Hotfix Changes Needlessly Sadistic, May Destroy Playerbase

[MJ12]

Yeah, you heard me. I'm making a serious title here.

The changes to lethality are extremely excessive, especially if you play solo. This game is not, and was never meant as, a cover shooter. It has no cover system. Plenty of enemies have hitscan attacks which have zero windup and thus are very difficult to avoid. There is apparently a solo mode. If solo mode was the bug, please remove it.

Enemy lethality pre-Update 7.7 was okay. It was definitely challenging in Solo for someone of my skill (I'll admit I'm not the best player by far but I'm not the worst either), and I know at least one other person posting in this forums who agreed with that assessment (Cpl_Facehugger) isn't exactly bad at 3rd person shooters. None of us who were saying "Update 7.6 lethality was fine" were super-bad gamers who literally couldn't handle shooters. We were generally of somewhere around average skill. Maybe a bit better. It was fun to do in Solo. It was pretty easy in co-op but, well, the fun factor of playing with your buddies more than made up for it.

And you know, I wouldn't have minded some co-op scaling. But this new modification was just insane. I like this game as much as anyone, but I can't, in good faith, support a game which is basically unplayable for me. I am now content locked from basically half the content, simply because a couple of guys wanted Dark Souls or Nethack instead of, you know, a fun action-RPG third person shooter. This is awful. I've already put my money where my mouth is and provided support to this game. I've provided ideas. I've been patient with its changes, I've defended many of its alterations. I've tried to see the good in the game as well as the bad.

Unless this is supposed to be an abject illustration at why 'adding more difficulty to the game arbitrarily' isn't a good thing (and people aren't getting it) this update was awful. I rarely use that term because I'm not an ungrateful customer. I try to roll with the punches. But I can't here. Because the game is punching me in the $&*^ whenever I try to give it a chance. I don't like being punched in the $&*^. It hurts. But right now, this feels a lot like the start of an abusive relationship. And what I'm wondering is why. Am I really that bad a player that I should be stopped from finishing the game? Was solo really that easy? Is literally 90% of the playerbase here coming from Angry Birds and Farmville, and I'm the guy who scores last in every shooter everywhere? Was I supposed to find Pre-7.7 content absolutely trivial or something?

Maybe I should get out now. But I'm hoping that something can be salvaged, that these changes weren't intentional, that the difficulty was accidentally adjusted up to 11 when people wanted 2 or 3. And that's why I'm posting this. Because I haven't given up yet. And I hope you guys are listening to my heartfelt plea when I say that the new update's difficulty isn't doing anything. It just makes the game impossibly hard for all but a small and vocal segment of the playerbase, which is magnified because they were almost all powergamers (and thus almost all forumgoers), at the detriment of literally everyone else.

Edited April 4, 2013 by MJ12

[Xevious]

I could not agree more. THIS THIS THIS. This hotfix seriously took it too far.

[TheHiroyasu]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Xevious]

This thread needs to stay at the top of this section.

[AXCrusnik]

Did I miss something in the 7.7 hotfixes? I'm confused. I don't see any changes in the hotfix thread that would change lethality for Tenno or other factions, other than frame rate/fire rate issues.

[Reedman]

Did I miss something in the 7.7 hotfixes? I'm confused. I don't see any changes in the hotfix thread that would change lethality for Tenno or other factions, other than frame rate/fire rate issues.

Don't worry, you didn't miss anything. DE did.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/22456-update-77-hot-fixes/page__st__240#entry202461

Edited April 4, 2013 by Reedman

[MJ12]

Did I miss something in the 7.7 hotfixes? I'm confused. I don't see any changes in the hotfix thread that would change lethality for Tenno or other factions, other than frame rate/fire rate issues.

Yeah, they accidentally on purpose increased high-level enemy damage by a factor of approximately eleventy billion.

[Xenogear]

So I haven't played since update 7.5 because I'm waiting for Update 8 to hit for the reset so I can experience the game at a more complete state.. So I really have no idea what difficulty level the game is at the moment, but what they really should implement is a system that caters to all players solo and group.. They need a difficulty that if someone joins your game, it gets harder, if another person joins the game, it gets a little harder again, if someone drops.. the difficulty goes down..

[Ethasa]

The Feels are strong with this thread, may it continue and prosper.

[Antipop]

Yeah. Where does it talk about lethality changes in the patch notes?

[Telzen]

I wonder how bad it really is. It would be funny if its now just like how it was pre update 7, and all the newer players are just to used to ramboing it up.

[Xenogear]

Yeah. Where does it talk about lethality changes in the patch notes?

Maby its a late april fools joke!

[TheHiroyasu]

Go do Exta in Ceres with a bunch of lower level players like myself and have fun!

[CY13ERPUNK]

im confused

the game got harder for some ppl all of a sudden? didn't we just get some huge passive buffs to shield/hp/energy?

how did "solo" specifically get harder? I have apparently not noticed (i mostly solo since i hate rushers and/or lag)

[Telzen]

Maby its a late april fools joke!

One of the Devs was &!$$ed about all the *@##$ing saying it was too easy, so he is making us suffer till the next hotfix.

[MJ12]

I wonder how bad it really is. It would be funny if its now just like how it was pre update 7, and all the newer players are just to used to ramboing it up.

Well the problem is I played since Update 5 and the current difficulty is really badly broken.

Yeah. Where does it talk about lethality changes in the patch notes?

It wasn't actually stated but high-level enemies now do anywhere from two to something stupid like four-five times their damage.

[lronWolf]

Part of the appeal of Warframe, for me at least, was the idea that I'd be playing some sort of superpowered cybernetic samurai/knight cross, whose sheer skill in combat would be the only tool to overcome the hordes of expendable troops my misguided enemies would throw at me. The powers reflected this, giving me the ability to wipe out handfuls of enemies at the same time -- but never enough to clear a room and certainly not enough to make things "easy" except on the earliest levels.

[Scowlface2]

I agree with this. Enemy fire is now reaching levels where even a moment off guard runs the real risk of being killed. If the game is going to be so unforgiving, I'd rather find better entertainment elsewhere.

I would also have to question the rationale of lowering the rate of fire of full automatic rifles to lower than the Akbolto. Not to mention the erratic ammo consumption.

[Quetzhal]

Wait, so I'm not supposed to get facerolled when I try to solo the higher level missions? My life has been changed.

I'm kidding, of course, but you're right. Warframe is not supposed to be a cover game. Sure, you could argue that the game is "easy" (I just... can't we just have a hardmode for those players? I totally get that it is easy to some players but some of us are getting our asses kicked) because you can hide in a corner and pop out to shoot and slowly whittle away at the opponent's health, but if I wanted to do that, I wouldn't be playing this game. This game is fantastic because of the movement options, the versatility of everything you can do, and the fact that you can do a flying kick into someone's stomach and shoot them in the face while they're falling, then duck into a roll and come up slicing a different enemy in half.

Stuff like that.

The game should be rewarding you from moving place to place and for using the versatility of the system to the fullest (though it shouldn't be easy, either - I'm not sure how this could be implemented, honestly). Instead, you die if you duck out of cover for two seconds, even to move to a better position. Or sometimes you get swarmed and die anyway.

I dunno, just my two cents.

[wess23]

the difficulty comes more and more difficult

at some point guys like I will not play anymore

because I only play solo

[Kerrus]

I kinda have to agree. It's possible for me to get through the occasional mission, but only through judicious use of superspeed. Enemies coming? run away. I can't shoot them, because that does almost nothing. I can't hide from them because they're coming out of the walls. I can't take cover because there's no cover system and perching on top of a random doodad doesn't save me.

So it's pretty much just superspeed past, hope I'm on an objective grabbing or rescue or whatever mission and I can just run through without actually ever shooting or swording anything.

Because if I stop to fight, I die in two hits.

[Kanaris]

At least we can agree on something, MJ12. This update is ridiculous.

[CrystalRibbon]

https://forums.warfr...issing-details/

those were not intentional i suppose :o

Edited April 4, 2013 by CrystalRibbon

[OmegaPaladin]

Amen.

Let's be serious here. Warframe is a fundamentally a way to help the nice people at DE make a living. That's fine - I felt the game, even in beta, was worth at least as much as a normal title, and bought in. Warframe needs people to spend money on Platinum via microtransactions, and it needs a lot of people to spend money. Casual players have money that works just as well as that of elite players, after all, and solo players certainly have the same kind of money as regular multiplayers. Getting the large number of solo or two-player co-op types into the game is very helpful to the business side of things. I can't tell you how many games I or another person have quit a game because of a lack of friends to run with or being in the wrong time slot or otherwise being unable to play solo.

I fully support and endorse some type of challenge mode, probably with superior drop rates and/or extra affinity, that players could activate. WoW has heroic versions of instances, and there are plenty of similar mechanics of optionally boosting the challenge of the game. If they want a game that rolls out the full Ninja Gaiden / Kaizo Mario barrage, that's cool. They can run levels on Grandmaster (or what have you) difficulty, even if they want to solo.

I'm not as fond of compulsory group size scaling, because it reduces some of the incentive for people to play multiplayer. Being more powerful as a team is a great motivation for teamplay. I would prefer it over the current system, though.

[Deek]

i havent noticed it yet, threw on my Rhino potatoed, boltor potatoed, akboltos un p'ed and some sword (all levelled out to 30) and did some events, didnt phase me, except a couple of times on a map that I knew I'd struggle.

but as we know the game is heavy on making new weaps and frames to level the main part of our characters. Havin a break for a few mins/ hours and will put on my underdeveloped weaps and see, but i am considering the changes to our hp and shields. My thought's are maybe, perhaps its an attempt to fix to yesterdays points of the last fix made it too easy, I'm keeping in mind that we still and will get updates fast to fix changes untill its balanced, if there ever will be a balance. with alot of different roles/frames and play styles its pretty hard to get a good balance with all that in mind. yeh hard to get it perfect but it should be balanced that all roles at there perspective levels can enjoy gameplay without being over hit by mobs or underhit and the game becomes a "Im super ninja" get sick of it and leave because of lack of challenge.

good thread, possitive feedback.