Galatine Vs Jat Kittag Before And After Update 13.0

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Before update 13.0

- Galatine  with the monster charge attack (400 charge damage)

 

 

- Jat kittag  with the tornado charge attack (225 charge damage)

 

 

                             No comparison Galatine Charge Attack WINS (at least in damage)

 

After Update 13.0 (now)

 

- Galatine: Damage 45, Crit x2/10%, stat 20%, attack rate 1 per sec... and is the more slowest weapon in the game.

 

- Jat kittag: Damage 80, crit x1.5/5% stat 25%, attack rate 1 per sec... same speed than Galatine, slow but mortal and have the most funny AOE jump attack.

 

                            No comparison Jat Kittag WINS

 

But... lets try something: "crit damage without mods"

 

- Galatine : Damage 45 x2 = 90 with 10% crit chance.

 

   If you do 10 hits 1 does x2 damage... 10 hits = 45 (nine times) + 90 (one time) = 405 + 90 = 495 total damage.

 

- Jat Kittag : Damage 80 x1.5 = 120 with 5% crit chance.

 

   If you do 20 hits 1 does x1.5 damage... 20 hits = 80 (nineteen times) + 120 (one time) = 1520 + 120 = 1640 total damage.

 

Balancing this math.

 

- Galatine:  20 hits = 495 (10 hits total damage) x2 = 990  total damage

 

- Jat Kittag: 20 hits = 1640 total damage.

 

In conclusion: No comparison (again >.>) : Galatine now is a aesthetic weapon, this old friend needs more love/care. Need a URGENT buff (damage, speed... any will be fine)

[se05239]

The thing that buggers me the most is the idle animation.. It feels like you are holding a light-weight pole, not a massive jet-powered hammer or a large two handed sword.

Also, you don't take combos into your equations. 

I know that the spins from Cleaving Whirlwind on Galatine are devastating. They do a bonus 300% damage and you can hit an enemy twice per spin with 7 spins in total.

None of the stances for hammers feel good. 

[low1991]

unless there's a Melee weapon balance between each class, all melee will be the same.

it's funny to see a great sword 9galatine) doing crap dmg at 1 per second...

[shut]

Once again, drooling over numbers instead of taking animations, hitboxes, and mobility into account.

Edited May 6, 2014 by SortaRandom

[taiiat]

Galatine should have the longest Range of all Melee's in the game.

 

period.

 

that's like, it's main bonus if it was a real Sword. that it's a skyscraper with a handle.

 

and above average Damage per strike with a moderate Animation Speed would be sufficient.

 

 

Edit:

also rather bummed that Jat Kittag doesn't have it's unique Attack animation anymore(the cyclone). that was... pretty neat, why not keep it? make it different than the Stance version of it, so that it still has a purpose.

Edited May 6, 2014 by taiiat

[Grascen]

also rather bummed that Jat Kittag doesn't have it's unique Attack animation anymore(the cyclone). that was... pretty neat, why not keep it? 

 

Still exists in Crushing Ruin. In fact, the utility in the AOE knockdown it provides is crazy strong.

[egregiousRac]

Galatine should have the longest Range of all Melee's in the game.

 

period.

 

that's like, it's main bonus if it was a real Sword. that it's a skyscraper with a handle.

 

and above average Damage per strike with a moderate Animation Speed would be sufficient.

 

 

Edit:

also rather bummed that Jat Kittag doesn't have it's unique Attack animation anymore(the cyclone). that was... pretty neat, why not keep it? make it different than the Stance version of it, so that it still has a purpose.

 

Lecta does the same damage (worse crits though) at the same attack speed at a longer range, Scoliac is slightly better damage with better range and 1.3 attack speed. Given the cost, I think it makes sense for the Scoliac to be better, though it shouldn't hit harder per strike.

[Kietsu]

You are forgetting the most important part: Crushing Ruin is essentially the best stance in the game. Jat wins by landslide.

[taiiat]

Still exists in Crushing Ruin. In fact, the utility in the AOE knockdown it provides is crazy strong.

 

make it different than the Stance version of it, so that it still has a purpose.

i know, Crushing Ruin has a type of Animation like that. but Jat Kittag is Clantech, it should still be unique.

[ss4chris]

im fine with the galatine the way it is and seems strong and fine to me  if you mod it like normal. but thats just my opinion.

[ShadowFighter88]

Are you taking channeling into account with these?  Because I think the melee weapons that had a large charge damage bonus before Melee 2.0 are meant to be used with channeling.  That's just my impression, though, based on how they made the old charge altering mods became channel altering mods.

[Teljaxx]

Comparing the base stats of two different categories of weapons like this is pointless. The stances that a weapon can use are much more important than their stats. The Cleaving Whirlwind stance adds a massive damage bonus over the base damage of the Galatine with the Broken Bull spin combo, and I assume that Crushing Ruin is similar with some of its combos. And there are even some stances that deal less damage with certain attacks.

 

So a more accurate comparison would be comparing the Gram to the Galatine, because they can both use the same stances, and therefore get the same attribute modifications from those stances.

 

I also find it funny that everyone uses the Galatine as the exemplary worst weapon in the game, when the Gram is inferior even to it. Its measly two point damage advantage does not make up for the fact that it is both slower, and shorter ranged than the Galatine. At least the Scindo deals significantly more damage than the Galatine to make up for its comparatively short range, but the Gram does not even have that. So if any of the greatsword type weapons needs a buff, it is the Gram.

 

I made a topic about this a few days ago, but apparently I forgot to turn off its cloaking device, and no one saw it.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225574-gram-vs-galatine/#entry2612779

[ViLeDeth]

Uhh... add cleaving whirlwind and proper mods and gal hits over 100k crit in spin combo.

Edited May 6, 2014 by ViLeDeth

[RadiantProxy]

Edit:

also rather bummed that Jat Kittag doesn't have it's unique Attack animation anymore(the cyclone). that was... pretty neat, why not keep it? make it different than the Stance version of it, so that it still has a purpose.

 

I bet the guy who did the animation for Jat's charge attack is really disappointed, since it got removed from the game.

[Rainbee]

I bet the guy who did the animation for Jat's charge attack is really disappointed, since it got removed from the game.

 

I'm pretty sure the whole art division is really dissapointed.

[taiiat]

Comparing the base stats of two different categories of weapons like this is pointless. The stances that a weapon can use are much more important than their stats. The Cleaving Whirlwind stance adds a massive damage bonus over the base damage of the Galatine with the Broken Bull spin combo, and I assume that Crushing Ruin is similar with some of its combos. And there are even some stances that deal less damage with certain attacks.

and here lies the main problem.

 

Stances are modifying stats.

 

 

Melee's will all be out of balance because of that. 

 

they are supposed to be packages of Animations and effects for different playstyles, not stat changes. since some don't change stats, some increase stats, and some decrease stats. none of these options are good.

[Teljaxx]

and here lies the main problem.

 

Stances are modifying stats.

 

 

Melee's will all be out of balance because of that. 

 

they are supposed to be packages of Animations and effects for different playstyles, not stat changes. since some don't change stats, some increase stats, and some decrease stats. none of these options are good.

 

 

It is not really a problem, as long as the stat changes are compensated for with other things. Like if the stance reduces damage, then it also increases speed. Or if the base stats of a weapon are weak, then a stance can have a large damage bonus on its harder to pull off combo to make up for it. The only problem with this is that it makes it harder to compare weapons to each other, because their base stats are not their true stats with a stance equipped.

 

This is how the Broken Bull combo on the Cleaving Whirlwind stance works. The Galatine may not deal anywhere enough damage to be useful on its own, but with that combo it becomes powerful enough to be effective.

 

And as a basic rule, the harder the combo is to pull off, the harder it should hit. So the basic button mashing combo should not have any damage bonuses to it, but the ones that use a hold or a pause can be much more powerful.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I think if only DE can Buff Galatine in attack OR speed (not both), that will do Galatine atractive again (leaving aesthetics aside). Remember is a "Heavy Weapon Class" , normally heavy is balanced with power/damage.

 

Stances mods change a little some status, but is very annoying, very slow in each hit doing low damage even if you try make it "strong" with strong mode mods (Pressure point + spoiled strike + Fury + Jagged Edge + elemental mods or any mod you want)

 

Spoiled Strike (+100% damage - 20% attack speed) + Fury (+30% attack speed) = +10% total attack speed (Attack rate 1.1 hit per sec)

 

With AOE jump attack, Galatine have "Relatively large AoE radius"... Jat Kittag have "Very large Jump Attack radius"

 

If you want make it more fast you will sacrifice damage. Also Deathcopter is good only if you use "Cleaving Whirlwind", but if you want use the another stance "Rending Crane" you will notice the slowness.

[IANOBW]

The thing that buggers me the most is the idle animation.. It feels like you are holding a light-weight pole, not a massive jet-powered hammer or a large two handed sword.

 

It is funny when you realise your tenno is just walking around casually with a jet-engine on a stick

[se05239]

It is funny when you realise your tenno is just walking around casually with a jet-engine on a stick

 

Its ridiculous, not funny. It seriously doesn't look good.

[RXZ71]

Its ridiculous, not funny. It seriously doesn't look good.

Eh I loved it.

[taiiat]

And as a basic rule, the harder the combo is to pull off, the harder it should hit. So the basic button mashing combo should not have any damage bonuses to it, but the ones that use a hold or a pause can be much more powerful.

which is fine.

 

but that's not how Stances are. they're tweaking stats globally, which makes no sense at all. they should not be editing your Weapons. they are sets of animations, not Corrupted Mods that change half the attributes of your Melee when equipped.

 

and how do you balance globally edited stats for Melee? you don't. you can't.

 

change how the Combo's work, and that's it. some of these have the right idea, such as Iron Phoenix. it isn't editing the Melee's stats, it's giving a set of Animations and some nice bonuses like staggers and knockdowns. i would also be very okay with ending strikes in Combo's having Damage Multipliers.

but there is no justification for a Stance having a Damage, Speed, Efficiency, or any other Modifier a Stance may be using now, just from equipping a Stance.