Nerfing Trinity: Progressive Ideas About Blessing

[DJ_Redwire]

Let me say first off that I deeply enjoy playing Trinity in her current form, and I do not want DE to nerf her. Now that you are aware of my official position on the issue, you may continue.

 

 

However, I also know that throwing a tantrum is the exact opposite of what constructive is. So, if we're going to nerf her, I want them at least to do it progressively - not all at once.

Do it step by step towards whatever level of balance we're trying to achieve in small increments.

 

 

Step 1.)

A good first step would be to treat Blessing is to basically preventing multiple players from activating it in tandem. This would help to address the issue of two (or more) Trinity's on a squad having the ability to keep a team permanently invincible. Implement that change, then see how it goes.

 

Step 2.)

If that turns out to be not enough of a nerf, then move to Step 2. Many avid Trinity users would agree that the casting animation length is the primary reason you will ever see a Trinity bleeding out if they're not careful. Wait too long to get another Blessing up, and that Corpus Tech will down you before you can say Lotus if he has a clear shot. So, my recommendation would be to extend that casting animation, even by just a little. If you give those high level dps enemies a bigger window, I believe the results will speak for themselves.

 

Step 3.)

If THAT isn't enough, onto Step 3. My third nerf suggestion would be to rework the mechanics of how Blessing works to emulate Oberon's Renewal. Right now, Blessing makes allies immediately invincible upon casting, so what I'm suggesting is that Blessing would have a travel time added to it, so that there is a delay between when Blessing is cast, and when a teammate is made invincible. 

 

Etc.

This cycle of gentle nerfs would continue until the developers and players are satisfied with Trinity's balance overall. 

 

 

The point that I'm trying to drive home here is that we can balance Trinity without needing to immediately destroy her end game capabilities of invincibility. There are many streams that lead to the ocean, not just the main river. Like I said before, I love Trinity, and I don't want a nerf as much as the next guy - but if that's what it's going to come to then I want them to take it slow. Baby steps.

[FinnishHim]

Additionally adding new components to the Blessing could add more options for modding appropriately to combat the nerfs, in a sense, ie some way to increase the casting speed or some such. This way you would have to build even more specifically to overcome the nerfs, but Trinity would still be viable.

 

This would just have to be done very carefully.

 

But I totally agree with "Progressive Changes," very good idea.

 

But I think DE may not only be speaking about nerfing/Blessing. They could buff or change her other 3 abilities to keep her balanced, let's not rule out those three.

 

Good post very insightful +1

[Vyrn]

Blessing used to not be immediate and did have travel time, but they removed that. Idk if they'd re-add it. Either way, yeah, I agree. Honestly, Blessing needs a a bit of a nerf, but it doesn't need to be broken.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

No, Blessing, and most of Trin's abilities need to be scrapped and re worked from the ground up mechanics wise.

 

Blessing is far too good and is a God mode cheat, while Well of Life and Energy Vampire provide very little use being dependant on targets; given that weapons and frames can put out a few hundred thousand damage or more in a couple of minutes things end up dead so quickly that it's just not worth the time and energy.

 

Link, link is actually okay, just not working in conjunction with Blessing. 

[DJ_Redwire]

Blessing is far too good and is a God mode cheat, while Well of Life and Energy Vampire provide very little use being dependant on targets; given that weapons and frames can put out a few hundred thousand damage or more in a couple of minutes things end up dead so quickly that it's just not worth the time and energy.

 

So basically what you're saying is, that because your average Tenno can put out a large amounts of damage - that means Blessing is overpowered. Um, k. That's like saying because a teacher's students are all getting A's and B's in that particular class, that automatically means the teacher is not providing enough of a challenge. It's a backwards assumption that basically tells me you really didn't comprehend my post. And in case you haven't noticed, it only takes a few minutes in something like Survival for all of the enemies to easily match and surpass the damage output of your average Tenno (and they can take all that damage no problem too). 

 

You're calling Blessing 'cheating' when it was designed to be the exact way it is right now by the developers. It was created, it was shaped to be what it is today. It's not an exploit - it's an intentional feature with a specific purpose. And what my post is about is that purpose is not going away any time soon. In fact, based on the direction the game is going, we will need it more than ever.

 

Should we re-balance Blessing? Sure, no problem.

 

Should we scrap it? Radicalism is what destroys society on a fundamental level.

 

I'm asking for small changes over a long period of time, that's all. Who's to say that by the time Blessing has reached the end of it's journey of changes, that it's completely different than what it started out as? If you aren't willing to compromise - this isn't a conversation you should be involved in.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Yes, and I'm sure that Rhino's Iron skins was designed to be the way it is now... oh that's right it wasn't, it got nerfed a while back for being game breakingly OP, like Frost's SG was stupidly powerful and a one trick pony for defence missions. Both were exploited to ridiculous lvls by lack of design foresight, your solution is to leave them, nothing should change, nothing should be adjusted, because it was designed that way. That, is stupid. 

 

Warframe is not a reflection of society, so please cut that crap out. 

 

Blessing needs to be scrapped and re worked in terms of mechanics as it currently allows for invincibility, regens shields, HP, unlimited range, affected by duration and energy efficiency, I don't see trying to keep those mechanics intact and not create an OP power as possible. While her 1st and 2nd powers are unused because in their current state they don't function. They are largely irrelevant powers, because Blessing does everything better. It's rather difficult to use Energy Vampire of Well of Life when the target gets torn to pieces in seconds, and when the 4th currently does everything the first to do and it does it better. Why would I ever use them?

[holyicon]

Not that it should matter, but I've been playing since open Beta and my Trinity Play Time is 49% of that time.

While I agree that a nerf would keep other players from complaining about Trinity, that reason shouldn't be the goal we are appeasing.

A Total Rework and you're basically just inventing a new frame, giving it to Trinity players, and taking away their Trinity.

There is A Compromise to be found.

Mainly in how Link and Blessing operate. Link does not provide adequate protection for it to do its job, and Blessing provides too much protection for players to see it as balanced or not cry foul if it's cast twice in a row.

Either simply switch around the mitigation % from Link to Blessing and vise-verse. Or Read Here for more ideas to mine.

No "Scrapping" Trinity, and No "Nerfing her into the ground". Learn to accept that some Warframes will be different from each other.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

That's not a compromise, you're rewriting the entire energy system, arguably more fundamental than bining the current Trin ability mechanics and starting from scratch, which you would be doing anyway with what you linked to, you've not made her any more balanced or changed her at all she functions exactly as she does now.

 

Re working Trin changes nothing, she's still a healer, she still fills the same role, you just don't get 30 seconds of perma invincibility. Blessing's current mechanics and a lack of utility in her first 2 powers necessitate starting it from scratch. 

 

So long as Blessing gives, HP and Shield regen, invincibility, infinite range, duration based allowing of up to 30 seconds, benefiting in the same manner from energy efficiency allowing players to circumvent the negatives of corrupt mods; you're going to have problems. That's not going to change, especially when Well of Life and Energy Vampire are pointless in comparison. 

 

Link was never supposed to allow you to shoot yourself in the foot with an Ogris! That's lack of design foresight

 

In effect there is no point to using anything other than blessing at the moment, and it's bloody boring. Learn to accept that some powers are broken, and should have been reworked ages ago. Just like Iron skin and Snow Globe.

Edited April 27, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[holyicon]

 

{3} That's not a compromise, you're rewriting the entire energy system, arguably more fundamental than bining the current Trin ability mechanics and starting from scratch, which you would be doing anyway with what you linked to, you've not made her any more balanced or changed her at all she functions exactly as she does now.

 

{4a} Re working Trin changes nothing, she's still a healer, she still fills the same role, you just don't get 30 seconds of perma invincibility. Blessing's current mechanics and a lack of utility in her first 2 powers necessitate starting it from scratch. 

 

{1} So long as Blessing gives, HP and Shield regen, invincibility, infinite range, duration based allowing of up to 30 seconds, benefiting in the same manner from energy efficiency allowing players to circumvent the negatives of corrupt mods; you're going to have problems. That's not going to change, especially when Well of Life and Energy Vampire are pointless in comparison. 

 

{2} Link was never supposed to allow you to shoot yourself in the foot with an Ogris! That's lack of design foresight

 

{4b} In effect there is no point to using anything other than blessing at the moment, and it's bloody boring. Learn to accept that some powers are broken, and should have been reworked ages ago. Just like Iron skin and Snow Globe.

 

 

{1}

From the URL --> Blessing is not affected Power Strength or Duration and maxes out at 75% Mitigation for 14 seconds.

{2}

From the URL --> Link does not reflect damage Trinity does to herself.

{3}

From the URL --> With a maximum of 4 Pulse Charges a Maxed Energy Vampire would Yield 100en if left for 12 seconds before mods.

If killed Immediately after cast (the low range) it would be 60en before mods.

And lets not forget the cooldown on the skill.

Truly a massive overhaul to THE ENERGY SYSTEM.

{4a}{4b}

If reworking Trinity changes nothing then Blessing would still be the only thing worth casting even after the changes to the 1 and 2 skills that I've proposed that you say change everything.

"Learn to accept some powers are broken" ... okay, I see what you're doing here with the parallel construction, unfortunately I HAVE ACCEPTED that people think Blessing is broken and am totally willing to accept whatever changes D.E. makes.

What I'm not willing to accept is gainsay that obviously skimmed over the details of my URL and filled in the gaps with what it assumes I'm after.

 

{ex}

To that end my suggestion is no more or less radical than the changes D.E. performed on Rhino/Frost. Moreover I wouldn't have changed Iron Skin and Snow Globe in the same ways D.E. did. Hence why I even bother to post these suggestions, as food for thought, same as any other player with an idea or two.

Is there a larger reason why you think Trinity should be changed? Because it ruins you fun, right? Well I don't want to do that. But care is needed or you go too far with the changes. If D.E. doesn't go "far enough" for your taste, then stop playing with Trinities.

 

EDIT: oops. left some sentence fragments in the margins.

Edited April 27, 2014 by holyicon