Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

So Progression Is Rng Based


KidCinema
 Share

Recommended Posts

I mean.. entirely. Everything but your frame's shields/health/power is stuck at level one until you find a mod to put on it. And even those stats are lackluster without mods.

 

I never realized how big of a problem this was until I started playing warframe ps4.  It's awful. 20+ hours and I'm stuck on the first interception on earth because, well, I just don't have the mods to survive. No serration- just hornet strike and hell's charge (which don't make the ak/lato and lex any less S#&$ty).  I can't even build a new primary (other than braton, but that's a given; vanilla Mk1 wouldn't have gotten me past mercury) because I can't get the materials I need between mercury and earth.

 

This is why I can't get my friends to play warframe.

This is why I don't want to play warframe ps4. S#&$, I have 300+ hours on pc. I love this game. But I simply can't play. I do nothing but farm appolodrus 30+ minutes at a time. No serration. No sensible mods for frame, not nearly enough fusion cores to level anything to an acceptable point. At 20+ hours? That's bullS#&$.

 

This RNG crutch needs to go. Have weapons'/frames' damage increase with level, or something. I should have something to show for 20+ hours and levelling all of my weapons and frames to 30, but I don't. Because RNG.

Nothing wrong with a little farming, a little RNG; but having your ability to progress decided entirely by RNG? That's.. I mean.. what the F***, man?

 

Disclaimer: I do not want your help beating xyz, I do not want your trades. I'm doing this on my own because I honestly am curious to see how long this 1+ year old beta that offers $200+ packages is going to keep me from progressing.

 

tl;dr RNG wat the fuk men

Edited by KidCinema
Link to comment
Share on other sites

another random post from someone that think you can't get any damage without serration and still doesnt get that you're not supposed to do interceptions alone

And another response from someone that thinks he knows everything.

 

1. How's my braton gonna get more damage without any damage mods? Hm, oh wise one?

2. I don't do them alone. But I'm paired with people going through the same struggle I am- or maybe one decent player which is not enough to carry a team in interception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is part of why the entire weapon mod system needs to be reworked.  Mods need to have less of an impact on damage, so that the base stats of weapons can be higher, making them easier to use right out the box (and sans catalyst).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds to me like you googled an XP guide or got some advice for XP thinking this was WoW and a higher level would let you pwn everything, but now all you've done is farm one mission in one system vs part of one faction for most of your play time, and so your mod selection is terrible.

 

You're kind of being angry and pointed about it, but it's not invalid feedback. We've needed New Player Experience 2.0 for a long time, but there are a lot of other systems that haven't been put in yet or that have only just been put in. They need to do that stuff first before they can redo the tutorial and first system to teach and intro all of it.

 

The heart of why RNG is used is because LUCKY is good, and UNLUCKY can be fixed with balance, multiple sources of progression, trading and numerous other ways to let a person avoid leaning on one dice roll. Even giving them LOTS of dice rolls is better. Law of large numbers and all that. If you've been exceptionally unlucky, ask around in Region and see if anyone will hook you up with unranked mods. Even playing on only a few missions, you should still have tons of cores and duplicates that you can use to fusion and catch up some.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is part of why the entire weapon mod system needs to be reworked.  Mods need to have less of an impact on damage, so that the base stats of weapons can be higher, making them easier to use right out the box (and sans catalyst).

 

No.

 

The Lato and MK1-Braton use the same mods as the Boltor Prime. As mods get stronger you get variety if the weapons aren't too different, but as weapons get stronger and stonger, not only is this power creep in the sense that they're better than old weapons, it's also power creep in the sense that those higher base numbers are modded by the same percentages, so your gear gap gets wider and wider and your selection of useful, viable weapons gets smaller and smaller. 

 

Weapons need to be SMALL increases, and mods need to be what separates them and improves them, so that we maintain a variety of weapons instead of the top 3-5 being the only things anyone uses.

 

Mods need to be the core of progression, but that progression should be based on seeking things to fusion and combine. Getting the actual mods themselves should not be as hard as it is now. That's what needs fixing IMO. Core mods like Serration or Vitality need to be given away at the start. Basics like elemental damage should not be too hard IMO.

Edited by VKhaun
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Serration drops from Grineer Scorpions - go to Appolodorus
Vitality drops from pretty much everything on Mercury and Venus, and will do untill you find your Redirection.

 

Your argument is invalid. Just stick to Appolodorus for a little bit longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds to me like you googled an XP guide or got some advice for XP thinking this was WoW and a higher level would let you pwn everything, but now all you've done is farm one mission in one system vs part of one faction for most of your play time, and so your mod selection is terrible.

 

You're kind of being angry and pointed about it, but it's not invalid feedback. We've needed New Player Experience 2.0 for a long time, but there are a lot of other systems that haven't been put in yet or that have only just been put in. They need to do that stuff first before they can redo the tutorial and first system to teach and intro all of it.

 

The heart of why RNG is used is because LUCKY is good, and UNLUCKY can be fixed with balance, multiple sources of progression, trading and numerous other ways to let a person avoid leaning on one dice roll. Even giving them LOTS of dice rolls is better. Law of large numbers and all that. If you've been exceptionally unlucky, ask around in Region and see if anyone will hook you up with unranked mods. Even playing on only a few missions, you should still have tons of cores and duplicates that you can use to fusion and catch up some.

Well.. Yes, and no.

Like I mentioned, I have 300+ hours on warframe pc. That may not be the highest playtime out there, but it's certainly long enough to say I know what I'm doing. 

I progressed as far as I possibly could- the first interception on earth. A straight playthrough yielded me pointstrike, eagle eye, and untold amounts of fasthands and vitalities. At that point, relying on headshots and that 20% crit on 18 damage wasn't doing it, so I started farming. I farmed defenses and survivals on every planet, for 8 of those 20 hours, and I've come up with one hornet strike, one hell's charge and a speed trigger.  The other 10 or so I stayed on appolodrus because I was told repeatedly that that's where I could get a serration (the pistol mods didnt matter, even with rank 4 hornet strike and rank 3 hell's charge, braton is still better than lato/lex)

 

I do not have tons of cores. That's the point I'm trying to make. There is no balance for those that are unlucky, if you're unlucky you're just screwed. And my warframe ps4 account seems to have the worst luck. I've gotten maybe 20 cores (rank 1/3 mostly, the highest i've gotten is 1/5 rare). And since mod drops is the only way I can progress, what am I supposed to do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Serration drops from Grineer Scorpions - go to Appolodorus

Vitality drops from pretty much everything on Mercury and Venus, and will do untill you find your Redirection.

 

Your argument is invalid. Just stick to Appolodorus for a little bit longer.

...Did you not read nothing but appolodorus? 3/4 of my time playing this game was spent in appolodorus. No serration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do not have to use cores, besides. You can as well level your Serration with those tons of Vitalities you gathered.

 

And there are lots of early access weapons that you can get after Braton - Boltor, Latron, Karak, whatever grinds your gears.

 

AND there is also a thing that most players seems to forget about. Community. You don't have to run everything with PUGs, just go to Recruitment, het 2 Novas and Rhino, and voila! Interception is completing itself.

 

...Did you not read nothing but appolodorus? 3/4 of my time playing this game was spent in appolodorus. No serration.

Grind more. Simple as that.

Or ask people, I'm sure, that somebody will give it to you, even for free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. How's my braton gonna get more damage without any damage mods? Hm, oh wise one?

 

you could change other parameters that affect dps like rate of fire (think that was the first mod i got ever) or critical hit, or better yet you could add elements they're painfully common and can be grouped to hurt more certain enemies (like radiation for those heavy grineers) or to get effects (like cold's slow) or you can come crying to the forum so we can laugh.

 

2. I don't do them alone. But I'm paired with people going through the same struggle I am- or maybe one decent player which is not enough to carry a team in interception.

so now its because you can't get good teammates? you can get a team in the recruit chat channel really easy, but wait who told he didn't want any help?

 

Disclaimer: I do not want your help beating xyz, I do not want your trades. I'm doing this on my own

 

oh yeah it was you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I mentioned, I have 300+ hours on warframe pc. 

 

The other 10 or so I stayed on appolodrus 

 

...Did you not read nothing but appolodorus? 3/4 of my time playing this game was spent in appolodorus. No serration.

Point taken. You feel you're not progressing fast enough.

 

What are you supposed to do? Stop writing off everyone trying to help you and come back when your temper tantrum is over. Then ask in Region for someone to help you out with basic mods, then play whatever you enjoy that you can handle and let the mods come to you. "Progression" means progression, not run the whole star chart one after another and go straight to the best gear and max rank mods.

 

I'm Rank 15 with every weapon in the game except Brakk and a few events I missed, I reset my account once, I made two new accounts to try the new player experience after changes, and I still have mods I haven't maxed out.

Edited by Letter13
Let's try not to be disrespectful
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Y-snip-

Didn't get that many. I could maybe level it twice.

I can't get those. The resources aren't available between mercury and earth.

Community on ps4? Please. Besides, if I can't get past the third (still newbie) planet in pubs, there's something wrong.

Grinding more is exactly what I'm doing. 20+ hours. The fact that I still (try to) play this game is uncanny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you could change other parameters that affect dps like rate of fire (think that was the first mod i got ever) or critical hit, or better yet you could add elements they're painfully common and can be grouped to hurt more certain enemies (like radiation for those heavy grineers) or to get effects (like cold's slow) or you can come crying to the forum so we can laugh.

 

so now its because you can't get good teammates? you can get a team in the recruit chat channel really easy, but wait who told he didn't want any help?

 

 

oh yeah it was you

I've already said that the only elemental mod I've gotten was hell's charge, and not many cores to level it with. Same with speed trigger. And no vital sense.

I don't want to seek help from some high-powered player to complete a newbie mission. I shouldn't have to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much.  The new player experience is worse than ever, and DE refuses to do anything about it.  Buffing starter gear?  Naw.  You can always buy better weapons with plat!

 

And people say the Mk1 is fine.  It's like DE doesn't even play their own game, or talk to their QA people.  Do they even have QA people?  On Prime Time they're always using "endgame gear" like primes, fully modded, with infinite platinum and credits.

 

It's no surprise they're so out of touch with how the game actually plays.

 

Oh, but excuse me, I'm just being lazy and greedy because I don't want to have to work in a game I play to have fun in.  Silly me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disclaimer: I do not want your help beating xyz, I do not want your trades. I'm doing this on my own because I honestly am curious to see how long this 1+ year old beta that offers $200+ packages is going to keep me from progressing.

 

tl;dr RNG wat the fuk men

 

The core of RNG is that some get lucky and some get unlucky, but you can FIX unlucky with game mechanics.

 

If you're writing off all co-op and trading in an online-only RNG game, that's kind of your own fault. DE may need to adjust drop rates, sure, but no reasonable drop rate is going to seem reasonable to someone with that attitude. There's always going to be something you can't find, or you're going to find everything but one or two things that will feel like a grind as all other rewards are wasted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've already said that the only elemental mod I've gotten was hell's charge, and not many cores to level it with. Same with speed trigger. And no vital sense.

I don't want to seek help from some high-powered player to complete a newbie mission. I shouldn't have to.

you can fusion with  duplicates or other mods and you "cant get em to top right away" because you're not supposed to. But you gotta start somewhere.

 

and don't worry about asking help is only that game mode that's hard as F***, they even discussed that in a dev stream, and the only reason i can think of why would they leave that as required missions is to force you to get help from the community.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point taken. You feel you're not progressing fast enough.

 

What are you supposed to do? Stop writing off everyone trying to help you and come back when your temper tantrum is over. Then ask in Region for someone to help you out with basic mods, then play whatever you enjoy that you can handle and let the mods come to you. "Progression" means progression, not run the whole star chart one after another and go straight to the best gear and max rank mods.

 

I'm Rank 15 with every weapon in the game except Brakk and a few events I missed, I reset my account once, I made two new accounts to try the new player experience after changes, and I still have mods I haven't maxed out.

Okay, there's some miscommunication here.

Not trying to argue, not throwing a tantrum. First of all, I'm a pc player. 300+ hours on pc (may have it 400 now), got a ps4 a few months ago and booted up warframe ps4. played as far as I could without farming, all of one or two hours. started doing defenses and survivals for a couple hours(different planets), until I realized I just couldn't survive (or do satisfying damage) in these missions past 5 minutes/waves outside of mercury. Got a couple crappy mods, took those to appolodorus (as I was told to by many), I'm at 20 or so hours now and I still have nothing to show for it but more vitalities and some weak cores. I do have Dex Furis now, thank god, but with my low rank hornet strike/hell's charge and not nearly enough cores to level them, I'm still not doing much.

My efforts/shortcomings aside, shouldn't I feel at least a bit more powerful than 16 dps at 20 hours? Shouldn't my effort aid my progression in spite of my bad luck?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What bothers me is that leveling a weapon serves no purpose in this game other than to increase your mod capacity. Why is this? Why can't it be more like warframes where the stats increase(though a power damage increase in certain level ups would be nice as well.)? On top of that, have the mods there, but limit how much power they have so leveling your weapons is more important than slapping a mod on, but not too much so mods can still be important.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean.. entirely. Everything but your frame's shields/health/power is stuck at level one until you find a mod to put on it. And even those stats are lackluster without mods.

 

I never realized how big of a problem this was until I started playing warframe ps4.  It's awful. 20+ hours and I'm stuck on the first interception on earth because, well, I just don't have the mods to survive. No serration- just hornet strike and hell's charge (which don't make the ak/lato and lex any less S#&$ty).  I can't even build a new primary (other than braton, but that's a given; vanilla Mk1 wouldn't have gotten me past mercury) because I can't get the materials I need between mercury and earth.

 

This is why I can't get my friends to play warframe.

This is why I don't want to play warframe ps4. S#&$, I have 300+ hours on pc. I love this game. But I simply can't play. I do nothing but farm appolodrus 30+ minutes at a time. No serration. No sensible mods for frame, not nearly enough fusion cores to level anything to an acceptable point. At 20+ hours? That's bullS#&$.

 

This RNG crutch needs to go. Have weapons'/frames' damage increase with level, or something. I should have something to show for 20+ hours and levelling all of my weapons and frames to 30, but I don't. Because RNG.

Nothing wrong with a little farming, a little RNG; but having your ability to progress decided entirely by RNG? That's.. I mean.. what the F***, man?

 

Disclaimer: I do not want your help beating xyz, I do not want your trades. I'm doing this on my own because I honestly am curious to see how long this 1+ year old beta that offers $200+ packages is going to keep me from progressing.

 

tl;dr RNG wat the fuk men

When I started playing, pre damage 2.0..... Well, you can say I had no good mods until I reached jupiter.

 

I didn't even get a serration until LONG after Damage 2.0

 

Do defense missions on Mercury, serrations appear fairly often there if I remember correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You think the RNG is bad now? Wait until they start stacking RNG on top of RNG.

 

Three runs at Vay Hek. Three Chasis. Thanks DE.

 

Remember, Warframe isn't about actually accomplishing things. It's about hanging around long enough to roll the dice enough times to have a chance of rolling the other set of dice to possibly get what you want.

Edited by Kiteless
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it isnt and every other mmo out there has way harsher rng based progression.

 

Soma is on the market, join a clan and get the marelok, start with loki and voila end game for you.

 

Never saw a community complain as much as this one over stupid things like this, go play the game.

 

edit: Before even leaving mars  i played dozens and dozens of 15min + apollodorus back in u10, it just seemed the right thing to do, i mean, exp was coming left and right and so were mods? Why stop then?

 

Now, if you tell me grind is needed to progress then i'll give it to you, but then again, grinding has always been part of the fun and literally just part of every mmo and games with rpg mechanics out there, such as this one.

Edited by (PS4)DanteVincent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. Enough white-knighting already. The new-player experience DOES suck. Warframe has issues, and this is a huge one of them. And this thread is from a guy who already knew how to play the game. How many truly new players do you think are just quitting when they get to these roadblocks?

 

It's a lot less new-player friendly than it was when I started, back during update 8 or so. You know how I know this? Because when I was a new player, during my first couple hundred hours or so I got my "core" mods ranked up to at least rank 5 or 6 using nothing but duplicates. That's how frequently they dropped. That was before they implemented "mods 2.0" and mod drops were random, and you could get most mods just about anywhere. Now, Hornet Strike drops only from Toxic Ancients or in the void. Serration drops only from the void or Grineer Scorpions, which aren't exactly the most common Grineer enemy. So new players are stuck with no damage from their secondary, until they can get the chance to fight mid-level infested or get into the void. That's damn near criminal.

 

And yeah, the mod system does need to change. The power gap between stock and maxed mods is way too big. Nearly all secondary weapons and a few rifles can do up to seventy or seventy-five times their stock DPS when fully modded. That's completely ridiculous. "Core" mods really shouldn't exist, because in this context, "core" is just another word for "mandatory", which means it's a mod you really don't have a choice about using, unless you want to intentionally gimp yourself. Mods should be about flexibility, not just pure power increases. But instead, for any given weapon vs any given enemy, at least five or six of the mods you'll use are basically predetermined because anything else is just sub-par. You may choose to drop higher DPS mod or two to pick up something like punch-through or faster reload, but otherwise, your build will be exactly like everyone else's, assuming you have the resources to do it. That's just sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...