I've Had It With The Invasion System.

[(PSN)USRevenge2]

@geomancer1980

I've done multiple 60 minute survivals on egeria before it was invaded and got ONE delta beacon.

And that was with TWO nekros desecrating at the same time to even further improve our odds of getting those beacons.

And yes, this was after the drop rate improvement.

Since egeria was invaded I have done 6 35 round runs on casta, meaning 30 prosecutors per run (as they spawn 1 per wave from wave 5 onwards), and that was with a nekros.

That means 360 beacon drops in total.

And no delta beacons to show for it.

So no, he was never easy to get to and has always been a pain the &#!.

Now they only spawn in Exta and Casta.

Out of 12 runs on Exta I got 4 prosecutors.

And casta becomes very tiresome to farm on especially with how long it can take compared to the survival missions.

I pitty  players who want to get hydroid right now...

 

conversely, with nekros I got 5 delta in 3, 15 wave runs on casta.

[FourZeroNine]

It's all about that Brakk for people, logic be damned! BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK!

 

...*cough* If you haven't noticed yet, I've grown cynical beyond belief, and need to be brainwashed again. Excuse me.

[Aercascade]

It's all about that Brakk for people, logic be damned! BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK BRAKK!

 

...*cough* If you haven't noticed yet, I've grown cynical beyond belief, and need to be brainwashed again. Excuse me.

 

What I find funny, is when people argue that they want there special weapon to be made special and difficult to obtain and expect people to fight for the Grineer side instead of farming for the brakk.

Crazy, right?

[Yurilica]

I had a feeling this would happen, I just wanted to believe that the player base wasn't so short-sighted as to not be aware that this would happen. 

 

Only 2 nodes on Ceres haven't been invaded yet, which are still under Grineer Control. Then there's two being invaded right now. This really is a problem, especially if Prosecuters don't spawn on Exta.

 

Actually, the community isn't the one that's short-sighted, DE was in this particular occasion.

 

The community is simply demonstrating how poorly DE designed the whole Vay Hek process by going after the biggest flaw in the system.

 

It's up to DE to fix it.

[Kazzamo]

Actually, the community isn't the one that's short-sighted, DE was in this particular occasion.

 

The community is simply demonstrating how poorly DE designed the whole Vay Hek process by going after the biggest flaw in the system.

 

It's up to DE to fix it.

 

No it's not. See this is the issue, players ask for choice to matter in games, then when the player base gets a chance they make a choice to damage the game. DE has no reason to fix anything, it's the communities fault end of story.

[Somedude1000]

THIS is why grind is horrible for a so called "fast paced game"

 

Godspeed :D

[low1991]

My idea of war in this game is a wide, open area on a planet where corpus and grineer infinitely spawn and the war just doesn't stop. Tenno  who are supporting both sides will engage in PvP combat while dealing with NPCs. We have access to vehicles for mobility and can use gun emplacements. Think Planetside 2 with a Warframe twist.

if that's the case, why are u still here? go play your planetside 2.

[Aercascade]

if that's the case, why are u still here? go play your planetside 2.

 

Ideas are fine. What have you contributed to this discussion mate?

[Zeromanicus]

There should be one system/planet that the Grineer/Corpus are fighting over constantly.

[Yurilica]

No it's not. See this is the issue, players ask for choice to matter in games, then when the player base gets a chance they make a choice to damage the game. DE has no reason to fix anything, it's the communities fault end of story.

 

Why of course you're right.

 

There's no issue in the fact that DE didn't provide homebase planets/moons to factions, ones that can't be invaded, right? Right? That would be too complicated.

 

Players don't implement systems available to them - DE does.

It's DE's responsibility to implement new systems while taking existing systems into account.

 

Do players have design notes and access to actual game code? You say no?

 

Then i fail to see how it's the fault of the community.

 

This issue has been pointed out since the introduction of the new Vay Hek fight. A month has passed for an issue that should've been in the very first hotfix. DE still hasn't done anything about it.

Since they underestimate the issue that it raises, the community will simply demonstrate the flaw. I know dozens of players that are going for Corpus on Ceres whenever there's a chance, simply because of how obvious of a flaw it is. I'm joining them occasionally simply because of how ridiculous the whole system is.

 

TL;DR - either you design stuff with both a bit of foresight and hindsight as a game designer, or it comes to bite you in the &#! like this. And bit it sure did.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Yurilica

[RoboDoge]

Why of course you're right.

 

There no issue in the fact that DE didn't provide homebase planets/moons to factions, ones that can't be invaded, right? Right? That would be too complicated.

Nobody realize that this turn of event is somewhat good for DE. In short terms.

 

 

Looking at this from players perspective, it is quite bad. Locking content and making it Platinum only. But if you look at it from DE side, it is same as Vauban issue. If you want the frame, you have to pay and i dont think they will do much because of that.

 

 

Tho, this cannot be good in long run. This is bad precedent that could ruin whole game if left unsolved.

Edited May 12, 2014 by RoboDoge

[low1991]

Ideas are fine. What have you contributed to this discussion mate?

none at the moment.

i'm waiting for the U14 or the tenno personal ships to out before contributing.

[Frostosti]

tbh i dont understand a thing of the invasions, i dont care who wins, and i will only play them if the reward is good and couldnt care less for which side that is.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Short-term this issue in the system, especially on Ceres with the beacons, needs to be addressed and should come with a change this week on PC that includes an element of 'homeworld' advantage.

The nature of the missions themselves - 5 of the same - was brought up as well. The main point that the repetition is too much in this system has been emphasized.

 

Peripheral discussions on reward/social choices can definitely continue, but please remain respectful and constructive.

 

(EDIT: Also moved to Feedback)

[Aercascade]

none at the moment.

i'm waiting for the U14 or the tenno personal ships to out before contributing.

 

Then don't shoot somebody down for giving out constructive suggestions.

[se05239]

Short-term this issue in the system, especially on Ceres with the beacons, needs to be addressed and should come with a change this week on PC that includes an element of 'homeworld' advantage.

 

Rewards themselves don't matter. Some people only focus on one faction. 

Credit rewards are a joke, doing a two-three 5 minute Dark Sector runs give you more money than 5 invasions + rewards all together.

 

The nature of the missions themselves - 5 of the same - was brought up as well. The main point that the repetition is too much in this system has been emphasized.

 

This has been mentioned ever since Invasions were added. 5 missions, the same number of enemies of the same kind of enemies each run are extremely grindy and tedious.

[Demon_Mask]

I think that when infested invade, it resets the node to the original owning faction

[victor_victory]

I think many people intentionally support corpus in Ceres just to troll new players and DE. None the less, we are still the one who decide which faction wins the invasion. If corpus getting Ceres is against our interest we shouldn't let that happen in the first place.

Also, Brakk is not really the major reason at all. There were several invasions up other than Ceres. We can simply play other invasion mission for Brakk and support grineer in Ceres all the way.    

[Vunie]

Grineer shouldn't be able to invade Jupiter and corpus shouldn't be able to invade Ceres 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

conversely, with nekros I got 5 delta in 3, 15 wave runs on casta.

3 20 min runs for 6. I didn't even end up using 4 of them yet as people were regularly looking to fill out a run. Lucked on Hydroid, 5 runs and he is underway.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

I think many people intentionally support corpus in Ceres just to troll new players and DE. None the less, we are still the one who decide which faction wins the invasion. If corpus getting Ceres is against our interest we shouldn't let that happen in the first place.

Also, Brakk is not really the major reason at all. There were several invasions up other than Ceres. We can simply play other invasion mission for Brakk and support grineer in Ceres all the way.

I doesn't seem to be the invasions so much as parts of the community acting against there own or others best interest.

[The_Markness]

 (Not to mention the RNG grindwalls made him hard to reach anyway.)

 

It isn't even that bad of a RNG grindwall, just that bloody delta beacon, like it was purpusefull ultra rare.

I've farmed enough other beacons to make a dozen keys while looking for deltas.

Edited May 12, 2014 by The_Markness

[Phaenur]

they should change invasions to make them fun and loot should be something like defense (where you can leave after something)

 

maybe have some sort of league of legends style mode, where both teams sent units through the map and the tenno are tasked with helping the side they want to support. have 3 checkpoints each with a better reward than the last but proceeding means tougher enemies.  have the drops be good so it isn't a chore and boom invasions aren't terrible.

 

This is a really good idea.  Since PvP is such a provocative topic let's just keep it out of the picture for now - the Tenno and their allies push through increasingly dense and Heavy-filled spawn waves of the other team.  Battle pay can be based on five successful runs, or three, or even just one, or whatever combination of points the team decides to stick through before extracting, and the number of points scored naturally increases the impact on the battle progression.

 

Still, it's only one gametype - I'd like to see options for Invasion modes similar to the Alliance selection screen or Nightmare tab, where you get to pick whichever mission you feel most interested in.  Obvious choices are the existing Exterminate (good for low-level players/gear), Survival (counts as one Exterminate per ten minutes, I'd say), Defense (maybe negates the *other* team's next point gain for every ten waves), Interception if it's ever moved off the Earth tileset (a point for every successful round plus a, say, 33% increase in the next gain your team gets) and your suggestion here (replaces Exterminate, probably), although cases could be made for the other mission types.  All those differences in score are arbitrary on my part, but I figure it adds a bit of strategy in with personal preference.

 

On top of that, I'd like to see other maps contribute to active invasions somehow.  Whatever faction is holding a node suffers the negative consequences associated with the mission type, making it easier for factions to rally once they've lost more than half of their territory in a sector.  This makes even more sense in the wake of the Red Blade and New Rescue, since there's now at least one minor faction running around sabotaging both the Corpus and the Grineer.  The other mission types would have a variety of effects - Capture and Assassinate would double the next point gain by the other faction, Rescue would increase the next point gain for the other faction by 33% and decrease the node-owner's next gain by the same, Deception would be a 50% hit to the node holder while Spy and Mobile Defense would be a 50% boost to their rival, and so on (actually, did I already cover them all?).  Again, values are arbitrary, and wave-based increases I feel should broaden every tier instead of strengthening, applying to more consecutive missions rather than increasing the bonus to one.

 

My idea is hardly a cure-all, but there are other thoughts out there.  In any case, it only addresses half the problem (tedious gameplay).  Players really aren't motivated by anything but the reward at this point, while we saw the Grineer teams in particular ignoring better pay in favor of faction solidarity during Gradivus.  We need to see commanders with personality and "meaningful" objectives in each sector.  Instead of it just being "The Grineer are taking over the whole solar map in three weeks" or "I want my Brakk so I'm throwing in with the Corpus anyway" it becomes a micro-Gradivus with the sort of roleplay questions that one had.  It becomes "hey, the Grineer are marching into Alad's territory.  That automatically gives them my support" or "do I really trust the Corpus with Ceres shipyard data?  Imagine what *they* could do with Formorian cores!"  This could be worked into codex entries for the sectors that you unlock by completing all the nodes, or into letters at the start of each campaign, or into dialogue for Corpus and Grineer commanders for each sector, or whatever.  DE hasn't done this on such a large scale before, but they're certainly creative enough to handle it well.

 

One last thing - I'm really hoping that Proxy Wars/minor factions/whatever they're calling them these days add another dynamic into the Invasion system.  They might be more nuanced and sympathetic than the Grineer or Corpus ever will be, meaning we'll once again have reasons to debate which side is "right" on the forums and throw ourselves wholeheartedly into the conflicts.  Sure, a lot of people really are just in it for the reward, and at least some degree of faction solidarity in Gradivus was because the Brakk/Detron and clan rewards required you to commit to one side or the other, but considering what the forums looked like during the old event I can also confidently say that it would motivate people to use the system more than they currently do.  Of course, the gameplay needs to be updated before any but the most devoted players dive into it, but that's what suggestion threads are for.

[(PSN)Skarpar]

Perhaps as a short term option are that after each major update the map is reset back to is original owners that way when new content hits all mobs are availible as needed.

 

However, a long term solution, such as homeworld areas cannot be invaded or even some form of linked invasions where there cannot be more nodes of one faction than the other (of equal level and within reason) - so if an invasion happens on neptune by corpus (and they win on several nodes) then an invasion of grineer happens in ceres (and if they don't win another occurs until the numbers are more balenced).

[Bloomers]

The invasion system is just... awkward.  It brings alerts back in a (slightly) longer time-frame depending on the rewards.  Tons of robots in a place with massive rain and dangerous water?  I would have liked to see invasions if new enemy types for factions came with so it didn't seem so out of place.  Grineer in a frosty outpost?  

 

Overall specific mob resource drops are absurd in terms of design.  I'm not one to call this game grindy or a farm-fest, but this really just shouts "we want you to farm" rather than giving us a mid-boss level for these specifically, making them a container/locker drop, or just a faction drop.  

 

Now I can enjoy a good farm but I'd like to not be playing the game of "useless mob" "useless mob" "useless mob" "slightly less useless mob with resource I need."  The mods already do a good job of that IMO