[Trinity] Reworking Powers, Not Nerfing Them.

[holyicon]

Previously: [Trinity] The Least Nerfy Rework You Will Ever Read

 

I've been playing Warframe since the Open Beta launch. Trinity was the first frame I unlocked and she has remained my favorite frame ever since.

That being said, I understand the complaints leveled against her by the community. I have (over time and 5 forma) adapted my play-style to be (A:) More kitchen support since the Well/Vampire changes and (B:) Not Blessing dependent so that the game does not become a cake-walk.

 

The idea here is to curtail abuse without radically changing the play-style of ... more legitimate players.

 

The following suggestions tweak all of her skills, addressing some old and new issues, hopefully balancing Trinity within the current mechanical environment and possibly the lore as a Medic/Vet.

 

-[ 1 ]- "Energy Pulse"

Energy: 25.
Target: Enemy in aim.

Duration: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 seconds.

Effect:

- On cast ~> Target gets 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 Pulse Counters.
- Target is stunned.
- Every 4 seconds:

  + Remove a Pulse Counter from target

  + Target emits a pulse restoring 25 energy to any ally Tenno within 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 meters.
- If Target dies, for each remaining counter:

  + Target emits a pulse restoring 15 energy to any ally Tenno within 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 meters.

- This effect may not stack on the same Target.

- This ability is cast instantly but has a 1sec channel and an 8sec cooldown.

 

-[ 2 ]- "Well of Life"

Energy: 50.
Target: Ally Tenno in aim. (or Self if no)

Duration: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 seconds.

Effect:

- On cast ~> Target and target's pet restore 50% / 60% / 70% / 80% health. (pet is revived if dead)

- Target's actions do not cost stamina.

- This effect replaces any matching effects on the same target.

- This ability is cast instantly but has a 1sec channel and an 8sec cooldown.

 

-[ 3 ]- "Blessing"

Energy: 75.
Target: Ally Tenno Cell and Pets.

Duration: 8 / 10 / 12 / 14 seconds.

Effect:
- Each target restores 50% / 60% / 70% / 80% health. (pets are NOT revived if dead)
- Each target gets an Overshield that absorbs the next 200 / 400 / 600 / 800 damage.

- Targets' actions cost half their normal stamina.

- This effect may not stack on the same target.

- This ability is cast instantly but has a 2sec channel and may not be recast unti the effect wears off.

 

-[ 4 ]- "Link"

Energy: 100
Target: Self.

Duration: 14 / 16 / 18 / 20 seconds.

Effect:

- Prevents CCs and 75% / 80% / 85% / 90% damage to Trinity.

- Prevented Damage is reflected to up to 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 enemies within 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 meters
- Prevented CCs are reflected to up to 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 enemies within 6 / 9 / 12 / 15 meters.
- Trinity's move speed is reduced by 20%. (be warned, this is affected by mods)

- This effect does not reflect any damage the Trinity does to herself.

- This ability is cast instantly but has a 2sec channel and may not be recast unti the effect wears off.

 

 

I hope these tweaks meet with some approval, but I will respect your disagreements if they are in the form of a reasoned discussion. Like, include an example of how the power could be exploited (more so than it is now).

 

Edits:

Swapped around Link and Blessing, Made Blessing more in-line with Rhino's "2" and Oberon's "3" skills.
Made "Link" more in-line with Valkyr's "4" skill.

Trinity's skills are once again affected by Power Strength and Duration.

Thanks to everyone who's duscussed this post with me and sent PMs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As always, have fun out there, be kind to each other, but equally mean to those that oppose the Tenno!
 - holyicon

P.S. PANTS!

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2014 by holyicon

[immolator1001]

Yes!

[Kurtys]

How long does your version of Link last ? I think you forgot it, or i didn't understand how it works.

[notionphil]

So she's still perma invincible with link but can "only" make the team 75% invincible for ~30 seconds at a time?

I dunno that still seems like it would totally trivialize....all content.

[holyicon]

How long does your version of Link last ? I think you forgot it, or i didn't understand how it works.

Yeah good point. I'll have to edit that in.

Edit: also durations more clear overall.

Edited April 26, 2014 by holyicon

[Zachles]

Not sure I'm going to like her after they get finished with her. :/

[Oishii]

So she's still perma invincible with link but can "only" make the team 75% invincible for ~30 seconds at a time?

I dunno that still seems like it would totally trivialize....all content.

Yeah.... seems like a still broken imba trinity but now she is only a selfish one.

[holyicon]

Yeah.... seems like a still broken imba trinity but now she is only a selfish one.

 

Well another thought was to make Link a radial debuff that caused enemies to take any damage that a nearby Tenno took.

Then the question becomes if the affected Tenno would take reduced damage.

Alternately you could make the same argument for Valkyr's "Selfish Immortality".

All that needs is Rage and it becomes purpetual.

You just have to accept that some Frames are going to play very different from the others.

 

[holyicon]

{1}

So she's still perma invincible with link but can "only" make the team 75% invincible for ~30 seconds at a time?

{2}

I dunno that still seems like it would totally trivialize....all content.

 

{1}

I've rebalanced the %'s so Link needs 'some help' to hit 100% damage reduction.

{2}

Then don't play with Trinity. If they show up in PUG, endure it or play Private/Invite Only.

[notionphil]

 

{1}

I've rebalanced the %'s so Link needs 'some help' to hit 100% damage reduction.

{2}

Then don't play with Trinity. If they show up in PUG, endure it or play Private/Invite Only.

 

but, why do you think any frame should make the entire game trivially easy?

 

doesn't that defeat the point of playing?

[Rikage]

Alternately you could make the same argument for Valkyr's "Selfish Immortality".

All that needs is Rage and it becomes purpetual.

Except her "selfish immortality" disables her guns...

[holyicon]

but, why do you think any frame should make the entire game trivially easy?

 

doesn't that defeat the point of playing?

 

Then dont play Trinity, or (Like Me) don't play her that way.

 

Except her "selfish immortality" disables her guns...

But not Rip Line, and Paralysis.

These together can be used to overcome enemy stand-off tactics.

And again, with Rage and a Vitality/Vigor. You dont have to worry about energy when Hysteria falls off.

Now... I'm not calling foul on Valkyr. And I will accept any Nerf D.E. puts on Trinity.

I'm capable of finding ways to enjoy the game regardless, but if it's a matter of preference, I prefer my preference. Or something like that. ^^

[taiiat]

So she's still perma invincible with link but can "only" make the team 75% invincible for ~30 seconds at a time?

I dunno that still seems like it would totally trivialize....all content.

 

- Blessing's effects are not affected by Power Strength or Duration modifiers.

if you ask me, that line implies that Duration is immune to Mod Effects.

 

 

 

 

that being said, i HATE Powers having factors that are immune to Mod Effects.

it defeats the purpose of having Mods.

 

all powers should have all relevant effects modify the power. ones that aren't primarily obvious, should still have some effect. 

 

 

what does that mean? some examples.

Iron Skin doesn't have a Duration, but reducing Duration would.. impact it negatively in some way.

Vortex isn't affected by Range Mods, but Range Mods should have some sort of positive and negative effect on it.

Blessing doesn't have a 'Strength', but reducing or increasing Strength should still impact it positively or negatively in some way.

[notionphil]

 

Then dont play Trinity, or (Like Me) don't play her that way.

 

 

 

Ok, I don't. But I do play PUG's about 90% of the time, and a Trinity in the game still forces me into godmode against my will.

 

However that wasn't an answer to my question.

 

I asked "why do you think any frame should make the entire game trivially easy?"

 

Don't forget,

[notionphil]

 

if you ask me, that line implies that Duration is immune to Mod Effects.

 

OP has been edited. Powers are toned down from the original version, but still way too much IMO.

[holyicon]

I asked "why do you think any frame should make the entire game trivially easy?"

  

I can't answer that question because that is not my assertion.

 

I don't think a frame should make the any part of the game trivial.

 

That being said, I'm not the designer of Warframe. Merely voiceing a preference. If what I have suggested so far is still too easily exploited, then (and I am always) open to revising it. But I need examples. Things I havnt not thought of. Something specific. Something I can add to my considerations so I can output a better suggestion. And prefereably, something that does not take from Trinity a thing that another frame has.

][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][

Also consider.

"Why should Excalabur be Equal to Hydriod?" or "Why shouldn't Excalabur be equal to Hydriod?"

Here's my answer:

You simply cannot balance this many different frames, so you simply make the best attempt you can, given the enviroment they are set against.

Because the statement "All the frames can be balanced" is false.

Any argument that says there is a balance to be reached is either asking for the individuality of the frames to be minimized in favor of balance or fails to recognize that not all systems can achive a balance.

Hence my continual compromise. But that stops when Trinity begins to lose her individuality.

 

Perhaps there should be a class of enemy attacks that can bypass the damage mitigation of Blessing?

[notionphil]

This isn't so much about balance, (though I do think relative, subjective balance is possible).

This is about a frame (doesn't matter which) rendering the game trivial.

I'm not a trinity player so I don't have the most insightful suggestions, sorry. But I do know that when a trinity is on my team, it frequently takes much/all of the risk of defeat out of the game, which really isn't very fun.

I would think making her powers maybe having 100% upfront damage mitigation and the % is reduced with each hit? Or having the % decrease over time?

Invulnerability or near invul(75%) just encourages lazy thoughtless play, which isn't engaging.

[holyicon]

I would think making her powers maybe having 100% upfront damage mitigation and the % is reduced with each hit? Or having the % decrease over time?

 

 

So something like a Damage shield?

Something with an overall 14sec timer, but each hit reduces the % of the next hit's reduction by 5%?

Alternately, something that places an "overshield" on the Tenno. That has a set HP based on Blessing's Rank?

Well those would bring Trinity more in-line with the current Rhino/Frost changes, so it's not just  good idea, it's also plausible.

But here's the thing. Trin's "Ultimate" cannot be this. Perhaps if Link and Blessing were swapped?

Then, Blessing could Heal by Rank % (Affected by Power Strength).

And, Link would be free to give 100% mitigation to Trinity (with help from Power Strenth, maybe, maybe not?)

This would be in-line more with Rhono and Valkyr.

What say you?

[taiiat]

but still way too much IMO.

i know.

 

I would think making her powers maybe having 100% upfront damage mitigation and the % is reduced with each hit? Or having the % decrease over time?

sounds kind've interesting, we can work with it and see where it goes.

[holyicon]

Reworked Blessing into the "3" Skill.

- A bit like a less effective Iron Skin with a Duration.
- Heals more than Renewal but hey, Trinity does not have Stomp or Reckoning.

Link is now the Ult.

- Will not reflect Self-damage.

- Needs "help" to reach 100% mitigation.

- Debuffs Trinity's Movement speed (more so if Power Strength is added).

 

 

Also it amazes me how nobody has even mentioned about how the powers affect pets and stamina.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:
Oh and you can't make the "Vek Hek" is a push over argument anymore either, he dosn't even drop Trinity any more.
Go farm Fossa, because that's a challenge worthey of such an awesome and popular frame.
(these are jokes, laugh dammit!)

Edited April 27, 2014 by holyicon

[notionphil]

Reworked Blessing into the "3" Skill.

- A bit like a less effective Iron Skin with a Duration.

- Heals more than Renewal but hey, Trinity does not have Stomp or Reckoning.

Link is now the Ult.

- Will not reflect Self-damage.

- Needs "help" to reach 100% mitigation.

- Debuffs Trinity's Movement speed (more so if Power Strength is added).

 

 

Also it amazes me how nobody has even mentioned about how the powers affect pets and stamina.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

Oh and you can't make the "Vek Hek" is a push over argument anymore either, he dosn't even drop Trinity any more.

Go farm Fossa, because that's a challenge worthey of such an awesome and popular frame.

(these are jokes, laugh dammit!)

I like how the powers return stamina and pets. Make blessing give +100% stamina regen maybe too

Link is still perma invincibility. I still can't understand why you keep putting that in, it really makes it seem that the rework can't be taken seriously.

Before you compare to Valkyr, I think DE also mentioned her invincibility as something that needs looking at. So not a good point of reference.

[holyicon]

Before you compare to Valkyr, I think DE also mentioned her invincibility as something that needs looking at. So not a good point of reference.

 

When D.E. actually takes away Valkyr's invincibility, then Link will follow.

Until then you need to realize that Trinity has no Directly Offensive Powers and is therefore more inclined to be benefited by what SEEMS like overly defensive ones. Link is Reactive. Paralysis is ACTIVE, for 5en, and sets up FINISHERS.

[holyicon]

Updated response to upcoming Trinity Change.

[GSDAkatsuki]

Get good. Supports do this all the time in other games, keeping an eye on their teammates while still focused on the current surroundings.

[holyicon]

Get good. Supports do this all the time in other games, keeping an eye on their teammates while still focused on the current surroundings.

 

It's not just about watching the HP bars, it's about anticipating the other players' actions. You don't know if the damage a player is taking to their shield will become fatal, or is incidental.

The cast time of Blessing demands preemptive action, NOT reactionary action. Casting Blessing when not needed puts you into a Time Deficit while the 0% bubble wears off. Casting it too late means you have to expose yourself to rescue the downed player (with likely a 0% bubble on yourself).

"Get Good"? ... please look in the mirror.