Survival Change - It's Raining Life Support

[Liminal]

All that means is that they made the mission harder so you can't play like you do. Like I said, incorrectly. It's actually the opposite. Either you're somehow unlucky, or you don't know how to play survival to get the maximum oxygen. I'm not trying to insult you, just merely trying to explain to you the problem. There are many that have the same issue.

Really. So running from drop to drop killing everything in our way isn't the way we are supposed to play this? I feel like you are making excuses for spawning working incorrectly. Enemies should pour in from every door, we shouldn't have to go checking all rooms for them.

There wasn't a problem before but there is one now, therefore the problem is the game.

[ReiganCross]

Ok, here's my question then... What the hell is wrong with just killing? Like you're pretentiously proposing that enemies will never not die, then what the hell is the problem? Killing enemies is exactly what i want to do, and i want to kill lot's and lot's and lot's of them, an eternal carnage of death and explosions and fun! Even considering that for you to do that you must have all the @(*()$ stars aligned with about only one or 2 valid approaches of doing it, it is still fun! How is a "generic hack and slash" not fun? It's pretty much what this game does in a daily basis, hacking and slashing for farming for more hacking and slashing!

 

And like i said, Oxygen and Cryo can be made into something good. I'm not going to exemplify a good use of Oxygen and Cryo because i believe it's DE's job of selling us how this can be fun, but i do believe it can be tailored to be something good. But in the end, it won't be "killing tons of dudes for a cathartic experience." It will be good experiences if tailored right, but it won't be the same. Sometimes i just want to do that, murder tons of dudes, without any of this pesky "intelligence" put into it, just a mindless and cheap time sink of awesome killing! Hell, i'll probably be quoting Schwarzenegger lines while doing the Stalone jaw as i'm playing those...

[TheImmortalHotDog]

plus one

[-XeqtR]

Really. So running from drop to drop killing everything in our way isn't the way we are supposed to play this? I feel like you are making excuses for spawning working incorrectly. Enemies should pour in from every door, we shouldn't have to go checking all rooms for them.

There wasn't a problem before but there is one now, therefore the problem is the game.

And there lies your problem. You need to find a good room and stay there. Going around looking in other rooms is why you're failing. Spawning is all about camera angles, the more you have out and looking at different places, the less spawns there are. Like I said, if you understand how spawning works, you shouldn't have any issues.

[Liminal]

And there lies your problem. You need to find a good room and stay there. Going around looking in other rooms is why you're failing. Spawning is all about camera angles, the more you have out and looking at different places, the less spawns there are. Like I said, if you understand how spawning works, you shouldn't have any issues.

If we have to play around flawed game mechanics to make enemies spawn the problem is the game.

(And I usually camp the room where the last drop is.)

[-XeqtR]

If we have to play around flawed game mechanics to make enemies spawn the problem is the game.

(And I usually camp the room where the last drop is.)

Playing around a flawed game mechanic =/= playing incorrectly. How do you know what is intended or not? You could just be playing wrong (like I've been saying). Besides, staying in one room seems like a generally good strategy. More movement just opens you up to being attacked in unpredictable ways. Why wouldn't you play the way that allows you to win, rather than lose because of being stubborn about your play-style based on what you think is a broken mechanic? It seems silly to me, that even knowing how to play to win, you would still refuse to play that way because you don't want to conform to what the game wants you to do. What is that? Purposely losing so you can post it on the forum? 

 

You know, I've also noticed that when I don't kill any of the enemies I don't get oxygen either. It must be a broken game mechanic. I should be able to live off of the oxygen capsules alone. The game needs to be fixed so it's easy again. I don't want to play around that flawed mechanic. I'm going to go into survival missions and fail a bunch and then complain that the game is broken on the forum. That way it can be changed to be easier..

[ReiganCross]

Playing around a flawed game mechanic =/= playing incorrectly. How do you know what is intended or not? You could just be playing wrong (like I've been saying). Besides, staying in one room seems like a generally good strategy. More movement just opens you up to being attacked in unpredictable ways. Why wouldn't you play the way that allows you to win, rather than lose because of being stubborn about your play-style based on what you think is a broken mechanic? It seems silly to me, that even knowing how to play to win, you would still refuse to play that way because you don't want to conform to what the game wants you to do. What is that? Purposely losing so you can post it on the forum? 

 

You know, I've also noticed that when I don't kill any of the enemies I don't get oxygen either. It must be a broken game mechanic. I should be able to live off of the oxygen capsules alone. The game needs to be fixed so it's easy again. I don't want to play around that flawed mechanic. I'm going to go into survival missions and fail a bunch and then complain that the game is broken on the forum. That way it can be changed to be easier..

 

Ok, first, i'm not going to be a good sport and "play in a way that pleases the game." I'm not here to amuse some RNG table or whatever the hell you seem to call "playing it right."

 

It's the difference between the massive kills in Dark Souls and the massive kills in Diablo 3... In Dark Souls i was killed because it was my fault that i didn't see the bosses's sweaty armpits raising an unfathomable strike of doom, in Diablo 3, i died because i didn't grind enough gear. Both are difficulties, but one of them is flawed (And it's not as clear as that. You can grind enemies in Dark Souls and you can skill around in Diablo, but Diablo makes it impossible to avoid the damn bullet hell shooter design and Dark Souls gives you a fair chance.) Enemy Spawn in Survival is Flawed (You yourself admired that it was flawed game mechanic!)

 

Also, design intention is completely irrelevant to analyze the final message. I don't care if you wanted your final boss to be an introspective argument into the state of politics today, it won't change the fact that you're fighting Senator Armstrong on steroids with Nanomachines, son! If they wanted the difficulty to be to play around some flawed RNG mechanic, then they did it wrong because all it does is makes for some extremely irritating concept, even if you're one of those emerging gameplay types that manages to extract 40 hours of "entertainment" from MGSV: Ground Zeroes.

 

Another point that i always bang about. Mod 2.0 is the scourge of this game, the only "strategy" you spoke of was how to mod your gear to properly be able to win. The fact that there is clearly a single one mod combination for survival mission means that you might as well skip the whole modding process entirely and just say that we level linearly towards a single possible answer! (And yeah, i agree, there IS only one way to win, trough modding. This does not a fun game makes!) Either that or you'll now want to argue with me that modding in any other way that isn't the completely optimal way will ALSO make you be able to win in this game, and if that was the case, then there wouldn't be a "wrong" way to mod things, would there?

Edited May 12, 2014 by ReiganCross

[-XeqtR]

Ok, first, i'm not going to be a good sport and "play in a way that pleases the game." I'm not here to amuse some RNG table or whatever the hell you seem to call "playing it right."

 

It's the difference between the massive kills in Dark Souls and the massive kills in Diablo 3... In Dark Souls i was killed because it was my fault that i didn't see the bosses's sweaty armpits raising an unfathomable strike of doom, in Diablo 3, i died because i didn't grind enough gear. Both are difficulties, but one of them is flawed (And it's not as clear as that. You can grind enemies in Dark Souls and you can skill around in Diablo, but Diablo makes it impossible to avoid the damn bullet hell shooter design and Dark Souls gives you a fair chance.) Enemy Spawn in Survival is Flawed (You yourself admired that it was flawed game mechanic!)

 

Also, design intention is completely irrelevant to analyze the final message. I don't care if you wanted your final boss to be an introspective argument into the state of politics today, it won't change the fact that you're fighting Senator Armstrong on steroids with Nanomachines, son! If they wanted the difficulty to be to play around some flawed RNG mechanic, then they did it wrong because all it does is makes for some extremely irritating concept, even if you're one of those emerging gameplay types that manages to extract 40 hours of "entertainment" from MGSV: Ground Zeroes.

 

Another point that i always bang about. Mod 2.0 is the scourge of this game, the only "strategy" you spoke of was how to mod your gear to properly be able to win. The fact that there is clearly a single one mod combination for survival mission means that you might as well skip the whole modding process entirely and just say that we level linearly towards a single possible answer! (And yeah, i agree, there IS only one way to win, trough modding. This does not a fun game makes!) Either that or you'll now want to argue with me that modding in any other way that isn't the completely optimal way will ALSO make you be able to win in this game, and if that was the case, then there wouldn't be a "wrong" way to mod things, would there?

Well first of all you took my "flawed game mechanic" out of context. I was responding to the guy that I quoted, he was the one that said it was a flawed game mechanic, not me. I think the game is fine, because I succeed at the game, just fine. That's fine, play the game you want to. That's what we call a casual. You play however you want. I play to win, so I'll play how I want, which happens to get me more success than you playing the way you do (still think that there isn't an intended way to play?). 

 

My last paragraph from before is sarcasm. 

 

To your last point, you're wrong. There's lots of different mods you can use. In fact, weapons are the least important factor to succeeding for long amounts of time. Frame composition is the #1 along with how you play in the mission (placement). I will agree that the composition you use is a bit limited at times, as in my opinion you pretty much need a Nekros. I too agree they need to fix survival not needing Nekros. I would like them to add more diverse utility abilities to frames to open up which ones you can choose to use for certain things.

 

By all means, I would love this game to have hard boss fights and challenges. In the end, it doesn't. So you have to find challenge in what the game has now. Otherwise, you should be posting in another thread addressing the issue of making a new mission type. Now, as this topic is strictly survival, I'll continue to argue how to play survival correctly. Because succeeding at a mission is considered correct in my definition. By all means, play how you want, even if it means standing in a locker room shooting a wall it doesn't matter right?

 

It's not RNG if I can last forever and make a conscious choice to leave the mission when I want. I have plenty of Oxygen. It's not bad RNG, just bad game-play, sorry. If a generic hack and slash is what you want, then go play those games. That's not this game.

Edited May 12, 2014 by -XeqtR

[Liminal]

If we can influence spawning by not looking at doors something's wrong. It's quite simple. WF is not some sort of "meta" shooter in which you influence the game through actions beyond your character's abilities ... we shouldn't consider breaking the 4th wall a mission mechanic.

 

They have to fix spawn rates or revamp the whole air thing, which is more irritating than useful. It shouldn't even be an item drop.

[ReiganCross]

Well first of all you took my "flawed game mechanic" out of context. I was responding to the guy that I quoted, he was the one that said it was a flawed game mechanic, not me. I think the game is fine, because I succeed at the game, just fine. That's fine, play the game you want to. That's what we call a casual. You play however you want. I play to win, so I'll play how I want, which happens to get me more success than you playing the way you do (still think that there isn't an intended way to play?). 

 

My last paragraph from before is sarcasm. 

 

Ok, sorry for taking the "flawed game mechanic" out of context then. And that last paragraph was seriously a little acid, don't you think? You come out of it looking like a a spiteful elitist.

 

Anyways, i'm not going to discuss the horribleness that is Mod 2.0. In the end you know that it is true that there is only a tiny assortment of "true builds" in the middle of a lot of useless stuff that ends up making the Mod 2.0 pretty pointless. Lot's can be said about it but i'm really not gonna start or else paragraphs will be devoted to it.

 

So back to survival, the problem is that there is pretty much only one way to succeed at it, and this way is contrived, boring and absolutely flawed. I'm not gonna argue with result, people can make 1hr survival run rather easely if they feel like it, but that is just playing around a flawed concept that ultimately does not add to the experience at all. The experience you're looking for is not to desperately look for a shiny green box, the experience is to keep on killing the bastards in front of you! You want to "Survive" the carnage of guns and bullets and fire and whatever the hell they can throw at you. It should not be about goddamn asphyxiation! Like i said before, it just makes the game into you desperately babysitting a goddamn bar! I don't care if you're a good obedient dog and like to obey every whim of that bloody bar, but to me that bar in there is obnoxious and annoying and in the way of my killing of tons of dudes!

 

If we can influence spawning by not looking at doors something's wrong. It's quite simple. WF is not some sort of "meta" shooter in which you influence the game through actions beyond your character's abilities ... we shouldn't consider breaking the 4th wall a mission mechanic.

 

They have to fix spawn rates or revamp the whole air thing, which is more irritating than useful. It shouldn't even be an item drop.

 

 

Also, this is a whole 'nother issue right there, Doc. Warframe breaking the 4th wall like a mission mechanic is rather a common sight to have. I don't think Warframe even HAS a 4th wall at this point with as much 4th wall breaking there is in this game. But please don't make me start there, that rant can go quite far.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ReiganCross

[Liminal]

Also, this is a whole 'nother issue right there, Doc. Warframe breaking the 4th wall like a mission mechanic is rather a common sight to have. I don't think Warframe even HAS a 4th wall at this point with as much 4th wall breaking there is in this game. But please don't make me start there, that rant can go quite far.

I was specifically referring to using the camera to influence enemy spawning as an intended mechanic, which I'm pretty sure it's not.

Edited May 12, 2014 by The_Doc

[ReiganCross]

I was specifically referring to using the camera to influence enemy spawning as an intended mechanic, which I'm pretty sure it's not.

 

Oh, trust me, it gets WAY worse then this if we go down that rabbit hole.. And it's not all that tied into the oxygen system since the effects are negligible for Oxygen pickups. It gets worse when you start thinking that enemy spawn arbitrarily inside some designated room that if anyone is standing there, the will be no spawning. But it goes worse when you start thinking about some other problems like Vay Hek now has gone trough 3 different Warframes that he drops, from Trinity to Oberon to Hydroid. For absolutely no good reason other then "This is what's new, sio we'll put them all together so people can experience all that's new at once!"

 

It gets REALLY bad when you start to think about Warframe Gender, since Warframe are produced in a gender rotation, then there is no real good reason for Hydroid to be a male frame other then "Zephyr was a female Warframe, therefore Hydroid must be male." And no matter how good the next Warframe would look like if he was male, he will come out a female because it was the turn to make a female (so instead of the gender adding information to the Warframe, it only holds it back from being actual armor.) And then you start thinking that the reason that the Warframe are gender isn't for any good lore related reason but because DE can't be asked to make it unisex.

 

It goes further, if you want me to continue, but i think you see the problem with Warframe's 4th wall right now being broken more often then cheap earphones! Therefore, 4th wall being an actual mechanic is not all that surprising.

[Liminal]

-snip-

Ok. That was fun to read :P

Sadly, I must agree.

[Zkorp]

I play only survival (or defense), the proof is my unfinished starmap because of ultra boring missions with no mobs inside... AND I have noted some irregularity in the spawns since the last patches. It's not always, but sometimes you can stay or run everywhere it doesn't matter there's not enough mobs to drop enough O2 even with a Nekro.

Of course there's bad randomized spawn rooms that may occur like it used to happen regularily, but there's also some tilesets with just not enough spawns, 3 times in row for exemple last day.

So, it's not cool to imply that we don't know how to play survival because we always do survival and we don't have changed anything in our way to play this mod, but we were ejected early from too much random survival by these "no spaws problems" to think that we are just out of luck...

[-XeqtR]

Well I'm saying I've done too many good survivals for it to be "good luck" that I have no issues.

So, I'm going to make a video of MULTIPLE back to back survivals with my clan to idk 45min-hr whatever time you deem acceptable. One right after another to prove your rng theories wrong. I will make every single one work. So, please suggest to me a map that you think is difficult and I'll do it to prove this point.

Edited May 13, 2014 by -XeqtR

[ReiganCross]

Well I'm saying I've done too many good survivals for it to be "good luck" that I have no issues.

So, I'm going to make a video of MULTIPLE back to back survivals with my clan to idk 45min-hr whatever time you deem acceptable. One right after another to prove your rng theories wrong. I will make every single one work. So, please suggest to me a map that you think is difficult and I'll do it to prove this point.

 

No, you are correct, it is possible to be "good" at Survival. But what i'm saying that being "good" at survival is extremely boring. Honestly, it's not about the killing of tons of dudes or surviving the stuff thaat would otherwise make you dead faster. It's about huge CC and corpse-ravaging. I can also chain 50-min runs together back to back at whatever map you want me to (with maybe me not being able to do ODS, haven't learned that map yet for long survival runs, which is funny because i used to chain T3S runs at 40min while half-asleep by pressing 3 a lot in my Dessekros)

 

But all that you're doing at this is avoiding the RNG. It's like you're counting at Black Jack, you're increasing your chances at defeating something random and acting accordingly. You're playing the meta-game, not the real game. And that doesn't make you a "better" player then anyone else playing, just makes you someone that figured out how to work around the game.

 

See my point here? That the system is still flawed despite your ability to go around it?

[Awazx]

+1 Vote OP:

[DeadlyFred]

In my personal experience, it very much depends on the map. I've had games where I had three life supports sitting around in any room I walked into because there was plenty to kill to keep the drops going, yet others where I would be dashing frantically from pod to pod and trying to snag every pack in between. The new design works fine, when it works.

[battlebrothertherix]

It's so hilarious seeing all the nerdrage going on in this thread. I can see XeqtR and ReiganCross going at each other's throats and you're both missing some of the problems of this game.

 

XeqtR, you're assuming that, because Reigan isn't getting secondary supports, that he isn't killing anything, that he's 'standing in a room shooting at a wall'. I ran a Corpus survival recently where in the first five minutes I killed 100-200 targets, and through all of that only one secondary life support was dropped, forcing me to practically beg Lotus for enough drops for me to bug out after the five minute mark. So, that's not me failing to play the game, it's the game's secondary supports having such an abysmally low drop rate that there was absolutely no chance of me getting anywhere past the five minute mark.

On a different vein I also tend to run Grineer survivals to farm weapons, and in the past I have managed to hit 30+ runs with Loki, Rhino, Nyx, Oberon and Frost. Each has been solo and often several times. However, the frequency of these runs has gone down sharply for the following reasons:

 

1) Grineer not spawning. I'm aware of the 'don't move rooms' ethos making them spawn more often, but in solo that's simply not true. The spawn system works on the basis that 'if you can't see the area, it can spawn' but in reality this means that enemies will spawn in rooms that you aren't in and move towards you. This means in squads the players need to bunch together more to raise the spawn rate. In solo, this means as long as you aren't literally standing in a doorway between the largest corridor tile and the largest room tile, then enemies should be spawning in decent proximity. I've found the crossroad corridor tileset is the best for this because then the spawning areas aren't far away. However, this is then debunked by the fact that I can wait there for a minute without seeing so much as a butcher appear. I'm not moving, so what next? I have to go and take a look because my Oxygen is about to bottom out. So, I go to explore and spend the next while picking up Lotus drops because enemies aren't spawning.

 

2) Secondary support isn't dropping. I can appreciate how using Desecrate pulls life support out and makes things easier, but should it really be the sole way to run survival? First problem is that Nekros is the most expensive Warframe available, both if built in-game or bought through platinum. You should not have to construct one of the most resource-expensive Warframes to do something as intrinsic to RPG systems as level grinding, nor does it seem very fair to have to give up another Warframe which you perhaps want more than Nekros just because you need the spawn of the devil to play the mission. Alongside this, the secondary support drop rate is horrible, and if it's so low to the point that you need one specific Warframe, defying all concept of skill-games through using your method of choice, then time is wasted. If Nekros is required to play survival, then it's becoming as skill-oriented as Reigan's suggested zergfest. Loki's speed combined with a decent melee weapon makes him great and hit n' run, and along with his moveset he becomes a decent skill frame in every level, as he can simply cut through the ranks. What's this, oh, this guy was so ignorant of his own mortality he didn't need life support? None for you! Go ahead, kill another few hundred then maybe we'll think about it~

 

---

 

Okay, so that's me done pulling apart XeqtR's argument. Now only Reigan's button-masher gameplay idea.

 

Problem there is just as bad as the game-breaker problems described as above. Omitting all semblance of skill would remove any need to even be at your computer unless you're playing as a Loki who is devoid of any offensive powers. If there's no need to move, just camp in a cupboard, tape your fourth ability key down and get one of those nodding birds to keep tapping your melee button. Melee 2.0 will ensure that you always face an enemy to hit them, and your fourth ability will pork anyone left.

The worry of having trouble killing targets only comes when you're having to move. When I've been camping in a room in the older survival where life support was dropping for days, I was having no trouble at all with killing anything at any difficult.  When that life support runs out? Suddenly you have to move to the next pod, you meet a pair of bombards and a napalm in a corridor and then S#&$ son, this game gets real!

How about something like this instead:

When you start the game, you're given a little time to get to the first pod. When you activated, it gives you a five minute countdown, but is restricted to the room you're in. If you leave that room, your 100% life support starts ticking until you get back in range (each person would need a separate counter to keep track of their own) at which point it stops and starts to slowly regenerate. When the five minutes on the pod is up, Lotus announces a new one and your life support starts to tick down until you can get into the same room as the next pod and activate it. Repeat the scenario earlier, essentially turning the game into an endless mobile defence mission, without enemies being able to destroy the life support pod. (Maybe make nightmare mode where the pod can be destroyed?)

 

As for your defence missions...well, having something to defend is kind of the whole point, but I miss the interception missions.

[__Kanade__]

The thing with the old survival was that with the amount of life support tanks enemies were dropping, your screen would just get blanketed with life support drops anywhere and everywhere and we were also stuck to just one big room like you are in defense so it made it even harder to see.

 

And there were fewer and fewer main Life Support tanks around.

 

I thought it was more intense back then, it was just the screen cluttering with nothing but tank waypoint markers that also made it a pain to enjoy it.

 

 

But back then, we didn't have the Carrier Sentinel.

Edited May 18, 2014 by __Kanade__

[ReiganCross]

Wee, my paragraph is way smaller! Less stuff to pick up, i guess.

 

Well, yes, you are mostly correct. There is but one problem though, you're taking my suggestion to the extreme. I actually agree that Life Support should actually exist, i'm only arguing that if you're doing the killing and popping the life support when O² get's low then maybe it shouldn't be so close and so hard to fill it. If you make, like i mentioned, each secondary support give out 10% and The capsule give out a whooping 80% life-gases and keep the bar draining at the level it's at, at 1% per second, then you have a WAY better window that if you're killing a whole lot you won't even notice it is there.

 

Bottom line, i'm not saying it should be removed entirely or else we'll actually just get an endless horde mode, which is kind of a staple of boring games. But i'm saying that we, as players, maybe should be focusing on the killing rather then babysitting that damn bar.

 

And as for defense, i kind of wish that the target was a little less exposed? They've been doing alright with the level design lately, the new defense tiles of Corpus Gas City are good and i'll even argue that the Grineer arena of death (With your Cryopod sitting square in the middle) could work... I dunno why don't we just put the damn pod behind a door already, but hey, who knows if that won't just make people spawn in there X__X. My complain about the Defense is just that killing stuff that is trying tio kill it shouldn't be your only way of defending something. Moving it to a better location should be (Then you could have places to strategically put the pod on that it will get mauled less) adding defensive walls and slowdown traps could also be incorporated. And am i going too far into Defense discussion in a Survival topic? I think i am... Nvm then

[-XeqtR]

It's so hilarious seeing all the nerdrage going on in this thread. I can see XeqtR and ReiganCross going at each other's throats and you're both missing some of the problems of this game.

 

XeqtR, you're assuming that, because Reigan isn't getting secondary supports, that he isn't killing anything, that he's 'standing in a room shooting at a wall'. I ran a Corpus survival recently where in the first five minutes I killed 100-200 targets, and through all of that only one secondary life support was dropped, forcing me to practically beg Lotus for enough drops for me to bug out after the five minute mark. So, that's not me failing to play the game, it's the game's secondary supports having such an abysmally low drop rate that there was absolutely no chance of me getting anywhere past the five minute mark.

On a different vein I also tend to run Grineer survivals to farm weapons, and in the past I have managed to hit 30+ runs with Loki, Rhino, Nyx, Oberon and Frost. Each has been solo and often several times. However, the frequency of these runs has gone down sharply for the following reasons:

 

1) Grineer not spawning. I'm aware of the 'don't move rooms' ethos making them spawn more often, but in solo that's simply not true. The spawn system works on the basis that 'if you can't see the area, it can spawn' but in reality this means that enemies will spawn in rooms that you aren't in and move towards you. This means in squads the players need to bunch together more to raise the spawn rate. In solo, this means as long as you aren't literally standing in a doorway between the largest corridor tile and the largest room tile, then enemies should be spawning in decent proximity. I've found the crossroad corridor tileset is the best for this because then the spawning areas aren't far away. However, this is then debunked by the fact that I can wait there for a minute without seeing so much as a butcher appear. I'm not moving, so what next? I have to go and take a look because my Oxygen is about to bottom out. So, I go to explore and spend the next while picking up Lotus drops because enemies aren't spawning.

 

2) Secondary support isn't dropping. I can appreciate how using Desecrate pulls life support out and makes things easier, but should it really be the sole way to run survival? First problem is that Nekros is the most expensive Warframe available, both if built in-game or bought through platinum. You should not have to construct one of the most resource-expensive Warframes to do something as intrinsic to RPG systems as level grinding, nor does it seem very fair to have to give up another Warframe which you perhaps want more than Nekros just because you need the spawn of the devil to play the mission. Alongside this, the secondary support drop rate is horrible, and if it's so low to the point that you need one specific Warframe, defying all concept of skill-games through using your method of choice, then time is wasted. If Nekros is required to play survival, then it's becoming as skill-oriented as Reigan's suggested zergfest. Loki's speed combined with a decent melee weapon makes him great and hit n' run, and along with his moveset he becomes a decent skill frame in every level, as he can simply cut through the ranks. What's this, oh, this guy was so ignorant of his own mortality he didn't need life support? None for you! Go ahead, kill another few hundred then maybe we'll think about it~

 

I've been saying all along that I agree that they should make it so Nekros isn't needed for survival. As for the rest of your statement, without seeing what you're actually doing I can't really pinpoint your problems. As I've said, I have countless runs where spawns are never an issue, on every tile-set. Who can really argue what anyone's personal experiences are if they weren't there? This works both ways. For all I know you somehow have crap rng luck and really are having no life support. The same goes for me, you weren't with me on my runs and I'm telling you from personal experience it's fine. I'll agree you probably can't last 5 minutes on green capsules alone, but if you picked up a blue intermittently you can easily last enough time. You're right on your solo argument. The staying in one room is probably only beneficial to a group since one person is only one camera angle. I did a solo the other day with an ash just running around randomly for 40min. It was the easiest thing in the world. Left because too many enemies swarming.

[ReiganCross]

Personally i feel that Survival always has a slow start and the end is always a spawnfest. It's like me killing the enemies in one room is allowing everything around me to spawn but i always end up having to pop at least one large Capsule under 5min, and sometimes i can go whole 5min without look at the capsule.

 

You know what? Those 5min i usually last without picking a single large capsule are awesome because i barely noticed that 5min passed as i'm organically killing everything in my sights. It works especially well with a Carrier that allows me not to bother to specifically walk on top of the capsule that sometimes you can miss by 0,2m and not get.

 

But hey, i think all of us here are agreeing that Survival needs changing. We can at least agree that Nekros is being too much of a necessity.

[MrBalalaika]

LS is S#&$ty harsh, so +1 on this topic.

 

When the mission actually starts to become a challenge, your mostly at critical point of ur LS%.

55min in Pluto/Hierachon no LS drops anymore, when u can hold out for longer!

That just ruin the whole fun in gameplay! 

 

I vote for this guy, in my survivals!

 

 

Greets,

 

MrBalalaika (Nekros is actually fun to play, when it's not a desecrate build!)