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[DE]Rebecca

Dark Sectors Today & Moving Forward

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>> Use the Dojo building (with UI improvements) to make the gameplay spaces players attack (ala Dungeon Keeper) to increase variety and fun.

I hope this means we get some love for the Dojo room placement interface with that. Adding / editing rooms and decorations is a chore.

 

>> -Faction invasions of Dark Sectors to widen the conflict.

That would have made sense from the start, going to be curious how it will turn out.

 

>> New game mode, potentially with vs. to make it more interesting and challenging to play contested sectors.

Trying to not powerfrown, trying to not powerfrown, trying to n-...

8 |

*reads further, coming to; *

 

>> Some Lore and "ritualization" of all of these conflicts to address some of the 'Why are Tenno fighting Tenno'... expanding on Tenno as Warrior culture and making it easier for people to accept the cultural ramifications of this game mode.

I'm very, very, very looking forward to that and hold my horses until then.

 

>> These Dark Sectors will become the Frontier when the new faction invades (dramatic music).

*sighs, forces a smile* Well done, DE

 

*throws several pages of text, and several sound+video WIPs into the trash can*

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Well, just did a DS conflict fight and...

 

 

- Posted Battle pay of 2k on launch, received 0 on completion.  Stated Battle pay was now set to 0.

 

- Solar Rail in conflict for over 40 hours.

 

WTF DE???

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the simulacrum thing is going to utterly break everything, especially if everybody just equips zephyr with turbulence and marelok

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The downtime should actually be some sort of game mechanic where players can influence how long it lasts.

Cause i think most of the folks complaining about DS not being available are players that are never going to touch this system and just want to pop in for the rewards. With a set time they are not going to care about who wins or losses so there is little reason to help any side.

 

The downtime should be based on the health or the rail plus the amount of people that helped the winning side. Something like that.

Mak, I'm sorry to sound so rude but you need to read. Look at the armistice section. They're doing exactly. What. You. Said. If you're going to make input please don't make it already answered input ;) less stuff for DE to wade through

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as there is no reason as of yet to be competitive. The rewards are as anemic as the entire concept itself. To me, the Dark Sectors are basically space billboards for clan advertising- only people do not care who owns the DS. They only care about getting their bonus XP- since that is the ONLY reward of the DS.

as it should be in a PvE game focussed on co-opration.

 

 

Don't want this community to encourage pvp, and I don't want competitiveness becoming a major part of the community's mindset. I came here a year ago to avoid exactly these things.

 

 

If it's coming, I'm going.

 

Edit: case in point - this is the kind of player you will be attracting in droves if you stay on this path:

 

To the people crying. Get better at PvP.

Edited by AuroraSonicBoom
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Mak, I'm sorry to sound so rude but you need to read. Look at the armistice section. They're doing exactly. What. You. Said. If you're going to make input please don't make it already answered input ;) less stuff for DE to wade through

 

Im saying that the down time should just be a game mechanic and not include any guarantee minimum time. 

If you can reach up to 3 days of peace there is really no reason to have a minimum time.

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OMG - A DUNGEON KEEPER  reference?? How cool is that?? I owned and love that classic!!

 

I love Dungeon Keeper.

 

Basically, DK is some sort of PvE Tower defense where traps can be set, doors locked and monsters set... sooo *thinks*

Either we will be able to build traps in our dojos OR a rail owner will be able to customize his rail.

Or my thoughts are all wrong, and we will be able to spawn MOA and maybe even control them.

 

This is maybe the thing some people here call it "Proxy War"?

 

-Rail strategies in the from of types (nuke rail, as destabilizing force), as well as strength/weakness rail types to create some strategy in the planning and deployment phase.

-Troop preparation mechanics based on the rail strength/weakness you're attacking.

-Some amount of tactical responsiveness at rail level when being attacked (accessories you can build for your rail and deploy to bolster).

 

Means we can attack a rail on a different way, like sending a nuke to one or the other.

Going Brute Force now? :D

 

-Tenno Specter enhancements as well as the potential for individuals to build a 'simulacrum' object that captures their current load out and then is available by tacticians to deploy as Specters in a specific tower.

 

Imagine a Nova or Zephyr Spectre running around with a 10k DMG Penta or 30k Soma / Dread... Hardcore Mode enabled.

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The reward system needs to be reworked as well.

1.  Awards need to be locked in, right from the start.  If you contribute 7.5 million credits, then each of the 7,500 runs pays 1,000 credits.  No changing it as time goes on.  If you look at what is happening on Hieracon (Pluto) right now, you'll see why this is necessary.  Both sides of the conflict are pulling what amounts to a bait and switch, offering a decent credit reward but only for a small number of runs.  End result, a bunch of people try to get the reward and most make 0 credits.  It would also force a clan to gamble a bit ahead of time, since they don't know what their opposition is offering.

 

2.  It would be nice if other things could be chucked into the reward pool.  Resources, formas, mods, whatever.  Give out even amounts where possible.  If the alliance puts in 7.5m nanospores, that's 1000 a run.  If they put in 7.6m, that's 1013 for two runs, then 1014 for the third.  And if they put in something like 2 forma blueprints, that's a 1/3750 chance of getting it when there's 7500 runs to go.  And if there's 1 left on the last run, a 1/1 chance of getting it.

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Inclusion of any sort of PVP beyond "novelty value" in dueling / Conclave will bring along a whole new can of balance concerns, that will inevitably bleed into other aspects of the game. I didn't join up to Warframe to do PVP. Please don't make this a new focus. There are gazillions of PVP shooters out there already.

Words cannot express how much i agree with this. Open PvP will Ruin the greatness that Warframe has become. The Conclaves were bad enough, but you can just avoid those. With the Dark Sectors coming in, PvP will be unavoidable.

First it was "No PvP, Ever. This is not what Warframe is supposed to be"

Then it was "PvP in the Dojo only, just for fun"

Then, "PvP in Conclaves on the Map, with heavy restrictions" ...Ok, stop there.

Next it will be Open PvP on Dark Sectors.

And finally it will escalate into Clans invading each other, Tenno vs Tenno on all Invasions.

Then comes the death of one of the most amazing games to ever be produced. Rest In Peace.

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Oh look the interest in Solar Rails....aaaand its gone.

 

You guys went pretty far in saying "Badlands / Solar Rails won't be about PVP". You should keep your word on that, it's a PVE game remember?

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One more time, really happy to read that you still listen to community feedback on some serious issues, and go back to the work table to improve the badlands :)

I hope you had done the same for damage 2.0, and the recent melee 2.0.

 

Thanks Reb and DE Staff ;)

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I'm glad they've finally put some sort of a cooldown on these Dark Sectors. The conflict is fun to run, once or twice, but they last way too long and it's such a pain. I think they really should be short enough that the one single clan/alliance can beat the rail; as in, if your clanlliance puts down a rail, then anyone can fight for it, but your group should be able to do it on their own.

 

 

Also, as for PvP, I know a lot of people throw little hissy fits when it gets brought up, but here's the thing; this game has no end-game content. The only next logical step is PvP of some sort. It just needs to be separate from the rest of the content, not required, and heavily tweaked. Maybe, make it so you can only use unranked mods in there, so no one is ridiculously OP.

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And finally it will escalate into Clans invading each other, Tenno vs Tenno on all Invasions.

 

It's been pretty much confirmed in today's livestream that Steve like this idea alot, so you can bet your bum that this is where it will lead to.

 

Also, you forgot those steps: "Comparable match rewards for playing pvp", and after that "better and/or unique rewards for pvp matches"

 

You know it's coming.

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Also, as for PvP, I know a lot of people throw little hissy fits when it gets brought up, but here's the thing; this game has no end-game content. The only next logical step is PvP of some sort. It just needs to be separate from the rest of the content, not required, and heavily tweaked. Maybe, make it so you can only use unranked mods in there, so no one is ridiculously OP.

For one, the CURRENT endgame for warframe is lacking. This doesn't mean there is never going to be any.

Second, I'm not an avid PvP player BUT I would certainly dabble in it, IF it is well done. That is why I enjoyed PvP in Guild Wars 2 a lot since... well... years, to be honest. It entirely depends how they pull it off, how much they throw balance out of the window, how much they are going to split pve and pvp, etc.

It will make or break the game depending on how they implement it. We have Conclaves, so there is me hoping there might be some way to keep these "leagues". But there are various other issues, and without going into detail on any of them; there are as many good ways to implement pvp into Warframe as there are bad ways.

 

The only thing I hope, is that Warframe is not going to become another of those "We'll expand on pvp at the expense of PvE because that is what the vocal minority demands." Many people flocked to Warframe because there was no (mandatory) pvp branch. It beckons the question if one is willing to sacrifice parts of their playerbase in order to potentially get new players in.

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Ahh that new faction that you have yet to even tell the design council about , right, right ...

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This whole topic (and my post obviously) seems greatly relevant (also I do not wish to write it anew):

Looking at the current dark sectors/rail system mechanic, I must agree that what you have lined up here is much more interesting (and provides motivation, if out of necessity) but I must admit that it would crush the game. Yes, it would give a use to the alliances, it would provide a much more complex and deep mechanic than the current one. The problem comes from the fact that many, many, many players couldn't care less, they just want to play a bit. So if a world is lost/cannot be accessed and they have to wait... they will find another game, pretty soon.

I like this game but if I'm dependant on some unknown alliance or clan to access part of the game... people were already angry when they couldn't play dark sector missions because of conflicts. And then they even had the opportunity to actually participate and play in those conflicts, what if, without a rail, they can't even play on their favourite maps?

 

The idea is very good, as I've mentioned previously, nearly everything in this patch is more like a scaffolding to something bigger. The combo system is so shallow you can easily hurt yourself if you jump into it (combos like EEEEE ??? are we in kindergarten so that we can differentiate 2 or 3 buttons so we need to smash a single one? best vid evar on this:

), and among others, so is this pvp-ish, pve invasion/conflict... thingie. It can be something big and awesome but if it forces things on players, especially on those that do not wish to participate, it may bring (much) more dismay than fun.

 

DE mentioned they want to implement HUBs, mostly for planets and so the player will have to travel to a planet first before doing missions there. On a similar principle I would do the following:

- New sectors, maybe new solar systems but maybe better to plain introduce small areas with only a few or just 1 planet and a few maps (call these dark sectors if you want).

- First way to access a sector is free of charge but you have to fight through an enemy territory, maybe 3 missions that take place on grineer/corpus/infested/derelict ships. You don't have to do them in one go, but when you do the third one, you successfully travelled to the new sector. To go back you have to fight your way back again (or toward another sector, etc).

- Second way to access a sector is through a clan/alliance owned rail which takes you there instantly but while you do missions in that sector, % of your income (credits and resources) go to the owner of the rail. There is a minimum tax, always, no 0% allowed.

- If you go to another sector, you will either not pay anything (go through enemy territory) or pay to the owner of the rail that gets you there, the previous contract ends.

- Home sector (Sol system) has no tax.

- If a rail changes owner while you are in the sector, your contract ends (you have no connection to the new owner after all) so it's a happy thing if someone takes out your contractor while you are active in that sector.

- A clan/alliance can issue battlepay to those that help them in their conflict, in the form of % bonuses to their rewards in the area.

 

Battlepay:

- The owner of the rail wishes to issue a battlepay for those that aid them in the conflict, so they open up the battlepay configuration tab (a simple button that is present when you attack a rail or get attacked).

- They add a 5% xp bonus and a 5% rare resource drop chance bonus.

- They set the number of required missions done in their favor to 6 (so you have to do 6 missions more towards them to earn this pay than to their enemies).

- The panel allevates the necessary resources as 700 000 credits and 200 000 nano spores.

- The clan/alliance pays for this from their vaults (thus the treasury must allow any kind of resources to be donated to the clan and even alliance vaults!).

- The clan/alliance only pays once and this battlepay stays in effect till the end of conflict or till it's ordered to be changed by the owner.

- New battlepay can be added any time but you have to pay for it. If the added pay-type is present (like you want 10% xp but you already have 5% xp bonus), you have to pay full cost of it, not just for the difference in rates. You cannot change rates to lower than how they are.

- The battlepays are active during the conflict, so the conflict missions always launch with the bonuses of the side the player chooses to... side with.

- When a side loses, those supporting them will not gain the battlepays on the sector's missions.

- When a side wins the conflict the players that supported them will retain their battlepay bonuses during any mission they play in the sector (even if they leave and come back). If there were changes (added bonuses) to the battlepay later on, the players get the full battlepay, not just the amount they were originally offered when they've completed their part.

- The effects of the battlepay stay in effect whenever the player does missions in the area, as long as the owner doesn't lose control over the rail (even if they get the control back later, the bonuses do not return). If the rail is attacked but they retain ownership nothing changes. If the player in question helps them this second time too, they retain the previous bonuses and gain the new battlepay too! That way you have to decide: help the owner and hoard more % bonuses or become their downfall and have no tax active on you while you stay in the sector (till your next leave).

- Worth mentioning that the battlepay is active for anyone helping the clan/alliance in the conflict, including the members of that clan/alliance. So not just that you gain stuff from doing this but with enough resources you can even help yourself do these mission easily (like a weapon % dmg bonus as battlepay).

 

How do you like it this way? I know it might be too much on the "in-between" but... this way players that do not wish to partake in conflict missions can play all the sectors without problem (though traveling takes time since you have to do X missions, hopefully challenging ones, since we are talking about borders, and borders are usually defended) while those interested are offered a way to travel fast and maybe even gain very very very nice bonuses.

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It's been pretty much confirmed in today's livestream that Steve like this idea alot, so you can bet your bum that this is where it will lead to.

 

Also, you forgot those steps: "Comparable match rewards for playing pvp", and after that "better and/or unique rewards for pvp matches"

 

You know it's coming.

 

Just why do we have to fight in PvP for unique rewards? I could understand the Founder Program, but definitely NOT this.

If this happens, then I can bet anything that Warframe will not be a PvE game anymore. Too bad.

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