee 1.0!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Nice in essence, but looks dislocated from the enemy at times

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Whack! :D Excellent and smooth!

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 basic attacks (horizontal and diagonal)

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can move freely while attacking!

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 4 attacks: The two basic ones, then 2 HORRIBLE ones!

* Speed: First 2 are fast, the 3rd and 4th are very slow (in particular the 3rd one)

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can move freely while attacking!

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-CLASHING FOREST-

Skyward Limb (EEE)

* Animation: 3 good attacks! The 2 last ones are big and smooth!

* Speed: Quite fast, but has lots of multihits, making it speedefficient!

* Mobility: 100% mobile + The last attack has a bit of a dash-effect to it! Very good mobility!

 

Battering Roots (EE Pause EEE)

* Animation: A powerful looking swing (i like that attack's looks a lot!) followed by two vaulting kickattacks! Looks cool, although the final kick in particular looks a bit off. I'd replace the last kick with a huge, quick, horizontal doubleswing of the staff (to fit the transition better and to make it more rewarding)

* Speed: First extra attack hits twice and quite fast, the first kick hits multiple times (3?) but is a tad slow. The last one hits once and is slow though. Only real complaint would be the last attack for my part.

* Mobility: 1st extra attack is very immobile (shame!). The vaulting kicks are quite "dashy" though, making it decently mobile.

 

Resolute Flurry (E Forward EE)

* Animation: Looks really cool! Does a staffspin followed by a powerful forward thrust

* Speed: The first extra attack hits multiple times very quickly, while the thrust is a bit slower

* Mobility: Mobility is quite low with these attack though.

 

Clashing Forest comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* One of the better stances combos-wise, but needs input-refinement:

1) Resolute Flurry and Skyward Limb could, more or less, have their inputs swapped. Resolute Flurry is great for attacking while close and stationary, but has forward input. Skyward is great for closing the distance, but requires non-forward input. Needlessly backwards!

If you wanna move forward and use Skyward Limb, there is at least a workaround: Hold the blockbutton down while moving forward and attacking, that overrrides the forwardbutton's input so you don't do Resolute Flurry! However, that is just a workaround.

2) Battered Roots final attack is not rewarding enough, not does it transition too well. After the 2nd last attack (the vault), it would both be a better transition and more rewarding if the final attack was a huge spinning doublestrike with the staff. Missed opportunity here imo!

* Still though, despite these flaws, this is one of the better stances out there imo. So, as you can see, even being one of the best ones, yet it contain a bunch of big flaws! You have much work and polishing to do DE!

 

-FLAILING BRANCH-

Battered Thread (EEE)

* Animation: 3 attacks, all wide and powerful-looking!

* Speed: Quite slow. At least last attacks is a double hit.

* Mobility: 1st is 100% mobile, the other 2 are horribly immobile.

 

Rising Falls (EE Hold EEE)

* Animation: Decentlooking attacks for sure: Spinning jumpattack, spinning dash doubleattack, jumpkick with downwards staffsmash. First jumpattack has a weird delay on it though, before it is performed

* Speed: First attack with its delay slows the combo down. The other 2 attacks fast and mediumfast respectively, and both have 2x hits.

* Mobility: 1st and 3rd are immobile, while the 2nd is both mobile and dashes you forward in a smooth way.

 

Autumn Leaf (E Pause EE)

* Animation: Powerful and aggressive double downwardssmash and a leaping downwardssmash. Looks very powerful for sure

* Speed: First attack is both fast AND is a double hit. Second attack is slow.

* Mobility: The 1st attack is immobile, the other one leaps you greatly forward.

 

Clashing Forest comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Rising Falls really need to have its initial added attack sped up. You kinda hang in the air for quite a while, making it look "magical", which is very unfitting and unnecessarily slow.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed/multihitting is mostly done right with Clashing Forest, likewise with its mobility. Overall, the Clashing Forest-stance is one of the overall better stances in the entire game! Flailing Branch and stanceless meleemode though, not very good though either of them.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be mobile!

2) The 2 last attacks of the stanceless meleemode combo needs to be faster and look better in general. Then make that combo the gunmode combo as well.

3) Some mobilitycombo would be good to give to staves, which could be existing on staves when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!). Maybe a combo which uses something similar to the last vaultkick of Battering Roots (which in turn could then have its combo's last attack be replaced with a better attack instead. Read on Battering Roots for more details on that)

Edited by Azamagon
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Polearms

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Due to the width, it misses less than other slideattacks!

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Kinda low, but not horrible either.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: A bad doublespin

* Speed: Ok in speed.

* Mobility: Bad. Not aimable or anything

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Still a little annoyed by how the weapon is slammed. Great way to break the blade...

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Quite nice! Faster than before and has a nice little weaponspin. Somehow doesn't look as nice as it does on Axes & Greatswords though.

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Nice and smooth!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Its simple stab looks very good!

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 basic attacks.

* Speed: Fast and the second attack hits twice!

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can move freely while attacking!

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Very surprised here! Cycles 3 attacks: The first diagonal one, then a thrust, then a triple stab-ish attack!

* Speed: Quite fast, the last attack is a triple attack, which makes it quite speedefficient

* Mobility: Only the first attack is 100% mobile, sadly.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-SHIMMERING BLIGHT-

Slashing Wind (EEE)

* Animation: The 3 first attacks from melee 1.0. Doesn't cycle as well as in Melee 1.0 :(

* Speed: Decent, but not as efficient as the gunmode melee though.

* Mobility: Last attack is immobile, sadly.

 

Howling Gale (EE Hold EE)

* Animation: 2 Basic attacks followed by a very cool upside-down copter-attack and a weaponspinattack!

* Speed: The copter and the last spinattack both hit many times (like 3 each or so?). Very worthwhile!

* Mobility: The copter moves you forward, but the last attack is very immobile

 

Shimmering Blight comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Slashing Wind needs a fourth attack (the Melee 1.0 one please?). It cycles very poorly.

* Needs more combos.

 

-----

 

-BLEEDING WILLOW-

Lethal Gust (EEEE)

* Animation: 4 neat strikes: A horizontal slash, a double weaponspinattack, a horizontal slash and a double horizontal weaponspinattack. Looks quite nice overall

* Speed: First attack is quite slow (has an afterdelay), but the others are nice, especially considering that the 2nd and 4th attacks hits twice each!

* Mobility: 1st and 4th are bad, 2nd and 3rd are 100% mobile though!

 

Drifting Steel (EE Hold EEE)

* Animation: The 3 additional attacks are all cool-looking leaping/vaulting attacks with multiple strikes! Very martial artsy!

* Speed: The 1st added strike is slow and only hits once, but the 2nd and 3rd added strikes are both very multihitting and speedy!

* Mobility: All 3 added attacks are lunging you far forward. Might be overly mobile even, but if used as a gapcloser / hallwaycleanser, it's really good!

 

Bleeding Willow comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Needs more combos.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

A little hit and miss regarding speed and mobility for polearms.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be mobile!

2) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos could use the Melee 1.0 combo as their main combo (and made mobile of course)

3) The current stanceless meleemode combo (the one with lots of thrustattacks), if made more mobile, could be a fitting reach combo (as an alternative to a mobilitycombo, as an E Forward EE combo) which would be good to give to polearms, which could be existing on polearms when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!).

 

Axes & Greatswords

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic, but feels kinda short in its radius. Stretch out the arms more?

* Speed: Kinda slow

* Mobility: Not good. Halts your position.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: NEW! Similar to single swords, but is instead a VERTICAL attack. Quite fitting.

* Speed: Ok in speed.

* Mobility: Now aimable and all!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Looks great, very powerful slam!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Very nice! Faster than before and has a nice little weaponspin.

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Old kneekick and slash over the back. Still doesn't look too good with its out of sync damage and weird slash. At least imo.

* Speed: Kinda fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Absolutely awesome! Smacks the target around, then does a jumping overhead powersmash! :) Note: This goes for Gram and Scindo only, the Galatine however uses the single sword's spinstab animation (which is still quite nicelooking as well)

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 basic attacks: A horizontal and a vertical strike.

* Speed: Kinda slow

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 4 attacks: Horizontal, diagonal and 2 vertical.

* Speed: 1st is mediumfast, 2nd is fast, last 2 are slow.

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-RENDING CRANE-

Skull Splitter (EEE)

* Animation: 3 vertical attacks. While fitting its name, they are not good at all.

* Speed: All of them are slow.

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

Landing Dragon (EEE Hold E)

* Animation: The extra attack looks very nice with its vertical spinattack!

* Speed: The extra attack hits twice, thus kinda worth it.

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

Lashing Tempest (EEE Forward EE)

* Animation: 3 Basic attacks, followed by a broadside thrust and lashout horizontal attack, then a double spinning horizontal attacks. Looks quite nice (in particular the thrust)

* Speed: The 2 extra attacks are both doubleattacks, thus worthwhile to do!

* Mobility: The thrust moves you forward quite a bit. The others are just horribly immobile as always.

 

Rampaging Boar (EEE Pause E)

* Animation: Adds a dashing double attack, first being an "inwards backhandslash" and the other a diagonal slash

* Speed: Normal speed, but it consists of two hits, making it effectively twice as fast as normal attacks!

* Mobility: Added attack is 100% mobile + Steerable dash!

 

Rending Crane comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. If not 100% (due to being a heavy), at least more so.

* Landing Dragon feels a bit too unrewarding actually. More AoE on its last attack please?

 

-----

 

-CLEAVING WHIRLWIND-

Crowd Fall (EEEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Broken Bull (EE Pause EEEEEEE)

* Animation: The additional 7 attacks are all the same; Double spinslashes, great for clearing out infested around you.

* Speed: All the 7 spins are the same: Quite fast and hits twice each! On top of that, the two first regular strikes are fast as well (Horizontal + the quick diagonal strike), meaning this combo overall is quite fast for belonging to a heavy weapon!

* Mobility: The spins move you slightly forward. Still quite immobile though.

* Other: If you attack 8 times, you will be staggered for doing too many attacks! Funny little addition so that you actually need to count your spinattacks.

 

Sundered Tusk (EEE Forward EE)

* Animation: Adds two attacks. First adds a triple combo: 2x vertical downwards slashes, then an upwards one. Second adds a leaping downwards slash. Looks good, although... aren't they too "vertical" for being for Cleaving Whirlwind?

* Speed: Triple combo hits fast (in particular the first 2 strikes), leapstrike is very slow.

* Mobility: Triple combo is stationary, leapstrike ... well, it leaps you forward (steerable), yet feels kinda rigid and immobile anyway

 

Drifting Stampede (EEE Hold EE)

* Animation: Two attacks: First you spin with a dash and do a downwards slash, then you spin again and do an upwards slash. Kinda meh.

* Speed: First is normal, last is slower

* Mobility: First gives you a steerable dash, second is stationary.

* Other: Quite unrewarding combo, considering it's a HOLD combo (Feels like the inputs for Sundered Tusk and Drifting Stampede are reversed...)

 

Cleaving Whirlwind comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. If not 100% (due to being a heavy), at least more so.

* Aren't Sundered Tusk and Drifting Stampede too "vertical" for being on Cleaving Whirlwind? Isn't it the "AoE"-stance? I personally don't care, I prefer every stance to be decently versatile, but it does feel a bit out of place.

* I'd suggest to make an additional combo based upon this Broken Bull (Not necessary now though, due to more combos added)

--- Raging Bull (EE Pause E Hold E) ---

The added hold-attack could be a TRIPLE spinning slash with the last of the spinning slashes being a very powerful-looking one, and maybe with an aoe-knockdown effect to it. Suggested just to have something to break the monotony of the Broken Bull combo.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility and speed are both horrible for Axes & Greatswords.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be more mobile! Being heavy, I understand them being slower and less mobile, but they feel far too crippling to swing around right now.

2) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos should be the same, and they could use better attacks (some more horizontal and/or diagonal attacks please?).

3) Some kind of mobile-helping combo could be added (similar to Lashing Tempest?) which would be VERY worthwhile to give to axes & greatswords, which could be existing on axes & greatswords when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!).

 

Hammers

Slide attack, Wall attack, Jump+slam attack, Counterattack, Stealthattack & Gunmode meleespam

See: Axes and Greatswords

Note: Slideattacks might be slightly worse with Hammers (?)

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Very efficient, but looks a bit not-so-powerful with its tiny little leap. Not too bad though

* Speed: Very, very fast for a heavy weapon!

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Same 4 attacks for Axes & Greatswords, just in different order: Horizontal, 2 vertical and a diagonal

* Speed: 1st is mediumfast, 2nd and 3rd are slow, 4th is fast

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-SHATTERING STORM-

Rising Thunder (EEEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Falling Rock (EEE Backward EE)

* Animation: Hit and miss. The added two strikes consist of 1) A very heavy and weaklooking "liftup" of the hammer (looks bad, clunky and has bad transition from its previous strike) followed by a downwards strike (looks ok) and 2) A spinning upwards strike followed by a downwards onehanded powersmash, which both look good and powerful.

* Speed: The first two (liftup and downsmash) are quite fast, the last two (the spinning upsmash and power downsmash) are kinda slow though, mostly the spinning upsmash.

* Mobility: Immobile.

* Other: This combo uses a Backward command to be triggered which has two big problems with it:

1) It makes it look horrible sometimes, as sometimes the character turns around quickly before doing the strikes (looks twitchy)

2) It is very impractical, because it is extremely rare you wanna move backwards when fighting in melee.

It could simply be repaired by making it a FORWARD command instead.

 

Shattering Storm comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. If not 100% (due to being a heavy), at least more so.

* Backward combos really need to be scrapped. They make animations horrible and they are combat-unfriendly.

 

-----

 

-CRUSHING RUIN-

Tidal Force (EEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam (but missing the last attack though)

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam (but missing the last attack though)

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam (but missing the last attack though)

 

Shattered Village (EE Pause EEE)

* Animation: Adds 3 spinning attack: 1) The old chargeattack (without the "charge" though)for Hammers/Axes/Greatswords, the 360 spinattack! 2) The old Jat Kittag spinattack, but without the pre-chargeup 3) The old Jat Kittag spinattack now WITH the pre-chargeup

* Speed: First attack is surprisingly fast. Second is very fast plus multihitting! Last is slow to start, but then it is very fast and multihitting!

* Mobility: First is bad (stationary). Second has a steerable dash! Last is immobile during the chargeup (why?!) but has a steerable dash during the actual spinning attack.

Overall, the attack feels "twitchy", since you go from stationary to a sudden dash to stationary again to a sudden dash again. If nothing was stationary + if the dashes were instead made into 100% mobility with increased movementspeed, rather than actual forced forwarddashes (and that goes for all "dashes and leaps" imo) they would be FAAAAR better!

 

Crushing Ruin comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. If not 100% (due to being a heavy), at least more so.

* The Shattered Village really shows the issues with mobility of Melee 2.0. Even with (supposedly) aiding dashes, it can be hugely detrimental instead, just because the dashes are FORCED!

* Needs more combos too, obviously

 

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility and speed are just as horrible on Hammers as for Axes & Greatswords.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be more mobile! Being heavy, I understand them being slower and less mobile, but they feel far too crippling to swing around right now.

2) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos should be the same, and they could use better attacks (some more horizontal and/or diagonal attacks please?).

3) Some kind of mobile-helping combo could be added which would be VERY worthwhile to give to hammers, which could be existing on hammers when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!).

 

Scythes

Jump+slam attack, Stealth attack & Ground finisher

See: Axes & Greatswords

Note: Stealth attack just doesn't feel right for Scythes... The same could be said for Groud finishers (as the Scythes are not sharp on the TOP)

 

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Decently fast

* Mobility: Feels a bit better than Axes/Hammers, but still not too good.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: NEW! Similar to single swords, but is instead a VERTICAL attack, with the weapon twirling and all. Looks cool and fits the weapontype!

* Speed: Ok in speed.

* Mobility: Now aimable and all!

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Similar to Machetes. Not too goodlooking

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 horizontal attacks.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Immobile, but takes steps forward (due to the decent speed, this makes it less crippling)

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 3 horizontal attacks.

* Speed: Fast. Sliiiightly slower than the gunmode spam, but nothing to worry about.

* Mobility: Immobile.

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-REAPING SPIRAL-

Reclamation (EEEE)

* Animation: Same 4 attacks as in Melee 1.0 (2 horizontal, 1 vertical and another horizontal attack). Very smooth and with good transition.

* Speed: All decently fast

* Mobility: Low mobility (moves you forward a bit with most of the attacks)

 

Abyssal Automaton (EEE Pause EE)

* Animation: The two added attacks looks awesome: Vertical spinattack which leaves the weapon briefly stuck in the ground, then kicking up the scythe to do a cool spinning, hover, "sawblade"-attack at headheight.

* Speed: Both attacks are moderate in speed, however, the hovering "sawblade" hits multiple times!

* Mobility: The vertical spinattack leaps you a bit forward, otherwise they are both quite immobile

 

Reclamation (E Forward EE)

* Animation: The two added attacks are: A double upwards diagonal attack (X-shaped) and an upwards leaping/spinning attack. Looks very nice!

* Speed: While not the fastest of attacks, both attacks hit twice each!

* Mobility: Bad (lower than Reclamation)

 

Reaping Spiral comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Overall, if mobility was addressed, this is quite a nice stance, with very cool-looking attacks!

 

-----

 

-STALKING FAN-

Many Tears (EEE)

* Animation: Powerful horizontal strike, quick horizontal attack and a double "reap + spinslash" attack.

* Speed: First one is fast, but has a long afterdelay (makes it slow), second one is fast, last one is decently fast but hits 2 times!

* Mobility: Bad

 

Dying Light (EE Forward EE)

* Animation: Adds a leaping attack and a whirlwind spinattack! Both look great!

* Speed: First added attack is fast, second one is slow to start, but then does a 4x spinning hit!

* Mobility: Both leaps you forward!

 

Shadow Wing (E Downwards EEE)

* Animation: 3 decent attacks: A vaulting doubleattack followed by 2 horizontal swipes

* Speed: 1st hits twice at a medium speed, the other two are singular strikes at a medium speed

* Mobility: 1st and 3rd attacks makes you leap forward, the 2nd is immobile.

 

Stalking Fan comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* The very first attack needs to be faster (simply remove its long afterdelay)

* Backward combos really need to be scrapped. They make animations horrible and they are combat-unfriendly.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility is lacking for Scythes, but it's not as bad as for Axes/Hammers. Speed is quite nice however.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be more mobile! Being kinda heavy, I understand them being less mobile, but they feel a bit too crippling to swing around right now.

2) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos should be the same, they could both be using Reaping Spiral's Reclamation combo imo.

3) Some kind of mobile-helping combo could be added which would be neat, which could be existing on scythes when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!).

 

Katana

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: A bit less range than others, which makes it better for combat purposes, but worse for mobility.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast. Felt a bit slower to recover from than on swords, but that might've been my imagination.

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Same stab as on regular swords.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Very powerful-looking overhead slash. Could've been more fitting for the counterattack. A stab would fit Katana's quite well (better than Machete at least >_>)

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Ok. A horizontal slash spinning into an overhead skullstrike. Doesn't sync well with damage done.

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 horizontal attacks.

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can more freely while attacking!

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 2 horizontal attacks.

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can more freely while attacking!

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-DECISIVE JUDGEMENT-

Final Verdict (EEE)

* Animation: Uses 3 horizontal/diagonal attacks. Smoothlooking, but has not so great transition from the last to a new first attack.

* Speed: All fast, although the last one has a bit of afterdelay

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Can move freely while attacking!

 

Consent Decree (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: The two added attacks looks... different: 1) A spinning horizontal strike (looks ok) and 2) followed by a leaping horizontal strikes (the way the legs are makes it look like a ballerina-jump!) with a vertical downwards strike on the way down (looks ok)

* Speed: The first attack is ok in speed, while the second attack consists of two fast strikes!

* Mobility: The first attacks is kinda low in mobility, but the last doubleattack utilizes a decent lunge!

 

Swift Retribution (E Hold E)

* Animation: The added attack is a rising double spinattack. Looks ok, albeit a bit stiff

* Speed: Hits twice and quite fast, although suffers a bit from afterdelay

* Mobility: Halts you at first, but then lunges you quite far forward

 

Silent Acumen (EE Block EEE)

* Animation: The 3 added attacks all look nice and strong; 1 horizontal, 2 overhead.

* Speed: They are all horrible slow though, in particular the 2 last ones (the 2 overhead strikes). Combine that with lackluster damage, and they are NOT worth it.

* Mobility: Completely immobile.

 

Decisive Judgement comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* The combos and their inputs seem decently done, although the animations look silly in some strikes. Still though, they need to be more rewarding (goes for pretty much ALL stances...)

 

-----

 

-TRANQUIL CLEAVE-

Windless Cuts (EEE)

* Animation: 3 horizontal attacks, last one looking stronger than the others. Bad loop transition (same strike, pretty much, done at the start and the end...), making it look "clipped".

* Speed: 2 first are fast, last is slower

* Mobility: 2 first are 100% immobile, last one stops you...

 

Breathless Lunge (EE Pause EEEE)

* Animation: Adds 4 strikes: 1) A rapid triplestab 2) a horizontal attack 3) a flipkick and 4) a diagonal/horizontal powerstrike. Two big transition-issues here; The transition from the 2 first normal strikes to the triplestab is very bad + The transition from the final strike to a new first strike is also bad (kind of similar strikes, looking "clipped")

* Speed: 1) Triplestab hits 3 times and are all superfast! 2) the horizontal attack is fast 3) the flipkick is slow 4) the powerstrike is also kind of slow.

* Mobility: 1+2 are both 100% mobile, 3+4 are both bad in mobility

 

Beyond Reproach (EEE Hold EE)

* Animation: Adds a leaping vertical strike and another doublehanded vertical strike. Both look good and strong!

* Speed: Both are slow

* Mobility: Both are 100% mobile! Last strike also grants you a dash, but is not granted if you are already moving. Bummer.

 

Hook and Eye (EE Block EEE)

* Animation: The 3 added attacks are 1) A stab/slash, done after turning the weapon 2) a horizontal sweep 3) a broad dashing sweep

* Speed: 1+3 are both mediumslow, while attack 2 is fast

* Mobility: All 3 are 100% mobile! Last strike also grants you a dash, but is not granted if you are already moving. Bummer. AGAIN!

 

Tranquil Cleave comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* The combos are not different enough, imo. Both Breathless Lunge and Beyond Reproach seem to wanna be "single target" combos, but both have their issues (BL immobile, BR is too slow). Hook and Eye, I guess, is the AoE-y / mobility combo, either which it doesn't do well. More distinction between the combos please?

* I have a new nickname for Tranquil Cleave; Transition Mess. Seriously, the combos really don't transition well.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility and speed are both done generally well for the Katanas. Baseline combos and animations are a bit lacking though (but that's less of a problem)

This is what I would propose to change:

1) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos could use some more strikes to vary with.

2) Some kind of mobile-helping combo could be added (Swift Retribution comes to mind, although it could need some graphical refinement). which could be helpful, which could be existing on katanas when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!).

 

Glaive

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Can miss on in certain spots (like swords etc), but seems to be quite wide in its hitbox, making it more easy to hit with than other basic slide attacks.

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit though

* Speed: Good.

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Basic stab/downwards attack, which hits very easily!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Good, similar to dagger, but feels more out of sync in the animation

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Lovely animation! The legtrip and gutslash looks great!

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Charge attack

* Animation: Still looks nice.

* Speed: Obviously not too fast, but it has great range

* Mobility: Mobile all the way up until the throw

* Other: Could scale its damage with Pressure Point + Spoiled Strike, and maybe have its chargespeed affected by attackspeed (Fury and Berserker proc)

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 horizontal attacks.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles the 4 attacks from Melee 1.0

* Speed: Last strike is a bit slower than the other 3 attacks.

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Stance combos:

N/A

Don't have one yet!

 

- Comments -

Speed is decent, but mobility is lacking for the Glaive weapons.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks need to be more mobile!

2) The gunmode and stanceless meleemode combos should be the same (the quadruple combo, but the 4th attack needs to be made faster or turned into a doublehit attack).

3) Some kind of mobile-helping combo could possible be added, although glaives could stand as an exception to not having one, due to having the throw!

4) When the Glaive is equipped (meleemode), being able to throw it without attacking once before would be a great QoL improvement!

Edited by Azamagon
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Whips

Slide attack

* Animation: Basic. Same issue as always: Tend to miss a bit on certain spots

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Good. Takes you very far.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Basic. Hard to hit with.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Same powerful slam as with Axes/Hammers, but extends the whip a bit for better range.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Simple but fitting and very effective

* Speed: Very fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Nice, cruel and smooth!

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: Fitting and smooth, but deals NO DAMAGE?!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 diagonal attacks.

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 3 attacks: The 2 diagonal attacks of gunmode spam, then a long forwardlash with great reach

* Speed: Quite fast, the last attack is quite slow though

* Mobility: Immobile

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-BURNING WASP-

Buzzing Sting (EEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode: 2 diagonal and a long forwardlash with great reach

* Speed: Quite fast, the last attack is quite slow though

* Mobility: Immobile

 

Sparking Torture (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: The 2 extra attacks are great: A leaping circlestrike then a double circlestrike! Very effective!

* Speed: Decently fast, and the last strike hits 2 times. Worthwhile imo.

* Mobility: The first extra attack makes you leap quite far. Otherwise immobile.

 

Guided Claw (EE Hold EE)

* Animation: Kinda meh. First a shortrange circleattack is done, then a leaping forwardlash with twitchy animation.

* Speed: The circleattack is decently fast (but very shortrange) but the leap takes a while to perform.

* Mobility: The circleattack is immobile, but the lash leaps AND has long range. Not bad for range, but kind of immobile though.

 

Burning Wasp comments:

* All attacks could potentially be 100% mobile, but doubtful considering the range and width of whips *shrugs*

* Guided Claw seems a bit unrewarding, considering it has the toughest combo-input (using Hold). Both of the added attacks could go with being much faster and more multihitting. The first added attack (the circleswipe) could also benefit from a big rangeincrease (it's quite tiny in range)

* Overall, the combos that are there though are not too shabby! Sparking Torture is a GREAT combo.

 

-----

 

-COILING VIPER-

Whistling Wind (EEE)

* Animation: Nice and smooth. Consists of a wide slash, a doublestrike and a forwardlash

* Speed: Fast, and the amount of hits are 1x for the first one, 2x on the second one and possibly more than 1x on the last one as well! Need to check it out more. Still, overall it is fast and far-reaching.

* Mobility: Low (just makes small steps forward)

 

Tumbling King (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: The 2 extra attacks look nice: A leaping forward multilash then a tumbling circlestrike low on the ground.

* Speed: The leaplash is fast and hits multiple times, while the last one only hits once and is a tad slower.

* Mobility: Both the leaping attack and tumbling attack lunge you forward. The first one (the leap) is further reaching though.

 

Coiling Viper comments:

* All attacks could potentially be 100% mobile, but doubtful considering the range and width of whips *shrugs*

* Needs more combos, that's for sure.

* Overall, the combos that are there though are nice!

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is not the best for Whips (Whistling Wind on Coiling Viper is quite nice though), but mobility is a bigger issue, which I guess can be accepted due to the massive range they possess.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks could be slightly more mobile! However, considering that whips are tough to use + They have great range, I'd keep whips as the least mobile weapon for balance.

2) The gunmode combo could maybe have an additional third attack, like a "repeated" second attack or a more horizontal swipe (which should be fast and should transition well animationwise of course), and this could then also be the stanceless meleemode combo.

3) Buzzing Sting could be a be a fitting reach-combo (as an EE Forward E combo) which would be neat to give to whips, which could be existing on whips when they are equipped (meleemode), at the very least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!). Not too necessary though, due to the range they possess already, but not unnecessary either if they remain more immobile than other weapons.

 

Fists (Gauntlets)

Slide attack

* Animation: Uppercut attack! Looks nice and is fun to use, but is maybe a bit underwhelming compared to other slideattacks.

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Not too good. Just slightly better than the heavy weapon slides.

 

Wall attack

* Animation: SUPERMAN! Hard to hit with.

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Good. Aimable for great leaps!

 

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Cool looking groundpunch!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Greatlooking multihit-attack!

* Speed: Fast and hits many times!

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Stealth "finisher"

* Animation: Brutal necksnap!

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrrelevant

 

Counter attack

* Animation: LOVELY triplepunch! Feels very powerful!

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 3 attacks: Jab, jab & spinpunch

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: First 2 attacks are 100% mobile, last one is immobile.

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Same as gunmode but with 1 more jab in the end.

* Speed: Faster than gunmode!

* Mobility: 3rd is immobile, rest are 100% mobile

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-FRACTURING WIND-

Gaining Humility (EEEE)

* Animation: 4 attacks: Jab, uppercut, spinpunch and straight punch. Cycles well

* Speed: Fast, but the 3rd attack (spinpunch) is a bit slower

* Mobility: 3rd is immobile, rest are 100% mobile

 

Trailing Doom (EEE Pause E)

* Animation: The extra attack is a triplepunch and dashpunch! Looks nice!

* Speed: Tripleattack is very, very fast. Dash punch is decently fast. Worthwhile to use for speed.

* Mobility: The tripleattack is immobile. The last strike provides a good dash, which is ruined by the fact that if you move, you don't dash at all!

 

Rising Wind (EEE Hold E)

* Animation: Very cool-looking uppercut + downwards slampunch!

* Speed: While not the fastest, it hits twice and has quick recovery.

* Mobility: Extra attack is immobile

 

Rolling Gale (E Block EEE)

* Animation: Adds a swift doublejab + Powerful uppercut + Powerful downwards punch with a blast! All greatlooking

* Speed: 1st attack is very fast and hits twice, 2nd and 3rd attacks are both slow

* Mobility: 100% mobile!

 

Fracturing Wind comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* The combos (except for Rolling Gale) are not rewarding enough + too slow, both in animations and by being too long in combos.

* The dashattack in Trailing Doom in particular is done way too late. Should be an early attack, and maybe a FORWARD combo?

 

-----

 

-SEISMIC PALM-

Quaking Touch (EEE)

* Animation: 3 attacks: Backhand, recoiling downpunch and another downwards dashpunch. First one is awkward as a starting attack (on top of being slow). I would recommend adding a jab as the first punch for more smoothness.

* Speed: First one is VERY slow (long afterdelay), the other 2 are fast.

* Mobility: First 2 are immobile, last one has a nice dash effect!

* Other: Last strike always knockdowns and pushes enemies away!

 

Echoing Hands (EE Forward EEE)

* Animation: Adds a plethora of cool attacks, finishing with a little blastwave

* Speed: The extra attacks are all fast (last one is "slow", but hits in with a big aoe)

* Mobility: Starts off immobile, but gains VERY slightly dashing attacks later on. Very low overall.

 

Sudden Rockfall (E Pause EEE)

* Animation: Adds 3 powerful attacks: A vaulting doublesmash, a "clap" and a powerful downwards hammerpunch. All great! However, the first attack looks really bad if you move while performing it.

* Speed: 1st vaultattack is fast and hits twice, 2nd "clap" is slow, 3rd "hammersmash" is mediumfast.

* Mobility: All 3 added attacks are 100% mobile! 1st one also leaps you forward if you stand still!

 

Erupting Vulcan (E Block EE)

* Animation: Adds two swift and smooth punches!

* Speed: 1st vaultattack is fast and hits twice, 2nd "clap" is slow, 3rd "hammersmash" is mediumfast.

* Mobility: Both added attacks are 100% mobile!

* Other: Last attack put enemies in "counterfinisher stun"

 

Seismic Palm comments:

* The 2 new attacks are nice, but now all the combos and their inputs are certainly a mess:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* First attack of them all needs to have its afterdelay removed. This is only rectified decently in Erupting Vulcan.

* Erupting Vulcan fits better as the regular spamattack (EEE) but would then need to have its "counterstun" removed

* Quaking Touch fits better as the forward combo (EE Forward E), considering its leap and knockdown.

* Sudden Rockfall is ok

* Echoing Hands should be the block combo (EE Block EEE)

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is sort of ok for Fists, but mobility is an issue.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks could be mobile!

2) The gunmode combo could use the same animations as the stanceless meleemode one, third attack just needs to be a tad faster.

3) Possibly add a combo which gives dashing mobility which could be existing on fistweapons when they are equipped (meleemode), at least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Fists and Kicks (Kickbox)

Jump+slam attacks, Wall attack, Counterattack, Stealth attack & Ground finisher

See: Fists (Gauntlets)

Note: Counterattack could maybe utilize a kick in its attack?

 

Slide attack

* Animation: Forward flipkick! Looks good and ragdolls enemies (in an AoE now? Weird!)

* Speed: Fast.

* Mobility: Not too good. Better than fistweapons though

* Other: If you use Toggle crouch to slide, after slideattacking, you are STILL in crouch afterwards, which is quite annoying!

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Cycles 2 attacks: A doublepunch and a jab

* Speed: INSANELY FAST! AAAATATATATATATATA! :D Think Fang from Melee 1.0

* Mobility: 1st (the doublepunch) is 100% mobile, the 2nd is immobile

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 4 attacks: Doublepunch, jab, kick, doublepunch.

* Speed: Very fast (in particular the 2 doublepunch attacks), but not as insane as the gunmode combo.

* Mobility: 1st (the doublepunch) is 100% mobile, the 2nd and 3rd are not, 4th even less so

* Other: Attack a metallical wall with this combo. Sounds like a cool drumbeat! xDDD

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-GRIM FURY-

Bright Blaze (EEEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Burning Desire (EEE Hold EE)

* Animation: Adds a doublepunch (lowgoing punches, which makes you crouch, sort of) and then two cool roundhose kicks, one low sweeping the ground, one jumping and highly aimed. Looks awesome!

* Speed: Doublepunch is kinda normal speed, but a bit on the slow side for the kicks (compared to basic spam at least)

* Mobility: Low for all attacks.

 

Fanning Flame (EEE Backwards EE)

* Animation: Does a kind of lame looking roundhousekick (looks a bit weak) but it stuns targets, allowing you to do the counterattack (the awesome triplepunch!)

* Speed: Slow kick, the triplepunch though is decently fast (speed matters a bit less here, as I think you are invulnerable during counterattacks)

* Mobility: Kick has bad mobility (partly also because of the combo's trigger command being backwards), the counterattack locks you inplace (which is normal for those, and always lands its three hits, which is great, making mobility in that one obsolete).

* Other: This combo uses a Backward command to be triggered which has two big problems with it:

1) It makes it look horrible sometimes, as sometimes the character turns around quickly before doing the kick (looks twitchy)

2) It is very impractical, because it is extremely rare you wanna move backwards when fighting in melee.

It could simply be repaired by making it a FORWARD command instead.

 

Grim Fury comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile.

* Burning Desire and Fanning Flame are both simply not all too rewarding, due to their slow speeds compared to the stanceless spam (and that AWEFUL downards button being a combo input just SUCKS). This is probably more a problem of the stanceless spam being TOO FAST though.

 

-----

 

-BRUTAL TIDE-

Inferno (EEE)

* Animation: Consists of three attackcombos: 1) A spinning backhand with a spinkick. Looks good and strong 2) A ridiculous upsidedown splitkick (not practical for combat in the least) followed by a double kick, a la breakdancing, also weaklooking and impractical, and lastly a very lowaimed punch, a punch which can be interrupted by the third attackcombo > 3) A low doublepunch and an upwards spinkick. Looks ok. Only attack #2 looks bad, but the combo cycles well at least.

* Speed: 1) 2 hits at mediumspeed 2) 3 hits at slow/medium speed (1st of the three, the splitkick, is particularly slow) and 3) 3 hits all done quite fast.

* Mobility: 1) Mobile and with a dash baked into it! 2+3) Bad mobility

 

Rushing Fire (EE Pause EE)

* Animation: Adds 1) a spinning triple (or double?) punch which looks cool, and 2) a dashing "supermanflight" "doublepunch". Triplepunch looks good, the supermandoublepunch looks... ok I guess...

* Speed: 1) Triplepunch is medium fast (and a triple hit) while 2) the superman doublepunch is slow and only hits once

* Mobility: 1) Bad, while 2) has quite a decent dash to it

 

Brutal Tide comments:

* All attacks (goes for any stance) should be 100% mobile. I dunno how that would be possible for these combos though, considering the ridiculous split+breakdance in the midst of everything. Imo, scrap those animations. They are not practical at all.

* Needs more combos

* While Grim Fury loses quite a bit of speed compared to gunmode spam... Brutal Tide loses A LOT of speed. I think gunmode spam with its triple punch needs to be slowed down actually. It simply does not allow for the Kickbox stances to add anything with speed due to it. Brutal Tide could go with more speedy combos regardless.

* The Rushing Fire's dashattack comes WAAAAY too late, as the combo is quite long in animations (+ the stance in general is slow), making it rather pointless. If the combo was E Forward EEE, using the first regular combo (spinpunch+kick) followed by the dashattack as the second attack, then the cool triplepunch, then maybe some new finishing attack (with AoE or knockdown, whatever), the combo would be much better for mobility purposes.

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Speed is INSANE for Fists&Kicks (at least gunmode spam), but mobility is an issue.

This is what I would propose to change:

1) All attacks should be mobile!

2) Possibly tone down the speed of the attacks a bit for the gunmode spam. At least the first attack (which is a superquick doublejab). If not, stances and their combos will never be able to compete in terms of speed.

3) The gunmode combo could use the same animations as the stanceless meleemode one, the 2nd and 3rd attack just needs to be a tad more worthwhile (+ the 1st attack toned down in speed, as mentioned above)

4) Possibly add a combo which gives dashing mobility which could be existing on fist&kick-weapons when they are equipped (meleemode), at least with stances attached (I'd like it to exist on stanceless meleemode as well, to have more variety even without stances!)

 

Claws

Jump+slam attacks, Slide attack & Ground finisher

See: Fists (Gauntlets)

 

Counterattack

* Animation: Brutal animation! Jab in the claws, lift the enemy, spin around and slam them into the ground!

* Speed: Slow

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Wall attack

* Animation: NEW! Now does a backhand swipe instead of the "superman" punch.

* Speed: Normal

* Mobility: Good, aimable and everything!

 

Stealth attack

* Animation: Brutal as well, and similar to counterattack: Jab in the claws, lift the enemy, but then slam them into your KNEE (spinebreaker, ouch!)! Bad thing though, despite getting the target down on the ground, they are NOT considered knocked down (and thus will go straight up afterwards, which looks really bad)

* Speed: Slow

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Clawswipes from the right, the left and the right. Looks nice, but has transitionproblems when cycling the combo (both the last and first hit start from the right, looking really ... well, impossible to do really)

* Speed: Decently fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Yaaaay! :)

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 3 attacks: Clawswipe, spin and doublestab followed by a "ripout" with both claws

* Speed: Slower than gunmode meleespam yet, despite the animations, do NOT provide multihits! So, it's a bad combo for speed / multihitting

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Woo! :)

* Note: In my opinion, this combo is a bit too "exotic" to be a regular spamcombo. The last two attacks, in particular the second last with its spinstab, feels far too narrow in attackarea and too "spinaround" for being part of a spamcombo. The Gunmode spam is much better as a spamcombo (despite the slightly broken transition, which bothers me far less, as that combo is at least practical and fast to spam!)

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-MALICIOUS RAPTOR-

Jagged Gash (EEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Wicked Slash (E Pause EEEE)

* Animation: The added attacks consists of: 1) Two somewhat basic slashes, 2) A horizontal slash and a spinning horizontal slash 3) Spinning slash and double"ripout" 4) Five (i think) raging slashes. Only the last attack is interesting, imo.

* Speed: All the 3 first attacks are quite slow (but at least have 2 hits each), while the last one is both fast AND hits many, many times.

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Nice!

 

Venging Thrash (EE Block EEE)

* Animation: The added attacks consists of: 1) Three quick "stomach uppercuts" 2) Two "punchin" strikes 3) A headbutt

* Speed: First attack is both fast and hits three times, second one is average and hits twice, last one is slow and just a single hit (plus has abysmal range)

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Yippie!

 

Lethal Clash (E Hold EE)

* Animation: The added attacks consists of: 1) A triple spinning uppercut 2) A downwardsflying doublefist-crash (very powerful-looking!)

* Speed: First attack is both fast and hits three times, second one is average and hits twice, last one is slow and just a single hit (plus has abysmal range)

* Mobility: 100% mobile! On top of that, the crashdown also sends you quite far (and fast), but only if you don't move yourself.

 

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility is done completely right for Claws (100% mobility all over + a "leap" in Lethal Clash), but they are quite slow and animations-contra-multihitting-effects are not intuitive at all. This is what I would propose to change:

1) Add another basic swipe in the gunmode combo (for smoothing up combo cycling and fixing its bad transition)

2) The stanceless meleemode combo + Jagged Gash (they are the same) should be faster and give two hits each on both of the last two attacks. After all, you are using BOTH your claws in those two attacks...

3) Even if the stanceless meleemode combo + Jagged Gash was improved as suggested in point 2, I would STILL prefer it to be a different combo altogether from the gunmode one (so that you have the gunmode combo even in meleemode). What I mean is doing a tiny bit of a revamp like this:

* "Gunmode combo" = EEEE (Now also the basic combo in meleemode (Malicious Raptor or not), based on the current Gunmode one)

* Jagged Gash = E Block E Block E (The last hit being two much stronger hits, with 100% chance for Slash procs or something like that. It could even look "shinier" to imply its power)

* Venging Thrash = E Block EEE (Same as now, just requiring blocking earlier, as well as releasing block so you don't do Jagged Gash)

* Wicked Slash = E Pause EEEE (Same as now)

* Lethal Clash = E Hold EE (Same as now)

 

^ With those changes, I'd consider Malicious Raptor close to PERFECT!

 

 

Sword and Shield

Jump+slam attack

* Animation: Basic slamattack

* Speed: Slow

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Slide attack

* Animation: Same as single swords, a regular spinslash

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: Very good!

 

Ground finisher

* Animation: Powerful downwards shield-punch!

* Speed: Quite fast

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Counterattack

* Animation: Stab with the sword, then spin around and slash hard. Looks very good and powerful, despite its simple nature

* Speed: Average

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Wall attack

* Animation: Same as single swords

* Speed: Normal

* Mobility: Surprisingly bad, halting you mid-air very fast (bug?)

 

Stealth attack

* Animation: Slams the shield upwards onto the enemy, lifting them up in the air a bit, then does two quick swordslashes. Honestly, the simple swordslashes are bit too... "unfinishery", but the shieldbash looks good.

* Speed: Average

* Mobility: Irrelevant

 

Gunmode meleespam

* Animation: Simple cycle of a leftwards and rightwards swordslash

* Speed: Fast

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Yaaaay! :)

 

Stanceless Meleemode spam

* Animation: Cycles 4 attacks: Left/right slashes, a shieldbash and another slower swordswipe

* Speed: The last hit is a tad slow, but the first three are normal

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Woo! :)

 

----------------------------------------

Stance combos:

 

-ELEVENTH STORM-

Devouring Beast (EEEE)

* Animation: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Speed: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

* Mobility: Same as stanceless meleemode spam

 

Striking Thunder (EE Pause EEEEEE)

* Animation: The added 6 attacks consists of: 1 to 4) Regular swordstrikes and swipes, 5) A doublestrike 6) A dashing shieldbash

* Speed: The first 4 attacks are kinda average, the 5th attack (the doublestrike) is quite fast (and hits twice), while the shieldbash is a tad slow.

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Nice! The shieldbash also dashes you forward quite a bit

 

Diamond Deus (EE Block EE)

* Animation: Adds a shieldbash, swordslash and then an awesomelooking semi-short-distance shieldthrow (in a glaive-eque fashion). Simply amazing!

* Speed: The bash and slash are average, the throw is a bit slow BUT hits many, many times (5?). Very worth it speedwise!

* Mobility: 100% mobile! Yippie! Stops a bit before the throw though, but that's ok considering its longer range.

 

Bide and Bleed (E Hold EEE)

* Animation: The added attacks consists of: 1) An overhead swordstrike 2) A spinkick and quick swordstab 3) A FORWARDDASHING DRILLATTACK! Yes, it looks amazing!

* Speed: Overhead strike is slow, the kick+stab are very fast (and is a dual hit) and the drillattack hits many times!

* Mobility: 100% mobile! The drillattack also dashes you forward quite a bit, EVEN if you move during it (YAAAAY!)

 

----------------------------------------

 

- Comments -

Mobility is done superbly well for Sword and Shields. Speed is slightly slow sometimes, but makes up for it by having multihits here and there, making the combos actually feel very rewarding! These are the slight tweaks I'd do:

1) Stanceless meleemode spam + Devouring Beast (they are the same) could have its last attack either just be made faster, or could consist of a dualstrike or something.

2) Striking Thunder could benefit from a bit of more speed in the plethora of "regular" attacks. Not too bad though. The last shieldbash could need a better hit detection though, it's quite hard to hit with.

3) Diamond Deus' shieldthrow could possibly be aimable up and down (like glaives). That'd make it a bit more useful on non-plain fighting areas (this goes for all melee attacks imo, but more important here due to the throw used in the combo)

4) Bide and Bleed's first added strike could be faster.

 

^ Overall, only tiny fixes needed for this weaponstyle and its (so far) singular stance, making it one of the most useful AND practical stances in the game! Well done with this one, well done!

 

 

And now, for the TL;DR section, pretty much:

 

-------

Quick overall verdicts:

* Animations need a LOT of refinements. Lots of silly attacks + lots of looping and transition ugliness going on. I'm honestly dissapointed overall. There are some highlights though (counterattacks look mostly great!)

* Mobility is HORRIBLE, mostly. Everything needs to be mobile at all times (no attacks should root you in place, and if so, like if you are using heavy weapons, then only very mildly halting you). Far too many makes you stationary while swinging. Also, those that DO grant mobility in the form of leaps / forced forward dashes are TOO mobile and twitchy, mostly! If the leaps/dashes were instead made into 100% mobility with increased movementspeed during their effects, rather than actual forced leaps/forwarddashes, they would be FAAAAR better!

* Speed of the attacks are not all too good either, in needs of LOTS of polishing as well... Pointed Wind for example, why is a SINGLE DAGGER mod so insanely sluggish?

* Combo inputs are not intuitive at all. How are they distributed? By RNG? They can't just be distributed randomly, they need thought put into them! In short:

1) Standard spamcombos should be very basic. They shouldn't really add anything special, just be good for spamming up close. Thus: No extreme CC, like ragdolling, nor any dashes/leaps. A good, steady flow with nice speed and maybe a multihit or two in the last attacks in the combos, like a "speed crescendo" if you will, is a good standard for the spamcombos. All these points are, unfortunately, done very wrong (or even completely OPPOSITE) in most spamcombos... Too much CC, too much dashing around and way too much "speed diminuendo".

2) Forward combos should be about adding mobility, like leaps and dashes (but CONTROLLABLE, not forced, as mentioned in mobility). That just makes too much sense, really...

3) Hold combos (at least if the Hold input is later in the combo) should add the most, since they are the hardest to pull off. Great AoE, power and/or CC, preferably all 3 at once! Hold combos should preferably not add too much mobility though, since that can make them too hard to use up close.

4) Block and pause combos can be the wildcard combos (preferably with pause being slightly more rewarding than block, since it's slightly more difficult to pull off than block combos). They can add anything, really, since they are fairly easy to execute. Mobility, CC, Power, AoE, Speed/Multihitting, doesn't really matter. Just not too much at once (at least not for block combos).

 

-------

Quick stance verdicts:

* Homing Fang = Good. Speed/Multihitting is high. Mobility medium. Animations good.

* Pointed Wind = Disaster. Speed/Multihitting is HORRIBLE. Mobility low. Animations medium / bad.

 

* Sinking Talon = Ok / Bad. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low. Animations good, but has major transitionproblems.

* Gnashing Payara = Disaster. Speed/Multihitting is medium/low. Mobility low. Animations very bad. Only stance to alter gunmode spam as well (which is bad and very inconsistent)

 

* Sundering Weave = Bad. Speed/Multihitting is low. Mobility low. Animations repetitive.

 

* Iron Phoenix = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is medium/low. Mobility high. Animations good.

* Crimson Dervish = NO FEEDBACK YET (don't have the stance)

 

* Swirling Tiger = Good / Ok. Speed/Multihitting is high. Mobility low. Animations good + bad.

* Crossing Snakes = Bad. Speed/Multihitting is low. Mobility low. Animations bad.

 

* Clashing Forest = Great! Speed/Multihitting is high. Mobility high. Animations good. Combo inputs its only problems (can be worked around with the block button though)

* Flailing Branch = Bad. Speed/Multihitting is low. Mobility low. Animations good.

 

* Shimmering Blight = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is high. Mobility low/medium. Animations ok.

* Bleeding Willow = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is high. Mobility medium/high. Animations ok.

 

* Rending Crane = Bad. Speed/Multihitting is low. Mobility low. Animations good.

* Cleaving Whirlwind = Ok / Bad. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low. Animations ok.

 

* Shattering Storm = Bad. Speed/Multihitting is low. Mobility low. Animations quite bad.

* Crushing Ruin = Bad (Almost ok). Speed/Multihitting is low/medium. Mobility low/high (overly twitchy bursts). Animations ok.

 

* Reaping Spiral = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low. Animations good.

* Stalking Fan = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low/medium. Animations good.

 

* Decisive Judgement = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium. Mobility medium/high. Animations ok, although a bit silly sometimes (subjective)

* Tranquil Cleave = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium. Mobility low/medium. Animations have bad transitionproblems

 

* Gleaming Talon = NO FEEDBACK YET (don't have the stance)

 

* Burning Wasp = Good. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium/high (has great AoE!). Mobility low/medium. Animations good.

* Coiling Viper = Good. Speed/Multihitting is medium/high. Mobility medium/high. Animations good.

 

* Fracturing Wind = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium. Mobility low/medium. Animations are ok.

* Seismic Palm = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium. Mobility low/medium. Animations are ok (First punch has a particularly weird delay/hitbox lingering though). Combo inputs are a bit of a mess though.

 

* Grim Fury = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low/medium. Animations are ok.

* Brutal Tide = Ok. Speed/Multihitting is medium. Mobility low. Animations are smooth (although, I think some of the attacks look silly, but that is a subjective thing)

 

* Malicious Raptor = Good. Speed/Multihitting is low/medium/high. Mobility high. Animations good.

 

* Eleventh Storm = Great! Speed/Multihitting is medium/high. Mobility high. Animations good.

 

RECOMMENDATIONS / TIPS FOR THE PLAYERS:

Considering the reviews (just look at the spoiler right above!), here's my opinion/recommendations on the best/worst stances:

 

--- Best Stances ---

* Clashing Forest - If you can handle the combo inputs (blocking helps you greatly with that), then I'd say this the best stance in the game. Quick, multihitting and mobile along with good animations to boot! Aaaand, it is not overly hard to acquire either.

* Eleventh Storm - Cool-looking, additonal range with a shieldthrow, lots of multihits, free mobility, some "dashes" here and there... Serious competitor to Clashing Forest as contendor for the best stance in the game!

* Homing Fang - Very multihitting and with good dashes! Very hard to acquire though...

* Coiling Viper + Burning Wasp - These 2 whipstances are both quite nice and useful. Burning Wasp is very AoE friendly, while Coiling Viper is fast and mobile. Might be too repetitive with their few amount of combos though.

* Swirling Tiger - While maybe not the most mobile, it has one of the most multihitting combos in the game - Winding Claws. The Dancing Hunter combo, while looking silly beyond belief, at least grants some mobility to the stance.

* Malicious Raptor - Free mobility, decent multihitting and speed as well as some quite flashy moves. Overall, nothing really bad about it. Utilize combos though, as the spamcombo is not very good (a bit too "exotic" for being a spamcombo + a tad on the slow side for my taste).

 

--- Worst Stances ---

* Pointed Wind - HORRIBLY slow and immobile to boot. And this is a stance for single daggers! Very disappointing

* Gnashing Payara - Quite slow, very immobile + difficult and unrewarding combo, along with stiff and ugly animations. Also very disappointing.

Edited by Azamagon
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I agree. Even if I haven't looted transmuted all of the stances yet, most of those I have tested fail big time mobility-wise.

 

Either the combo locks you in place for the whole duration, unable to even adjust your positionning without breaking the combo, or you make sudden huge leaps all around the place with little control.

Worst part is that if you have melee auto-target on, your character will leap in place right in front of the enemy. Very weird, and much less amazing. 

And If you have melee auto-target off, well you just pray it's gonna hit something along the way while you leap behind the enemy.

 

Animations are wow, but the gameplay implications are just awful.

 

It was already one of the biggest flaws of Melee 1.0, where very few weapons allowed you to move while attacking. It is now worse: it also depends on the stance you have equiped.

 

Also to point out, regarding one of your remarks about the number of combos for each stance, that some rare stances have fewer combos than their uncommon equivalent for the same weapon grip (i.e whips, axes, sparring/kogake). 

Meanwhile, some stances only have one combo each, in both rare and uncommon stance (staves, polearms). Which could have just the same fitted in only one mod.

Baffling.

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I agree. Even if I haven't looted transmuted all of the stances yet, most of those I have tested fail big time mobility-wise.

 

Either the combo locks you in place for the whole duration, unable to even adjust your positionning without breaking the combo, or you make sudden huge leaps all around the place with little control.

Worst part is that if you have melee auto-target on, your character will leap in place right in front of the enemy. Very weird, and much less amazing. 

And If you have melee auto-target off, well you just pray it's gonna hit something along the way while you leap behind the enemy.

 

Animations are wow, but the gameplay implications are just awful.

 

It was already one of the biggest flaws of Melee 1.0, where very few weapons allowed you to move while attacking. It is now worse: it also depends on the stance you have equiped.

 

Also to point out, regarding one of your remarks about the number of combos for each stance, that some rare stances have fewer combos than their uncommon equivalent for the same weapon grip (i.e whips, axes, sparring/kogake). 

Meanwhile, some stances only have one combo each, in both rare and uncommon stance (staves, polearms). Which could have just the same fitted in only one mod.

Baffling.

Exactly! Very good summary! :)

Honestly, even if some of the combos are to remain a bit slow, if they only fixed the mobility issues, Melee 2.0 would be (mostly) fine.

 

I just can't shake off the feeling that, despite all the combos added, it actually feels like there is LESS variety than before. How come? Am I just missing chargeattacks that much? :P

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I already have the Tranquil Cleave mod, I suppose I can throw in my 2 cents.

Did all the combos standing still. No directional movements involved.

*Tested on "empty" Nikana and the Dragon variant. 

Tranquil Cleave

 

Windless Cut:

First two hits quite fast, almost like quick-melee'ing without the nikanas drawn. Third cut however, felt sluggish and slow. Most apparent being the left to right cut. 

 

Breathless Lunge:

Sort of like DmC's Trillion Stabs. 

Begin by the two initial cuts, slight pause then launches 3 stabs in quick succession. Very fast.

Although the slight pause sequence could effectively slow down the tempo, allowing the target to relocate. A maxed Fury would fix it.

But the kick that comes right after the stabbings is a wee bit slower but still on the 'fast scale', then ends with another downwards cut. This combo is effectively the easiest to chain without fail and chaining multiple Breathless Lunge combos is highly possible. Not too mobile, execution takes place doesn't stray too far from starting point. 

*Tested with Maxed Fury only, and maxed Fury + Spoiled Strike. 

 

Beyond Reproach:

It itself is slow (includes all three combos from Windless Cut), notably on the fourth cut which is an overhead head to groin cut. Taking the time to jump is slow after all. Ends in a top right to bottom left diagonal cut. Slowest combo among the rest. Not to mention, slightly difficult to execute too. Diagonal cut is rather mobile, kind of like a mini-Slash Dash.

 

Hook and Eye:

Slowest of all combos in terms of speed. But is highly mobile, moreso than Beyond Reproach's diagonal cut. Easiest to execute, wiki claims confirmed. 

 

p.s.

I've read your input on Crossing Snakes's Lacerating Leap. I feel it is probably the one with the least efforts put into. That final upwards cut is slow and bleak. Kinda feels like a combo cancelled in mid-execution. 

 

 

 

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Exactly! Very good summary! :)

Honestly, even if some of the combos are to remain a bit slow, if they only fixed the mobility issues, Melee 2.0 would be (mostly) fine.

 

I just can't shake off the feeling that, despite all the combos added, it actually feels like there is LESS variety than before. How come? Am I just missing chargeattacks that much? :P

 

Well, yes, there is less variety. Channeling does replace charge attacks in the way you build your mod setup (you build for normal attacks OR channeled attacks OR both, just like before), but doesn't add much to gameplay except for holding one button while attacking (as opposed to holding a button once in a while...)

 

Problem to me is the lack of immediate control that combos introduce. You start a combo, and have to wait till it's finished (or gets interrupted, but we don't want that) to do anything else.

 

At least with charge attacks you could chose in the moment what type of attack you were gonna deal. Immediately, for each and every swing.

You could do normal attack-->charge attack-->normal attack-->charge attack, if you wished. (You had no apparent reason to, but at least you could)

 

Now it's normal attack-->normal attack-->special attack--->oh another special attack-->and another one!!

And nothing else till it's done, rinse and repeat.

 

Absolutely no agency once the combo is started. You're on rails, you just watch your character doing amazing moves in the air. Mostly for nothing, cause everything is already killed by the first special attack.

 

So in a sense, charge attacks, gave more agency/control to the player even if you only had 2 choices for attacking.

Because even if you have the choice between multiple combos to start from, it's mitigated by the fact that you don't have control over anything else. And most of all you don't control your positionning.

 

There are 2 simple fixes I can think about to alleviate the issue.

 - Wether you make combos shorter, like [E-E-special move] but make more of them available per stance (4 would be ideal, 1 per mod rank)

 

 - Or you completly dissociate special moves from combos.

There are multiple simple input combinations completly disregarded in the game, that could be used to make those special moves available to use at any time. 

We've seen [E+block], or [E+forward/back] used inside combos, or even [Hold E] (just like the old charge attack, isn't it?)

I'm not even mentionning [Pause+E]...no words can describe how awful that is. It's just plain stupid to have to pause in the middle of a combo.

 

What about [Crouch+E]? it has no purpose at all in the game at the moment.  

And [Run+E]? Why isn't there a special move when you melee while running? A la Skyrim? A fast, forward movement, like a front dash/leap, used to close small gaps. That could alleviate the movement issue. And some of those attacks already exist within combos.

Same principle, [dodge+E], a roll move followed by a low thrust. 

 

And the purpose would be, reminding me of one of Geoff's first iteration of the melee 2.0 design, that you could freely, fluidly, chain each of these attacks to make your own combo. With basic E-smashing as a filler.

 

Instead of trying to build a combo system out of thin air, use the basic melee moves already in the game like slide attack, jump attack, etc, and expend on their variety. That's part of what the animation team did when you look at it: they used some of the preexisting animations, incorporated them into the combos, and added more.

But the final design cemented them into an inseparable whole, instead of multiple single parts the player could use at will.

 

Pity.

Edited by Thelonious
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  • 2 weeks later...

Bump, due to many additions! Added reviews for:

 

Single Daggers - Homing Fang

Single Daggers - Pointed Wind

Dual Daggers - Sinking Talon

Dual Daggers - Gnashing Payara

Staves - Clashing Forest's new combo (Resolute Flurry)

Polearms - Bleeding Willow

Axes & Greatswords - Cleaving Whirlwind

Hammer - Shattering Storm

Scythes - Reaping Spiral (including the new combo Eternal Nocturne of course)

Nikana - Decisive Judgement

Whips - Coiling Viper

Fists&Kicks - Grim Fury

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  • 3 weeks later...

Updated further!

 

New stances added:

Staves - Flailing Branch

Scythes - Stalking Fan

 

Also added comments on the new combos which were added to:

Gauntlets - Fracturing Wind

Gauntlets - Seismic Palm

Dual Swords - Swirling Tiger

Dual Swords - Crossing Snakes

Nikanas - Decisive Judgement

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Updated again!

 

Added:

 

Fists&Kicks - Brutal Tide

Nikana - Tranquil Cleave

 

As well as:

 

Quick overall verdicts (in the last post)

Quick stance verdicts (in the last post)

Stance recommendations/tips for the players (in the last post)

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  • 1 month later...

Updated some words so it hopefully is easier to understand (Using Gunmode and Meleemode instead of my old words using Unequipped or Equipped)

Updated Whips feedback

 

Added:

 

Claws - All stuff, except for the stancestuff (don't have it yet!)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Updated a bunch of things:

 

The new wallattacks for

* Scythes

* Axes and Greatswords

* Staves

* Claws

 

The new weapontype Shield and Sword as well as its stance, 11th Storm!

 

New comments for Malicious Raptor (some suggestions how to tweak its combos a bit)

 

And also updates to the "Quick Stance Verdicts" section and the "Recommendations/tips for the players" section

 

 

Now for a question:

If anyone wants me too, would you like my review on Hysteria's new combos? I haven't done all too thorough testing yet, but some quick thoughts:

* The attacks look great, but are still too restricting in movement (almost completely unable to steer during the combos)

* The slideattack is a frenzied storm of awesomeness! Best part of Hysteria now, imo.

Edited by Azamagon
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