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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes

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Looked them over.  Looking forward to these updates.  Ash, after long last will be getting some much needed love, thank goodness.  Props to Scotty and everyone else that worked on this.

Since you're looking at all the 'frames, wanted to drop this thread here in case you folks at DE haven't seen it, suggested changes for Oberon.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220992-oberon/

~Tenno out.

EDIT: Please note last page contributions on respective link by Varzy.

Edited by Erelas

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Looking good, DE!

I'm a bit concerned about Ash's "Teleport will make enemies vulnerable to finisher attacks", though. Right now, my gameplay (and, I assume, that of many other Ash players) consists of cloaking up, Teleporting from enemy to enemy, and slashing up them and anything around them, easily oneshotting anything that isn't a level 30+ Grineer Heavy. Changing Teleport to enable Finishers will thus slow down our gameplay unless we prioritize only level 30+ Heavies, which seems like a general nerf-- especially since standing in one spot while surrounded by enemies is a death sentence if we don't have Smokescreen on (whereas moving and doing regular swings at the same time, cancellable with Teleport at any time we want, makes this issue easily avoidable).

Basically, I feel that this Teleport change will actually hurt Melee Ash more than it will help it.

I can see the potential in opening up Teleport targets for finishers, but could we possibly see this as an option? e.g. only making it available to Rank 3 Teleport, so players who want to play without the finisher prompt can simply wear a Rank 2 Teleport instead?

Edited by SortaRandom
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any thoughts on auto casting when not in motion or something like?

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Would be interesting to Toggle-able skills would be VERY cool... But at the same time it might render warframe ability duration mods obsolete for certain skills.

 I think duration might instead just jump into the effiecny calc on toggle skills. Either that or maybe they might affect something else (like how fast the  sound quake pulses)

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A nice update for both Volt and Trinity. I always used to have to use well of life along with energy vampire to prevent people from just killing off my siphon target, but with these changes i'll be able to stock up on loads of energy.

 

But now the days are gone of very high level content. Now showing yourself to a heavy grineer gunner at lvl 100+ for longer than a quarter of a second will mean certain death. Guess i'll have to rely on Link to keep myself alive as Trinity. Sorry everyone else, No more Blessing spam for you.

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"-Blessing:  Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity).  This should make the use of Blessing more reactive, greatly benefiting players that pay attention and monitor party health to maximize its effectiveness."

 

This is a very, very poor nerf. Trinity won't work like this. No one uses Vitality, and Blessing doesn't cast fast enough to heal reactively. Trinity was useful for keeping people alive in high level content, we're talking 40min+ Survival. Now...She's useless. You can't use a power like this to heal in reaction to people getting 1 shot by every hitscan bullet tossed their way. This needs a complete rethinking. Why couldn't you just take the easy route and make it function as a full team Iron Skin, or like how Frost's bubble now works?

Edited by VicViperion
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Well, that's all she wrote for Permabless Trinity. RIP In Peace.

 

More than made up for in Ash's buff though. And Banshee's, I think it'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

 

I do have to wonder, though, why nothing to Psychic Bolts on Nyx's buff? Can't make them easier to aim, maybe disorient the enemy, or really anything from how they are now? Shame.

 

 

 I won't be able to heal Oberon when he get harmed thoroughly. Or was that planned for? 

 

Pretty sure Oberon would just heal himself at this point. Not the best example.

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Looking good, DE!

I'm a bit concerned about Ash's "Teleport will make enemies vulnerable to finisher attacks", though. Right now, my gameplay (and, I assume, that of other Ash players) consists of cloaking up, Teleporting from enemy to enemy, and slashing up them and anything around them, easily oneshotting anything that isn't a level 30+ Grineer Heavy. Changing Teleport to enable Finishers will thus slow down our gameplay unless we prioritize only level 30+ Heavies, which seems like a general nerf-- especially since standing in one spot while surrounded by enemies is a death sentence if we don't have Smokescreen on (whereas moving and doing regular swings at the same time, cancellable with Teleport at any time we want, makes this issue easily avoidable).

I can see the potential in opening up Teleport targets for finishers, but could we possibly see this as an option? e.g. only making it available to Rank 3 Teleport, so players who want to play without the finisher prompt can simply wear a Rank 2 Teleport instead?

You want to teleport to the enemy and then NOT have the OPTION to press E to do a lot of damage? If you don't want to finish them just walk away instead... I don't understand.

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goodbye trinity.. you will be missed :'(

 

AND HELLO BANSHEE AND ASH AGAIN

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ok I know trinity needed a change but you guys don't get it, most of the time you will be dead before you can cast blessing to heal

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You want to teleport to the enemy and then NOT have the OPTION to press E to do a lot of damage? If you don't want to finish them just walk away instead... I don't understand.

finishers are weak

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You want to teleport to the enemy and then NOT have the OPTION to press E to do a lot of damage? If you don't want to finish them just walk away instead... I don't understand.

Nonono, my problem is that I can already do that. The finisher animation would just slow me down and freeze me in place.

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Wait, what does "90% immunity" mean? Blessing will give X% damage reduction based on health? 

 

Also, isn't that going to punish players for having all their health, if a Trin perform a clutch heal for one teammate that is almost dead? For example, if I heal Nekros for 99% his health, he will have a 99% damage reduction for the duration, but if I can't cast it again while it's active on Nekros (for however long it lasts), I won't be able to heal Oberon when he get harmed thoroughly. Or was that planned for? 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I feel like this is Trinity's forced early retirement, what would work better is if it applied the maximum damage reduction to everyone, and not a reduction on a case by case basis. 

Alternatively, give Blessing a cooldown period equivalent to that of its duration, mods included, or at least have it give a flat % reduction regardless of missing hp, because if only one team member is as good as dead and everyone else is full hp, well, that needs no explanation I'm sure - it makes the skill high risk low reward which is bad for a 4 key and such a situation could possibly lead to a team wipe - after all, if you're in a situation at current where you have to use blessing for one reason or another, it's obviously quite difficult. And that simply turns the ability into something far more situational than any damage ability or heal, and imo, it actually removes a lot of the clutch element.

I personally feel like this nerfbat swing at her is a nod to the noisy bunch who hate, and not the silent appreciative players (the ones who actually use her where they feel she's a strong team member, not those who complain about invincibility against level 5 mobs)

 

At the very least, revert link back to its good ol' personal invulnerability for the purpose of reviving team members so Trinity can be more than just a frame with 4 skills, and only treated as a walking energy tank.

 

And if the stated change doesn't.. change, how will power strength affect the damage mitigation, and if there is no mitigation?

Sounds like modding will be a potential mess '~'

 

And to cover my &#! from the fire: I do think Blessing is currently OD, but I feel, as a constant user that this particular way of fixing is going to trash her, for lack of a better word.

 

inb4 "u need trinity in high levels ur so noop" posts

 

EDIT: Just to add in that the typical use of blessing revolves around using well of life, energy vampire and link all at once, because the content that requires a Trinity would have you blasted off the map in the blink of an eye without her using her full rotations frequently ("Frequently" to be read as: with flawless timing), I mean you even die the split second blessing goes down a lot of the time and have to rely on the team members it effected to get YOU back up so that THEY don't die as soon as it drops. Blessing promotes more exciting endgame gameplay, more chances to play with our modded weapons. Nobody wants to be confined to Mercury OHKOing everything and being unable to play with their weapons at their full potential because you know, as soon as high level heavy looks at you you'll die.

Edited by SignumCruxis
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well now people playing trinity are going to use blessing just to heal themselves no one is going to waste energy to get nothing in return if you have full health and someone else is about to die is a waste of energy using blessing for nothing maybe if you are playing with clan members and friends but not in pubs and at high level when u get one shot by everything its gonna be useless unless the casting time is really fast other than that the rest of the changes are good 

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Trinity:
 
-Blessing:  Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity).  This should make the use of Blessing more reactive, greatly benefiting players that pay attention and monitor party health to maximize its effectiveness.
 
Bad. Firstly because this forces Trinity players to do nothing but stare at their team status in order to be reactive instead of being able to "set it and forget it" and continue playing.  Secondly because in the places where Trinity was actually necessary (late T3 gameplay, nightmare modes), damage to health racks up so fast that it becomes virtually impossible to get a Blessing off in the brief moment between a team mate taking damage and going down. And thirdly because in those same situations, anything less than about 90% damage reduction will not even be noticeable.
 
-Energy Vampire:  Will now pulse one last burst from the victim when it dies, releasing any remaining energy; this should make the power useful even when the enemy is killed prematurely.

 

Good.  Relying on team mates to be observant doesn't work. ;)

 
Banshee:
 
-Silence: Is now a radial ranged effect that moves with you. As enemies enter the radius/area, they experience a ‘sonic disturbance’ which they react to. This disturbance deafens the targets and affects their awareness.

 

Good. Maybe? I am wondering about "which they react to".  It kind of defeats the purpose of a stealth ability if the mere act of using it is incredibly unstealthy.  Wait and see I guess.
 
-Sound Quake: Players can now control when to deactivate Sound Quake, with the option to toggle it on or off.  Sound Quake will consume energy per second while active.

 

Good.

Nyx:
 
-Absorb: Players can now toggle Absorb on or off.
 
Both toggling changes to Nyx and Banshee will give players more freedom instead of being locked in place while the rest of your team runs around.  It should also add a nice element of resource management to both Warframes, rather than being stuck in place at the cost of X energy.

 

Good.

 
Volt:
 
Shield: increased size of Volt’s Shield for better team usage.

 

Good.
 
Hydroid:
 
Undertow: will now be toggleable.

 

Good. I'd be far more interested in trying to find a use for this thing if it didn't take me out of the game for a minute at a time.

 
Ash - (coming around a few more corners, likely to follow the rest of the above changes at a later week):
 
-Shuriken: Added forced bleed proc to attacks, no change to base damage.  This should help buff the damage to Shuriken without making its direct damage over-the-top.

 

Meh. Since bleed scales off initial damage, there is still the same problem of doing either way too much damage to low level targets or not enough to really affect high level targets.  A better change would be to inflict a "panic" effect that causes enemies struck to stop fighting for a couple of seconds while they react to the shuriken hit.

 
-Teleport: Enemies are now open to finishers when teleported to, giving it more aggressive utility in order to make Teleport more appealing for use in combat.

 

Good. Ish. I kind of feel like this was the intended functionality from the beginning. Concern about how finishers have serious trouble actually finishing targets.  Serious buff or rework of the Finishing Touch mod may be necessary to reward this play style.
 
-Blade Storm: Now produces clones of Ash, enabling him to kill more targets quickly.  Ash will also re-attack targets if they survive the initial attack.  Added forced bleed procs to Blade Storm strikes.
 
The change to Blade Storm should also shorten the amount of time a player is stuck in Blade Storm dramatically, without a reduction in damage or looking cool.
 

Good.


 
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Volt could use a rework for his 4 too, its just another 4-to-deal-damage-around-you with a one-time area extra-damage. In general, why are most 4s radial? we could have frontal shockwaves, explosion on cursor skills, and so much more. Something that actually involves player skill, even if its only aiming would be nice.

 

His 1 could become cooler if we would be able to channel the lighting, a bit like in Star Wars, y'know?

 

Push 1 for chain lighting, hold 1 for conal damage for 5 energy/sec, how does that sound?

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Nice changes, but I feel that makes the damage immunity part of Blessing too unreliable to be actually used.

 

Mod wise, I see Trinity players just going for a super-cheap, super-fast heal.

 

On high level play you popped Blessing pre-emptively for tough situations. But allowing ALL of your team members to get really low on health for this bonus to be reasonably high is too risky.

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Quick Thinking mod has become more viable with Trinity (post-patch)

 

Stops you at 2 HP, giving Trinity players more breathing time to Bless you along with 99% invulnerability

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*ahem*

 

AAAHHHHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAA ASH BUFFS AT LAST! 

 

These changes all sound great, I'm looking forward to trying them out.

Taking the boring aspect of trinity away and making vampire useful means that I might actually use her outside of high level survival/defence. Everyone loves free energy after all.

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This is actually a really good way to balance trin while still keeping her original power.

You can still give invincibility to other players but you have to think before casting it.

This makes me want to pick her up a lot more now and will make games with her stay interesting.

 

I have been terrified of the chance some of these skills will be nerfed into the ground and made useless or boring but this really makes things interesting. (especially the toggle on soundquake and absorb)

 

This gives me faith you won't destroy my beloved nova. (who is in need of a look at)

 

Edit: Making Trinity cast faster (without natural talent) would help make this more viable. You can see your friend drop to 100 health but by the time trinity activates blessing they will probably be dead.

Edited by cam-o-flage20
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Trinity not single handedly taking you to wave 100+ anymore = "Trinity is useless"

 

lol

 

I guess all the other frames who don't have overpowered broken skills are useless too right?

Edited by Charismo
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Hnnnngg maybe it'll finally be time to play some ash.  A guaranteed bleed proc on an AOE that can be maxed to 4,580 damage?  Yes please :O

Edited by Aggh

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Trinity:

 

-Blessing:  Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity).  This should make the use of Blessing more reactive, greatly benefiting players that pay attention and monitor party health to maximize its effectiveness.

 

Is it made so if one tenno gets to 10%HP and I cast blessing, everyone gets that 90% immunity? If not, there's a couple of caveats with this modification of blessing.

 

- variable latency between host and clients making it a bigger gamble than intended

- for every 10 trinitys, there is one good one. Also this change will uncover selfishness in people, healing themselves for max immunity leading to unneeded anger from others. Horror PUGs inc.

- after 50mins of survival you pretty much insta-die if shot, making it close to useless.

 

I'd rather propose a 50% dmg immunity that's Intensify-iable.

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