Warframe Ability Changes

[RedMasa]

+1 to the trinity is terrible now choir. To be honest, I don't feel much thought or testing went into the blessing change... the only reason I can think of is they actually have a chart at HQ where the cycle frames from OP to UP... and back again so that we use different frames. If that's the case, great Trinity change, time to start using Ash.

[Babellon]

Very nice

 

I look forward to trying out banshees  sound quake once the patch goes through. Ash sounds like it will be a very interesting rework.

 

so often in games i see people screaming nerf everything and when the devs do it ruins the enjoyment of the skills. Thank you DE for doing a genuine REWORK of skills, not simply a blanket nerf blast of powers.

[Rhundis]

Trinity:

-Blessing: Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity). This should make the use of Blessing more reactive, greatly benefiting players that pay attention and monitor party health to maximize its effectiveness.

Does this mean its % damage resisted, ie you heal 90% and gain 90% invulnerability, but take 10% of incoming damage? Also is this invulnerability per frame or just based on the amount of health Trinity heals herself for, Or is it total health restored for the entire team that the % invulnerability is based on? Or does every player get their own % invulnerability seperatly?

So many questions, sorry, but the description was very vague.

[Agua]

I just want to state that i am not mad at trinity nerf but im mad at the terribly poor design. DE could've nerfed it in hundreds of ways, instead they made it in a way that totally destroyed gameplay. Really, even if it gave no damage reduction would be better. This poor cheap mediocre design really brings my hopes down. Did you change your game designers? Because they whete crearing a great game, and trini nerf its just idiotic.

[ndig0]

plain number/effect buffs on ash is no good all those skills like ash shurikens and blade storm damage should get melee weapon based damage witch crits and statuss .. tyvm .. and so does excaliburs and other frames that use  weapon like attacks in their skills.

 

and trinity .. doesnt look like a fix.. cause it will be terrible for players that try to avoid getting hit and when they run out of luck mobs do 1-2 shot once it is over 60 min. some frames get one-shot even under 60 min mark.

[RedMasa]

Trinity is now a dead frame to me.

you can't heal reasonnably in Warframe because when you really begin to take damages it's near the time you get one shot by everything and you can't react to heal a dead man... You can't foresee the incoming damages of a 10 k damages rocket from a level 96 Bombard, what can you heal ?

 

It's not a classic MMO where your HPs are evolving because you'll keep a tiny pool of HPs that will never scale with mobs damages.

With your new blessing design you'll be able (sometimes and with luck) to heal and BTW give more resistance to already solid frames (Valkyr, Rhino, frost...) but the frail frame will always be dead on the spot... And added to that, that the time you'll monitor, the time you'll cast (even with Natural Talent), it's near impossible to react efficiently especially if you're involved yourself as a trinity in a fight.

 

I speak here for the high level gameplay (level 60+ mobs) because on the normal starmap there was and there'll be no (real) need for a Trinity.

 

Trinity will then, be more usefull where a healer is not really needed, and near useless when it's really needed.

100% this.

[ErlKoeng]

Valkyr

 

Warcry

 

- "radial ranged effect that moves with you"  like silence for banshee

 

Hysteria

Few ideas

 

- toggle power, high vampiric rate, knockdown immunity, infinite stamina, additional damage mitigation (like trinity thing), after activation start draining health with increasing rate (slow at start, faster later),  AND restricting death while Hysteria still active (like quick thinking mod).

 

- toggle power, knockdown immunity, high vampiric, infinite stamina, damage mitigation buff (as trinity), after activation damage dealt to Valky got postponed and turned into prolonged "damage over time" with 1-5% health per sec as Cap (lower damage as % of hp goes down), that postponed damage could be negated by vampiric.

 

Damage wise either leave Valky with her melee with some buff, or allow that Claw attack be affected by weapon/mods.

[Motakshi]

Quick Thinking just got a lot more viable now.

Would make getting the damage reduction to near invincibility again a lot easier. For example, Trinity Castana/Stug/Ogris's themselves in the foot to get to no HP before she casts and gains their near 99% damage reduction.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Motakshi

[Edgedemon]

Do people not understand that they can currently cancel Undertow by just moving?

 

Pick a direction and go. Move far enough and it cancels the power.

but that still takes full cost

 

That's all assuming that the enemy targeted with WoL doesn't get killed instantly by the rest of the party, and said party members stick near enough to said enemy to get the benefits of the skill, which almost never happens in my experience.

WoL heals according to the damage made to the target, is not a healing wave  like oberon's and is not based on time, so if they kill the target they get healed in the process, the only way it may fail as you foresee is, if only one teammate who has full health kills the target.

 

Togglable Skills:

This is a very interesting concept. A skill/ability can be turned on/off at will BUT the cost to keep it active drains energy until it is turned off. That is a fair trade/cost. On the other hand you MAY have killed it's purpose for almost (keyword, almost) all of the skills. The only skill this won't affect is possibly:

that would be assuming all skills switch to toggle-able, and i think they will only change skills which made you stay still for the duration.

 

take 20% damage >> restored by Blessing >> take lots of damage with only 80% damage applied >> restored by Blessing >> take lots of damage with only 20% damage applied >> cycle continues...

that would require fast recast a huge amount of energy and a really long duration or having effect timer reset on recast i doubt you can pull it off, and if you did at least it would require skill.

[Edgedemon]

Valkyr

 

Hysteria

Few ideas

 

- toggle power, high vampiric rate, knockdown immunity, infinite stamina, additional damage mitigation (like trinity thing), after activation start draining health with increasing rate (slow at start, faster later),  AND restricting death while Hysteria still active (like quick thinking mod).

i agree with  that too hysteria should give a damage reduction not total immunity

[-----iseeu2-----]

Definitely looking forward to Ash changes :D

Going to shelf Trinity for the time being. The proposed change isn't the best out there, and I'd prefer playing the game as opposed to monitoring health bars.

[ErlKoeng]

i agree with  that too hysteria should give a damage reduction not total immunity

 

Idea is that Valky in Hysteria mode should soak damage, got slowly damaged and berserk attack to stay alive.

[DoomFruit]

Goodbye, Trinity. I'll miss you :(

 

This is an incredibly crappy change. Now the Trinity player will be unable to do anything at all except watch the health bars constantly and press 4 when one of them gets low enough. There's no time to run around and kill things, because 80% damage resistance is utterly worthless against level 80 enemies.

 

Just like what happened with Frost. I'm sure that all seven Frost players on high-wave defence missions enjoy sitting on the pod and pressing 3 every 4 seconds. That nerf totally let them use their powers more.

 

EDIT: not even a brief glimpse at Well of Life, her most useless power?

Edited May 13, 2014 by DoomFruit

[ThePredicament]

Blade storm is still going to be damage based so mediocre during higher levels. It's a balance though, it's quicker which also means not having as much time to regain shields. Melee weapons should also be factored into the damage.

Blessing nerf is a bit too much depending on if they programmed it to be spammable or not. Not everyone gets damaged to whatever amount of damage equally; if it's not spammable, the duration will have to be considered. For example, a four person team, one person gets heavily damaged and blessing is used, while under its effect another teammate gets heavily damage, that person will have no damage reduction and will have to wait for the blessing duration to finish. They said the skill should based on "reactive" play but without being able to spam it, it'll be greatly hurt.

Shuriken buff is crap and bleed damage should be based on something else. Damage over time based on 500 will net butt results.

Edited May 13, 2014 by TheLocalHentai

[Vanth]

 

Trinity:

 

-Blessing:  Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity).  This should make the use of Blessing more reactive, greatly benefiting players that pay attention and monitor party health to maximize its effectiveness.

 

Trinity by design was never meant to have such an aggressive means of invincibility, and this fix should bring Blessing’s use back in line with our original intent.  Spamming it at full health will now have no benefit.

 

Ash - (coming around a few more corners, likely to follow the rest of the above changes at a later week):

 

-Shuriken: Added forced bleed proc to attacks, no change to base damage.  This should help buff the damage to Shuriken without making its direct damage over-the-top.

 

-Teleport: Enemies are now open to finishers when teleported to, giving it more aggressive utility in order to make Teleport more appealing for use in combat.

 

-Blade Storm: Now produces clones of Ash, enabling him to kill more targets quickly.  Ash will also re-attack targets if they survive the initial attack.  Added forced bleed procs to Blade Storm strikes.

 

The change to Blade Storm should also shorten the amount of time a player is stuck in Blade Storm dramatically, without a reduction in damage or looking cool.

 

 

Why Break Trinity?  Just put a hard cap on duration of Blessing, after which duration mods no longer effect it (basically making it no more powerful than it was before all this Forma and OP Nightmare/Corrupted mods stuff). Alternatively, make the invincibility part ward X amount of dmg independent of healing. The whole point of Blessing was a group heal/ward, but this limits it to single-target usefulness.

 

As for ASH... uhg, clones, really? Just make Blade Storm attack more quickly/do more dmg/possibly stagger enemies in limited range for CC effect. Or any number of better ideas posted by other people.

 

The rest, toggles and bleeds, etc, are good.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Vanth

[Megakoresh]

Well I think Nova's ultimate is OP because it slows things down in addition to marking them for death. It's either kill or CC usually on other frames, Nova has both. If you remove or reduce the slow I think it should be enough. Players will also have to be more tactical and quick with how and when they apply the ulti, as they won't be guaranteed that the enemies will stay together for ages like they are now.

 

Null Star needs a straight up buff. Period. It's just useless.

 

Worm hole is cool, no need to change it.

 

Antimatter drop is very powerful, but because it is controlled so awkwardly and is very difficult to land well, I don't think it's OP. Besides it's damage depends on the weapon, so someone with Soma will surely wipe the whole room with it, but they would do the exact same thing without it anyway, the drop just let's them do so in a different way. Alternatively if you got a Braton-MK1 or Lato, you won't do much damage with or without the drop.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Megakoresh

[ZERUELhun]

The new Trinity: blessing idea is nonsense. Really trinity are weaker with every updates (Energy vampire and link-> now blessing). Time to buff Trinity and not debuff!

[holyicon]

Hysteria

Few ideas

 

-snip-

 

i agree with  that too hysteria should give a damage reduction not total immunity

 

Idea is that Valky in Hysteria mode should soak damage, got slowly damaged and berserk attack to stay alive.

 

As somebody that frequently plays both Trinity and Valkyr I see more of an advantage in taking some damage while my Ult is up than not.

 

For one it powers Rage = Free Energy.

 

The disadvantage for Trinity is the recast time of Blessing plus the purpose of that ability to to heal others, something Rage really can't help with when you get "BUZZ BUZZ, Ability not ready!"

There's NO downside to Valkyr taking some damage while Hysteria is up, so long as you are agile enough to ripline and wall-bank around the room and claw for health back. At that point, Hysteria can be considered perpetual. A blood-powered berserker queen.

 

Unless, that's the whole Idea? (I'm on to you! lol ^^ )

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kaiser_Suoh

[Bladelaw]

Hey, great.  Trinity needed a useless ultimate power!

 

What's blessing good for?  Negating damage your shield/health couldn't otherwise handle.  You know, content where you get one/two shot?  So how will this play out?

 

It won't.  Between latency (ping) and reaction time, even if you're on top of it, your fellow tenno will be down before you can hit blessing.  So the other teammates will have no benefit, and the downed person will have no benefit, and the trinity will be out 100 energy.

 

Why would anyone even equip it?  You don't need blessing for content where you take damage more slowly; that's what Necros health balls are for, and with that comes extra loot.

 

Here's some suggestions to do instead:

 

Reduce Blessing's range from infinite, but otherwise leave it the same.  If you want blessing's benefit, you have to stay near the Trinity that cast it.

 

Remove blessing's ability to make other's invulnerable.  At least Trinity would be invulnerable to say, pick up the fallen tenno you couldn't heal.

 

Reduce blessing's cost to 25, and make it like this.  You're turning it into a quick health restore for low-level content.  Otherwise it'll be useless.

 

Make Blessing toggle-able with a significant energy drain instead of an up-front cost with long duration.  That makes the arcane helmet not worth much, but so be it.  Remove health restore and make it health regen, and give it a% damage reduction based on rank up to a maximum of 75%.

 

Otherwise, just leave it alone.  I don't see how making it entirely useless is better than it being so powerful that it's always used on harder content.

 

The other changes look possibly useful, but I'll reserve judgement until I see them more in action.  I don't think Banshee's changes will help; she probably needs a complete rework unless you're going to make stealth play more useful.  I like Volt's shield change if it's less blurry; on my screen it's like looking through glass blocks (others report no problem with this so perhaps it's my setup).  I'm not sure how the change for hydroid helps what's ultimately a pointless power but I do think Nyx's change could help.

Any of these changes would make Blessing a better power than the proposed changes. I'm a fan of the proximity suggestion myself. It would encourage groups to stay together and actually fight like a team.

 

The changes as proposed would put those who put a significant investment into Trinity in a rough spot effectively wasting a bunch of cores (maxing Narrow Minded) and who knows how many Forma. If the changes to Blessing go through then it would make it a really expensive instant heal. I'll be gearing my Trinity for minimum duration so I can cast Blessing more frequently. 

[(PSN)jenax002]

While the Trinity reworks aren't perfect, at least in my opinion, they're a step in the right direction.  No more invulnerability while I rez a partner, but as long as I can still fullheal the party instantly, I can deal with that.

 

 

I had a feeling I'd be seeing this from you, Sicon.  C'mon, buddy, if the only way you can stay alive is a bunch of invincibility frames, you're not playing right.  Also, think of it this way- now whenever my Nekros gets pasted across the walls, you can Blade Storm and actually have time to rez me afterwards.

Lol.. you will probably die while trying to full heal the party. By the time you cast blessing in higher levels, you will probably be dead. Considering the update makes it through which means while casting blessing if you have full health (as trinity), then you pretty much won't benefit from blessing and have the risk of dying (even with link activated) if 3-4 level 50 heavy gunners (T3 voids) are unloading bullets into you. Granted that the player who you are trying to heal is gonna benefit but you on the other hand will have no invincibility and will be dead right after you cast it. so, i do not know how good of a support she will be after this update. And considering the fact that now she wouldn't have an 'OOPS i am dying' ability (all her abilities are purely healing or restore purposes) like most of the warframes, she pretty has no way to save herself from difficult situations. i don't see why people would want to play her. I mean she doesn't even have decent armor or health. i think whats gonna end up happening is people will take trinity into a game and go down while casting blessing to heal one guy in the team (remember there is no invincibility now for trinity also), then the guy who gets the immunity will rush for her rescue. Lol, i don't see how she is purely healer and support warframe if she is the one who will be needing help in most of higher levels.

 

I know some of you guys gonna say that she can activate link or wait till her health goes down to certain level and then cast blessing. If you do that, then i don't see how this is a team based game anymore. It will be like having a truly support warframe only to support yourself (selfish trinity) in game. i would just put quickthinking and wait till my health goes down to 2 hp, then cast blessing to get the most amount of benefit myself while letting the other team members die.

 

Suggestion - I would at least expect some kind of invincibility (duration based) for her (only for her) while she casts blessing.

[Khranitel]

Trinity:

First thing I'll do after changes for Blessing go live would be ditching of Blessing and going full-range Link build. Because with current cast-time (even with Natural Talent) and godawful position and readability of team health indicators my team will be long dead before I could do something about it.

 

Nyx:

Such wow, much thanks for Absorb. Nyx will be even cooler than before!

But DE, what about Psychic Bolts? Give me some incentive at least to try it again.

[Tatersail]

-Shuriken: Added forced bleed proc to attacks,

 

- Added forced bleed procs to Blade Storm strikes.

 

 

"Bleed: a DoT that inflicts 35% of your weapon or power's base damage per tick (7 ticks in 6 seconds). This damage bypasses shields, and is not affected by armor or enemy resistances."

 

so bleed proc is 35% over 7 ticks? 245% bonus?

 

this means

Shuriken which deals (2*500) with bleed (2*500)*245%, will deal 3450 damage?

and Blade Storm which deals 2000 with bleed 2000*245% will deal 6900 damage to 15 targets?  (max mods base of 4,580 = 15801 damage total)

 

 

this seems like alot, when other frames ultimate's are all dealing 1000?

or is my slash math wrong?

[VoidWraith]

that would be assuming all skills switch to toggle-able, and i think they will only change skills which made you stay still for the duration.

 

I can also be for certain tactical/utility mods like Inivisibilty from Loki. We can't say for sure, but we are giving our feedbacks on the topic.

 

I don't mind togglable skills. The only concern is which skills they might turn into togglable skills.

[fatpig84]

Yes Shadow Clones.

FINALLY !