I've Had It With The Invasion System.

[Ronyn]

The nature of the missions themselves - 5 of the same - was brought up as well. The main point that the repetition is too much in this system has been emphasized.

Quick note on the repetition issue.

 

Now I get that there needs to be a good chunk of work the player has to do to get the battlepay.

We don't want to loose that or it becomes too quick and easy.

The issue is the feeling of repetition.

Primarily the repetitive feeling comes from having to leave the mission and return to it.

By having to return to the mission screen it interrupts the flow.

 

Let me explain it like this.

For survival missions, instead of it being "Complete a survival mission 5 times"

Make so the player has to "complete a total of 25 minutes of survival." 

That way well geared players can complete it in one long run.

But then less geared players can break it up and do smaller amounts of time over and over as they want to.

This way it.would not feel nearly as repetitive even though you are fighting the same number of minutes,

That is essentially because, it allows the player to enter kind of a flow state.

Make the system so you have to do the same amount of work but it doesn't break the flow. 

 

Another example: 

Why am I doing 5 defense missions missions where I end up doing 5 rounds then leaving.

Just make it so I have to do a total of 25 rounds.

That way well geared players can complete it in one long run.

But then less geared players can break it up and do smaller amounts of time over and over as they want to.

 

And another:

Why am I doing 5 exterminate missions where I kill 50 badguys each.

Just give me one awesome exterminate mission where I have to kill 250 badguys.

The cool tileset where the corpus and grineer ship smash together would really be a really good map to have a much larger amount of enemies to battle than it does now. Just keep them coming, poor it on. Make it feel like taking back a ship is a big deal.

Would feel much more meaningful than doing a quick run of a moderately populated ship 5 times.

 

See what I'm getting at?

Same work, more flow, less interruptions, less repetition.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Ronyn

[SableSonata]

Also, Brakk is not really the major reason at all. There were several invasions up other than Ceres. We can simply play other invasion mission for Brakk and support grineer in Ceres all the way.    

 

Brakk is the major reason. Corpus are dominating because the Brakk is about 10 times harder to get than the Detron, and it's better to boot. Everyone wants a Brakk and because it's hidden behind so much RNG, there will always be more people looking for Brakk than for Detron, even if they had come out at the same time.

 

It doesn't help that they nerfed rewards for invasions hard. Rewards now are typically 30-50% of what they used to be, and occasionally, we get up to 70% of what we used to with credits. With such pitiful rewards for 5 boring missions, the only real reason to do invasions is either Fieldron/Detonite/Mutagen farming, or hunting for the G3/Harvester. If the invasion is credits vs. credits (especially equal amounts), virtually everyone who runs it is going after the Detron or Brakk. Mostly the Brakk though.

[Dogoframe]

...but please remain respectful and constructive.

It would be much more fair if that worked both ways. Respectful, so Devs dont announce Specters as possible locations for ability MODs as the only good idea/feedback given on the matter, and constructive, so bad design choices are not band-aid fixed with the removal of a truely new game mode with one that only serves to control how long players spend on Dark Sector Conflicts.

[Anunymau5]

DE, I have a solution for you guys. Instead of making Ceres impossible to invade, have battlefield planets throughout the solar system. Graveyards of destroyed ships while the Grineer and Corpus continue to fight inside. So why not have the invasions limited to these areas, it could allow for players to continue to have the invasion missions without losing anything important. Like prosecutors.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

My big issue is not the invasion system itself. My problem is the diminishing rewards introduced ever since DE introduced this 'faction desperation' system. We used to get five fieldron for five runs. This is no longer the case. Our efforts are cut down by over a third in reward:grind ratio.

On top of that, there's potato invasions and the ticket system. Tickets should be awarded upon starting, not completing, and then used on completion. This means if you start a mission and the invasion finishes before the mission, you still get your potato. Same with sector battles, this removes 'battle pay fraud' entirely. All it takes is one quick fix, and I don't see why DE doesn't want to kill two birds with one stone. It defies all logic and is incredibly unrewarding.

[Kazzamo]

This issue has been pointed out since the introduction of the new Vay Hek fight. A month has passed for an issue that should've been in the very first hotfix. DE still hasn't done anything about it.

Since they underestimate the issue that it raises, the community will simply demonstrate the flaw. I know dozens of players that are going for Corpus on Ceres whenever there's a chance, simply because of how obvious of a flaw it is. I'm joining them occasionally simply because of how ridiculous the whole system is.

 

TL;DR - either you design stuff with both a bit of foresight and hindsight as a game designer, or it comes to bite you in the &#! like this. And bit it sure did.

 

Okay, so you're using a game system that allows the player base to actively have choice in shaping the solar system and intentionally making the keys even harder to get? Tell me again how it's not the players that are the problem there? People know how the key work was pretty obvious in the update. You don't need to see game code to know about prosecutors.

 

And for the fix of homeworlds and such. Long term they plan for every planet to have its own tile set and very well might end up having their own mission types or special mechanic like the prosecutors. That's a temp fix and honestly? It's not needed. If they do that they might as well remove invasions completely, either they have an effect or they don't. Have some responsibility for our actions as players, we were given a choice and we chose to break it. That's our fault.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Kazzamo

[Histori]

Peripheral discussions on reward/social choices can definitely continue, but please remain respectful and constructive.

This means we know that the invasion missions are repetitive we made them like that and also we won't change them,we are in Beta and all that same stuff all over same answers again and again.

I hope my post is respectful and constructive well i hope al least is respectful.

Regards.

[Aggh]

Short-term this issue in the system, especially on Ceres with the beacons, needs to be addressed and should come with a change this week on PC that includes an element of 'homeworld' advantage.

The nature of the missions themselves - 5 of the same - was brought up as well. The main point that the repetition is too much in this system has been emphasized.

 

Peripheral discussions on reward/social choices can definitely continue, but please remain respectful and constructive.

 

(EDIT: Also moved to Feedback)

It needs to be more than just a points advantage though.  They need a battle pay advantage on their homeworlds or they'll get run over regardless.

[Moderius]

Invasions are great.

 

Exterminate game mode, however, is not.

[Llyssa]

Ceres, mostly taken over by the Corpus. The problem?

 

Prosecutors. As soon as all the Grineer nodes are taken over, no more Vay Hek. Your only way to get back those nodes is to fight for them, which considering how pro-Corpus the community is over this brings great shame and disappointment.

 

Pluto, in the same boat. The problem?

 

Pluto is the shared endgame map, but now Grineer inhabit all the spots for Corpus. Now some of the best spots for exp. and oxium are gone.

 

And this won't be fixed until the invasion system is changed. Don't just add another fight for these guys and you get something special because then Grineer will have most of the power. Your letting something that was meant to make the sol system a dynamic place is now locking away content and making it hard for new players still and anti-grind. You can't even buy the beacons, but this is just adding to the p2w perception of your f2p model. (If you just wanted my invasion complaints, stop reading here.)

 

I'm not going to play again until some fresh content or an overhaul comes by. Thanks DE for the time, but you continuing to ignore the system's glaring issues of total system domination and unnamed others has left a bad taste my mouth. It was fun while it lasted, but not going back for a while.

I'd like to note, as the Lech Kril boss node is a shipyard, there will always be prosecutors available, no matter what else happens.

[RealPandemonium]

DE will probably just offer better rewards for Grineer side in the eventual counterattack.  They also might roll out an event that addresses the problem.  In the meantime you can always hunt for prosecutors in Exta since boss nodes cannot be conquered. The Vay Hek grindwall isn't even that bad and with Nekros it gets even easier.  You can also just camp Recruit chat if you're lazy and leech on another player's key.

[Dogoframe]

So let me see if I understand... The feedback given by some players is that, because the company released content that is poorly designed, we should resign ourselves to hypothetically play a single boss node, and be glad that the current design generously allows us to farm incredibly rare beacons in the same mission, maybe encountering 3 Prosecutors per run? Especially when the game has a still flawed connection system where players often lose anything they acquired in a mission due to crashes?

[Tsukinoki]

@Dogoframe
I wish I had your luck with getting 3 prosecutors per run of Exta.
After 12 runs I had seen 4 in total.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Pizzarugi]

The 5-mission requirement and the 100+ enemies you need to kill can take its toll on you. Especially because doing the same mission again and again is really boring. The Gradivus dilemma event is a clear example of such. Doing 100 missions for 100 points, who doesn't get tired? But hey, at least we got a free weapon that was event exclusive, right? Wrong. DE made it available to the players who didn't participate in the Gradivus Dilemma event which almost crushes the effort players put into the event. 

And these same players have the audacity to complain that G3 are too hard and greedy of their brakk drops, when the brakk was originally exclusive to an event some of us grinded to death for.

Hey DE, when are you going to open up the strun wraith to the public, or the braton vandal? How about some of the other exclusive weapons and mods? I wasn't around for those events, but I feel entitled to them just like people wanting the brakk yet weren't around to get it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Dogoframe]

@Dogoframe

I wish I had your luck with getting 3 prosecutors per run of Exta.

After 12 runs I had seen 4 in total.

 Truth be told I only played Prosecutor runs to help a friend. I refuse to try and fight Vay Hek while this asinine RNG² mechanic is in place. I dont really remember how many Prosecutors we managed to get in Exta by bugging the alarms, but I am sure your experience is a more accurate example than my hypothesis.

[RealPandemonium]

Remember, people, Invasion occupations are temporary.  Do not act as if this is going to last more than a few weeks.

[Katinka]

There's no issue in the fact that DE didn't provide homebase planets/moons to factions, ones that can't be invaded, right? Right? That would be too complicated.

 

 

Are you aware that Mercury, Venus and Earth can't be invaded?  Stick Prosecutors on Earth and it would all be fine.  Would make sense too what with the Frontier Regulators still spouting Vay Hek speechs and the Vay Hek fight being on an Earth map (with void resource drops for some reason.)

 

However, the Ceres situation is completely the fault of players who decided to stick it to DE.  If people had instead decided to support Grineer to retain access to Prosecutors there would be no problem.  DE made a situation possible, yes, but players chose the path to that situation.  It's called 'Cutting your nose off to spite your face'.  You think you are making a point but really you are only hurting yourself.

[Tsukinoki]

@Katinka
Actually Earth *can* be invaded, as evidenced by the PS4.
We just have been lucky enough that it hasn't happened over here yet on the PC side.

So far only Mercury and Venus have proven to be un-invadable.  And that really needs to change.

[Pizzarugi]

Are you aware that Mercury, Venus and Earth can't be invaded?  Stick Prosecutors on Earth and it would all be fine.  Would make sense too what with the Frontier Regulators still spouting Vay Hek speechs and the Vay Hek fight being on an Earth map (with void resource drops for some reason.)

 

However, the Ceres situation is completely the fault of players who decided to stick it to DE.  If people had instead decided to support Grineer to retain access to Prosecutors there would be no problem.  DE made a situation possible, yes, but players chose the path to that situation.  It's called 'Cutting your nose off to spite your face'.  You think you are making a point but really you are only hurting yourself.

It has nothing to do with spiting DE, it has to do with brakk farming. The only way to get marked by the G3 is to fight for the corpus.

The brakk and detron should remain event exclusive, take them away from stalker rewards and lock them away, and watch as the corpus focus start to dwindle.

EDIT: It maaaaaaay also have to do with oxium farming as well. Given that a number of things require a large amount of it and you only get so few at a time, opening more zones to corpus control give people more places to farm for it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Pizzarugi

[Yurilica]

 It's not needed. If they do that they might as well remove invasions completely, either they have an effect or they don't. Have some responsibility for our actions as players, we were given a choice and we chose to break it. That's our fault.

 

Tell me more about how a permanent home system for factions and resource-exclusive mobs is not needed.

 

Have you interacted with humans at all? You know, actual people of different ages and backgrounds?

If you leave people an option to mess around with a system without repercussions, they'll do it. Always, 100% sure.

Just because they can.

Solution - patch up the system, don't rely on people's good will, don't be naive.

 

 

 

 

However, the Ceres situation is completely the fault of players who decided to stick it to DE.  

 

 

If you mean that the players actually decided to demonstrate what a poor decision it was to place exclusive mobs on a system that can be invaded, then yes, it's their "fault".

 

Consider that it took that much to get DE's attention about the matter. If this didn't happen, DE would've just considered this a minor issue and never dealt with it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Yurilica

[DarknightK]

Here's the Solution:

 

Get rid of Prosecutors and place Vay Hek back on Everest with his updated model. Simple solution. Get cracking DE.

 

 

And about the Battle Pay issue:

 

Implement the "Faction" system that Dev has been talking about. Gaining favors with the Grineer/Corpus will scale with better rewards per node. So no longer will Battle Pay be locked "25000 credits" or "35000 credits" for everyone. Now, players will have a chance to get different rewards based on their Faction Standing. A Faction Rank 0 player may be offered 25k credits, while a Faction Rank 5 Player is offered 50k, or even 3 Orokin Cells.

 

Finally, the monotony:

 

The only way I see to solve this problem is to randomize Invasion missions. The mission your group will do however, will be displayed on the mission screen, just to be fair. This may not work too greatly however, for those who are immediately thrust into games without a chance to prepare.

[Katinka]

It has nothing to do with spiting DE, it has to do with brakk farming. The only way to get marked by the G3 is to fight for the corpus.

 

 

I guess you missed all the "Support Corpus so DE HAVE to change how we reach Vay Hek/the Invasion system"  threads then.  There have been a fair few vocal people supporting the idea that the player base should force DE to act by creating a problem.  I consider this a monumentally stupid idea as it will only hurt players.  The problem only exists because players made it exist.  They saw a possibility for it to happen and chose to make it happen instead of choosing to prevent it.  The fact that Grineer still win some invasions (see Pluto, as mentioned in OP) shows that the power of the brakk is not the only factor here.

 

 

@Katinka

Actually Earth *can* be invaded, as evidenced by the PS4.

We just have been lucky enough that it hasn't happened over here yet on the PC side.

So far only Mercury and Venus have proven to be un-invadable.  And that really needs to change.

 

Took a while to find it Update 12.2.0

- Omitted Venus/Earth being eligible for Grineer or Corpus invasions to not throw off new player path.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Katinka

[Pizzarugi]

I guess you missed all the "Support Corpus so DE HAVE to change how we reach Vay Hek/the Invasion system"  threads then. 

Most likely I missed them, yeah. When did it occur? I only got back into the game when U13 came out, after stopping for a while after U11.

 

I will, however, partially agree with those people who support Corpus to spite DE. DE's biggest flaw is that they're too open to accepting suggestions from the community and suffer from 'you give an inch, they walk all over you'. The developers do need to put their foot down from time to time, and they need to learn when it is a good time to do so.

They should've kept Vay Hek on Earth, but if they insist on locking him behind a key, then they should allow prosecutors to always show up on Ceres no matter which faction owns the node. If Corpus own a node, then prosecutors can be seen as raiders. If the Grineer own a node, then they can be seen as defenders.

[Kazzamo]

 DE's biggest flaw is that they're too open to accepting suggestions from the community and suffer from 'you give an inch, they walk all over you'. The developers do need to put their foot down from time to time, and they need to learn when it is a good time to do so.

 

 

And now is that perfect time to do it. They should do /nothing/ about Ceres. The community decided to make this mess with invasions and the community should fix it. Not DE.

 

They want to alter invasion missions to be more entertaining? Fine. They want to make a faction offer better rewards more often when they are losing one of their worlds? Great. But They should never switch a planet back, take back a choice like removing Hek from Earth (however they should make some kinda new grineer boss to put there, and every other planet without bosses), or make more planets invasion proof aside from the first  two new player planets.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Kazzamo

[taiiat]

The nature of the missions themselves - 5 of the same - was brought up as well. The main point that the repetition is too much in this system has been emphasized.

the mission types aren't terrible, they're okay, but they're just almost identical the 5 times. 

 

more variety of the tiles and Enemy groups would really help.

 

the Dungeonmaster could respond to situations many different ways in the Invasions. handling the situation differently all the time so that it doesn't feel like you're doing the exact same thing 5 times.