Warframe Ability Changes

[Histori]

Oh i ask my self should i ever forma any of new frames or even potatos, i got 6 forma on Trinity, 8 on Nova and gonna change ther powers so i guess i will not get any refunds cus we are in Beta right?!

It make's me sad.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Histori

[Sicon112]

T_T I'll have to say goodbye to my Ash. What kept it so competetive in the higher levels WAS the amount of time spent in Bladestorm. If that window for vital shield regeneration time is decreased, I'll have to abandon it like all the other pure damage warframes.

[StallordD]

Will Loki's switch teleport put enemies into a finisher mode as well?

[Renda]

I feel as though the proposed Blessing changes are deeply flawed.

 

 

Trinity has always been a team player and her abilities are a clear representation of that. I don't think the proposed Blessing changes encourages that specific teamwork though, as it forces Trinity to pick and choose who to reward and who to punish with an awful duration timer.

 

Lets take a look at an example:

 

We have a Rhino, Ash, Excalibur, and Trinity. Rhino, being the tanky frame that he is, is still at full health. Ash is at full health too, but Excalibur is having a little trouble, 90% of his health is missing and he needs Trinity to cast blessing. Trinity will cast a blessing that will fully heal everyone, but only Excalibur will get the brunt of all that benefit from Trinity's Blessing. Rhino, Ash, and Trinity are now totally vulnerable, without a means of protection because of Blessing's cooldown.

 

This does not synergize for good teamplay at all. You should not punish those who are at full health.

 

I propose a much similar solution that has the best of the old Blessing and the new proposed Blessing.

 

When you cast Blessing, everyone would get healed as per usual, but the damage immunity needs to scale with the amount of health that the player has at the current moment and be calculated in real time. This way, everyone would be able to enjoy the benefits of Trinity's blessing without being flat out immune to damage, but not entirely invincible either.

 

Lets see an example of this:

 

We, again, have a Rhino, Ash, Excalibur, and Trinity. Rhino and Ash are at 100% health, but Excalibur only has 50% of his health remaining and he needs Trinity to cast blessing. Trinity casts Blessing, instant heals for everyone, but none of you are immune to damage at first. Excalibur is still in a bit of trouble, and now the enemies are chewing away at his health. At 90%, he has 10% damage immunity. At 50%, he has 50% damage immunity. At 30%, he has 70% damage immunity, and so on. Everyone in the party would be able to benefit from this. Of course, to keep players from being absolutely invincible, this damage immunity has a maximum capacity on how much immunity it can give you based on your health. This should scale and update based on the player's health for the duration of Blessing. In this state, the players with full health won't get punished for not taking damage.

 

I think that this is the best of both worlds for Blessing.

 

 

 

Another suggestion would be to doctor it similar to Frost's Snow Globe. Make a short temporary invulnerability period for X amount of seconds before damage immunities.

 

TL;DR: Make Blessing's damage immunity update and scale based on real time calculations of the player's health, but place a maximum capacity for damage immunity as to not make players invincible at the lowest possible health. Make the ability work for all teammates across the board, not to have it so one benefits and the others suffer.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Renda

[MechaTails]

Banshee's tweaks are neat, the mobile Silence makes it seem like she has gadgets built into her suit for utility... a la "Shriek" from Batman Beyond, if I may sound like a broken record.

 

Toggle Soundquake... eh, it's alright. The problem before was that players just want to use SQ all willy nilly without being aware of their surroundings, so they got murdered while using it. Making it a toggle wasn't necessary, but it's a useful tweak and it should satiate those players, so no complaints. At the very least now I might not be the only Banshee seen running around in this game lol.

 

Bonus Fun Time Idea: How about giving SQ the ability to tear apart the environment to drop heavy objects onto enemies, causing massive damage and pinning them to the ground.

 

Also, secretly I'm hoping it turns out Banshee is a Corpus mole lol

 

Oh yeah, and can you guys give Banshee slightly larger hands? They seem puny xD

 

Or can you implement some kind of gloves on her? They could be some kind of amplifiers for her powers.

 

EDIT: About toggle powers, I hope this doesn't extend to all frames. It's a neat idea, but not all the frames really need it, even Banshee doesn't "need" it, but I can see how not being planted for a minute anymore is a benefit for players who refuse to adapt lol. Ember's World On Fire doesn't need a toggle for example, the frame seems designed for rampant destruction, as seems fitting for a raging fire frame, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it as is anyway.

Edited May 12, 2014 by DarkTails

[RahuHordika]

Most of the changes look really nice indeed. However for Bladestorm..... I'm not even going to sugarcoat it, and I mean no offense but, going for the clone thingy..... pretty stupid in my opinion. There are so many other ways you could have buffed it, heck you could have given it a cancel button for a starter but the clone idea.... ridiculous, just another AoE nuke power to the list.

I may be judging to soon but I'm not liking too much the sound of it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by RahuStalker

[VKhaun]

World on Fire

 

This. WoF should totally be a toggle on/off and drain power per shot! <3

[Datareaper]

Silence becoming slightly more useful, prevents enemy gunfire from alerting other enemies.  Sound Quake still offers nothing besides damage and a ministun.  Giving it a change to do a full knockdown per pulse would be nice.  Also maybe making it deal more damage and get longer range per pulse?  I dunno, its still really lackluster.

 

Ash's teleport should increase his melee attack speed, "finishers" don't do the damage they need to do to be useful, they hit for maybe less than 10% of a high level enemies health.  Not to mention the lengthy animations it has.

 

I can't stress enough that abilities should has a dual progression system, a damage component and a non damage component like buffs, debuffs or movement buffs.  Abilities that deal pure damage should have very high damage to compensate, but fall off in usefulness against high level though and mobile enemies since they cant cc them somewhat.

 

That's just my 2 cents.

[DamascusDalek]

all those changes to Ash, and they don't even add longer duration for smoke screen. How is it that a completely stealth based 'frame can't stay invisible longer then one that's not stealth based. >-> Loki.

[Aggh]

Added an explicit Nova detail.

Hnnnnggggg.  I have >300 hours played on her and I'm totally fine with this.  Bring on the nerf :|

Edited May 12, 2014 by Aggh

[PHOBIE]

TRINITY Blessing change is the most awaited change where DE shows where the design of the game is heading. I expected it to be an abysmal change, and was not disappointed. Throw this into the bin with Vauban Bastille, penetrable shields, bleeding procs on players and stamina.

 

WARFRAME should have the best support class available out of any game in existence, as well as the best damage dealers and generally the most monstrous powers in the universe of games. This was the plan. This was promised. Going back on that promise is not going to make anyone happy. You realize the League of Legends and WoW players you have on WARFRAME came because of that promise?

 

If you want to have character classes with abnormal powers your game design and ability designs must be spectacular too. If you need bigger rooms where those abilites can be used strategically, then make them. If you want teamplay to be the deciding factor in deciding the end of a mission then please promote teamplay (Short hint: Friendship Doors are not promoting teamplay. Nobody likes enforced teamplay. Encouraging teamplay for high level missions works quite differently).

Nerfing the game in an attempt to make people happy who dont even know what they are sad about is just bad form.

Perfect Teamplay should allow the best WARFRAME players to go on with a mission no questions asked. Less than perfect Teamplay should lead to mission failure. High skill vs. Low Skill. Simple? If early game some Warframes are "overpowered" just put 50% of any mods' effect on its last rank. Simple?

 

Gratulations on Toggle Powers and moving Silence on BANSHEE. Toggle Powers are going to be a huge improvement for playfun. They have a great potential when seen in conjuction with double-tapping instant powers for additional effects. Great changes on VOLT shield.

[Edgedemon]

Awesome ash rework De

 

 

But one thing DERebecca !

 

But  what about psychic bolts ? D: That was the skill that needed the most change !  Well it needs to be improved somehow, it's kind of worthless. Why does it remain untouched?

 

Psychic bolts , aren't worth  the mod slot. they just deal pitful damage and miss  A LOT.  You can't really aim with them , they just scatter like leaves in the wind. ANd then only a few manage to hit your targets....For really poor damage ,

 

it's a waste of energy , Please DE Either make it stronger or replace it  by somethign else

it doesn't have to be stronger as power gets behind too fast but it could be given a small stun, confusion or a sure radiation proc to give it some utility in exchange for power

[Keltik0ne]

The Trinity changes are pretty bad: the way it's described, you slap a blessing out to save 1 guy, you then lock out your recast timer and have a chance to lose the whole team, except of course, the guy with 90% resist.

 

She needs a full rework, and not like the way you turned the useless Valkyr, into, well, the useless Valkyr.

[VoidPunch]

Woah! I might just have to build an Ash now :D

[VKhaun]

all those changes to Ash, and they don't even add longer duration for smoke screen. How is it that a completely stealth based 'frame can't stay invisible longer then one that's not stealth based. >-> Loki.

 

You're absoutely right. He must not be a completely stealthed based frame. LOKI must be the completely stealth based frame, since he was created with longer stealth and more utility, while Ashe is being made ever more aggressive.

 

Mind blown.

 

Loki is stealth, and Ash is... Predator?

[MDRLOz]

PLEASE EXPLAIN TRINITY CHANGES IN FULL WITH EXAMPLES

TLDR: Blessing is change is unclear and possibly bad.

 

(Note: I want big trinity changes. I am just not sure these are for the best due to lack of information)

 

It is not clear what this means at all:

-Blessing:  Damage immunity is now based on the percentage of health healed (ie: healing 90% health will grant 90% immunity)

 

Guess: It still heals to full? I am guessing it does but would be nice to know.

Guess: This means when I heal a group of people the damage "Immunity" each player receives is based on the healing they personally received?

 

Question: Does "grant 90% immunity" mean they get:

1 - 90% damage reduction for duration of blessing

or

2 - 100% damage reduction for 90% of the duration of the ability.

 

Question: Can I recast the ability? (Currently you cannot recast blessing while blessing is active)

If player 1 gets to 50% hp and I cast he gets 50% immunity (whatever that means?) However player 2 was at 100% at the time of cast and got 0% immunity. However 2 seconds later he walks out in-front of a bombard and is losing a lot HP fast.

Can I recast blessing? 

or

Do I have to wait for the 1st blessing to run out?

Assumption: Lets assume I can recast blessing while a blessing is still in effect.

What crazy build am I going to end up with? Well:

Guess:Trinities will just sit at one spot on the map staring at the health bars and mashing 4 when anything reaches 50% HP to give that player a heal and a some immunity (However still unclear if its 50% duration or 50% reduction). You are about to say that energy cost will stop this. Hells No! I have unlimited medium team energy restores and those things are cheap to make. Trinity becomes stuck in a box/unreachable mob position (thank you Nova wormhole!) causing map wide heals still.  Is this not just "Whack a Mole" healing where trinities are expected to sit and stare at hp bars to guarantee optimum duration of ignoring game mechanics to rest of group?

 

Assumption: Lets assume I cannot recast Blessing. What does this mean?

Guess: Well if I cannot recast over the duration of the ability it will mean that you can ruin yourself by saving one frame and then stuck for up to 28 seconds (current maximum moded duration) before you can cast again. If, at cast, the other two frames in the squad (cell) are at 100% hp they will receive no blessing saving them. This will make blessing a very hard to use ability. It will force players into short duration builds (4 seconds) so at least they can have blessing available as a quick heal team button they can spam but everyone will just ignore the damage reduction mechanics completely.

 

Question: Do you not have records on what abilities serious Trinity players equip and use? Do you not have stats on what abilities get cast on maps? "Well of life" probably never gets cast. (Please do not post after this saying you cast it. You are not an acceptable significant sample size. I have seen one or two people "say" they use it in other threads). Why is blessing still labored into a healing based role and leaving Well of life overshadowed again. If I want players to recieve maximum blessing effects I need them to be on as low hp as possible (as that can be assumed is how it is supposed to work) WHY then would I want to put up a well of life to heal players and make them have less of a benefit from my blessing?

Edited May 12, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Spiffmeister]

Trinity:

Blessing: Changes are fine with the damage immunity, no frame should be invulnerable (except rhino apparently), but you need to decrease the cast time. More often then not people will die so quickly at high level difficultly that by the time you've actually casted they're dead.

 

Banshee:

Silence: Still a useless ability, why would I use this when I can use a mod that costs ~5 mod points and completely silences my weapon?

 

Sound Quake: Finally a toggable ability, still useless because it's damage is so low, but nice to see a different mechanic I suppose.

 

Nyx:

Absorb: Ability still doesn't make sense for Nyx. I dont see how the ablitiy to absorb and relfect bullets are related to mind control. Also still useless, does anyone who uses Nyx actually use anything other than Chaos?

 

Volt:

Shield: Good change.

 

Ash:

Good to see changes are coming soon. IMO the most useless warframe atm.

 

 

 

Has blind rage on valkyr been fixed yet? If not why isn't she on the list.

 

 

[Edgedemon]

finally toggle abilities work so much better. I would look back at a few frames for the toggle function to be added. Does this mean the toggle drain will be affected by duration still?

a max duration before cooldown seems more likely

[FREQ1989]

The Trinity change is not that great at all. It gimps her use in "late game" survival and defense mission types. I think if you were to do anything to her at all is make the range on it not infinite. Just the pure ability to heal and give invincibility from the other side of the entire level was the only thing over the top with this frame. I understand the idea to want her to not be the we all cant die frame, but this proposed change will in my opinion gimp her out of the game for good, thus killing the only true healing frame.

[Lightforger22]

Most of these changes are good but I still think ash with be underwhelming.
Unless you make shuriken instakill it will be useless compared to most weapons forcing bleed makes it do more damage per cast but it's dps will still be terrible.
Teleport is a low value skill due to how hard it is to target enemies and it leaves you open at the end of the cast to the nearby hordes of enemies.

I would like to suggest you replace this skill with more useful one.
Assassinate Ash teleports to one target and does what is in effect a single target bladestorm dealing high damage if the target lives it will be debuff with increase damage taken and a slowdown. Further more ash will stay by the target and stagger nearby foes and if it isn't cast on a target ash will just teleport a set distance. This replaces both of ash subpar skill and gives him a strong one even volt shock ability is better then this new shuriken because it can hit more enemies and has stagger for lategame.
To replace teleport slot as it is worked in ash's new 1 the will gain smokebomb which makes a cloud of smoke that boost allies damage, gives them some DR and silences their weapons. Currently ash lacks any real value to the team he is playing the will give him a decent support ability.

With that said the changes to bladestorm are nice, and the change to Trinity is decent however well of life should be looked more.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lightforger22

[locojuan]

i refrain from comenting on this changes for now. im in rage mode.
 

DE, can you please make a list with all the frames and your intentions on what role you want them to play individualy?

[Sicon112]

Ash:

Good to see changes are coming soon. IMO the most useless warframe atm.

 

Actually, Ash has BEEN a great solo warframe, between his invis and the invulterability window offerred by Bladestorm acting as the perfect escapes from even the most horrible situations. With tons of efficiency added, bladestorm becomes an effective way to survive even in the midst of an army of high level enemies. However, without that duration to protect you any more, he just became yet another clone of all the warframes with AoE damage ults, plus some invis that is inferior to Loki's. NOW he will be mostly useless. Cool looking for a while, but once you get to high level missions, just as worthless as all the other damage pure frames against the enemy stat scaling.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Sicon112

[r0ckwolf]

Great work!!! I like the directions the skills are heading, here are some changes i´d like to see in addition:

 

Excalibur:

 

Slash Dash:

Buffed base damage to 700 Slash Damage; Forced Bleed proc; Increases the Melee hit-Counter by 1 per Enemy hit.

 

Super Jump:

Changed to "Super Charge"- Energy Cost increased to 75E - Duration ~12seconds 

Increased sprint speed by 10% 

Increased jump Height (works passively now, a little toned down in total height)

Increased Staminapool by 100%

Increased Staminaregen by 75%

Channeling efficency increased by ~50%

*Excalibur is in a permanent channeling state while this Ability is active

 

note*: This will keep Super Jumps mobility usage alive and greatly inceases Excal´s overall combat/melle potential and it fits better in his Theme as a Frame based on Sword attacks!

 

Radial Javelin: Added an additional Shockwave in a small radius around Excal upon castin for 600 Blastdamage, Enemys hit by the shockwave are Ragdolled; Forced random physical Proc on the Javelins!!!

 

Nyx:

 

-Mind Controll: Target becomes immune to Player damage, but will accumulate all damage dealt during the duration and it will apply after Mind Controll ends.

-Psychic Bolts: Damage changed to Radiation; Forced Raditation proc. *note: This will fit Nyx´s overall playstyle and Role as an anti army caster much better and give her additional utility.

-Absorb: Imunnity to procs, leader effects and ancient disruptors!!!

 

Ash:

 

Shuriken: Updated throwing animations to be more NINJA!!!!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

I would love to see these implemented, espsecially Excalibur hasn´t been touched for quiet a while, none of his Skills is broken in any way but he falls flat in comparison to other Frames in later levels, "Super Charge" would change that!

 

P.S.: some of my suggestions are based on this Thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/198866-abilities-20-retune-all-the-frames-510-now-with-nova/ - great overall feedback in there, the Saryn changes stand out to me as the most awesome ones!^^

Edited May 13, 2014 by r0ckwolf

[Edgedemon]

Assumption: Lets assume I cannot recast Blessing. What does this mean?

Guess: Well if I cannot recast over the duration of the ability it will mean that you can ruin yourself by saving one frame and then stuck for up to 28 seconds (current maximum moded duration) before you can cast again. If, at cast, the other two frames in the squad (cell) are at 100% hp they will receive no blessing saving them. This will make blessing a very hard to use ability. It will force players into short duration builds (4 seconds) so at least they can have blessing available as a quick heal team button they can spam but everyone will just ignore the damage reduction mechanics completely.

so you're complaining the healer would have to focus on healing and not being a god mode switch? what kind of sorcery is this?

also i really hope it gets a wide range and not the current whole cell range so they make trinity move.

by the way if it still pushes everyone to full health it would be kinda hard to get downed that fast again, but i guess a minimum damage reduction of 30%-50% would counter both arguments.

 

 

Question: Do you not have records on what abilities serious Trinity players equip and use? Do you not have stats on what abilities get cast on maps? "Well of life" probably never gets cast. (Please do not post after this saying you cast it. You are not an acceptable significant sample size. I have seen one or two people "say" they use it in other threads). Why is blessing still labored into a healing based role and leaving Well of life overshadowed again. If I want players to be losing HP to make blessing work best (as that can be assumed is how it is supposed to work) WHY would I put up a well of life to heal players and make them have less of a benefit from my blessing?

i have trouble calling god mode fans "serious trinity players"

[Technosonic]

Love the shield buff for volt but I think that volt's 4th needs a little buff too. 

 

Right now it uses electronic things in the environment to increase damage and range but only once. 

 

I think something like letting teammates emit electricity for like 3-5 seconds if within a given range.