Reasonable Balance (Buff + Nerf) For Reflection

[Mastikator2]

Currently Reflection reflects and amplifies damage upon blocking, and it perfectly reflects damage back to the attacker. This is very OP in conclaves while also being not that great in PVE, which isn't that great. The game is primarily PVE, all mods should be viable in PVE (I think we can all agree on this). And I have an idea that I think will solve both problems and make every reasonable person happy.

 

First off, increase the amplification, second, it reflects in the direction you're facing (targets your crosshair as if you're firing, and has the same accuracy as the original weapon). So you can only reflect damage back if you're aiming at the target shooting at you. This works out great if you're using block to close in on a Grineer or Corpus to kill in melee, but it also makes it useless as a turtle device in PVP.

 

Second, it only reflects if (and only if) you have the stamina to deal with the damage, if a Corpus shoots at you then you'll reflect it, but if a Tenno with a Vectis shoot at you and you are aiming but don't have sufficient stamina to deal with the overkill damage then the shot is simply blocked NOT reflected and your stamina depleted (but you survive).

 

This means reflection is a decent mod to bring on any normal PVE mission (which is priority 1), it scales with your own skill and it is no longer broken in PVP.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Mastikator2

[Vannell]

Currently Reflection reflects and amplifies damage upon blocking, and it perfectly reflects damage back to the attacker. This is very OP in conclaves while also being not that great in PVE, which isn't that great.

 

Not great in PvE? How is negating incoming damage and reflecting it back to the attacker not great? And as far as I remember, Reflection doesn't amplify damage reflected. The only issue is Stamina but then again, you don't stand in front of 10 enemies firing at you at the same time (i.e cover)

 

Also everything is OP when you include "Conclave" in it. And like you said, it's mainly a PvE game.

[Shehriazad]

Not great in PvE? How is negating incoming damage and reflecting it back to the attacker not great? And as far as I remember, Reflection doesn't amplify damage reflected. The only issue is Stamina but then again, you don't stand in front of 10 enemies firing at you at the same time (i.e cover)

 

Also everything is OP when you include "Conclave" in it. And like you said, it's mainly a PvE game.

Its terrible in PvE since enemies deal super low damage compared to their huge healthpools.

You have to block a heavy grineer machinegunner for like 20 seconds straight (most weapons deplete stamina long before that)

In PvP almost every reflect is a ohk though because Tenno have low health and high damage output.

And damage is already blocked without the mod...all it does is really just reflect it...and yea...in PvE it actually sucks hard.

[Nijuroku]

Just leave it be. It's fine as it is. Why tamper with something that isn't broken?

[Vannell]

Its terrible in PvE since enemies deal super low damage compared to their huge healthpools.

You have to block a heavy grineer machinegunner for like 20 seconds straight (most weapons deplete stamina long before that)

 

I don't see the problem (unless I'm really that oblivious)

 

Yeah, enemies got a lot of HP. But I'd rather not have a Reflection mod that reflects 'amplified' damage so it scales with their HP in order to kill them by draining all their HP in one go. From my point of view, this mod is here to help you chip their HP a bit before killing them with something else (Block/Slide Attack combo for example) Even if you can one-shot them blah blah (Let's not talk about this last part)

 

And I did say that Stamina was an issue for most people. Blocking depletes stamina so you don't stay liek this forever (duh)

 

And even if they deal "super low damage" as you say, they got a high fire rate...

[Mastikator2]

Its terrible in PvE since enemies deal super low damage compared to their huge healthpools.

You have to block a heavy grineer machinegunner for like 20 seconds straight (most weapons deplete stamina long before that)

In PvP almost every reflect is a ohk though because Tenno have low health and high damage output.

And damage is already blocked without the mod...all it does is really just reflect it...and yea...in PvE it actually sucks hard.

Exactly! This is where the amplification comes into play. If it like amplified the damage by some 200% back to the Grineer or Corpus then that would make it worth while on a PVE mission when you're mostly meleeing.

 

Currently I'd never bring it to a PVE mission, it doesn't make blocking significantly better against PVE while at the same time it's way OP in PVP. It's almost like it's a PVP mod.

 

Edit-

"And even if they deal "super low damage" as you say, they got a high fire rate..."

 

The AI has lots of durability against damage and very low DPS, they are basically tanks and super tanks.

The Tenno is the opposite, lots of DPS low hp. The damage amplification is to offset this so that the low AI DPS is converted into high Tenno DPS.

 

The point is that with a sufficiently high marathon and reflection mod you'd be able to kill enemies by blocking, so you can reach those flying drones and kill them by reflecting back. Like a goddamn badass Jedi!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Mastikator2

[Llyssa]

I've always had a lot of fun with this mod in PVE. I'd rather not have it nerfed because PVP players are too lazy to work around it.

[Mastikator2]

I'm asking for a buff in PVE, not nerf. You reflect even more damage, that's a buff.

[Vannell]

The point is that with a sufficiently high marathon and reflection mod you'd be able to kill enemies by blocking, so you can reach those flying drones and kill them by reflecting back.

 

Don't tell me you want that mod tweaked for that... (drones) And that wouldn't be fun to have a build made for killing enemies via Reflection :( It sounds OP

 

In any case, it's reflecting it's fair share of damage in my opinion. Also they probably don't have "a very low DPS". Eating your shield like it was cheese. Or eating through your shield and make it like a cheese? Whatever.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Vannell

[SillyCowsy]

You can life-leech reflection's reflected damage.

 

Edit: Maybe I should add my opinion.

 

In PvP I can see a problem but then again I don't care about PvP. The easiest way to 'balance' PvP is to give everyone the same ranged weapon and frame and even then people will complain about "host advantage".

 

In PvE Reflection does paltry damage upon reflection and it is merely there to be useful at some later time when warframes gain more mod slots or are forced to use 'utility' mods. Currently one can life-leech reflection's reflected damage. How useful is this? Well a hurt frame can 'turtle-up' in a corner to allow their shields and health to regen whilst they hide behind their wall of invulnerability for as long as their stamina holds out. I pray that bleed does not proc and that a toxic mob does not nip at their heels.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Laisha

[Mastikator2]

Don't tell me you want that mod tweaked for that... (drones) And that wouldn't be fun to have a build made for killing enemies via Reflection :( It sounds OP

 

In any case, it's reflecting it's fair share of damage in my opinion. Also they probably don't have "a very low DPS". Eating your shield like it was cheese. Or eating through your shield and make it like a cheese? Whatever.

It only works if you have the enemy in your crosshair, it scales with your skill. If you use skill it's better than currently, if not then it's inferior than currently. Am I idealistic to think that skill should be the primary factor in any game? Yes. Am I wrong?

[Felix_G]

Its terrible in PvE since enemies deal super low damage compared to their huge healthpools.

You have to block a heavy grineer machinegunner for like 20 seconds straight (most weapons deplete stamina long before that)

In PvP almost every reflect is a ohk though because Tenno have low health and high damage output.

And damage is already blocked without the mod...all it does is really just reflect it...and yea...in PvE it actually sucks hard.

Make that ~5 minutes when getting into T3 corrupted heavy gunners.

[Vannell]

Then again, Heavy Gunners...

[Llyssa]

I'm asking for a buff in PVE, not nerf. You reflect even more damage, that's a buff.

No, you're asking for it to only reflect from the target you're aiming at, rather than all targets attacking you. That's a nerf.

[Mastikator2]

No, you're asking for it to only reflect from the target you're aiming at, rather than all targets attacking you. That's a nerf.

You misunderstand, I'm asking to only reflect to the target you're aiming at. If two people are shooting at you, and you're aiming at one of them, both of the reflected bullets will go to the target you're aiming at.

The amount bullets that get reflected stays the same though. So that's it's very powerful (yet hardly OP imo) when you aim, but only when you aim. So it relies on your skill and gets a buff.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Mastikator2

[Vannell]

In short, a directional reflection of bullets.

[Felix_G]

You misunderstand, I'm asking to only reflect to the target you're aiming at. If two people are shooting at you, and you're aiming at one of them, both of the reflected bullets will go to the target you're aiming at.

The amount bullets that get reflected stays the same though. So that's it's very powerful (yet hardly OP imo) when you aim, but only when you aim. So it relies on your skill and gets a buff.

That sounds like it'll also help with the heavy-unit problem as well. Rather than buff the damage multiplier to a ridiculous level in order to tackle a heavy's health pool, redirect not only the heavy's shots, but also all the additional bullets of the low-form mobs around them in order to do more damage to that specific heavy (as long as your stamina can hold out against all that firepower, though). Or, as a counter, reflect all that damage to take out the lower mobs one-by-one so you can focus a melee-combo to finish off the heavy without being bothered by potshots form the peanut gallery.

[Charismo]

I've always had a lot of fun with this mod in PVE. I'd rather not have it nerfed because PVP players are too lazy to work around it.

 

Sorry man, it's a S#&$ mod in PvE. Changing something to work differently than how you want it to work isn't a nerf, either. 

 

Instead of it killing nothing, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to let it kill *something.*

[Icecream4free]

I love this stupid people wanting to nerf things that don't affect has much has warframe abilities,ogris or other stuff in pvp. Right now pvp is broken and reflection doesn't change anything barely anyone uses it so it won't affect anything if changed.