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Very interesting read about some of the under the hood processes involved with how the game renders stuff. I wish I could help gather evidence when you'll explain how, but sadly I've never experienced these hitches so I'm not sure if I'd be able to gather any worthwhile reports or such.

 

I was wondering though, if/when users experience performance issues (hitches, etc), does it reflect in the EE.log? Or is the lack of of such a thing the reason why you're working on adding diagnostics?

Edited by Letter13
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This will probably seem like a really simplistic question since I'm not a graphics engine programmer guru, but...   If it takes so much time to translate your shaders through the video driver, can you capture the "compiled" version and save that for later use?  Stamp your compiled shader with the driver version it was compiled under, and if anything changes on the user's video hardware, rebuild your cache?

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I don't think I've ever experienced anything super horrendous hitch wise either, and I have a high end desktop, a low end newer laptop, and a medium power older laptop. I wonder if some of the reports are blown a little out of proportion due to frustration. Glad you have an idea of where the answers lie though.

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This will probably seem like a really simplistic question since I'm not a graphics engine programmer guru, but...   If it takes so much time to translate your shaders through the video driver, can you capture the "compiled" version and save that for later use?  Stamp your compiled shader with the driver version it was compiled under, and if anything changes on the user's video hardware, rebuild your cache?

 

Sadly the process occurs inside the driver -- we don't have any control or visibility into the system. The feature you're describing might be great except I'd have to work at NVIDIA or AMD to implement it.

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Even with high end PC I've been experiencing rare uber lags (less than 1 FPS) for maybe 4 or 5 seconds and then going back to the normal 60fps.

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Hmm, I haven't really seen any hitches with my game personally, though occasionally I get a massive lag spike that drops me to 2 FPS for 10 seconds or so, but that mostly seems to be due to running stuff in the background.

 

Anyways anything that boosts performance is a great update in my books.

 

 

(I run Warframe on my mid-range Laptop, at 40-60 fps)

Edited by Sixty5
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The Scene of the Crime

 
There is one area I've been working on optimizing for several days now; you'll notice this hitch or stutter if you run up to a closed door and have it open to show you a new area with materials you haven't seen before (I'm testing this using the Earth defence map which is a pretty good test case for me). You actually get a similar stutter when the loading screen starts fading away but you usually don't notice (I added diagnostics to measure this so I know it's there).

 

An issue that I have had in small amounts for a long time is that when turning quickly, bringing a different part of the tile into view, or opening a door the other side is white. This has gotten far worse with this weeks patches, to the point where it happens every time. I assumed it had something to do with culling planes. I don't notice any stuttering along with it, but I do wonder if it has a connection.

Edited by egregiousRac

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Even with high end PC I've been experiencing rare uber lags (less than 1 FPS) for maybe 4 or 5 seconds and then going back to the normal 60fps.

I experienced something similar back before Nova's Mprime was optimized so that it didn't do that big 'crunch'

 

What sort of setup are you using? 

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I get repeatable horrible FPS in certain rooms, main culprits are the orokin room with the white tree in the middle and the 4 staircases with the colored pad "puzzle" that opens 1-2 treasure rooms, and in Orokin Derelict room that starts as a long corridor but it's borken in the middle and there is a path going down with a lot of tentacles around it, I got 50-60 FPS pretty solidly until I get those those rooms. Around 10 in those rooms, alone or with enemies.

 

And If WF has been running for a couple hours I get multi-second complete freezes in multiplayer as host, drops everyone else, never had it happen recently after a re-start of the game, I make it a point of re-starting the game before doing more involved runs.

Edited by KriLL3
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I get repeatable horrible FPS in certain rooms, main culprits are the orokin room with the white tree in the middle and the 4 staircases with the colored pad "puzzle" that opens 1-2 treasure rooms, and in Orokin Derelict room that starts as a long corridor but it's borken in the middle and there is a path going down with a lot of tentacles around it, I got 50-60 FPS pretty solidly until I get those those rooms. Around 10 in those rooms, alone or with enemies.

 

And If WF has been running for a couple hours I get multi-second complete freezes in multiplayer as host, drops everyone else, never had it happen recently after a re-start of the game, I make it a point of re-starting the game before doing more involved runs.

 

Have you got runtime tessellation enabled?

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I have a hitch of a few seconds after loading into a mission, and never again after that. My system would be classified as low-end nowadays (AMD 945, ATI HD 5700, 4GB RAM ).

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I experienced something similar back before Nova's Mprime was optimized so that it didn't do that big 'crunch'

 

What sort of setup are you using? 

 

i5-3570k @ 5.13GHz

 

16G DDR3 Ram

 

64G SSD

 

GTX670 2GB

 

Windows 8

 

Those lags happen rarely and randomly...

 

 

EDIT: I run @ 1080p with everything maxed.

Edited by ChinaTercel

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I've seen similar events to ChinaTercel.  It seems to happen most often running ODD though I've also seen it in T3S and a couple of missions.  Usually the frame drop lasts for 3-5 seconds, more often on the lower end.  They seem random though they happen more often when there are large numbers of enemies on the screen.

 

My system: 

i5-3570k @ 4.2GHz

 

8GB DDR3-1333 RAM

 

64 GB SSD

 

Radeon HD 7870 2GB @ 1100mhz Core & 1250mhz memory clocks.

 

Windows 7

 

1080p everything maxed as well. 

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If we uploaded the whole library at once this would add a brutal amount of time to the loading screen: on my workstation this added a full minute to the loading-screen when running DirectX 9 or made my game run at 10 FPS for 2 minutes when running DirectX 11 (while shaders were translated in the background).

 

Why not make an option for people who are having this problem to do load it all at once? Some people wouldn't mind a longer load time if it meant less hitching. It would also help the people affected to see if that is actually the cause.

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Why not make an option for people who are having this problem to do load it all at once? Some people wouldn't mind a longer load time if it meant less hitching. It would also help the people affected to see if that is actually the cause.

I imagine one reason is that then anyone else in the game with them would have to wait while they load for three days. And the extra shaders might use up more GPU memory, I don't know how that works.

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Why not make an option for people who are having this problem to do load it all at once? Some people wouldn't mind a longer load time if it meant less hitching. It would also help the people affected to see if that is actually the cause.

I think the problem here would be that if you go into an online match, everyone has to sit on a loading screen for the same amount of time. If one person has this enabled and the other three don't it could quickly become a point of contention among the community.

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Thanks for the post, it's interesting to read about the methodology of bug/hitch hunting from someone who's probably never going to run out of optimisation issues to solve.

 

Do you from the top of your head what the specs of your highest low end testing system is?

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I get this problem as well. My setup is kinda old though:

 

AMD Phenom 2 X4 965 (3.4 GHz quad core)

Dual Nvidia GTX 470 (running in SLI mode, or it should be in SLI but every so often I find SLI disabled)

6 GB RAM

Windows 7 64-bit

Nvidia nForce 980a SLI Motherboard

 

Wait....

 

Just noticed the Nvidia control panel won't open and Device Manager says there's no driver for a Coprocessor, which Google says refers to a processor on the motherboard so I apparently need to update the chipset drivers.  

 

Downloading and installing drivers now.

 

EDIT: 

 

Ok, apparently after I originally bought the Nvidia motherboard and assembled my computer, Nvidia got forced out of the motherboard making business and there are no drivers on their website for that board.  Should I even try random other websites who claim to have the driver?  

 

I mean, bundled rootkits and all.

 

Edit^2:  I'm an idiot.  Legacy Drivers.

Edited by KnotOfMetal

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Question: The game has like 15,000 possible shaders, but only uses 500(on average)...

 

Why not pre-calculate them, and load the highest-probability ones during the loading screen, and then let it go?

 

That is, certain shaders obviously work with certain rooms/features. If the game decides the first 5 rooms generated will include enemies 1, 2, 3, then pre-load the shaders for those enemies, the first 5 rooms, and the tenno we're bringing in.

 

Then, have the game decide probabilistically what else to stream up as the players are going... what rooms can connect to the ones at the end of the currently generated map, what enemies could spawn there, and load for that, while the game is still chugging along. Obviously, it's possible for something unexpected to happen, which would then cause the current issues seen, to some degree, but for the most part, it seems entirely plausible to predict what's most likely to be ahead, and prepare for it silently.

 

This would make more sense than the current chunky situation. It might cause a slight performance drop early in the map(before the game's done figuring out what's possible), but instead of facing the large "hitches" at critical points, it would just be one long, very slight slow down, during the least-important section of the game(the first rooms are always empty anyway, until someone patrols in or an alarm goes off). I think a mild performance loss while walking empty rooms, done that way, would be superior to the "I need to flying leap over these grineer and now I'm freezing in mid-air" that happens now.

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-snip-

 

Shader streaming is bad performance. Look what happened to Thief

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Very interesting read about some of the under the hood processes involved with how the game renders stuff. I wish I could help gather evidence when you'll explain how, but sadly I've never experienced these hitches so I'm not sure if I'd be able to gather any worthwhile reports or such.

 

I was wondering though, if/when users experience performance issues (hitches, etc), does it reflect in the EE.log? Or is the lack of of such a thing the reason why you're working on adding diagnostics?

 

 

lol you hardly play man.

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Did anybody discuss pro's/cons of not removing some of these things from memory in the first place?  Be it textures from ram, shaders from gpu, or whatever; memory is a lot cheaper than processing power, and is fairly rarely a computers choke point (and if it is you probably shouldn't be playing on said settings anyway). 

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lol you hardly play man.

The hundreds of hours I've spent in game seem to disagree with your statement (though over the past few weeks I've been busy with final projects & papers for university, as well as preoccupied with Dark Souls 2). I've been very lucky in that I've never really been one of the users who're affected by performance issues. There have been some instances in the past (i.e. PhysX performance issues), but my experience with the game has been more or less completely smooth and hitch free on both my desktop and laptop.

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